JREF Forum http://forums.randi.org The JREF Forum is provided by the James Randi Educational Foundation, a non-profit educational organisation whose goals include promoting critical thinking everywhere, go to http://forums.randi.org/. en Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:13:38 GMT vBulletin 60 http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/misc/rss.jpg JREF Forum http://forums.randi.org AGW Climate fraud at HADLEY! http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159942&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:29:39 GMT As far as I can see this is the first post stating the release of data.. We shall see how this... As far as I can see this is the first post stating the release of data..
We shall see how this pans out. Whether the emails turn out to be real.

Hacked at Hadley....
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/1...ed/#more-12937

Here is the story on Telegraph;

Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

If you own any shares in alternative energy companies I should start dumping them NOW. The conspiracy behind the Anthropogenic Global Warming myth (aka AGW; aka ManBearPig) has been suddenly, brutally and quite deliciously exposed after a hacker broke into the computers at the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit (aka Hadley CRU) and released 61 megabites of confidential files onto the internet. (Hat tip: Watts Up With That)

When you read some of those files – including 1079 emails and 72 documents – you realise just why the boffins at Hadley CRU might have preferred to keep them confidential. As Andrew Bolt puts it, this scandal could well be “the greatest in modern science”. These alleged emails – supposedly exchanged by some of the most prominent scientists pushing AGW theory – suggest:

Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.

One of the alleged emails has a gentle gloat over the death in 2004 of John L Daly (one of the first climate change sceptics, founder of the Still Waiting For Greenhouse site), commenting:

“In an odd way this is cheering news.”

But perhaps the most damaging revelations – the scientific equivalent of the Telegraph’s MPs’ expenses scandal – are those concerning the way Warmist scientists may variously have manipulated or suppressed evidence in order to support their cause.

Here are a few tasters. (So far, we can only refer to them as alleged emails because – though Hadley CRU’s director Phil Jones has confirmed the break-in to Ian Wishart at the Briefing Room – he has yet to fess up to any specific contents.) But if genuine, they suggest dubious practices such as:

More here...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...ming/#comments ]]> Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology brantc http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159942 <![CDATA["Vitamin supplements complicate cancer treatments"]]> http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159937&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:23:50 GMT What's the harm in using "complimentary" medicine?

Quote:
New research shows there can be problems for people who mix complementary vitamins and supplements with standard medical treatments.

[...]

The head of the Cancer Council of Australia, Professor Ian Olver, says some treatments can make chemotherapy either ineffective or more toxic.

"Both of those things can happen depending on whether it blocks the breakdown of the chemotherapy, which allows it to accumulate or in fact the opposite occurs," he said.

"So we see interactions at both of those situations where the actual dose of the chemo can be effectively reduced as well."

[...]

"Even simple things like high-dose vitamin C can interact with methotrexate and make the levels of methotrexate go up and increase the toxicity of the drug," he said.

"And then there are other natural things like St John's wort, which interacts with a whole range of other drugs that we give."

[...]
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin ]]> Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology orphia nay http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159937 So you want to be a new atheist? http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159935&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:06:02 GMT A ‘panentheist’ friend sent me this critique on New Atheism: http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2009/11/16...a-new-atheist/

Peeling through the layers of postmodernist fluff appears to reveal a steaming pile of Strawman, but the writing is so awkward I can’t be sure what the writer is actually saying.

What do you think?

Quote:
Atheism has long been described, as Julian Baggini has explained, as “by its very nature negative” and dependent “for its existence on the religious beliefs it rejects.”
The commenter seems to be framing this as a bad thing, but… well, duh. The concept of not stamp collecting is dependent on the philately it rejects.

Quote:
If the screeds, tracts, speeches and, today, documentary films demonstrate anything, it is that atheists are not bleak existentialists. They are and have been variously colored in their impulses, ranging from sweet naturalists and happy materialists to rabid idealists and polemical ideologues.
Gee whiz, atheists are a varied bunch of peoples. Who woulda thunk it?

Quote:
As Georgetown University professor John Haught wrote in his diagnosis of the New Atheists, “To know with such certitude that religion is evil, one must first have already surrendered one’s heart and mind to what is unconditionally good.”
Um, really? I don’t remember remember any of the new atheists claiming this.

Quote:
The New Atheists may wrap themselves in torn one-liners and haggard scientism, but beneath their cynical swaddle there lies a charming Perfectionism.
Huh? What is ‘scientism’? What is ‘Perfectionism’?

Quote:
For the purposes of ongoing scholarship (not only on the atheist, but also on the related subjects of the secular and the invention of religion) let us bracket the necessary complexities of that archival conversation and say that whatever came before in the annals of atheism, in the last ten years the stance has pullulated. Due, in no small part, to the oddity of its prominence, this stance has been quickly cauterized under a categorical collective.
Translation please? In fact, translation for the whole paragraph that follows please.

And the paragraph after that which gets even weirder. It mixes in strange strawmen with obvious statements, like that the New Atheists are concerned about the Koran, Jerry Falwell and the religious indoctrination of children in eductation.

Quote:
Difference is for hippies, the New Atheists say; what we need now is some sensible positivism. Don’t worry about capitalism—it is. Don’t worry about nationalism or science—they will be.
What? I’ve heard Shermer speak about economics, but I had no idea capitalism was such a popular topic amongst the New Atheists. And nationalism? When has this been brought up other than in criticisms of theocracies? And I think science is kind of a big concern for most skeptical atheists – what does ”it will be” mean in this context?

Quote:
If unimpeded, science and capitalism work with predictable clarity and world-resolving peace, the New Atheists say
Do they really?

Quote:
The New Atheists transpose their fortune onto you: you, too, can be freer than you are, if only you’ll relinquish the belief that restraint does you any material good.
I don’t think any of the New Atheists have ever characterized religion as ‘restraint’, so how can they be advocating to relinquish restraint?

This goes on and on, getting increasingly more bizarre. Not least in continuously quoting from Bill Maher as the posterboy for New Atheism.

I have to rush out of the house now, but was hoping some of you 'New Atheists' could comment on this. Am I reading this wrong? Is there some merit to the madness? ]]> Religion and Philosophy Madouc http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159935 Ptolemaic model vs. Copernican model http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159932&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:47:49 GMT Today in class the professor started talking about the world science has many misleading ideas of... Today in class the professor started talking about the world science has many misleading ideas of how science works for example, its history. He points that most theories ( E=mc2,Copernican model) revolutions in science were not motivated by the determination to discover something life changing but theories came about from scientists who just throwing theories out there (dreams, drug use, if someone wife like it, etc).

He pointed out that the Ptolemaic model is just as good as the Copernican model and that there was and there isn't no reason to pick one over the other. I know this is BS but what are some reasons or all reasons, data, evidence show that Copernican model is more reliable than the Ptolemaic model? ]]> Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology contingent http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159932 Illuminating the Lilliputian: 10 Bioscapes Photo Contest Winners Revealed http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159926&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:05:09 GMT http://www.scientificamerican.com/slideshow.cfm?id=illuminating-the-lilliputian-bioscapes-winners ... http://www.scientificamerican.com/sl...scapes-winners

Quote:
Illuminating the Lilliputian: 10 Bioscapes Photo Contest Winners Revealed

A gallery of images captured by light microscopy reveals the high art of the natural world
Pretty cool pics, enjoy! ]]> Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology shawmutt http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159926 Large Hadron Collider turns back on - Earth survives! http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159916&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:32:36 GMT Hooray! :D Europe: Proton beams circulate in Big Bang machine... Hooray! :D

Europe: Proton beams circulate in Big Bang machine

And we're all still alive - yippie! ]]> Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology MattusMaximus http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159916 Informal Survey Reveals Standard of Thinking and Character http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159905&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:56:28 GMT Informal Survey Reveals Standard of Thinking and Character Having been somewhat confounded by... Informal Survey Reveals Standard of Thinking and Character

Having been somewhat confounded by the chaotic flurry of posts in various subjects, it seemed interesting to make a first post on a subject in which I have sufficient expertise to mount cogent arguments, and to load it with nuances that can run unskilled thinkers off into the weeds.

Why would I do that ?

James Randi’s career as an illusionist sets an unambiguous precedent for such an underhanded approach to gullibilty and careless thinking, so who can complain ?
And I am actually looking for people who can really think, as distinct from parroting what they have picked up elsewhere (to spell that out, dumb people have no concept of what a tedious imposition they are).

One thing that the survey revealed was a lack of invitations to expand the reasoning behind the central hypothsis. Since those who responded to “Assumists miss the Big Picture” missed the central hypothesis, it shall here be explicitly re-stated : That the grotesque disparity between mankind’s technical intelligence and crippling philosophies requires careful examination in search of an explanation.
Instead of picking up on that important theme and developing it, the responses give the appearance of a carnival shooting gallery, in which drunken revellers aim to ridicule or dispute absolutely everything.
There were even people who could not work out the nationality of the famous country invaded 500 years ago by genocidal Christians !
Ye Gods and Little Fishes !
And this is in a moderated forum run under the auspices of an organisation that proclaims itself to be an Educational Foundation in the subject of skills in thinking.
How can anyone fail to understand that a realistic Big Picture is entirely unreachable for those who incorporate stupid assumptions in their thinking ?
Yet there were posts from individuals who took this self-evident fact as a personal insult !
An assumption that instantly sabotages productive discussion.
How much proof does it take, to get people to accept that there is something suspicious about interpersonal stupidity passing for normal in a “civilisation” that has been building supersonic aircraft for decades ?
In a forum section titled “Philosophy and Religion”, no less !
One nice fellow did, however, remark admiringly on its boldness for a first post, as if he too understood the forum to be nothing more than a nihilists’ shooting gallery.
Having not found anyone capable of discussing a new idea, no further effort will be wasted on those who have invested their consciousness in things so futile as belligerent cynicism and boundless self-importance. ]]> Religion and Philosophy Laughing Bear http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159905 ...Richard Gage destroyed by Kim Hill http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159895&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:55:03 GMT ...Kim Hill (IMHO) is one of the world best interviewers and when she is on the attack there is... ...Kim Hill (IMHO) is one of the world best interviewers and when she is on the attack there is absolutely noone better. I once heard her reduce a confident tobacco industry spokesman to a blithering idiot by simply asking the question "why?" (The spokesman was explaining new initiatives they had undertaken to make smoking less appealing to youngsters: Kim asked why, which put the spokesman on the back foot. You had to have heard it... )

Unfortunately Richard Gage has graced New Zealand with his presence: and he was on National Radio with Kim this morning. Direct links to the broadcast are below: (hopefully listenable outside of NZ!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Hill_(broadcaster)

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/pr...urday/20091121

http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/sat/sat...uction-048.mp3

Unfortunately I can't link to the some of her follow ups as she reads emails and texts from listeners: which were pretty funny! ]]> 9/11 Conspiracy Theories banquetbear http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159895 Baseball funds terrorism?? http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159893&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:17:35 GMT Why do we allow this?


"When I first learned that the New York Mets were hosting a fundraiser for the nonprofit Hebron Fund at Citi Field in support of the Israeli settlers in the occupied West Bank city of Hebron, I honestly assumed it was a joke, albeit a poor one. When I realized this was an actual, planned event, I still found it almost impossible to believe. This is because, even aside from the devastating impact of settlement expansion on the prospects for peace in the region, I have had the misfortune to see, repeatedly and at first hand, the fruits of the Hebron Fund's labors."



I repeatedly observed settlers throwing stones and clods of earth at young Palestinian girls on their way to elementary school; yelling racial epithets at Palestinians walking in the streets; pushing, kicking, and spitting on Palestinian children and (occasionally) adults who were quietly minding their own business; and hurling large stones down on Palestinian homes and residents from settlement balconies.

"I have witnessed this behavior by men and women, boys and girls, from pre-school-aged children to middle-aged adults. I was myself assaulted, on Shabbat, by a group of six teenage settlers, when I came between them and their intended victim, an elderly Palestinian woman who also happened to be the proud mother of a US Navy fighter pilot (the picture of her son standing by his plane was prominently displayed on her living room wall)."
http://uruknet.info/index.php?p=m60271&hd=&size=1&l=e ]]> Politics brantc http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159893 <![CDATA["Disappering" planes!]]> http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159890&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:43:06 GMT Truthers think that because the transponder was turned off that the planes would've "disappeared" off the radar. But everyone knows that the FAA still uses conventional radar.

Example:
Quote:
XxRymenxX (YouTube Truther)

When the "blip" goes off..that means it's not on no more! Soo,that means it's MISSING. The point is that they (the radar) were shut off! Only the planes that went missing were shutoff the radar.
Truthers truely are stupid & lazy to look up the facts themselves. Quite pitiful! ]]> 9/11 Conspiracy Theories 9/11 Chewy Defense http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159890 <![CDATA[Do you share your parents'/guardians' political beliefs?]]> http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159889&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:31:52 GMT Do your current political beliefs closely mirror the political beliefs of those who raised you, or... Do your current political beliefs closely mirror the political beliefs of those who raised you, or differ completely? Does it resemble the general political beliefs of your area or stand out as an oddity? If the former for both questions, do you acknowledge that your political beliefs may have been influenced by those who raised you and/or your area? How does that make you feel about the authenticity of your politics? ]]> Politics Undesired Walrus http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159889 SiberianWolfProSCO explains WW2 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159888&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:30:55 GMT Okay Sibwol, you've got the floor.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SiberianWolfProSCO ]]> History, Literature, and the Arts NWO Sentryman http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159888 Cat having earmites http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159887&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:28:53 GMT Hello, one of my cats (the male one, you can see him in my avatar) got earmites in one ear. Is... Hello,

one of my cats (the male one, you can see him in my avatar) got earmites in one ear. Is there anything that i can do myself, without taking him to the vet? I'm already cleaning that ear as much as i can (without poking things deep into it), but that doesn't really help.

He's a stray who decided about 1 year ago to live with me (damn package from the cat-door omitted the "Now comes with free extra cats" sticker :D). While he is all cuddly and sweet, there is no way that i can put him into a box to transport him to a vet. He _really_ don't like that. I did that once when i moved, took me about 2 hours, lot's of my blood, and afterwards he decided to pee anywhere except one of the litter-boxes for two weeks. Of course i really like to avoid having all that trouble again.

All the stuff that is available against earmites is prescription only over here, and none of the vet's around my place would give me one without showing up with the cat first. However, it is confirmed to be earmites by a vet, i took some of the dirt there and he analyzed it. A few vets here do home visits, but for a hugely overpriced extra fee. Since i'm really low on money currently, this is just a no-opt at the moment.

So, any ideas what i could do to get rid of them?

Thanks,

Chris ]]> Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology Christian Klippel http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159887 <![CDATA[Museum finds astronomer Galileo's lost body parts!]]> http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159883&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:40:57 GMT Museum finds astronomer Galileo's lost body parts!

The parts were taken from Galileo when he was reburied in 1737

Two fingers and a tooth belonging to famed astronomer Galileo Galilei have been found more than 100 years after going missing, a museum in Italy says.

A collector bought the items, lost since 1905, at auction and gave them to Florence's History of Science Museum.

The museum said it had no doubt about the authenticity of the items.

Scientists cut the parts - plus another finger and a vertebrae - from Galileo's body in 1737, almost 100 years after he died.

MORE GRISLY DETAILS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8371521.stm

:eek: :eye-poppi :cool: :jaw-dropp :D ]]> Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology Galileo http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159883 Atheist advert shows Christian children shock! horror! http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159881&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:21:47 GMT This article's really so misses the point - :rolleyes:



Quote:
Public faces of Richard Dawkins' atheism campaign were ... devout Christian children



The two children chosen to front Richard Dawkins’ latest assault on God could not look more free of the misery with which he associates religious baggage.
With the slogan “Please don’t label me. Let me grow up and choose for myself”, the two children, their hair flying and with broad grins, seem to be the perfect advertisement for the new atheism being promoted by Professor Dawkins and the British Humanist Association.
Except that they are about as far from atheism as it is possible to be. The Times can reveal that Charlotte, 8, and Ollie, 7, are from one of Britain’s most devout Christian families.
More here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle6925781.ece ]]> Religion and Philosophy Rrose Selavy http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159881