Sharon in hospital after a "significant" stroke - Page 2

webfusion · 6th January 2006, 04:09 AM

a_u_p manages to throw in his own disclaimer:

Quote:

purely my opinion. (about the Kadima Party being useless without Sharon)

And your opinion has no basis in reality, as I just showed.
If you had the opinion that there was a guy in Rochester NY who did have the ability to make objects appear at will alongside railroad tracks, and I was to ask you to prove it, what would you say?
http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showthread.php?t=45017

Shalomsteph,
Who would you define as "Palipigs"?

How would you define "shalom"?

When did Gaza become "Israel's Land"?

The Next leader is Ehud Olmert, already. He is preparing to make further concessions, even as we speak. How is that "foolish"?

I have many more questions for you, but these will suffice for now...

Mycroft · 6th January 2006, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by geni

You mean politician who tell the truth. Yes admint that is somewhat odd.

Honesty is not normally commended when what you're being honest about is hateful bile.

zenith-nadir · 6th January 2006, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

When has Israel ever kept to an agreement it's made?

I dunno Capel... instead of "telling" everyone it's a fact try documenting it for us skeptics.

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

When has it ever honoured a truce, kept out of demilitarized zones, carried out a pledge?

I dunno Capel... instead of "telling" everyone it's a fact try documenting it for us skeptics.

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

When has Israel ever respected a border - or accepted a limit on its own?

I dunno Capel... instead of "telling" everyone it's a fact try documenting it for us skeptics.

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

The Oslo Accords were not implemented by Israel

Once again you "tell us" something is a fact but give no evidence. Allow me to show you why the Oslo Accords were not implemented by Israel Capel.

The Oslo Accords were not implemented by Israel because more Israelis were killed by Palestinian terrorists in the 5 years after Israel signed the Oslo agreement than in the preceding 15 years. Here's the graph:

So your attempt to paint Israel as the bad guy for "not implementing" OSLO was the result of Palestinian terrorism which killed alot of innocent people. This Palestinian terror spiked in a huge way after Arafat signed the Oslo Accords and that is why the Oslo Accords were not fully implemented by Israel. And this is typical of your posts, they are half truths meant to entirely obscure the Palestinian actions and highlight the mean old zionist "crimes". And I just proved it.

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

while they constantly undermined the PA as even a proto-state and took umbrage at them not being supermen.

I know...how dare Israel take umbrage that the Palestinian Authority not sponsor terrorism.

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

The Israelis have not, and their leaders have been elected on the understanding that they will not, acknowledge a Palestian State even in principle.

Yet another claim which I can debunk with a 2 minute Google search:

Quote:

Sharon's statement: Full text - Wednesday, 4 June, 2003, 15:20 GMT

Israel, like others, has lent its strong support for President Bush's vision, expressed on 24 June 2002, of two states - Israel and a Palestinian state - living side by side in peace and security.

Quote:

Jerusalem, 15 November 2000

Prime Minister Ehud Barak yesterday (Tuesday), November 14, 2000, during his plane's refueling stop in London, spoke with UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and reiterated Israel's demand for a halt to Palestinian violence and incitement.

Prime Minister Barak said that Israel has to respond at time of its choosing, according to its considerations, to the continued murderous attacks and terrorist acts from the Palestinian side. The Prime Minister emphasized that a Palestinian state must not be allowed to be established through violence and incitement; rather, it must come about through negotiations and agreement.

So much for yet another of your bogus claims Capel that: "their leaders have been elected on the understanding that they will not, acknowledge a Palestian State even in principle".

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

A leader that tried to was killed and replaced by someone more appropriate.

He was killed by a lone gunman and there was no conspiracy to "replace" Rabin with someone "more appropriate".

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

Israel has always signed agreements and negotiated in bad faith. Sharret and Rabin are the only exceptions; one was side-lined, the other was murdered.

I am alway amazed at the lengths you go to in these Middle Eastern threads to minimize, or even exclude, the PLO, Black September, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Abu Nidal organization, Fatah, Tanzim, Force 17, Ahmed Abu Reish Brigade, The Popular Resistance Committees, Al Aqsa Marytrs Brigade, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Haj Amin al-Husseini, Gamal Abdel Nasser, The House of Saud, Hafez Assad, Arafraud and all those other swell folks who have been trying to destroy Israel over the past 60 years.

If you actually did include those "pieces of the puzzle" then statements such as:

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

The Oslo Accords were not implemented by Israel

..would be put into the proper - and correct - context.

Mycroft · 6th January 2006, 04:47 AM

Edited: Didn't say anything that wasn't said better by Z-N.

zenith-nadir · 6th January 2006, 05:07 AM

It's only a matter of time now.

Quote:

Jan. 6, 2006 14:41

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was rushed back to the operating room after a precautionary CAT scan performed on him late Friday morning showed new bleeding in the same area of the brain and an expansion in the cerebral ventricles in his brain.

Director General of Hadassah Hospital, Doctor Shlomo Mor-Yosef told reporters that Sharon was experiencing an escalation in cranial and blood pressure as well.

If Sharon ever regains consciousness he would only have the collective IQ of Paris Hilton & Nichole Ritche. Which is not enough to run Israel I am afraid.

shalomsteph · 6th January 2006, 05:35 AM

Thanks, Zenith. I don't need to respond now.

Oh, except when I say "Palipigs" I mean...ummm....Palipigs. Not ALL Palestinians, just their corrupt leaders and homicide bombers. And Israel got Gaza in a war that the Arabs started...if they don't want to risk losing land, maybe they shouldn't start wars...just a thought

Perforatu · 6th January 2006, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by shalomsteph

Thanks, Zenith. I don't need to respond now.

Oh, except when I say "Palipigs" I mean...ummm....Palipigs. Not ALL Palestinians, just their corrupt leaders and homicide bombers. And Israel got Gaza in a war that the Arabs started...if they don't want to risk losing land, maybe they shouldn't start wars...just a thought

By that logic, Iraq rightfully belongs to the US.

Mycroft · 6th January 2006, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

purely my opinion.

Quote:

Kadima would win election even without Sharon: poll

Jan 6, 2006 — JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's centrist Kadima party would easily win a March 28 general election even without the incapacitated leader at its helm, two newspaper polls published on Friday showed.

The polls were the first to test the political waters for Sharon's newly formed Kadima party since the prime minister suffered a severe cerebral hemorrhage on Wednesday night and was said by doctors to be unlikely to return to public life.

A poll published in the Haaretz daily found that Kadima led by Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert would win 40 seats in the 120-member parliament, well ahead of the right-wing Likud party and the centre-left Labor Party.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1477572

Cleon · 6th January 2006, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by shalomsteph

Thanks, Zenith. I don't need to respond now.

Oh, except when I say "Palipigs" I mean...ummm....Palipigs. Not ALL Palestinians, just their corrupt leaders and homicide bombers.

Yeah, right. "Palipigs." "Homicide bombers."

geni · 6th January 2006, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by Perforatu

By that logic, Iraq rightfully belongs to the US.

UK. I think you will find we occupied it first. After that spat between Great Britian and the US that started in 1812 I supose we could claim bits of the US. I think mostly the bits with politicians in.

webfusion · 11th January 2006, 04:38 AM

Arik Sharon is reported to be responding positively to external stimuli.
The doctors even placed a plate of his favorite food, Schwarma, in front of him to test his reaction!

Now, I came to bump this thread, due to several posts that didn't sit well with me. Let's go to the videotape:

1. CapelDodger:

Quote:

Peres. There's the rub. Can he, against all the odds, after all those decades of not-quite-good-enough and falling-at-the-last, be the hero of the last act? This has got to be his last chance, and an ego like Rabin's has to suspect Destiny's Call. Will he step up?

If he does, how will Kadima handle it? Olmert, aka the Mouth of Sharon, might be OK with it - he's more a campaigner than a candidate - but how will the other Likudniks take it? I do hope Rabin goes for it, just for the entertainment value.

Can anyone here can decipher this rambling and incoherent post? What, for the love of ed, does Yitzhak Rabin (Z"L) have to do with anything now?

2. shalomsteph (who came in as a hit & run to the thread) tells me that she doesn't need to reply to me, because Z-N took care of answering for her.

Sorry I don't see how his postings have anything to do with what I asked you, shalomsteph. I'll review and see if you wish to respond again ---
Your mention of "palipigs" caught me by surprise, since it was indeed used in the context of ALL Palestinians: Your context was as follows:
But I was never a big fan of Sharon's, because he was too nice to the Palipigs. If you really meant, as you later claimed, that you intended to refer to uummmm, "just their corrupt leaders and homicide bombers." then the original way you used "Palipigs" doesn't make sense. How was Arik Sharon (or any leader of Israel) 'too nice' to the corrupt leaders and terrorists?

No, shalomsteph, you said palipigs as your reference to the entire Palestinian people. Go ahead, admit it.

My other questions, about how you define "shalom" and when did Gaza become "Israel's Land" were sidestepped by you ---

The best you could do, was this:
"And Israel got Gaza in a war that the Arabs started...if they don't want to risk losing land, maybe they shouldn't start wars...just a thought"

The Egyptians and the Jordanians and the Syrians started the war in '67, by their shelling of the Galilee and buildup of forces accompanied by threats of invasion, and the closing of the Suez. IIRC, both Egypt and Jordan have signed peace treaties, gotten the land they lost back and relinquished ALL further claims of land (to the millimeter). So your "thought" has no basis in reality.

Besides that, I asked -- when did Gaza become "Israel's Land"? If your answer is 1967, then by that same token, I say, it was not Israel's Land anyway and the withdrawal was appropriate and long-overdue, as is the need to withdraw and relinquish control over the West Bank.

My final question --
The Next leader is Ehud Olmert, already. He is preparing to make further concessions, even as we speak. How is that "foolish"?

The very first thing he has done as Prime Minister, is allow the Jerusalem-resident Palestinians vote in the PLC elections. That's a pretty big concession. Do you consider it foolish?

Awaiting your return to the thread...

geni · 11th January 2006, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

The very first thing he has done as Prime Minister, is allow the Jerusalem-resident Palestinians vote in the PLC elections. That's a pretty big concession. Do you consider it foolish?

[mode=cynic]
Because it removes the PA's excuse for preventing the elections takeing place and it lloks like hammas will do well.[/mode]

Mycroft · 11th January 2006, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Can anyone here can decipher this rambling and incoherent post? What, for the love of ed, does Yitzhak Rabin (Z"L) have to do with anything now?

Lol!

It doesn't say anything at all, but it sure sounds like he knows what he's talking about, doesn't it? He's genius that way!

6th January 2006, 04:27 AM	#42
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,103	Originally Posted by geni You mean politician who tell the truth. Yes admint that is somewhat odd. Honesty is not normally commended when what you're being honest about is hateful bile.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

6th January 2006, 04:42 AM	#43
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Originally Posted by CapelDodger When has Israel ever kept to an agreement it's made? I dunno Capel... instead of "telling" everyone it's a fact try documenting it for us skeptics. Originally Posted by CapelDodger When has it ever honoured a truce, kept out of demilitarized zones, carried out a pledge? I dunno Capel... instead of "telling" everyone it's a fact try documenting it for us skeptics. Originally Posted by CapelDodger When has Israel ever respected a border - or accepted a limit on its own? I dunno Capel... instead of "telling" everyone it's a fact try documenting it for us skeptics. Originally Posted by CapelDodger The Oslo Accords were not implemented by Israel Once again you "tell us" something is a fact but give no evidence. Allow me to show you why the Oslo Accords were not implemented by Israel Capel. The Oslo Accords were not implemented by Israel because more Israelis were killed by Palestinian terrorists in the 5 years after Israel signed the Oslo agreement than in the preceding 15 years. Here's the graph: So your attempt to paint Israel as the bad guy for "not implementing" OSLO was the result of Palestinian terrorism which killed alot of innocent people. This Palestinian terror spiked in a huge way after Arafat signed the Oslo Accords and that is why the Oslo Accords were not fully implemented by Israel. And this is typical of your posts, they are half truths meant to entirely obscure the Palestinian actions and highlight the mean old zionist "crimes". And I just proved it. Originally Posted by CapelDodger while they constantly undermined the PA as even a proto-state and took umbrage at them not being supermen. I know...how dare Israel take umbrage that the Palestinian Authority not sponsor terrorism. Originally Posted by CapelDodger The Israelis have not, and their leaders have been elected on the understanding that they will not, acknowledge a Palestian State even in principle. Yet another claim which I can debunk with a 2 minute Google search: Quote: Sharon's statement: Full text - Wednesday, 4 June, 2003, 15:20 GMT Israel, like others, has lent its strong support for President Bush's vision, expressed on 24 June 2002, of two states - Israel and a Palestinian state - living side by side in peace and security. Quote: Jerusalem, 15 November 2000 Prime Minister Ehud Barak yesterday (Tuesday), November 14, 2000, during his plane's refueling stop in London, spoke with UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and reiterated Israel's demand for a halt to Palestinian violence and incitement. Prime Minister Barak said that Israel has to respond at time of its choosing, according to its considerations, to the continued murderous attacks and terrorist acts from the Palestinian side. The Prime Minister emphasized that a Palestinian state must not be allowed to be established through violence and incitement; rather, it must come about through negotiations and agreement. So much for yet another of your bogus claims Capel that: "their leaders have been elected on the understanding that they will not, acknowledge a Palestian State even in principle". Originally Posted by CapelDodger A leader that tried to was killed and replaced by someone more appropriate. He was killed by a lone gunman and there was no conspiracy to "replace" Rabin with someone "more appropriate". Originally Posted by CapelDodger Israel has always signed agreements and negotiated in bad faith. Sharret and Rabin are the only exceptions; one was side-lined, the other was murdered. I am alway amazed at the lengths you go to in these Middle Eastern threads to minimize, or even exclude, the PLO, Black September, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Abu Nidal organization, Fatah, Tanzim, Force 17, Ahmed Abu Reish Brigade, The Popular Resistance Committees, Al Aqsa Marytrs Brigade, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Haj Amin al-Husseini, Gamal Abdel Nasser, The House of Saud, Hafez Assad, Arafraud and all those other swell folks who have been trying to destroy Israel over the past 60 years. If you actually did include those "pieces of the puzzle" then statements such as: Originally Posted by CapelDodger The Oslo Accords were not implemented by Israel ..would be put into the proper - and correct - context.
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch Last edited by zenith-nadir; 6th January 2006 at 04:57 AM.

6th January 2006, 04:47 AM	#44
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,103	Edited: Didn't say anything that wasn't said better by Z-N.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

6th January 2006, 05:07 AM	#45
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	It's only a matter of time now. Quote: Jan. 6, 2006 14:41 Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was rushed back to the operating room after a precautionary CAT scan performed on him late Friday morning showed new bleeding in the same area of the brain and an expansion in the cerebral ventricles in his brain. Director General of Hadassah Hospital, Doctor Shlomo Mor-Yosef told reporters that Sharon was experiencing an escalation in cranial and blood pressure as well. If Sharon ever regains consciousness he would only have the collective IQ of Paris Hilton & Nichole Ritche. Which is not enough to run Israel I am afraid.
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

6th January 2006, 06:01 AM	#48
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,103	Originally Posted by a_unique_person purely my opinion. Quote: Kadima would win election even without Sharon: poll Jan 6, 2006 — JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's centrist Kadima party would easily win a March 28 general election even without the incapacitated leader at its helm, two newspaper polls published on Friday showed. The polls were the first to test the political waters for Sharon's newly formed Kadima party since the prime minister suffered a severe cerebral hemorrhage on Wednesday night and was said by doctors to be unlikely to return to public life. A poll published in the Haaretz daily found that Kadima led by Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert would win 40 seats in the 120-member parliament, well ahead of the right-wing Likud party and the centre-left Labor Party. http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1477572
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

6th January 2006, 04:09 AM	#41
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	a_u_p manages to throw in his own disclaimer: Quote: purely my opinion. (about the Kadima Party being useless without Sharon) And your opinion has no basis in reality, as I just showed. If you had the opinion that there was a guy in Rochester NY who did have the ability to make objects appear at will alongside railroad tracks, and I was to ask you to prove it, what would you say? http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showthread.php?t=45017 Shalomsteph, Who would you define as "Palipigs"? How would you define "shalom"? When did Gaza become "Israel's Land"? The Next leader is Ehud Olmert, already. He is preparing to make further concessions, even as we speak. How is that "foolish"? I have many more questions for you, but these will suffice for now...

6th January 2006, 05:35 AM	#46
shalomsteph Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: St. Cloud, MN Posts: 356	Thanks, Zenith. I don't need to respond now. Oh, except when I say "Palipigs" I mean...ummm....Palipigs. Not ALL Palestinians, just their corrupt leaders and homicide bombers. And Israel got Gaza in a war that the Arabs started...if they don't want to risk losing land, maybe they shouldn't start wars...just a thought

6th January 2006, 05:59 AM	#47
Perforatu Thinker Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 's-Hertogenbosch Posts: 171	Originally Posted by shalomsteph Thanks, Zenith. I don't need to respond now. Oh, except when I say "Palipigs" I mean...ummm....Palipigs. Not ALL Palestinians, just their corrupt leaders and homicide bombers. And Israel got Gaza in a war that the Arabs started...if they don't want to risk losing land, maybe they shouldn't start wars...just a thought By that logic, Iraq rightfully belongs to the US.

6th January 2006, 06:02 AM	#49
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,504	Originally Posted by shalomsteph Thanks, Zenith. I don't need to respond now. Oh, except when I say "Palipigs" I mean...ummm....Palipigs. Not ALL Palestinians, just their corrupt leaders and homicide bombers. Yeah, right. "Palipigs." "Homicide bombers."
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

6th January 2006, 06:21 AM	#50
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,552	Originally Posted by Perforatu By that logic, Iraq rightfully belongs to the US. UK. I think you will find we occupied it first. After that spat between Great Britian and the US that started in 1812 I supose we could claim bits of the US. I think mostly the bits with politicians in.

11th January 2006, 04:38 AM	#51
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Out of Danger Arik Sharon is reported to be responding positively to external stimuli. The doctors even placed a plate of his favorite food, Schwarma, in front of him to test his reaction! Now, I came to bump this thread, due to several posts that didn't sit well with me. Let's go to the videotape: 1. CapelDodger: Quote: Peres. There's the rub. Can he, against all the odds, after all those decades of not-quite-good-enough and falling-at-the-last, be the hero of the last act? This has got to be his last chance, and an ego like Rabin's has to suspect Destiny's Call. Will he step up? If he does, how will Kadima handle it? Olmert, aka the Mouth of Sharon, might be OK with it - he's more a campaigner than a candidate - but how will the other Likudniks take it? I do hope Rabin goes for it, just for the entertainment value. Can anyone here can decipher this rambling and incoherent post? What, for the love of ed, does Yitzhak Rabin (Z"L) have to do with anything now? 2. shalomsteph (who came in as a hit & run to the thread) tells me that she doesn't need to reply to me, because Z-N took care of answering for her. Sorry I don't see how his postings have anything to do with what I asked you, shalomsteph. I'll review and see if you wish to respond again --- Your mention of "palipigs" caught me by surprise, since it was indeed used in the context of ALL Palestinians: Your context was as follows: But I was never a big fan of Sharon's, because he was too nice to the Palipigs. If you really meant, as you later claimed, that you intended to refer to uummmm, "just their corrupt leaders and homicide bombers." then the original way you used "Palipigs" doesn't make sense. How was Arik Sharon (or any leader of Israel) 'too nice' to the corrupt leaders and terrorists? No, shalomsteph, you said palipigs as your reference to the entire Palestinian people. Go ahead, admit it. My other questions, about how you define "shalom" and when did Gaza become "Israel's Land" were sidestepped by you --- The best you could do, was this: "And Israel got Gaza in a war that the Arabs started...if they don't want to risk losing land, maybe they shouldn't start wars...just a thought" The Egyptians and the Jordanians and the Syrians started the war in '67, by their shelling of the Galilee and buildup of forces accompanied by threats of invasion, and the closing of the Suez. IIRC, both Egypt and Jordan have signed peace treaties, gotten the land they lost back and relinquished ALL further claims of land (to the millimeter). So your "thought" has no basis in reality. Besides that, I asked -- when did Gaza become "Israel's Land"? If your answer is 1967, then by that same token, I say, it was not Israel's Land anyway and the withdrawal was appropriate and long-overdue, as is the need to withdraw and relinquish control over the West Bank. My final question -- The Next leader is Ehud Olmert, already. He is preparing to make further concessions, even as we speak. How is that "foolish"? The very first thing he has done as Prime Minister, is allow the Jerusalem-resident Palestinians vote in the PLC elections. That's a pretty big concession. Do you consider it foolish? Awaiting your return to the thread...

11th January 2006, 05:06 AM	#52
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,552	Originally Posted by webfusion The very first thing he has done as Prime Minister, is allow the Jerusalem-resident Palestinians vote in the PLC elections. That's a pretty big concession. Do you consider it foolish? [mode=cynic] Because it removes the PA's excuse for preventing the elections takeing place and it lloks like hammas will do well.[/mode]

11th January 2006, 03:27 PM	#53
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,103	Originally Posted by webfusion Can anyone here can decipher this rambling and incoherent post? What, for the love of ed, does Yitzhak Rabin (Z"L) have to do with anything now? Lol! It doesn't say anything at all, but it sure sounds like he knows what he's talking about, doesn't it? He's genius that way!
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees