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kevin · 31st May 2006, 01:15 PM

Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't?

Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters?

Gravy · 31st May 2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by kevin

Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't?

Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters?

Oklahoma City: conspiracy theories abound, but they're boring.

Unabomber: can't out-manifesto him.

Garfield: No one knew him when he was elected, no one cared when he died a few months later. Anyway, the term "conspiracy theory" hadn't been invented yet, nor had "moonbat lunkhead" or "playa hater."

Shuttle disasters: because Morton Thiokol spikes our drinking water.

kitakaze · 31st May 2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

What events generate conspiracy theories?

Ones which involve a subject that is close to the hearts of many yet have an outcome that is mundane.

bob_kark · 31st May 2006, 01:50 PM

Actually, there are shuttle disaster CTs out there. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Unibomber had a CT too. However, I think CTs weren't fashionable in Garfield's era. Anyway, I'm sure there are people who will believe anything, given half a chance.

Hellbound · 31st May 2006, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by bob_kark

Actually, there are shuttle disaster CTs out there. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Unibomber had a CT too. However, I think CTs weren't fashionable in Garfield's era. Anyway, I'm sure there are people who will believe anything, given half a chance.

And if you don't give them half a chance, they'll make up something to believe

kevin · 31st May 2006, 02:01 PM

Ok, granted there is a nut job for every event (there is probably a CT about my birth) but some really seem to take off.

Emotional impact might play part in it. Living in the midwest I knew a lot of people with contacts to Oklahoma City and there the true story was close enough to a conspirarcy theory already that perhaps that was good enough. And they caught and more importantly tried the guy.

New York City has way more ties to people (I had 2 brothers living in the city at the time, putting me closer to that disaster than OKC). They've never really got anyone directly accountable for it (no sense of justice plays a roll maybe? I dunno that seems giving these nutballs more credit than they really deserve.)

Same for JFK and Licoln, ties to lots of people, murderer never really caught and punished "properly", etc....

Shuttle disasters were already the fault of science and gov't incompetency so maybe the CTers couldn't top it?

bjb · 31st May 2006, 02:13 PM

There is a shuttle conspiracy theory and it is actually linked to the World Trade Center conspicacy. The Russians shot down Challenger with some kind of electromagnetic missile:

http://www.cheniere.org/books/analys...htm#Challenger

Apparently, this technology was invovled with pretty much every disaster in the 20th century. I didn't find the World Trade Center attacks in this webpage but I couldn't stand to look at it for more than a few minutes. I did notice something about quaternions, and I know the space shuttle and many other space vehicles use quaternions in their navigation algorithms instead of the simpler X-Y-Z rotations. Don't let this maniac fool you with his big, fancy words!

brodski · 31st May 2006, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by kevin

Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't?

Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters?

only events which are the results if conspiracies generate conspiracy theories, its obvious, we've just all been educated stupid.

bob_kark · 31st May 2006, 02:30 PM

Brodski's conspiring to educate us!!

brodski · 31st May 2006, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by bob_kark

Brodski's conspiring to educate us!!

yeah, educate you, pinch your socks, blow up bildings- anythign just as long as it's a CONSPIRACY

( BTW "educated stupid" is a favorite phrase of this nutter- LINK NSFW crazy anti-Semitism ahead http://www.timecube.com/ I think he posted here for a while, TimeCube guy has all kinds of crazy, he is the Uber-woo)

gfunkusarelius · 31st May 2006, 02:54 PM

now with the internet forums, webpages and such, almost anything can become a CT. the biggest ones typically seem to be over the biggest events. like here in the US, last year hurricane katrina was probbaly the biggest news and there were lots of CTs, including that the gov't actually blew up the levees to do something (i'm not sure what, destroy the low income housing to displace minorities or some such thing) and it just seems like "information" can travel so fast and it lands in forums or webpages where no one is really allowed to challenge it and what used to be really limited to very few people gets traction with larger crowds cause everyone is hooked up to email and they get these links that are easy to follow to see all this information that appears so well researched and organized

Jon. · 31st May 2006, 03:12 PM

I suspect that conspiracy theories flourish where people feel powerless. That is, where the wrongdoer(s) cannot be brought to justice either because they cannot be found and caught or because they died doing what they did. Subconsciously, many people want to blame somebody for what happened, and blaming a dead guy just doesn't get their rocks off. As it were.

Pardalis · 31st May 2006, 03:39 PM

I think the events that are the most significant, the ones that actually change things irrevocably for humankind. Some people just can't deal with it.

The moon landing: some people can't believe humankind can be so great.
9/11: Some people can't handle the fact humans are capable of such madness.

geni · 31st May 2006, 03:44 PM

No single factor but:

The size of the event

How well it fits with people's expected narative of world events

How complex and complete the true explantion is

these will decide whether a CT gets from stage zero (one guy with a website) to stage one (accepted by CT community and a few others)

The next stage mostly boils down to level of media exposure. Anyone who has herd The words fox and moonhoax close together will confirm this.

Ladewig · 31st May 2006, 04:33 PM

An excellent question.

I think some of the replies are missing something. A good theory should address:

Why do Princess Di car crash CTs become popular while JFK, jr airplane crash CTs do not?
Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not?
Why does the face on Mars CT become popular while space shuttle disaster CTs do not?
What gave the Clinton-killed-Vince-Foster CT so much popularity?

Beleth · 31st May 2006, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by kevin

Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't?

Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters?

Cognitive power dissonance.

People (mainly Americans) can't believe that the Folks In Charge can be so inept as to let something really bad happen, or to let something good stop happening.

Consider:
- There are Lincoln and JFK conspiracy theories because the government couldn't possibly let a President get shot.
- There's a 9/11 CT because the government couldn't possibly let two airplanes get hijacked and flown long enough to crash into skyscrapers, and even if they did, the government couldn't possibly let skyscrapers be built that would fall down if airplanes flew into them.
- There's a second 9/11 CT because the government couldn't possibly let a plane fly into the Pentagon.
- There's a moon landing CT because the government couldn't possibly just stop manned space travel to the Moon. (There weren't any moon landing CTs during the time of the Apollo missions, were there?)

Once you take the near-omnipotence and near-omniscience of the government as a given, the only way to reconcile events that can only be "easily" explained by government ineptitude is to come up with a "difficult" explanation. The government can't be that stupid; therefore, the government was smart enough to be controlling it from the start.

This only works for big screw-ups. There's a threshhold, or a level of humanity, that has to be crossed before a CT is even slightly plausible. That's why Oklahoma City and the shuttles didn't get CTs. They were believable oversights or mistakes.

geni · 31st May 2006, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

An excellent question.

I think some of the replies are missing something. A good theory should address:

Why do Princess Di car crash CTs become popular while JFK, jr airplane crash CTs do not?
Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not?

Event size.

Quote:

Why does the face on Mars CT become popular while space shuttle disaster CTs do not?

People's expected narative of world events accePts space travel is dangerious. People do not expect faces on mars.

Quote:

What gave the Clinton-killed-Vince-Foster CT so much popularity?

Political tribalism in the US. And it wasn't that popular.

steve s · 31st May 2006, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by gfunkusarelius

... including that the gov't actually blew up the levees to do something (i'm not sure what, destroy the low income housing to displace minorities or some such thing)

Sure. They wanted to clear them out so they could build expensive homes for rich people.....in a flood plain!!!

Steve S.

steve s · 31st May 2006, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Beleth

Cognitive power dissonance.

People (mainly Americans) can't believe that the Folks In Charge can be so inept as to let something really bad happen,

But in the movies, the government agent always manages to diffuse the bomb with just seconds to spare.

Steve S.

kevin · 31st May 2006, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

Why do Princess Di car crash CTs become popular while JFK, jr airplane crash CTs do not?
Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not?
Why does the face on Mars CT become popular while space shuttle disaster CTs do not?
What gave the Clinton-killed-Vince-Foster CT so much popularity?

A lot of these, imo, have no one thing or person to point at and say justice was served, plus emotional connection to the event.

Princess Di - blamed on paprizzi but not really an individual. Super high emotional connection.
JFK, jr - crashed his own plane. I have a feeling the lack of CT on this may be due the fact that he wasn't THAT famous. There is a difference between beening President JFK and magazine publisher JFK, Jr (also would account for the fewer CT's around RFK). Not as much emotional connection.

Kennedy - died, higher emotional connection because of that. Person did the shooting shot too. Ratchet up the injustice factor.
Regan - lived, shot by a nut who went to jail. Got me out of school for a day, made me happy. Jodi Foster probably has more CT's about this than Regan.

Face on mars, not sure on this one. ties into aliens and moon hoax stuff but I'm just not seeing my theory explain it.

Shuttle disasters => astronauts do dangerous things, so emotional connection is low, and simple explanations (o-ring, foam).

The Vince Foster thing makes me consider another angle. Why did the Foster CT not stick around. I think mainly because it was aimed at hatred of Clinton. Perhaps high emotional connection has to be a particular type. Not love but obsession? Hatred isn't enough to maintain a CT.

Holocaust deniers don't deny the holocaust simply because they hate jews, but because they're obsessed/love Hitler (and therefore hate jews because of that.)

Alien theories are because they're obsessed with the alien idea.

Does the CT come first or the obsession. I think after the initial event those already obsessed with the event build CT's and later believers may become obsessed because of the CT's?

gfunkusarelius · 1st June 2006, 04:53 AM

each CT comes about for different reasons, i think, but it seems there are at least a couple of general categories.

one, i'll call it the Fantasy CT, is based on people's desire to believe something fantastic. the man on mars, area 51, etc, are usually grabbed by people who want to believe in the paranormal, and gov't paranoia, CTs and such come about more as a means to an ends for their desired reality. all the people i know who believe in these things also believe (to some extent) in psychic powers, etc.

two, i would call the belief-based CT, is when people believe so strongly in something, they use CTs to support their beliefs....or destroy the opponents of their beliefs. more simply put, it is typically political weaponry, but religion is basically the same. i think the 9/11 and katrina CTs are flourishing almost completely because of peoples intense distrust and disgust with the GOP here in the states. all the people i work with that believe in these CTs hate Bush and devour anything that demonizes him. i am certain if you laid down some of the clinton CTs, they would say they were ridiculous, so it's got something to do with the bias clouding judgement.

i've also found people who believe in type one often dont believe in type two and vice versa.

valis · 1st June 2006, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

An excellent question.
Why do Princess Di car crash CTs become popular while JFK, jr airplane crash CTs do not?

I think a lot of it depends on how good a story can be made out of it. For instance with Princess Di you have her raising the next King of England while sleeping with a wealthy Moslem. That makes for a great CT.

Quote:

Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not?

Again you have an ex Marine, self proclaimed Communist who lived in the USSR shooting the President then he gets killed live on televison a day or two later. C'mon how can you resist a story like that.

What the CT folks forget is a good story is nice but if you can never find any facts to go with you should probably not belive it just because it sounds good.

kookbreaker · 1st June 2006, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not?

Survival of the perpetrator does a lot to aid in preventing conspiracy theories.

Examples: RFK. A few folks have tried to break out some conspiracy theories on this one, but they tend to fall flat. The motives and actions of Sirhan Sirhan have been spelled out, especially since he was not allowed to plead guilty and the DA forced the issue to trial.

MLK. Again the perpetrator survived. Here some conspiracy theories have risen, but they tend to fall flat as James Earl Ray was the guy who fed them. Ray had confessed, pled guilty, and so a lot of details were never brought out until later. Ray's attempt to paint himself as a patsy in front of the HSCA fell flat as he was exposed as making lie after lie. The fact that the King family bought into his nonsense shows that the King family traded in their father's legacy for some cheap ghetto paranoia.

Reagan. Ronnie lived, which helped, and so did his would-be assasin. The trail that resulted led to more outrage over the insanity verdict rather than revealing anything deep and conspiratorial, and resulted in a change in the US legal system.

Ford. Two attempts on his life, both failed to even injure him. Both assasins caught. Both at trial. No excitement. No hidden details.

Overman · 1st June 2006, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by kevin

Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't?

Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters?

Popularity.

For the most part, if it is a popular event it will have a conspiricy theory with a pretty standard ratio of popularity to the popularity to the event.

Unabomber didn't need one because that was intense enough!
Sidenote: The manifesto is a real good read. Check it out. The conclusions that it comes to (killing people) are gross but he brings up some interesting points.

The shuttle disasters....I don't know why there are none...mabye there are!
It would certinly fit in line as a premise to the "We never landed on the moon" CT.

James who?

31st May 2006, 01:15 PM	#1
kevin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,666	What events generate conspiracy theories? Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't? Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters?
kevin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,666	__________________ Long story short, if you wanna get famous, it helps if you're taking a dump. -- RealityBites

31st May 2006, 01:25 PM	#2
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by kevin Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't? Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters? Oklahoma City: conspiracy theories abound, but they're boring. Unabomber: can't out-manifesto him. Garfield: No one knew him when he was elected, no one cared when he died a few months later. Anyway, the term "conspiracy theory" hadn't been invented yet, nor had "moonbat lunkhead" or "playa hater." Shuttle disasters: because Morton Thiokol spikes our drinking water.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

31st May 2006, 01:50 PM	#4
bob_kark Person of Hench Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Globalist H.Q., 25th floor, 5th room on the right. Posts: 4,170	Actually, there are shuttle disaster CTs out there. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Unibomber had a CT too. However, I think CTs weren't fashionable in Garfield's era. Anyway, I'm sure there are people who will believe anything, given half a chance.
	__________________ "You may balk at this, but bob_kark's argument that all major world powers are controlled by a covert group of "insiders" is hopelessly flawed and totally circuitous." - Shemp

31st May 2006, 02:01 PM	#6
kevin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,666	Ok, granted there is a nut job for every event (there is probably a CT about my birth) but some really seem to take off. Emotional impact might play part in it. Living in the midwest I knew a lot of people with contacts to Oklahoma City and there the true story was close enough to a conspirarcy theory already that perhaps that was good enough. And they caught and more importantly tried the guy. New York City has way more ties to people (I had 2 brothers living in the city at the time, putting me closer to that disaster than OKC). They've never really got anyone directly accountable for it (no sense of justice plays a roll maybe? I dunno that seems giving these nutballs more credit than they really deserve.) Same for JFK and Licoln, ties to lots of people, murderer never really caught and punished "properly", etc.... Shuttle disasters were already the fault of science and gov't incompetency so maybe the CTers couldn't top it?
kevin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,666	__________________ Long story short, if you wanna get famous, it helps if you're taking a dump. -- RealityBites

31st May 2006, 02:13 PM	#7
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079	There is a shuttle conspiracy theory and it is actually linked to the World Trade Center conspicacy. The Russians shot down Challenger with some kind of electromagnetic missile: http://www.cheniere.org/books/analys...htm#Challenger Apparently, this technology was invovled with pretty much every disaster in the 20th century. I didn't find the World Trade Center attacks in this webpage but I couldn't stand to look at it for more than a few minutes. I did notice something about quaternions, and I know the space shuttle and many other space vehicles use quaternions in their navigation algorithms instead of the simpler X-Y-Z rotations. Don't let this maniac fool you with his big, fancy words!
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079

31st May 2006, 01:39 PM	#3
kitakaze Resident DJ/NSA Supermole Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Behind the decks in Tokyo, Japan/Victoria, Canada Posts: 9,461	Quote: What events generate conspiracy theories? Ones which involve a subject that is close to the hearts of many yet have an outcome that is mundane.

31st May 2006, 01:53 PM	#5
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 9,031	Originally Posted by bob_kark Actually, there are shuttle disaster CTs out there. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Unibomber had a CT too. However, I think CTs weren't fashionable in Garfield's era. Anyway, I'm sure there are people who will believe anything, given half a chance. And if you don't give them half a chance, they'll make up something to believe

31st May 2006, 02:15 PM	#8
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159	Originally Posted by kevin Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't? Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters? only events which are the results if conspiracies generate conspiracy theories, its obvious, we've just all been educated stupid.
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159

31st May 2006, 02:30 PM	#9
bob_kark Person of Hench Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Globalist H.Q., 25th floor, 5th room on the right. Posts: 4,170	Brodski's conspiring to educate us!!
	__________________ "You may balk at this, but bob_kark's argument that all major world powers are controlled by a covert group of "insiders" is hopelessly flawed and totally circuitous." - Shemp

31st May 2006, 02:38 PM	#10
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159	Originally Posted by bob_kark Brodski's conspiring to educate us!! yeah, educate you, pinch your socks, blow up bildings- anythign just as long as it's a CONSPIRACY ( BTW "educated stupid" is a favorite phrase of this nutter- LINK NSFW crazy anti-Semitism ahead http://www.timecube.com/ I think he posted here for a while, TimeCube guy has all kinds of crazy, he is the Uber-woo)
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159

31st May 2006, 02:54 PM	#11
gfunkusarelius Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 442	now with the internet forums, webpages and such, almost anything can become a CT. the biggest ones typically seem to be over the biggest events. like here in the US, last year hurricane katrina was probbaly the biggest news and there were lots of CTs, including that the gov't actually blew up the levees to do something (i'm not sure what, destroy the low income housing to displace minorities or some such thing) and it just seems like "information" can travel so fast and it lands in forums or webpages where no one is really allowed to challenge it and what used to be really limited to very few people gets traction with larger crowds cause everyone is hooked up to email and they get these links that are easy to follow to see all this information that appears so well researched and organized

31st May 2006, 03:12 PM	#12
Jon. Increasing entropy since 1970 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: On the Clapham omnibus Posts: 3,509	I suspect that conspiracy theories flourish where people feel powerless. That is, where the wrongdoer(s) cannot be brought to justice either because they cannot be found and caught or because they died doing what they did. Subconsciously, many people want to blame somebody for what happened, and blaming a dead guy just doesn't get their rocks off. As it were.
	__________________ In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. I don't appeal to the masses, and they don't appeal to me. - Graham Parker Calling modern day fundamentalists medieval is giving them about a thousand years of philosophical advancement they do not have. - Jorghnassen

31st May 2006, 03:39 PM	#13
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	I think the events that are the most significant, the ones that actually change things irrevocably for humankind. Some people just can't deal with it. The moon landing: some people can't believe humankind can be so great. 9/11: Some people can't handle the fact humans are capable of such madness.

31st May 2006, 03:44 PM	#14
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,642	No single factor but: The size of the event How well it fits with people's expected narative of world events How complex and complete the true explantion is these will decide whether a CT gets from stage zero (one guy with a website) to stage one (accepted by CT community and a few others) The next stage mostly boils down to level of media exposure. Anyone who has herd The words fox and moonhoax close together will confirm this.

31st May 2006, 04:33 PM	#15
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,936	An excellent question. I think some of the replies are missing something. A good theory should address: Why do Princess Di car crash CTs become popular while JFK, jr airplane crash CTs do not? Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not? Why does the face on Mars CT become popular while space shuttle disaster CTs do not? What gave the Clinton-killed-Vince-Foster CT so much popularity?

31st May 2006, 05:01 PM	#16
Beleth FAQ Creator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Not in a cave Posts: 4,134	Originally Posted by kevin Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't? Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters? Cognitive power dissonance. People (mainly Americans) can't believe that the Folks In Charge can be so inept as to let something really bad happen, or to let something good stop happening. Consider: - There are Lincoln and JFK conspiracy theories because the government couldn't possibly let a President get shot. - There's a 9/11 CT because the government couldn't possibly let two airplanes get hijacked and flown long enough to crash into skyscrapers, and even if they did, the government couldn't possibly let skyscrapers be built that would fall down if airplanes flew into them. - There's a second 9/11 CT because the government couldn't possibly let a plane fly into the Pentagon. - There's a moon landing CT because the government couldn't possibly just stop manned space travel to the Moon. (There weren't any moon landing CTs during the time of the Apollo missions, were there?) Once you take the near-omnipotence and near-omniscience of the government as a given, the only way to reconcile events that can only be "easily" explained by government ineptitude is to come up with a "difficult" explanation. The government can't be that stupid; therefore, the government was smart enough to be controlling it from the start. This only works for big screw-ups. There's a threshhold, or a level of humanity, that has to be crossed before a CT is even slightly plausible. That's why Oklahoma City and the shuttles didn't get CTs. They were believable oversights or mistakes.
	__________________ Administrator and Head Moderator, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe Forum Big Fan, Stop Sylvia Browne I will come back only after the words "Hi, Nyarl!" are returned to the post http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...5&postcount=14 .

31st May 2006, 05:06 PM	#17
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,642	Originally Posted by Ladewig An excellent question. I think some of the replies are missing something. A good theory should address: Why do Princess Di car crash CTs become popular while JFK, jr airplane crash CTs do not? Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not? Event size. Quote: Why does the face on Mars CT become popular while space shuttle disaster CTs do not? People's expected narative of world events accePts space travel is dangerious. People do not expect faces on mars. Quote: What gave the Clinton-killed-Vince-Foster CT so much popularity? Political tribalism in the US. And it wasn't that popular.

31st May 2006, 06:50 PM	#18
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,703	Originally Posted by gfunkusarelius ... including that the gov't actually blew up the levees to do something (i'm not sure what, destroy the low income housing to displace minorities or some such thing) Sure. They wanted to clear them out so they could build expensive homes for rich people.....in a flood plain!!! Steve S.
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,703

31st May 2006, 06:56 PM	#19
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,703	Originally Posted by Beleth Cognitive power dissonance. People (mainly Americans) can't believe that the Folks In Charge can be so inept as to let something really bad happen, But in the movies, the government agent always manages to diffuse the bomb with just seconds to spare. Steve S.
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,703

31st May 2006, 07:50 PM	#20
kevin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,666	Originally Posted by Ladewig Why do Princess Di car crash CTs become popular while JFK, jr airplane crash CTs do not? Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not? Why does the face on Mars CT become popular while space shuttle disaster CTs do not? What gave the Clinton-killed-Vince-Foster CT so much popularity? A lot of these, imo, have no one thing or person to point at and say justice was served, plus emotional connection to the event. Princess Di - blamed on paprizzi but not really an individual. Super high emotional connection. JFK, jr - crashed his own plane. I have a feeling the lack of CT on this may be due the fact that he wasn't THAT famous. There is a difference between beening President JFK and magazine publisher JFK, Jr (also would account for the fewer CT's around RFK). Not as much emotional connection. Kennedy - died, higher emotional connection because of that. Person did the shooting shot too. Ratchet up the injustice factor. Regan - lived, shot by a nut who went to jail. Got me out of school for a day, made me happy. Jodi Foster probably has more CT's about this than Regan. Face on mars, not sure on this one. ties into aliens and moon hoax stuff but I'm just not seeing my theory explain it. Shuttle disasters => astronauts do dangerous things, so emotional connection is low, and simple explanations (o-ring, foam). The Vince Foster thing makes me consider another angle. Why did the Foster CT not stick around. I think mainly because it was aimed at hatred of Clinton. Perhaps high emotional connection has to be a particular type. Not love but obsession? Hatred isn't enough to maintain a CT. Holocaust deniers don't deny the holocaust simply because they hate jews, but because they're obsessed/love Hitler (and therefore hate jews because of that.) Alien theories are because they're obsessed with the alien idea. Does the CT come first or the obsession. I think after the initial event those already obsessed with the event build CT's and later believers may become obsessed because of the CT's?
kevin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,666	__________________ Long story short, if you wanna get famous, it helps if you're taking a dump. -- RealityBites

1st June 2006, 04:53 AM	#21
gfunkusarelius Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 442	each CT comes about for different reasons, i think, but it seems there are at least a couple of general categories. one, i'll call it the Fantasy CT, is based on people's desire to believe something fantastic. the man on mars, area 51, etc, are usually grabbed by people who want to believe in the paranormal, and gov't paranoia, CTs and such come about more as a means to an ends for their desired reality. all the people i know who believe in these things also believe (to some extent) in psychic powers, etc. two, i would call the belief-based CT, is when people believe so strongly in something, they use CTs to support their beliefs....or destroy the opponents of their beliefs. more simply put, it is typically political weaponry, but religion is basically the same. i think the 9/11 and katrina CTs are flourishing almost completely because of peoples intense distrust and disgust with the GOP here in the states. all the people i work with that believe in these CTs hate Bush and devour anything that demonizes him. i am certain if you laid down some of the clinton CTs, they would say they were ridiculous, so it's got something to do with the bias clouding judgement. i've also found people who believe in type one often dont believe in type two and vice versa.
	Last edited by gfunkusarelius; 1st June 2006 at 04:57 AM.

1st June 2006, 05:33 AM	#22
valis Muse Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: sebastian. fl Posts: 649	Originally Posted by Ladewig An excellent question. Why do Princess Di car crash CTs become popular while JFK, jr airplane crash CTs do not? I think a lot of it depends on how good a story can be made out of it. For instance with Princess Di you have her raising the next King of England while sleeping with a wealthy Moslem. That makes for a great CT. Quote: Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not? Again you have an ex Marine, self proclaimed Communist who lived in the USSR shooting the President then he gets killed live on televison a day or two later. C'mon how can you resist a story like that. What the CT folks forget is a good story is nice but if you can never find any facts to go with you should probably not belive it just because it sounds good.
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1st June 2006, 06:05 AM	#23
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,255	Originally Posted by Ladewig Why do Kennedy-being-shot CTs become popular while Reagan-being-shot CTs do not? Survival of the perpetrator does a lot to aid in preventing conspiracy theories. Examples: RFK. A few folks have tried to break out some conspiracy theories on this one, but they tend to fall flat. The motives and actions of Sirhan Sirhan have been spelled out, especially since he was not allowed to plead guilty and the DA forced the issue to trial. MLK. Again the perpetrator survived. Here some conspiracy theories have risen, but they tend to fall flat as James Earl Ray was the guy who fed them. Ray had confessed, pled guilty, and so a lot of details were never brought out until later. Ray's attempt to paint himself as a patsy in front of the HSCA fell flat as he was exposed as making lie after lie. The fact that the King family bought into his nonsense shows that the King family traded in their father's legacy for some cheap ghetto paranoia. Reagan. Ronnie lived, which helped, and so did his would-be assasin. The trail that resulted led to more outrage over the insanity verdict rather than revealing anything deep and conspiratorial, and resulted in a change in the US legal system. Ford. Two attempts on his life, both failed to even injure him. Both assasins caught. Both at trial. No excitement. No hidden details.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,255	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

1st June 2006, 07:06 AM	#24
Overman Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 2,630	Easy Originally Posted by kevin Why do some events generate conspiracy theories, but others don't? Why conspiracy theories about JFK, Lincoln, 9/11, etc... but not for Oklahoma City, Unabomber, James Garfield, shuttle disasters? Popularity. For the most part, if it is a popular event it will have a conspiricy theory with a pretty standard ratio of popularity to the popularity to the event. Unabomber didn't need one because that was intense enough! Sidenote: The manifesto is a real good read. Check it out. The conclusions that it comes to (killing people) are gross but he brings up some interesting points. The shuttle disasters....I don't know why there are none...mabye there are! It would certinly fit in line as a premise to the "We never landed on the moon" CT. James who?
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