5 years later, Ground Zero still the same?

Tmy · 11th September 2006, 08:44 AM

Mayor Nagin caught some flack a couple weeks ago when he answered criticisim about New Orleans slow rebuilding buy pointing out that "hole in the ground" in New York. A little incensitive? Maybe. But is he wrong?? What is taking so long for a memorial and rebuilding. I occasionally see a New York paper story about everyone debating on what exactly to do. Well aint it time to just pick a plan and go with it.

I bet theyll be a hurricane katrina memorial built before theres one at ground zero.

BPSCG · 11th September 2006, 10:53 AM

The Wall Street Journal is calling it a hole in the ground today, too. And they're right, and so was Nagin.

Quote:

The Pentagon was rebuilt long ago, and the site north of the hole, where 7 WTC fell, has also been rebuilt by private developer Larry Silverstein. Just south of the pit, a bronze bas-relief memorial to the 343 firemen who died that day was recently unveiled. It was paid for by private donors organized by the law firm of Holland & Knight, one of whose partners was a volunteer firefighter who died on September 11.

These efforts contrast with the failure of New York's political class to build anything on the main site itself. Yes, the restraining wall against the Hudson River has been reinforced, and public transit hubs have been reconstructed. But the hole on the site itself is embarrassing testimony to dysfunctional New York politics. There is plenty of blame to go around -- from the Port Authority to timid and squabbling politicians, to legal fights over insurance money, to vainglorious architects, to the special interests that have tried to attach their own hobby horses to the site. Construction may finally begin soon on the large official memorial, with a goal of opening by September 11, 2009.

Another three years just to build a memorial.

StewartG · 11th September 2006, 11:00 AM

I file this situation under the heading of "national disgrace."

Everyone that I've ever talked to about this has pretty much said the same thing - build another tower or towers, make 'em taller, make 'em bigger, and get them up, like, YESTERDAY! (I kind of like the idea of a design shaped like a hand holding up a middle finger, but that's just the "NASCAR dad" in me showing through!)

Seriously, every day that the "hole in the ground" sits there, is another day of victory for Osama and his ilk and another day of shame through inaction not only for New York City but for all Americans everywhere.

Just my dos pesos.

HarryKeogh · 11th September 2006, 11:22 AM

Well, to be fair Ground Zero has given a place for purveyors of WTC snow globes and counterfeit NYPD baseball caps and T-shirts to gather to sell their crap to tourists. When opportunity knocks you have to answer the door.

The Central Scrutinizer · 11th September 2006, 11:36 AM

Don't discount the role of the "victims" in the delay.

"OK, here's the plans for a new skyscraper"
"Whaaaaaaaa!!!! You can't build there, that's where the old towers were!"

"OK, we'll move it over here"
"Whaaaaaaaa!!!! You can't build there, that's where the memorial is going"

"Speaking of the memorial, here's a great rendering"
"Whaaaaaaaa!!!! That doesn't honor their memory!"

"Oh look, someone found a bone shard 3 blocks away that looks like it came from the tip of a human pinky finger"
"Whaaaaaaaa!!!! We need to stop development and investigate this. It needs to be treated with dignity so we can get closure!!!"

Repeat for 5 years....

Azure · 11th September 2006, 11:44 AM

Read Here

And Here

Now shutup.

Beerina · 11th September 2006, 11:48 AM

IIRC, there were announcements that there would not, originally, be a skyscraper(s) rebuilt there, since the business case did not support it -- business space was not needed.

...unlike Asia, which is growing by leaps and bounds, and your megacity gets no respect unless it has at least one supra-Sears Tower building underway.

Of course, then it was to get built anyway to "show them a thing or two", which means New York will have the tallest building in the world for 3.2 seconds until Asia passes it again...and again...and again. If it even gets done before those are done.

gumboot · 12th September 2006, 09:22 AM

Personally I think the new building designs look pretty neat. I especially like Tower 2, with the diamonds on it. And I like how the "Freedom Tower" has been made so incredibly symbolic...

Of course it's just ASKING to get blown up again, but that's why I like it - it shows the terrorists you guys have the minerals. Knock it down again? we'll build and even BIGGER one.

It's a real pity it has taken soooo long.

I am also glad you guys added tree to the park thing. A big slab of concrete would have looked a bit lifeless.

-Andrew

Charlie Monoxide · 12th September 2006, 09:29 AM

It's a tough thing to do. From what I gather, getting anything done in NYC is a long and complicated affair especially with so many players in a 9/11 tribute.

I heard Guilliani interviewed last night and was asked why it's taking so long. He replied that the Oklahoma City memorial took 7 years. Good point ...

Charlie (no comment comes to mind) Monoxide

gumboot · 12th September 2006, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

I heard Guilliani interviewed last night and was asked why it's taking so long. He replied that the Oklahoma City memorial took 7 years. Good point ...

How long did the Vietnam War memorial or the Korean War Memorial take?

-Andrew

Cleon · 12th September 2006, 11:13 AM

On the upside, it really kinda takes the wind out of the LCers' sails.

If the NWO can't even coordinate building a $%^&ing memorial, how the hell did they manage to coordinate destroying the WTC in the first place?

Random · 12th September 2006, 11:26 AM

You assume that the NWO wishes to put up a memorial in the first place… <Cue ominous music>

BPSCG · 12th September 2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Cleon

On the upside, it really kinda takes the wind out of the LCers' sails.

If the NWO can't even coordinate building a $%^&ing memorial, how the hell did they manage to coordinate destroying the WTC in the first place?

Your innocent faith in the ability of the LC'ers to be influenced by logic is quite touching.

Azure · 12th September 2006, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cleon

On the upside, it really kinda takes the wind out of the LCers' sails.

If the NWO can't even coordinate building a $%^&ing memorial, how the hell did they manage to coordinate destroying the WTC in the first place?

Quoted for Truth!

Tmy · 12th September 2006, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by gumboot

How long did the Vietnam War memorial or the Korean War Memorial take?

-Andrew

Which one. I would guess there are thousands across the country.

Ground Zero is a different anyway. The speed of rebuilding would send a message to those who attacked us.

schplurg · 13th September 2006, 12:00 AM

I thought we were waiting for all of the terrorists to be killed before we put up any more buildings?

StewartG · 13th September 2006, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by Tmy

. . . Ground Zero is a different anyway. The speed of rebuilding would send a message to those who attacked us.

I completely agree. Hence my post above inclusive of its childish desire for a middle finger raised shaped building.

I find my initial rage against the terrorists starting to bleed into rage against those in charge of the WTC who can't get their ***** together.

11th September 2006, 08:44 AM	#1
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	5 years later, Ground Zero still the same? Mayor Nagin caught some flack a couple weeks ago when he answered criticisim about New Orleans slow rebuilding buy pointing out that "hole in the ground" in New York. A little incensitive? Maybe. But is he wrong?? What is taking so long for a memorial and rebuilding. I occasionally see a New York paper story about everyone debating on what exactly to do. Well aint it time to just pick a plan and go with it. I bet theyll be a hurricane katrina memorial built before theres one at ground zero.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

11th September 2006, 10:53 AM	#2
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	The Wall Street Journal is calling it a hole in the ground today, too. And they're right, and so was Nagin. Quote: The Pentagon was rebuilt long ago, and the site north of the hole, where 7 WTC fell, has also been rebuilt by private developer Larry Silverstein. Just south of the pit, a bronze bas-relief memorial to the 343 firemen who died that day was recently unveiled. It was paid for by private donors organized by the law firm of Holland & Knight, one of whose partners was a volunteer firefighter who died on September 11. These efforts contrast with the failure of New York's political class to build anything on the main site itself. Yes, the restraining wall against the Hudson River has been reinforced, and public transit hubs have been reconstructed. But the hole on the site itself is embarrassing testimony to dysfunctional New York politics. There is plenty of blame to go around -- from the Port Authority to timid and squabbling politicians, to legal fights over insurance money, to vainglorious architects, to the special interests that have tried to attach their own hobby horses to the site. Construction may finally begin soon on the large official memorial, with a goal of opening by September 11, 2009. Another three years just to build a memorial.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

11th September 2006, 11:36 AM	#5
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Don't discount the role of the "victims" in the delay. "OK, here's the plans for a new skyscraper" "Whaaaaaaaa!!!! You can't build there, that's where the old towers were!" "OK, we'll move it over here" "Whaaaaaaaa!!!! You can't build there, that's where the memorial is going" "Speaking of the memorial, here's a great rendering" "Whaaaaaaaa!!!! That doesn't honor their memory!" "Oh look, someone found a bone shard 3 blocks away that looks like it came from the tip of a human pinky finger" "Whaaaaaaaa!!!! We need to stop development and investigate this. It needs to be treated with dignity so we can get closure!!!" Repeat for 5 years....
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

11th September 2006, 11:48 AM	#7
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	IIRC, there were announcements that there would not, originally, be a skyscraper(s) rebuilt there, since the business case did not support it -- business space was not needed. ...unlike Asia, which is growing by leaps and bounds, and your megacity gets no respect unless it has at least one supra-Sears Tower building underway. Of course, then it was to get built anyway to "show them a thing or two", which means New York will have the tallest building in the world for 3.2 seconds until Asia passes it again...and again...and again. If it even gets done before those are done.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

12th September 2006, 09:22 AM	#8
gumboot lorcutus.tolere Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 23,127	Personally I think the new building designs look pretty neat. I especially like Tower 2, with the diamonds on it. And I like how the "Freedom Tower" has been made so incredibly symbolic... Of course it's just ASKING to get blown up again, but that's why I like it - it shows the terrorists you guys have the minerals. Knock it down again? we'll build and even BIGGER one. It's a real pity it has taken soooo long. I am also glad you guys added tree to the park thing. A big slab of concrete would have looked a bit lifeless. -Andrew
	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.

11th September 2006, 11:00 AM	#3
StewartG Scholar Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Kremlin (when not at my dacha in Houston) Posts: 78	I file this situation under the heading of "national disgrace." Everyone that I've ever talked to about this has pretty much said the same thing - build another tower or towers, make 'em taller, make 'em bigger, and get them up, like, YESTERDAY! (I kind of like the idea of a design shaped like a hand holding up a middle finger, but that's just the "NASCAR dad" in me showing through!) Seriously, every day that the "hole in the ground" sits there, is another day of victory for Osama and his ilk and another day of shame through inaction not only for New York City but for all Americans everywhere. Just my dos pesos.

11th September 2006, 11:22 AM	#4
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,342	Well, to be fair Ground Zero has given a place for purveyors of WTC snow globes and counterfeit NYPD baseball caps and T-shirts to gather to sell their crap to tourists. When opportunity knocks you have to answer the door.

11th September 2006, 11:44 AM	#6
Azure Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 2,538	Read Here And Here Now shutup.

12th September 2006, 09:29 AM	#9
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	It's a tough thing to do. From what I gather, getting anything done in NYC is a long and complicated affair especially with so many players in a 9/11 tribute. I heard Guilliani interviewed last night and was asked why it's taking so long. He replied that the Oklahoma City memorial took 7 years. Good point ... Charlie (no comment comes to mind) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

12th September 2006, 11:05 AM	#10
gumboot lorcutus.tolere Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 23,127	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide I heard Guilliani interviewed last night and was asked why it's taking so long. He replied that the Oklahoma City memorial took 7 years. Good point ... How long did the Vietnam War memorial or the Korean War Memorial take? -Andrew
	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.

12th September 2006, 11:13 AM	#11
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,535	On the upside, it really kinda takes the wind out of the LCers' sails. If the NWO can't even coordinate building a $%^&ing memorial, how the hell did they manage to coordinate destroying the WTC in the first place?
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

12th September 2006, 11:26 AM	#12
Random Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,464	You assume that the NWO wishes to put up a memorial in the first place… <Cue ominous music>
	__________________ ...So, the next time you find yourself desperately Googling for some factual example that proves your argument is right, and failing to find even one, stop. See if you can put the brakes on and actually say, out loud, "Wait a second. If the things I'm saying in order to bolster my argument are consistently wrong, then maybe my argument is also wrong." -Cracked

12th September 2006, 11:31 AM	#13
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by Cleon On the upside, it really kinda takes the wind out of the LCers' sails. If the NWO can't even coordinate building a $%^&ing memorial, how the hell did they manage to coordinate destroying the WTC in the first place? Your innocent faith in the ability of the LC'ers to be influenced by logic is quite touching.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

12th September 2006, 11:33 AM	#14
Azure Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 2,538	Originally Posted by Cleon On the upside, it really kinda takes the wind out of the LCers' sails. If the NWO can't even coordinate building a $%^&ing memorial, how the hell did they manage to coordinate destroying the WTC in the first place? Quoted for Truth!

12th September 2006, 05:19 PM	#15
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Originally Posted by gumboot How long did the Vietnam War memorial or the Korean War Memorial take? -Andrew Which one. I would guess there are thousands across the country. Ground Zero is a different anyway. The speed of rebuilding would send a message to those who attacked us.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

13th September 2006, 12:00 AM	#16
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 924	I thought we were waiting for all of the terrorists to be killed before we put up any more buildings?
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 924

13th September 2006, 03:03 AM	#17
StewartG Scholar Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Kremlin (when not at my dacha in Houston) Posts: 78	Originally Posted by Tmy . . . Ground Zero is a different anyway. The speed of rebuilding would send a message to those who attacked us. I completely agree. Hence my post above inclusive of its childish desire for a middle finger raised shaped building. I find my initial rage against the terrorists starting to bleed into rage against those in charge of the WTC who can't get their ***** together.
	__________________ I went to bed one night back in the 80s, straight up the middle of the road, politically. I woke up 20 years later, still believing in the EXACT same thing, but the American political world has shifted around me and all of a sudden I'm a left wing commie pinko liberal!!!