My student sent me this!

Mercutio · 23rd May 2005, 03:07 PM

A student in my "Psychology of belief in the paranormal" class sent me this article on local ghost hunters. Her email subject line: "paranormal or paranoid?" I am so happy.

The story speaks of a haunted house, and what was done to investigate...

Quote:

"Reiki specialists said I have a lot of spirits here on the property. I thought I was going insane," she said.

Other times while in the barn out back, where Kuzarian used to have an antique shop and horse stalls, she said sheâ€™d sometimes feel someone hugging her.

Kuzarian had an outdoor riding ring in the back of her house. The lights around the ring would go on and off at random times, she said.

By 1989 she was so frustrated by all the strange events, a friend referred her to Wiccans, a neo-pagan religious group with beliefs in magic and witchcraft.

"I was at a point where I couldnâ€™t do this anymore. We are Catholic and our priest gave us holy water to spread around the house. That worked for a short time but the noises came back," she said.

When Wiccans came to "cleanse" her home, they and some of her riding students were standing in the kitchen when a battery pack that was sitting on the counter began to hover in midair, she said. The battery pack then flew through the air and hit the family dog on the head. They all ran out of the house screaming.

"It seemed like a poltergeist," Kuzarian said.

The Wiccans walked around the house with lighted white candles looking for negative spirits. When the smoke from the candle became black, the Wiccans spread sage along the corners of the rooms. They also used sea salts and garlic. After that, a lot of frightening events stopped happening, she said.

Kiless · 23rd May 2005, 04:35 PM

Nice one, Mercutio. I'll have to post about my own student experience another time. Less positive, though. In fact, not positive at all.

Soapy Sam · 24th May 2005, 05:44 AM

Mercutio-You think all the people mentioned as seeing things are paranoid?
Or just the person telling it to the reporter?
Or the reporter?
Or your student?
Or you?
Or...hey, I'm only asking. Don't drag me into your fantasies.

Seriously- what's special about this story? It seems like "normal" spook stuff to me- no hard data, lots of anecdote, no apparent attempt to solve the mystery or record it, probably inaccurately described and then further distorted by the reporter.

davidsmith73 · 24th May 2005, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Mercutio-You think all the people mentioned as seeing things are paranoid?
Or just the person telling it to the reporter?
Or the reporter?
Or your student?
Or you?
Or...hey, I'm only asking. Don't drag me into your fantasies.

Seriously- what's special about this story? It seems like "normal" spook stuff to me- no hard data, lots of anecdote, no apparent attempt to solve the mystery or record it, probably inaccurately described and then further distorted by the reporter.

I agree. I don't understand what the student is trying to say to you Mercutio. Are they making a generalised statement about the nature of "paranormal" phenomena or is it simply a comment on this individual case? If the former then its obviously an extreme overgeneralisation. If the latter then, as Soapy Sam says, its a poor description of events.

Kiless · 24th May 2005, 06:48 AM

I'd say that the fact a student sent it, questioning if it was indeed 'paranormal or paranoid' is a great sign!

One situation I'm facing involves a group of students who are firmly convinced (it's become a little like the third act courtroom scene in The Crucible....) that the boarding house is haunted. Not one of the students I spoke to about these supposed 'hauntings' asked questions of others or themselves - just 'X said this, therefore it is so.' Very depressing. The group I had last year who got into a tizz about ouija boards (and thank Penn and Teller for making the one little ep about ouija boards in Bulls*** and an open minded Head of Boarding who watched it with them and encouraged a discussion) have graduated, so they weren't able to lend their more critical opinion about the so-called spooks. It's going to be another session with the Head about how to get this settled down.

The other is far sadder and more damaging - a young woman who believes, due to her family's beliefs, that she is cursed. In fact, cursed in such a way that if she has an asthma attack, her family have ordered that she does not receive medical attention but be left to 'fight off the spirits'.

She's risked both her health, her mental state and now looks like she's risking her visa to stay in the country with her efforts to placate her family who have ordered her to not only hide the symptoms of any respiratory problems (because she might be seen as 'crazy' to the eyes of Western practitioners of medicine and she's not allowed to see a psychologist) but also to regularly return back to her home town in order to get (from what has been described by her parents) regular exorcisms. She has already managed to go into some sort of shock where she was unable to move or communicate and was taken to a guardian's house pretty much totally immobile... because she was convinced of her cursed state.

And the really ironic bit? She has a report due on Thursday. On emotional abuse. The teacher for whom she's doing the report for is tearing out her hair about it - because she couldn't seem to dissuade her to try another topic and couldn't figure out if the student was trying to indirectly 'say' something about her own case.

If someone young can feel confident enough question an article and do so by sending it to a lecturer, all the best of bloody luck and cheer to them, I say. At least for some the message is getting through.

Soapy Sam · 24th May 2005, 09:34 AM

Kiless- In Oz, do you use "graduated" in the American sense- to qualify from high school?

In the UK generally "graduated" means left a university with a first (ie undergraduate) degree.

Mercutio · 24th May 2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Seriously- what's special about this story? It seems like "normal" spook stuff to me- no hard data, lots of anecdote, no apparent attempt to solve the mystery or record it, probably inaccurately described and then further distorted by the reporter.

I suppose by simply giving the subject line of my student's email, I managed to give not quite enough info.

It is roughly as Kiles suggests. This particular student was actually one of the bigger turnarounds in my class (though I can hardly take credit--she took the class after journeying from self-described "new-age nut" to critically examining her prior beliefs). I think she mostly chose the subject line because of the "para" play on words. She was more amused by the lack of any sort of skepticism applied by homeowners, visitors, reporter, or any of the people involved. In the chain of people required for the story to occur and get to me, she was the first to look at it and say "hey, wait a minute."

So, yeah, your description is accurate--it is "normal" spook stuff. What is less normal is that my student recognised it for the unreliable pap that it is.

mayday · 24th May 2005, 10:54 AM

It really irks me that these types of articles are always written with the sweeping assumption that all reiki practitioners, ghost hunters, etc. are neurotic, hysterical, have not the slightest understanding that not everything that can't be explained is the result of some type of spirit activity and are always looking for spooks behind every tree.

These types are a minority, but of course, in trying to prove a point, skeptimaniacs will always seek them out to put in the spotlight. Most people I know who "ghost hunt" and practice reiki/therapeutic touch, etc. are calm, rational people.
These articles mentioned are nothing more than a cheap Reader's Digest version of the Jerry Springer Show.

Garrette · 24th May 2005, 11:02 AM

Anecdotally, I agree, mayday.

The majority of believers I know (reiki, ghost folks, astrology believers, etc.) are not crazy neurotics. Most are successful, at least moderately, care deeply about other people, and are trying to live good lives.

Such descriptions are, however, irrelevant to the veracity of the claims.

Reiki is still bunk. Astrology is still bunk. Etc etc etc.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 24th May 2005, 11:30 AM

I see nothing in the article to suggest that the author thinks all woo-woos are nutjobs.

I'd really like to know what happened with the battery pack. That's the kind of story I just can't figure out.

~~ Paul

dann · 24th May 2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kiless
One situation I'm facing involves a group of students who are firmly convinced (it's become a little like the third act courtroom scene in The Crucible....) that the boarding house is haunted.

One of our guys http://www.mastermind.dk/, a magician, is sometimes invited to give his performance/lecture at schools with similar problems. He spends the first 30 minutes persuading everybody that he does indeed have paranormal powers like mindreading and psychic ways of influencing peoples behaviour. Then he tells them who and what he really is and explains certain techniques of manipulation. He uses the last past of the show to answer questions from the audience about alleged psychic phenomena.
I have never seen this lecture, but he comes highly recommended by the schools who have used him. Don't you have something like that in Australia, Kiless?

Jekyll · 24th May 2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
I'd really like to know what happened with the battery pack. That's the kind of story I just can't figure out.

~~ Paul

Chinese whispers.

The battery pack fell off the table and hit the dog who flew out the room, they ran after him calling his name.
The battery pack flew off the table and hit the dog who fled the room, they ran after him shouting for him.
The battery pack levitated off the table and hit the dog who fled the room, they ran after him screaming.

EHocking · 24th May 2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jekyll
Chinese whispers.

The battery pack fell off the table and hit the dog who flew out the room, they ran after him calling his name.
The battery pack flew off the table and hit the dog who fled the room, they ran after him shouting for him.
The battery pack levitated off the table and hit the dog who fled the room, they ran after him screaming.

Uh huh.

And 16 years in the building and not one photo or video of a paranormal event (or even a bat)?

Or do we have to wait for the TV show?

Kiless · 24th May 2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Kiless- In Oz, do you use "graduated" in the American sense- to qualify from high school?

In the UK generally "graduated" means left a university with a first (ie undergraduate) degree.

Interesting! I didn't know that. Graduated - from high school. We have high school graduates. They're called alumni (or 'collegians'). Or maybe we're just posh or something.

Kiless · 24th May 2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
I have never seen this lecture, but he comes highly recommended by the schools who have used him. Don't you have something like that in Australia, Kiless?

Not that I know of. That was why I was interested in Lynne Kelly's promotion of "The Skeptic's Guide to the Paranormal" (she's on the boards!). But then, the person I'd most likely have to appeal to in terms of getting a more broader discussion amongst students has already criticised my tape of Randi's Secrets of the Psychics by saying 'we don't want students thinking TOO much' (yeah... and I know what she means by 'thinking too much'.... like looking at some of the things she says on occasion, like announcing to the school that Jesus walking on water is akin to firewalking - both are apparently possible.....).

Soapy Sam · 24th May 2005, 04:05 PM

Walking on water is easy. Eskimoes do it all the time.
And wombats firewalk.

You SKeptik!

Kiless · 24th May 2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Walking on water is easy. Eskimoes do it all the time.
And wombats firewalk.

You SKeptik!

LOL! Eh, you know what I mean. You'll get me started on how entire orations are devoted to making snide jibes at the science teachers about evolution and how ridiculous she finds the notion of quantum physics.... don't mind me, I'm just fuming because the new Philosophy and Ethics course seems to heading into the realm of 'it isn't ethical unless there's a god we're all ultimately accountable to'. Guess who is on the committee....

Mercutio · 24th May 2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kiless
LOL! Eh, you know what I mean. You'll get me started on how entire orations are devoted to making snide jibes at the science teachers about evolution and how ridiculous she finds the notion of quantum physics.... don't mind me, I'm just fuming because the new Philosophy and Ethics course seems to heading into the realm of 'it isn't ethical unless there's a god we're all ultimately accountable to'. Guess who is on the committee....

Do you have a copy of Shermer's latest? You want mine? (good cause, and all...)

Kiless · 24th May 2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercutio
Do you have a copy of Shermer's latest? You want mine? (good cause, and all...)

Yep!

I've given it to our writer in the department for consideration for the new 3B unit in English, which has in its descriptors:

"Students investigate the assumptions underlying the way in which language is used and knowledge is presented in selected fields, genres, discourses and/or theoretical approaches and the attitudes, values and ideologies associated with these assumptions. They learn about developments and changes in and disputes and disagreements about the way knowledge is presented and language used both generally and within selected disciplines, vocations and/or theoretical approaches."

I'm thinking that sceptical literature could be of use in this....

Although I might get another copy for a student who I just bumped into only five minutes ago - she raised a question about Pratchett's book 'Pyramids' where there's a reference to sharpening blades by having them point towards a pyramid.

I raised it on the boards and there wasn't much response. She then found this book - "The Unexplained - An Illustrated Guide to the World's Natural and Paranormal Mysteries" by Dr Karl P.N Shuker.

"Understandably, the office's scientists were very sceptical about such a radical claim and refused to grant (Karel Drbal) a patent until further test had been completed to their satisfaction. These took ten years, but were evidently successful, because in 1959, Drbal duly received his patent, registered as No. 91304, and a factory in his homeland has been churning out cardboard (now Styrofoam) pyramids for the resharpening of razor blades ever since!"

Yes, it's that sort of book. She's convinced. Because 'It has a patent!'

One passage, about milk drinking statues, has this to say:
"As for the scientists, they took the view that the explanation was likely to be a mechanism functioning in the reverse manner to that offered as a solution to weeping statues..... needless to say, however, absorption by capillary action could not account for the enormous quantities of milk supposedly drunk by some statues. Exaggeration, or hallucination? Nor, of course, can it explain milk-drinking by metal statues."

Big, glossy, lots of nice photos; it appears to have the gamut from gnomes driving bubble cars to booya stones ('perhaps a real-life Indiana Jones is needed, to rediscover not only their hideaway but also the key to their formidably potent power!')

Demon Haunted World. Stat.

23rd May 2005, 03:07 PM	#1
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,325	My student sent me this! A student in my "Psychology of belief in the paranormal" class sent me this article on local ghost hunters. Her email subject line: "paranormal or paranoid?" I am so happy. The story speaks of a haunted house, and what was done to investigate... Quote: "Reiki specialists said I have a lot of spirits here on the property. I thought I was going insane," she said. Other times while in the barn out back, where Kuzarian used to have an antique shop and horse stalls, she said sheâ€™d sometimes feel someone hugging her. Kuzarian had an outdoor riding ring in the back of her house. The lights around the ring would go on and off at random times, she said. By 1989 she was so frustrated by all the strange events, a friend referred her to Wiccans, a neo-pagan religious group with beliefs in magic and witchcraft. "I was at a point where I couldnâ€™t do this anymore. We are Catholic and our priest gave us holy water to spread around the house. That worked for a short time but the noises came back," she said. When Wiccans came to "cleanse" her home, they and some of her riding students were standing in the kitchen when a battery pack that was sitting on the counter began to hover in midair, she said. The battery pack then flew through the air and hit the family dog on the head. They all ran out of the house screaming. "It seemed like a poltergeist," Kuzarian said. The Wiccans walked around the house with lighted white candles looking for negative spirits. When the smoke from the candle became black, the Wiccans spread sage along the corners of the rooms. They also used sea salts and garlic. After that, a lot of frightening events stopped happening, she said.
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

23rd May 2005, 04:35 PM	#2
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103	Nice one, Mercutio. I'll have to post about my own student experience another time. Less positive, though. In fact, not positive at all.
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103

24th May 2005, 05:44 AM	#3
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Mercutio-You think all the people mentioned as seeing things are paranoid? Or just the person telling it to the reporter? Or the reporter? Or your student? Or you? Or...hey, I'm only asking. Don't drag me into your fantasies. Seriously- what's special about this story? It seems like "normal" spook stuff to me- no hard data, lots of anecdote, no apparent attempt to solve the mystery or record it, probably inaccurately described and then further distorted by the reporter.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

24th May 2005, 06:48 AM	#5
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103	Well, it's a start.... I'd say that the fact a student sent it, questioning if it was indeed 'paranormal or paranoid' is a great sign! One situation I'm facing involves a group of students who are firmly convinced (it's become a little like the third act courtroom scene in The Crucible....) that the boarding house is haunted. Not one of the students I spoke to about these supposed 'hauntings' asked questions of others or themselves - just 'X said this, therefore it is so.' Very depressing. The group I had last year who got into a tizz about ouija boards (and thank Penn and Teller for making the one little ep about ouija boards in Bulls*** and an open minded Head of Boarding who watched it with them and encouraged a discussion) have graduated, so they weren't able to lend their more critical opinion about the so-called spooks. It's going to be another session with the Head about how to get this settled down. The other is far sadder and more damaging - a young woman who believes, due to her family's beliefs, that she is cursed. In fact, cursed in such a way that if she has an asthma attack, her family have ordered that she does not receive medical attention but be left to 'fight off the spirits'. She's risked both her health, her mental state and now looks like she's risking her visa to stay in the country with her efforts to placate her family who have ordered her to not only hide the symptoms of any respiratory problems (because she might be seen as 'crazy' to the eyes of Western practitioners of medicine and she's not allowed to see a psychologist) but also to regularly return back to her home town in order to get (from what has been described by her parents) regular exorcisms. She has already managed to go into some sort of shock where she was unable to move or communicate and was taken to a guardian's house pretty much totally immobile... because she was convinced of her cursed state. And the really ironic bit? She has a report due on Thursday. On emotional abuse. The teacher for whom she's doing the report for is tearing out her hair about it - because she couldn't seem to dissuade her to try another topic and couldn't figure out if the student was trying to indirectly 'say' something about her own case. If someone young can feel confident enough question an article and do so by sending it to a lecturer, all the best of bloody luck and cheer to them, I say. At least for some the message is getting through.
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103

24th May 2005, 09:34 AM	#6
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Kiless- In Oz, do you use "graduated" in the American sense- to qualify from high school? In the UK generally "graduated" means left a university with a first (ie undergraduate) degree.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

24th May 2005, 06:06 AM	#4
davidsmith73 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,697	Quote: Originally posted by Soapy Sam Mercutio-You think all the people mentioned as seeing things are paranoid? Or just the person telling it to the reporter? Or the reporter? Or your student? Or you? Or...hey, I'm only asking. Don't drag me into your fantasies. Seriously- what's special about this story? It seems like "normal" spook stuff to me- no hard data, lots of anecdote, no apparent attempt to solve the mystery or record it, probably inaccurately described and then further distorted by the reporter. I agree. I don't understand what the student is trying to say to you Mercutio. Are they making a generalised statement about the nature of "paranormal" phenomena or is it simply a comment on this individual case? If the former then its obviously an extreme overgeneralisation. If the latter then, as Soapy Sam says, its a poor description of events.

24th May 2005, 10:25 AM	#7
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,325	Quote: Originally posted by Soapy Sam Seriously- what's special about this story? It seems like "normal" spook stuff to me- no hard data, lots of anecdote, no apparent attempt to solve the mystery or record it, probably inaccurately described and then further distorted by the reporter. I suppose by simply giving the subject line of my student's email, I managed to give not quite enough info. It is roughly as Kiles suggests. This particular student was actually one of the bigger turnarounds in my class (though I can hardly take credit--she took the class after journeying from self-described "new-age nut" to critically examining her prior beliefs). I think she mostly chose the subject line because of the "para" play on words. She was more amused by the lack of any sort of skepticism applied by homeowners, visitors, reporter, or any of the people involved. In the chain of people required for the story to occur and get to me, she was the first to look at it and say "hey, wait a minute." So, yeah, your description is accurate--it is "normal" spook stuff. What is less normal is that my student recognised it for the unreliable pap that it is.
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

24th May 2005, 10:54 AM	#8
mayday Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,800	It really irks me that these types of articles are always written with the sweeping assumption that all reiki practitioners, ghost hunters, etc. are neurotic, hysterical, have not the slightest understanding that not everything that can't be explained is the result of some type of spirit activity and are always looking for spooks behind every tree. These types are a minority, but of course, in trying to prove a point, skeptimaniacs will always seek them out to put in the spotlight. Most people I know who "ghost hunt" and practice reiki/therapeutic touch, etc. are calm, rational people. These articles mentioned are nothing more than a cheap Reader's Digest version of the Jerry Springer Show.
mayday Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,800

24th May 2005, 11:02 AM	#9
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	Anecdotally, I agree, mayday. The majority of believers I know (reiki, ghost folks, astrology believers, etc.) are not crazy neurotics. Most are successful, at least moderately, care deeply about other people, and are trying to live good lives. Such descriptions are, however, irrelevant to the veracity of the claims. Reiki is still bunk. Astrology is still bunk. Etc etc etc.

24th May 2005, 11:30 AM	#10
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 18,589	I see nothing in the article to suggest that the author thinks all woo-woos are nutjobs. I'd really like to know what happened with the battery pack. That's the kind of story I just can't figure out. ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz RIP Mr. Skinny

24th May 2005, 11:44 AM	#11
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Re: Well, it's a start.... Quote: Originally posted by Kiless One situation I'm facing involves a group of students who are firmly convinced (it's become a little like the third act courtroom scene in The Crucible....) that the boarding house is haunted. One of our guys http://www.mastermind.dk/, a magician, is sometimes invited to give his performance/lecture at schools with similar problems. He spends the first 30 minutes persuading everybody that he does indeed have paranormal powers like mindreading and psychic ways of influencing peoples behaviour. Then he tells them who and what he really is and explains certain techniques of manipulation. He uses the last past of the show to answer questions from the audience about alleged psychic phenomena. I have never seen this lecture, but he comes highly recommended by the schools who have used him. Don't you have something like that in Australia, Kiless?
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

24th May 2005, 12:16 PM	#12
Jekyll Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The other other place Posts: 1,589	Quote: Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos I'd really like to know what happened with the battery pack. That's the kind of story I just can't figure out. ~~ Paul Chinese whispers. The battery pack fell off the table and hit the dog who flew out the room, they ran after him calling his name. The battery pack flew off the table and hit the dog who fled the room, they ran after him shouting for him. The battery pack levitated off the table and hit the dog who fled the room, they ran after him screaming.

24th May 2005, 12:26 PM	#13
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,409	Quote: Originally posted by Jekyll Chinese whispers. The battery pack fell off the table and hit the dog who flew out the room, they ran after him calling his name. The battery pack flew off the table and hit the dog who fled the room, they ran after him shouting for him. The battery pack levitated off the table and hit the dog who fled the room, they ran after him screaming. Uh huh. And 16 years in the building and not one photo or video of a paranormal event (or even a bat)? Or do we have to wait for the TV show?
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,409	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke Prayer: "a sophisticated way of pleading with thunderstorms." T.Pratchett "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite Forum Birdwatching Webpage

24th May 2005, 01:23 PM	#14
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103	Quote: Originally posted by Soapy Sam Kiless- In Oz, do you use "graduated" in the American sense- to qualify from high school? In the UK generally "graduated" means left a university with a first (ie undergraduate) degree. Interesting! I didn't know that. Graduated - from high school. We have high school graduates. They're called alumni (or 'collegians'). Or maybe we're just posh or something.
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103

24th May 2005, 01:28 PM	#15
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103	Re: Re: Well, it's a start.... Quote: Originally posted by dann I have never seen this lecture, but he comes highly recommended by the schools who have used him. Don't you have something like that in Australia, Kiless? Not that I know of. That was why I was interested in Lynne Kelly's promotion of "The Skeptic's Guide to the Paranormal" (she's on the boards!). But then, the person I'd most likely have to appeal to in terms of getting a more broader discussion amongst students has already criticised my tape of Randi's Secrets of the Psychics by saying 'we don't want students thinking TOO much' (yeah... and I know what she means by 'thinking too much'.... like looking at some of the things she says on occasion, like announcing to the school that Jesus walking on water is akin to firewalking - both are apparently possible.....).
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103

24th May 2005, 04:05 PM	#16
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Walking on water is easy. Eskimoes do it all the time. And wombats firewalk. You SKeptik!
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

24th May 2005, 06:00 PM	#17
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103	Quote: Originally posted by Soapy Sam Walking on water is easy. Eskimoes do it all the time. And wombats firewalk. You SKeptik! LOL! Eh, you know what I mean. You'll get me started on how entire orations are devoted to making snide jibes at the science teachers about evolution and how ridiculous she finds the notion of quantum physics.... don't mind me, I'm just fuming because the new Philosophy and Ethics course seems to heading into the realm of 'it isn't ethical unless there's a god we're all ultimately accountable to'. Guess who is on the committee....
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103

24th May 2005, 08:25 PM	#18
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,325	Quote: Originally posted by Kiless LOL! Eh, you know what I mean. You'll get me started on how entire orations are devoted to making snide jibes at the science teachers about evolution and how ridiculous she finds the notion of quantum physics.... don't mind me, I'm just fuming because the new Philosophy and Ethics course seems to heading into the realm of 'it isn't ethical unless there's a god we're all ultimately accountable to'. Guess who is on the committee.... Do you have a copy of Shermer's latest? You want mine? (good cause, and all...)
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

24th May 2005, 09:10 PM	#19
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103	Quote: Originally posted by Mercutio Do you have a copy of Shermer's latest? You want mine? (good cause, and all...) Yep! I've given it to our writer in the department for consideration for the new 3B unit in English, which has in its descriptors: "Students investigate the assumptions underlying the way in which language is used and knowledge is presented in selected fields, genres, discourses and/or theoretical approaches and the attitudes, values and ideologies associated with these assumptions. They learn about developments and changes in and disputes and disagreements about the way knowledge is presented and language used both generally and within selected disciplines, vocations and/or theoretical approaches." I'm thinking that sceptical literature could be of use in this.... Although I might get another copy for a student who I just bumped into only five minutes ago - she raised a question about Pratchett's book 'Pyramids' where there's a reference to sharpening blades by having them point towards a pyramid. I raised it on the boards and there wasn't much response. She then found this book - "The Unexplained - An Illustrated Guide to the World's Natural and Paranormal Mysteries" by Dr Karl P.N Shuker. "Understandably, the office's scientists were very sceptical about such a radical claim and refused to grant (Karel Drbal) a patent until further test had been completed to their satisfaction. These took ten years, but were evidently successful, because in 1959, Drbal duly received his patent, registered as No. 91304, and a factory in his homeland has been churning out cardboard (now Styrofoam) pyramids for the resharpening of razor blades ever since!" Yes, it's that sort of book. She's convinced. Because 'It has a patent!' One passage, about milk drinking statues, has this to say: "As for the scientists, they took the view that the explanation was likely to be a mechanism functioning in the reverse manner to that offered as a solution to weeping statues..... needless to say, however, absorption by capillary action could not account for the enormous quantities of milk supposedly drunk by some statues. Exaggeration, or hallucination? Nor, of course, can it explain milk-drinking by metal statues." Big, glossy, lots of nice photos; it appears to have the gamut from gnomes driving bubble cars to booya stones ('perhaps a real-life Indiana Jones is needed, to rediscover not only their hideaway but also the key to their formidably potent power!') Demon Haunted World. Stat.
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103