Hamas rejects attacks on civilians in buses

richardm · 8th July 2005, 06:02 AM

Quote:

The Palestinian Islamist resistance group Hamas condemned the London bombings.

"Targeting civilians in their transport means and lives is denounced and rejected," Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy chief of the group's political bureau, said.

Eh? Does this mean that they're not going to sanction any more bombs on buses in Israel? Or are Israelis not civilians? Or does the political bureau pretend to have nothing to do with the violence, a la Sinn Fein?

From here

Cleon · 8th July 2005, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm
Eh? Does this mean that they're not going to sanction any more bombs on buses in Israel? Or are Israelis not civilians? Or does the political bureau pretend to have nothing to do with the violence, a la Sinn Fein?

From here

One of the rationales Hamas has used to attack Israeli buses is that, since Israel has a universal draft and reserves, everyone is a soldier or potential combatant. Since Britain lacks said universal draft, British civilians are just civilians.

Hey, I didn't say it made sense, but it's one of the rationales.

Manny · 8th July 2005, 06:15 AM

Unfortunately, Cleon got it in one. http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=16952

Psi Baba · 8th July 2005, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Arab world condemns London blasts

zenith-nadir · 8th July 2005, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon
One of the rationales Hamas has used to attack Israeli buses is that, since Israel has a universal draft and reserves, everyone is a soldier or potential combatant. Since Britain lacks said universal draft, British civilians are just civilians.

Hey, I didn't say it made sense, but it's one of the rationales.

Any jew, whether they be newborn, infant, child, adolescent or adult is a "potential combatant" to Hamas.

Aug 31, 2004 - Hamas suicide bombers blows up two Beersheba city buses - 16 people were murdered and 100 wounded.
29 January 2004 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #19 bus in Jerusalem - 11 people were murdered and 44 were wounded.
19 August 2003 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #2 bus in Jerusalem - 23 people were murdered and over 130 were wounded.
11 June 2003 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #14A bus in Jerusalem - 11 people were murdered and over 100 were wounded.
18 May 2003 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #6 bus in Jerusalem - 7 people were murdered and 20 wounded.
5 March 2003 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #37 bus in Haifa - 17 people were murdered and 53 were wounded.
21 November 2002 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #20 bus in Jerusalem - 11 people were murdered and 50 were wounded.
4 August 2002 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #361 bus at Meron junction - 9 people were murdered and 50 were wounded.
18 June 2002 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #32A bus in Jerusalem - 19 people were murdered and 74 were wounded.
2 December 2001 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #16 bus in Haifa - 15 people were murdered and 40 were wounded.

Quote:

Israel protests European Union contacts with Hamas - 6/16/2005

JERUSALEM (AP) â€” Israel on Thursday protested rising European contacts with Hamas, urging the EU to keep the group on its list of terrorist organizations and warning that talking to the Islamic militants undermines Palestinian moderates.

"Every 10 days to two weeks we have at least one meeting with a European diplomat," said Mohammed Ghazal, a senior Hamas representative in the West Bank.

Ghazal said most of the contacts in the West Bank and Gaza were with lower level EU diplomats, but that higher level contacts between the EU and Hamas were taking place abroad. He did not elaborate.

In Brussels, EU official Elena Peresso said the EU "was not aware of any contacts" and has reached no collective decision on whether to change its policy toward Hamas.

Added Bob Hiensch, Holland's ambassador to Israel: "It's very clear that we will not have a political dialogue with Hamas as long as they do not denounce all acts of violence and explicitly recognize Israel's right to exist."

He did not rule out, however, that member states may be meeting on their own with Hamas but said "it's not a European decision." Hiensch said the EU was still deciding what to do about contacts with Hamas-backed mayors in towns where Europeans have current aid projects.

Some, especially in the EU, have argued that talking to Hamas could help curb its extremist tendencies. Others say the contact will only prop up violent hard-liners.

What a world....

Cleon · 8th July 2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Any jew, whether they be newborn, infant, child, adolescent or adult is a "potential combatant" to Hamas.

Not Jew, Israeli. There's a difference.

zenith-nadir · 8th July 2005, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon
Not Jew, Israeli. There's a difference.

You are 100% wrong and I shall not get into a JREF pissing contest over your semantic interpretations. Therefore i shall post direct quotes from the Covenant of Hamas so there is ABSOLUTELY no confusion.

Quote:

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement Hamas

This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.

Article Fifteen:

The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.

They said Jews Cleon not Israelis.

Cleon · 8th July 2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
You are 100% wrong and I shall not get into a JREF pissing contest over your semantic interpretations.

Whatever you say, ZN. It's good to know you have such an open mind, willing to learn.

zenith-nadir · 8th July 2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon
Whatever you say, ZN. It's good to know you have such an open mind, willing to learn.

You refuse to admit that you are misrepresenting the facts therefore I let the Hamas Covenant speak for Hamas and reject your intepretations.

Have a nice day.

Cleon · 8th July 2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
You refuse to admit that you are misrepresenting the facts therefore I let the Hamas Covenant speak for Hamas and reject your intepretations.

Whatever you say, ZN.

hgc · 8th July 2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon
Whatever you say, ZN.

Twice in a row, you've ducked. I'm willing to learn. Educate me.

Cleon · 8th July 2005, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hgc
Twice in a row, you've ducked. I'm willing to learn. Educate me.

"I shall not get into a JREF pissing contest over your semantic interpretations" - That's not me ducking, that's ZN deciding he won't listen to anything I have to say. What, then, is the point?

As far as Hamas goes, ZN highlighted the relevant bit himself: "the Jews' usurpation of Palestine." Who exactly are the "Jews usurping Palestine?" The Jewish community in Clearfield, Pennsylvania? No...They're talking about Israelis. It's called "context." Every time in Hamas' charter they refer to "Jews," it's rather obvious they mean "Israelis."

Add that to the fact that referring to Israelis as "the Jews" in the Occupied Territories is pretty common. Not out of maliciousness, really, it's just that for the vast majority of these people their only contact with Jews has been Israel (particularly the IDF).

If that's not enough, check out Hamas' wikipedia entry. Notice how many times Hamas has specifically Jews outside of Israel.

Now, then, having said my piece, I will leave this thread. You and ZN may feel free to decide that I'm:

<ul>[*]Ducking[*]Quitting[*]Scared[*]Unable/unwilling to justify what I've said[/list]
I honestly don't care.

Mycroft · 8th July 2005, 02:43 PM

Cleon,

Hamas doesn't make the same distinction you make on their behalf. Further, it has to be just about the most brutal and racist organization on Earth. Why would you make appologies for it?

Darat · 8th July 2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm
Eh? Does this mean that they're not going to sanction any more bombs on buses in Israel? Or are Israelis not civilians? Or does the political bureau pretend to have nothing to do with the violence, a la Sinn Fein?

From here

Itâ€™s the worse kind of hypocrisy I can imagine. It can be nothing but part of an insidious PR campaign.

I believe that what they are trying to do is portray to the â€œwestern worldâ€ that they are something other then ruthless indiscriminate murderers of innocents by saying the bombings in London are somehow different to the attacks they perpetrate against innocent people.

They arenâ€™t.

Hamas are exactly like the people behind the terrorist attacks in London yesterday - despicable, vile murderers.

I was going to write more but I genuinely feel too disgusted to even put down any further thoughts at the moment.

renata · 8th July 2005, 03:06 PM

It is not merely Israelis that die in these kinds of attacks. Many attacks involve, and even seem to target visitors. I recall that being justified as well- visitors give legitimacy and financial support to the Israelis. Similarly, I recall (although I do not have sources at this time) that Americans on 9/11 were fair game as they pay taxes and support an administration that supports Israel. Given that logic, I doubt there is a single person on the planet that is a "civilian". Lets see...Arab states that supply oil trade with US that supports Israel. Osama Bin Laden gives justification for war on terrorism that helps Israel, and so forth.

zenith-nadir · 8th July 2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mycroft
Why would you make appologies for it?

Because for some bizzare reason it seems to be easier for Cleon to play semantic games with Hamas's definition of the word "jew" than for him to admit he is mistaken in this instance.

Art Vandelay · 8th July 2005, 08:43 PM

According to manny's link:

Quote:

That's why Israelis are still pursuing the Germans who took part in the Holocaust, though some of these people are in their 80s. They are still considered soldiers.

My understanding that Isreal considers them criminals, not soldiers. An important distinction.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon
One of the rationales Hamas has used to attack Israeli buses is that, since Israel has a universal draft and reserves, everyone is a soldier or potential combatant. Since Britain lacks said universal draft, British civilians are just civilians.

Well, then. I guess Israel has never killed any civilians, either.

Quote:

Not Jew, Israeli. There's a difference.

Quote:

Every time in Hamas' charter they refer to "Jews," it's rather obvious they mean "Israelis."

So... Hamas distinguishes between Jews and Israelis... but substitutes the word "Jew" for "Israeli" just for fun?

If every Jew is a potential Israeli, and every Israeli is a potential soldier, is not every Jew a potential soldier?

Quote:

I honestly don't care.

Yes, you do.

peptoabysmal · 8th July 2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm
Eh? Does this mean that they're not going to sanction any more bombs on buses in Israel? Or are Israelis not civilians? Or does the political bureau pretend to have nothing to do with the violence, a la Sinn Fein?

From here

I think you missed the part where they place the blame squarely on:

Quote:

"If there is some party that should be held accountable for killing the innocent and spreading terror and chaos among the British people, it should be the government of Tony Blair," al-Tamimi told Aljazeera.

8th July 2005, 06:02 AM	#1
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Hamas rejects attacks on civilians in buses Quote: The Palestinian Islamist resistance group Hamas condemned the London bombings. "Targeting civilians in their transport means and lives is denounced and rejected," Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy chief of the group's political bureau, said. Eh? Does this mean that they're not going to sanction any more bombs on buses in Israel? Or are Israelis not civilians? Or does the political bureau pretend to have nothing to do with the violence, a la Sinn Fein? From here
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

8th July 2005, 06:11 AM	#2
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,536	Re: Hamas rejects attacks on civilians in buses Quote: Originally posted by richardm Eh? Does this mean that they're not going to sanction any more bombs on buses in Israel? Or are Israelis not civilians? Or does the political bureau pretend to have nothing to do with the violence, a la Sinn Fein? From here One of the rationales Hamas has used to attack Israeli buses is that, since Israel has a universal draft and reserves, everyone is a soldier or potential combatant. Since Britain lacks said universal draft, British civilians are just civilians. Hey, I didn't say it made sense, but it's one of the rationales.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

8th July 2005, 06:15 AM	#4
Psi Baba Homo Skepticalis Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Occupying my barstool Posts: 3,183	Quote: Arab world condemns London blasts
	__________________ Save Caribbean Rum! (seriously)

8th July 2005, 12:51 PM	#5
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Quote: Originally posted by Cleon One of the rationales Hamas has used to attack Israeli buses is that, since Israel has a universal draft and reserves, everyone is a soldier or potential combatant. Since Britain lacks said universal draft, British civilians are just civilians. Hey, I didn't say it made sense, but it's one of the rationales. Any jew, whether they be newborn, infant, child, adolescent or adult is a "potential combatant" to Hamas. Aug 31, 2004 - Hamas suicide bombers blows up two Beersheba city buses - 16 people were murdered and 100 wounded. 29 January 2004 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #19 bus in Jerusalem - 11 people were murdered and 44 were wounded. 19 August 2003 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #2 bus in Jerusalem - 23 people were murdered and over 130 were wounded. 11 June 2003 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #14A bus in Jerusalem - 11 people were murdered and over 100 were wounded. 18 May 2003 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #6 bus in Jerusalem - 7 people were murdered and 20 wounded. 5 March 2003 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #37 bus in Haifa - 17 people were murdered and 53 were wounded. 21 November 2002 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #20 bus in Jerusalem - 11 people were murdered and 50 were wounded. 4 August 2002 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #361 bus at Meron junction - 9 people were murdered and 50 were wounded. 18 June 2002 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #32A bus in Jerusalem - 19 people were murdered and 74 were wounded. 2 December 2001 - Hamas suicide bomber blows up #16 bus in Haifa - 15 people were murdered and 40 were wounded. Quote: Israel protests European Union contacts with Hamas - 6/16/2005 JERUSALEM (AP) â€” Israel on Thursday protested rising European contacts with Hamas, urging the EU to keep the group on its list of terrorist organizations and warning that talking to the Islamic militants undermines Palestinian moderates. "Every 10 days to two weeks we have at least one meeting with a European diplomat," said Mohammed Ghazal, a senior Hamas representative in the West Bank. Ghazal said most of the contacts in the West Bank and Gaza were with lower level EU diplomats, but that higher level contacts between the EU and Hamas were taking place abroad. He did not elaborate. In Brussels, EU official Elena Peresso said the EU "was not aware of any contacts" and has reached no collective decision on whether to change its policy toward Hamas. Added Bob Hiensch, Holland's ambassador to Israel: "It's very clear that we will not have a political dialogue with Hamas as long as they do not denounce all acts of violence and explicitly recognize Israel's right to exist." He did not rule out, however, that member states may be meeting on their own with Hamas but said "it's not a European decision." Hiensch said the EU was still deciding what to do about contacts with Hamas-backed mayors in towns where Europeans have current aid projects. Some, especially in the EU, have argued that talking to Hamas could help curb its extremist tendencies. Others say the contact will only prop up violent hard-liners. What a world....
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

8th July 2005, 01:16 PM	#7
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Quote: Originally posted by Cleon Not Jew, Israeli. There's a difference. You are 100% wrong and I shall not get into a JREF pissing contest over your semantic interpretations. Therefore i shall post direct quotes from the Covenant of Hamas so there is ABSOLUTELY no confusion. Quote: The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement Hamas This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised. Article Fifteen: The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters. They said Jews Cleon not Israelis.
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

8th July 2005, 06:15 AM	#3
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295	Unfortunately, Cleon got it in one. http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=16952
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295

8th July 2005, 01:07 PM	#6
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,536	Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir Any jew, whether they be newborn, infant, child, adolescent or adult is a "potential combatant" to Hamas. Not Jew, Israeli. There's a difference.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

8th July 2005, 01:17 PM	#8
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,536	Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir You are 100% wrong and I shall not get into a JREF pissing contest over your semantic interpretations. Whatever you say, ZN. It's good to know you have such an open mind, willing to learn.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

8th July 2005, 01:23 PM	#9
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Quote: Originally posted by Cleon Whatever you say, ZN. It's good to know you have such an open mind, willing to learn. You refuse to admit that you are misrepresenting the facts therefore I let the Hamas Covenant speak for Hamas and reject your intepretations. Have a nice day.
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

8th July 2005, 01:51 PM	#10
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,536	Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir You refuse to admit that you are misrepresenting the facts therefore I let the Hamas Covenant speak for Hamas and reject your intepretations. Whatever you say, ZN.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

8th July 2005, 02:01 PM	#11
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,028	Quote: Originally posted by Cleon Whatever you say, ZN. Twice in a row, you've ducked. I'm willing to learn. Educate me.
	__________________ Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse assail him and wail him with monster truck force. - Cake, The Distance Was there a second singer on the grassy Knowles? - Stephen Colbert

8th July 2005, 02:16 PM	#12
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,536	Quote: Originally posted by hgc Twice in a row, you've ducked. I'm willing to learn. Educate me. "I shall not get into a JREF pissing contest over your semantic interpretations" - That's not me ducking, that's ZN deciding he won't listen to anything I have to say. What, then, is the point? As far as Hamas goes, ZN highlighted the relevant bit himself: "the Jews' usurpation of Palestine." Who exactly are the "Jews usurping Palestine?" The Jewish community in Clearfield, Pennsylvania? No...They're talking about Israelis. It's called "context." Every time in Hamas' charter they refer to "Jews," it's rather obvious they mean "Israelis." Add that to the fact that referring to Israelis as "the Jews" in the Occupied Territories is pretty common. Not out of maliciousness, really, it's just that for the vast majority of these people their only contact with Jews has been Israel (particularly the IDF). If that's not enough, check out Hamas' wikipedia entry. Notice how many times Hamas has specifically Jews outside of Israel. Now, then, having said my piece, I will leave this thread. You and ZN may feel free to decide that I'm: <ul>[]Ducking[]Quitting[]Scared[]Unable/unwilling to justify what I've said[/list] I honestly don't care.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

8th July 2005, 02:43 PM	#13
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,114	Cleon, Hamas doesn't make the same distinction you make on their behalf. Further, it has to be just about the most brutal and racist organization on Earth. Why would you make appologies for it?
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

8th July 2005, 02:56 PM	#14
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,804	Re: Hamas rejects attacks on civilians in buses Quote: Originally posted by richardm Eh? Does this mean that they're not going to sanction any more bombs on buses in Israel? Or are Israelis not civilians? Or does the political bureau pretend to have nothing to do with the violence, a la Sinn Fein? From here Itâ€™s the worse kind of hypocrisy I can imagine. It can be nothing but part of an insidious PR campaign. I believe that what they are trying to do is portray to the â€œwestern worldâ€ that they are something other then ruthless indiscriminate murderers of innocents by saying the bombings in London are somehow different to the attacks they perpetrate against innocent people. They arenâ€™t. Hamas are exactly like the people behind the terrorist attacks in London yesterday - despicable, vile murderers. I was going to write more but I genuinely feel too disgusted to even put down any further thoughts at the moment.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

8th July 2005, 03:06 PM	#15
renata Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,334	It is not merely Israelis that die in these kinds of attacks. Many attacks involve, and even seem to target visitors. I recall that being justified as well- visitors give legitimacy and financial support to the Israelis. Similarly, I recall (although I do not have sources at this time) that Americans on 9/11 were fair game as they pay taxes and support an administration that supports Israel. Given that logic, I doubt there is a single person on the planet that is a "civilian". Lets see...Arab states that supply oil trade with US that supports Israel. Osama Bin Laden gives justification for war on terrorism that helps Israel, and so forth.
renata Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,334	__________________ The 2006 Skepchick Calendar Smart is sexy. Who is this renata person?... the local nutcase?- GP 2/15/05

8th July 2005, 06:32 PM	#16
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Quote: Originally posted by Mycroft Why would you make appologies for it? Because for some bizzare reason it seems to be easier for Cleon to play semantic games with Hamas's definition of the word "jew" than for him to admit he is mistaken in this instance.
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

8th July 2005, 08:43 PM	#17
Art Vandelay Illuminator Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 4,790	According to manny's link: Quote: That's why Israelis are still pursuing the Germans who took part in the Holocaust, though some of these people are in their 80s. They are still considered soldiers. My understanding that Isreal considers them criminals, not soldiers. An important distinction. Quote: Originally posted by Cleon One of the rationales Hamas has used to attack Israeli buses is that, since Israel has a universal draft and reserves, everyone is a soldier or potential combatant. Since Britain lacks said universal draft, British civilians are just civilians. Well, then. I guess Israel has never killed any civilians, either. Quote: Not Jew, Israeli. There's a difference. Quote: Every time in Hamas' charter they refer to "Jews," it's rather obvious they mean "Israelis." So... Hamas distinguishes between Jews and Israelis... but substitutes the word "Jew" for "Israeli" just for fun? If every Jew is a potential Israeli, and every Israeli is a potential soldier, is not every Jew a potential soldier? Quote: I honestly don't care. Yes, you do.

8th July 2005, 09:30 PM	#18
peptoabysmal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,467	Re: Hamas rejects attacks on civilians in buses Quote: Originally posted by richardm Eh? Does this mean that they're not going to sanction any more bombs on buses in Israel? Or are Israelis not civilians? Or does the political bureau pretend to have nothing to do with the violence, a la Sinn Fein? From here I think you missed the part where they place the blame squarely on: Quote: "If there is some party that should be held accountable for killing the innocent and spreading terror and chaos among the British people, it should be the government of Tony Blair," al-Tamimi told Aljazeera.
	__________________ OBAMA: It's not that I want to punish your success; I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they've got a chance to success, too. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.