Objectivity is shared subjectivity

coberst · 27th October 2006, 05:12 AM

Objectivity is shared subjectivity

Everything we perceive is dependent upon our biological nature and reality has meaning only in what our sense and perception biology provide us. Real for me is only what I perceive to be real.

Someone said that objectivity is shared subjectivity; this phrase resonates for me; really. What we can say about reality is based upon our shared objectivity, it does not say anything significant about reality in-it-self, except in its constancy, but it is significant in that we humans share it universally; it is reality-for-humans

Each different comprehension of a situation provides a commitment to what is real about a situation. Each such real commitment is a version of a commitment to truth.

The arts and the sciences endeavor to discover and communicate to the world the meaning of reality. There came a time in the evolution of the human psychic when we became semantic creatures; we discovered the power of symbolic representation of events. Art focuses on the inner reality of the subject whereas science focused on the reality that was external to the subject.

“From this traditionalist standpoint information and the perception of meaning in the information is the central content of both arts and sciences. Hence when we speak of progress in the arts and sciences we can really refer to only one thing, namely that progress is taking place as long as the sum total of meaningful artistic and scientific statements waxes.” “The Coming of the Golden Age” by Gunther Stent

What we mean by “real” is what we need to postulate conceptually in order to be realistic, i.e., in order to function successfully to survive, to achieve ends, and to arrive at a workable understanding of the situation we are in. (Example—“verb”, “concept”, “image schema”, “energy” “charge”—none can be directly observed but play a crucial role in our understanding). “Philosophy in the Flesh”

UndercoverElephant · 27th October 2006, 05:23 AM

It's called "intersubjectivity".

Geoff

Beerina · 27th October 2006, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by coberst

Everything we perceive is dependent upon our biological nature and reality has meaning only in what our sense and perception biology provide us. Real for me is only what I perceive to be real.

Test that theory by walking off a cliff and see if you actually cease to exist, subjectively.

Hint: You'd be surprised how few philosophers are willing to test this.

skeptic griggsy · 27th October 2006, 06:36 AM

Coberst is so right!

RandFan · 27th October 2006, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Test that theory by walking off a cliff and see if you actually cease to exist, subjectively.

Hint: You'd be surprised how few philosophers are willing to test this.

I like the locked room experiment. We lock the doubter into a room without food, water or toilet. Most people would be soon disabused of such notions. Perception and or reality has a profound way of letting us know that regardless of the validity of reality we have little or no control so we might just as well act as if reality is valid because in the end we don't have a choice.

skeptic griggsy · 28th October 2006, 12:56 PM

We are the believers in reality while the others are the believers in unrealty . We are the rationalists, they the "irrationalists. Logic is the bane of theists.Onward naturalist inquirers.

Cosmo · 28th October 2006, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by lamberthml@comcast.

We are the believers in reality while the others are the believers in unrealty . We are the rationalists, they the "irrationalists. Logic is the bane of theists.Onward naturalist inquirers.

I don't think the world is nearly as black-and-white as you'd have it to be.

skeptic griggsy · 28th October 2006, 01:01 PM

We are the believers in reality while the others are the believers in unrealty . We are the rationalists, they the "irrationalists". Logic is the bane of theists.Onward naturalist inquirers. As the Englishman states:religion is mythinformation.

Tricky · 28th October 2006, 01:56 PM

Today is only yesterday's tomorrow.
----Uriah Heep

andyandy · 28th October 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by lamberthml@comcast.

. As the Englishman states:religion is mythinformation.

which Englishman? All of them?

skeptic griggsy · 28th October 2006, 04:55 PM

No, I mean in reference to religion. Actually, many religious are quite rational otherwise and some non-theists are irrational about the paranormal . I use naturalist,rationalist and skeptic in preference to non-theistic terms as to show atheism does not mean one clear of nonsense . The Englishman is some bloke at the Guardian Unlimited . Yes , grey runs through life.

27th October 2006, 05:12 AM	#1
coberst Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 417	Objectivity is shared subjectivity Objectivity is shared subjectivity Everything we perceive is dependent upon our biological nature and reality has meaning only in what our sense and perception biology provide us. Real for me is only what I perceive to be real. Someone said that objectivity is shared subjectivity; this phrase resonates for me; really. What we can say about reality is based upon our shared objectivity, it does not say anything significant about reality in-it-self, except in its constancy, but it is significant in that we humans share it universally; it is reality-for-humans Each different comprehension of a situation provides a commitment to what is real about a situation. Each such real commitment is a version of a commitment to truth. The arts and the sciences endeavor to discover and communicate to the world the meaning of reality. There came a time in the evolution of the human psychic when we became semantic creatures; we discovered the power of symbolic representation of events. Art focuses on the inner reality of the subject whereas science focused on the reality that was external to the subject. “From this traditionalist standpoint information and the perception of meaning in the information is the central content of both arts and sciences. Hence when we speak of progress in the arts and sciences we can really refer to only one thing, namely that progress is taking place as long as the sum total of meaningful artistic and scientific statements waxes.” “The Coming of the Golden Age” by Gunther Stent What we mean by “real” is what we need to postulate conceptually in order to be realistic, i.e., in order to function successfully to survive, to achieve ends, and to arrive at a workable understanding of the situation we are in. (Example—“verb”, “concept”, “image schema”, “energy” “charge”—none can be directly observed but play a crucial role in our understanding). “Philosophy in the Flesh”
coberst Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 417

27th October 2006, 05:23 AM	#2
UndercoverElephant Pachyderm of a Thousand Faces Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sussex, England Posts: 9,060	It's called "intersubjectivity". Geoff
	__________________ "I am real!" said Alice, and began to cry. "You won't make yourself a bit realler by crying," Tweedledee remarked: "there's nothing to cry about."

27th October 2006, 06:34 AM	#3
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by coberst Everything we perceive is dependent upon our biological nature and reality has meaning only in what our sense and perception biology provide us. Real for me is only what I perceive to be real. Test that theory by walking off a cliff and see if you actually cease to exist, subjectively. Hint: You'd be surprised how few philosophers are willing to test this.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

27th October 2006, 09:20 AM	#5
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,398	Originally Posted by Beerina Test that theory by walking off a cliff and see if you actually cease to exist, subjectively. Hint: You'd be surprised how few philosophers are willing to test this. I like the locked room experiment. We lock the doubter into a room without food, water or toilet. Most people would be soon disabused of such notions. Perception and or reality has a profound way of letting us know that regardless of the validity of reality we have little or no control so we might just as well act as if reality is valid because in the end we don't have a choice.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

28th October 2006, 02:04 PM	#10
andyandy anthropomorphic ape Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: up a tree Posts: 8,196	Originally Posted by lamberthml@comcast. . As the Englishman states:religion is mythinformation. which Englishman? All of them?
	__________________ "Contentment is found in the music of Bach, the books of Tolstoy and the equations of Dirac, not at the wheel of a BMW or the aisles of Harvey Nicks."

27th October 2006, 06:36 AM	#4
skeptic griggsy Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Augusta,Ga. Posts: 215	Coberst is so right!

28th October 2006, 12:56 PM	#6
skeptic griggsy Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Augusta,Ga. Posts: 215	We are the believers in reality while the others are the believers in unrealty . We are the rationalists, they the "irrationalists. Logic is the bane of theists.Onward naturalist inquirers.

28th October 2006, 12:59 PM	#7
Cosmo Radioactive Rationalist Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,169	Originally Posted by lamberthml@comcast. We are the believers in reality while the others are the believers in unrealty . We are the rationalists, they the "irrationalists. Logic is the bane of theists.Onward naturalist inquirers. I don't think the world is nearly as black-and-white as you'd have it to be.

28th October 2006, 01:01 PM	#8
skeptic griggsy Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Augusta,Ga. Posts: 215	We are the believers in reality while the others are the believers in unrealty . We are the rationalists, they the "irrationalists". Logic is the bane of theists.Onward naturalist inquirers. As the Englishman states:religion is mythinformation.

28th October 2006, 01:56 PM	#9
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,371	Today is only yesterday's tomorrow. ----Uriah Heep