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SteveGrenard · 15th October 2006, 06:45 PM

While researching something else I don't know how I missed this from last February so here it is. The first evidence that chickens, at least a mutant type called talpid2, can grow teeth:

Quote:

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs...icken_ani.html

Mutant Chickens Grow Teeth
By Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News

Feb. 22, 2006 — Chickens born with a mutated gene associated with tooth development were coaxed by researchers into growing functioning teeth, according to a paper published in this week's Current Biology.

Researchers previously caused teeth to grow in birds by combining mouse tooth-forming tissue with bird jaw tissue, but this time the scientists merely enhanced a genetic trait that exists naturally in the mutant birds.

The unusual feat represents the first evidence for tooth development in birds without grafts or tissue manipulation.

Lead author Matthew Harris told Discovery News that the early theropod dinosaur ancestors of birds possessed impressive choppers.

Original Reference from Med-Line. Living crocodilians (alligators and crocs) are archosaurs. More evidence that crocodilians are pretty closely related to birds than to other reptiles.....

Quote:

The development of archosaurian first-generation teeth in a chicken mutant.

* Harris MP,
* Hasso SM,
* Ferguson MW,
* Fallon JF.

Department of Anatomy, University of Wisconsin, 1300 University Avenue, Madison, Wisconsin 53706, USA. matthew.harris@tuebingen.mpg.de

Modern birds do not have teeth. Rather, they develop a specialized keratinized structure, called the rhamphotheca, that covers the mandible, maxillae, and premaxillae. Although recombination studies have shown that the avian epidermis can respond to tooth-inductive cues from mouse or lizard oral mesenchyme and participate in tooth formation, attempts to initiate tooth development de novo in birds have failed. Here, we describe the formation of teeth in the talpid2 chicken mutant, including the developmental processes and early molecular changes associated with the formation of teeth. Additionally, we show recapitulation of the early events seen in talpid2 after in vivo activation of beta-catenin in wild-type embryos. We compare the formation of teeth in the talpid2 mutant with that in the alligator and show the formation of decidedly archosaurian (crocodilian) first-generation teeth in an avian embryo. The formation of teeth in the mutant is coupled with alterations in the specification of the oral/aboral boundary of the jaw. We propose an epigenetic model of the developmental modification of dentition in avian evolution; in this model, changes in the relative position of a lateral signaling center over competent odontogenic mesenchyme led to loss of teeth in avians while maintaining tooth developmental potential.

Morrigan · 15th October 2006, 07:35 PM

Haha. I don't know about English, but in French we have a saying that goes "Quand les poules auront des dents"; literally, "when hen will have teeth", meaning "when pigs will fly".

Guess it's time to drop it as obsolete...

Jeff Corey · 15th October 2006, 07:58 PM

Just curious, is "auront" the subjunctive third person plural (subjunctif) of "avoir" or some other tense that I had trouble with?
Around these here parts, we say. "Do a chicken have lips?"

SteveGrenard · 15th October 2006, 09:05 PM

it's the 3rd person pl (ils, elles) of the future tense of avoir; aient would be the the subjunctive.

they haven't figured out how to make a chicken grow lips yet but somebody is probably working on it along with flying pigs

SteveGrenard · 15th October 2006, 09:49 PM

Here it is, an exclusive to JREF. The first chickens with teeth:

CFLarsen · 16th October 2006, 12:04 AM

What is the big deal? Mutation is an integral part of evolution. It would be bigger news if mutation didn't happen.

"Mutants aren't monsters".

fuelair · 16th October 2006, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard

Here it is, an exclusive to JREF. The first chickens with teeth:

And isn't that Mel Gibson flashing the pearlies? Wonder if he had just laid an egg!

This Guy · 16th October 2006, 07:06 AM

"Feb. 22, 2006 — Chickens born with a mutated gene associated with tooth development were coaxed by researchers into growing functioning teeth, according to a paper published in this week's Current Biology."

What'd they do, offer them extra feed?

Around here, we say "Scarce as hens teeth". Appears it doesn't mean as scarce as it implied before...

Cuddles · 16th October 2006, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

What is the big deal? Mutation is an integral part of evolution. It would be bigger news if mutation didn't happen.

"Mutants aren't monsters".

The point isn't that they are mutants, it's that this is some pretty good evidence that theories on where birds evolved from are accurate.

Is it just me, or is there something inherently amusing about the phrase "mutant chickens"?

chulbert · 16th October 2006, 07:08 AM

Pulling hen's teeth suddenly got a whole lot easier.

CFLarsen · 16th October 2006, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Cuddles

The point isn't that they are mutants, it's that this is some pretty good evidence that theories on where birds evolved from are accurate.

Is it just me, or is there something inherently amusing about the phrase "mutant chickens"?

Just one more piece of evidence.

These days, ho-hum. Who doubts Evolution? Bring'em on.

SteveGrenard · 17th October 2006, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

And isn't that Mel Gibson flashing the pearlies? Wonder if he had just laid an egg!

Yeah. It's the world's first anti-semitic alcoholic chicken with teeth.

Captain Trips · 18th October 2006, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

And isn't that Mel Gibson flashing the pearlies? Wonder if he had just laid an egg!

You mean, another one? Wasn't "The Passion" a big enough egg?

15th October 2006, 06:45 PM	#1
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	Mutant Chickens Grow Primitive Teeth While researching something else I don't know how I missed this from last February so here it is. The first evidence that chickens, at least a mutant type called talpid2, can grow teeth: Quote: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs...icken_ani.html Mutant Chickens Grow Teeth By Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News Feb. 22, 2006 — Chickens born with a mutated gene associated with tooth development were coaxed by researchers into growing functioning teeth, according to a paper published in this week's Current Biology. Researchers previously caused teeth to grow in birds by combining mouse tooth-forming tissue with bird jaw tissue, but this time the scientists merely enhanced a genetic trait that exists naturally in the mutant birds. The unusual feat represents the first evidence for tooth development in birds without grafts or tissue manipulation. Lead author Matthew Harris told Discovery News that the early theropod dinosaur ancestors of birds possessed impressive choppers. Original Reference from Med-Line. Living crocodilians (alligators and crocs) are archosaurs. More evidence that crocodilians are pretty closely related to birds than to other reptiles..... Quote: The development of archosaurian first-generation teeth in a chicken mutant. * Harris MP, * Hasso SM, * Ferguson MW, * Fallon JF. Department of Anatomy, University of Wisconsin, 1300 University Avenue, Madison, Wisconsin 53706, USA. matthew.harris@tuebingen.mpg.de Modern birds do not have teeth. Rather, they develop a specialized keratinized structure, called the rhamphotheca, that covers the mandible, maxillae, and premaxillae. Although recombination studies have shown that the avian epidermis can respond to tooth-inductive cues from mouse or lizard oral mesenchyme and participate in tooth formation, attempts to initiate tooth development de novo in birds have failed. Here, we describe the formation of teeth in the talpid2 chicken mutant, including the developmental processes and early molecular changes associated with the formation of teeth. Additionally, we show recapitulation of the early events seen in talpid2 after in vivo activation of beta-catenin in wild-type embryos. We compare the formation of teeth in the talpid2 mutant with that in the alligator and show the formation of decidedly archosaurian (crocodilian) first-generation teeth in an avian embryo. The formation of teeth in the mutant is coupled with alterations in the specification of the oral/aboral boundary of the jaw. We propose an epigenetic model of the developmental modification of dentition in avian evolution; in this model, changes in the relative position of a lateral signaling center over competent odontogenic mesenchyme led to loss of teeth in avians while maintaining tooth developmental potential.
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov

15th October 2006, 07:35 PM	#2
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 7,000	Haha. I don't know about English, but in French we have a saying that goes "Quand les poules auront des dents"; literally, "when hen will have teeth", meaning "when pigs will fly". Guess it's time to drop it as obsolete...
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 7,000

15th October 2006, 09:05 PM	#4
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	it's the 3rd person pl (ils, elles) of the future tense of avoir; aient would be the the subjunctive. they haven't figured out how to make a chicken grow lips yet but somebody is probably working on it along with flying pigs
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov Last edited by SteveGrenard; 15th October 2006 at 09:42 PM.

16th October 2006, 12:04 AM	#6
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	What is the big deal? Mutation is an integral part of evolution. It would be bigger news if mutation didn't happen. "Mutants aren't monsters".
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

16th October 2006, 05:18 AM	#7
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,307	Originally Posted by SteveGrenard Here it is, an exclusive to JREF. The first chickens with teeth: And isn't that Mel Gibson flashing the pearlies? Wonder if he had just laid an egg!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,307

15th October 2006, 07:58 PM	#3
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,797	Just curious, is "auront" the subjunctive third person plural (subjunctif) of "avoir" or some other tense that I had trouble with? Around these here parts, we say. "Do a chicken have lips?"

16th October 2006, 07:06 AM	#8
This Guy Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the corner of WALK and DON'T WALK Posts: 2,000	"Feb. 22, 2006 — Chickens born with a mutated gene associated with tooth development were coaxed by researchers into growing functioning teeth, according to a paper published in this week's Current Biology." What'd they do, offer them extra feed? Around here, we say "Scarce as hens teeth". Appears it doesn't mean as scarce as it implied before...
	__________________ I'm lost. I've gone to find me. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait!

16th October 2006, 07:07 AM	#9
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,672	Originally Posted by CFLarsen What is the big deal? Mutation is an integral part of evolution. It would be bigger news if mutation didn't happen. "Mutants aren't monsters". The point isn't that they are mutants, it's that this is some pretty good evidence that theories on where birds evolved from are accurate. Is it just me, or is there something inherently amusing about the phrase "mutant chickens"?
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

16th October 2006, 07:08 AM	#10
chulbert Muse Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 725	Pulling hen's teeth suddenly got a whole lot easier.

16th October 2006, 07:21 AM	#11
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by Cuddles The point isn't that they are mutants, it's that this is some pretty good evidence that theories on where birds evolved from are accurate. Is it just me, or is there something inherently amusing about the phrase "mutant chickens"? Just one more piece of evidence. These days, ho-hum. Who doubts Evolution? Bring'em on.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

17th October 2006, 06:17 PM	#12
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	Originally Posted by fuelair And isn't that Mel Gibson flashing the pearlies? Wonder if he had just laid an egg! Yeah. It's the world's first anti-semitic alcoholic chicken with teeth.
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov

18th October 2006, 01:15 PM	#13
Captain Trips Scholar Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 95	Originally Posted by fuelair And isn't that Mel Gibson flashing the pearlies? Wonder if he had just laid an egg! You mean, another one? Wasn't "The Passion" a big enough egg?
Captain Trips Scholar Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 95	__________________ "I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own." -P. McGoohan