Unanswered Questions about 9/11

[Gravy]

Originally Posted by A-Train

The FAA certainly is not "in on it." They did their jobs as best they could. They notified the appropriate authorities at the appropriate times.

They did? When did they notify the appropriate authorities about flight 93?

To the others, great posts.

[~enigma~]

Originally Posted by A-Train

The evidence for a NORAD stand down is self-evident. Just as the evidence of controlled demoltion at the WTC towers is self-evident to anyone who understands architecture, the evidence of a NORAD stand down is self-evident to anyone who understands air traffic control and the nation's air defense system.

The evidence shows that there isn't any intelligent life within a radius of 100 meters around you...

[MRC_Hans]

Originally Posted by WildCat

Wow, what a post Gumboot! It thoroughly decimates A-Train's argument. Sadly, if past experience w/ troofers is any indication, A-Train will completely ignore that post and act like it didn't ever happen, let alone respond to it point by point.

Yeah, these people remind me of cartoon characters: They jump into the scene, get run over by a team-roller, lie flat like a sheet for a second then pop back in their former shape and just go on. Good thing for them you won't bleed when mauled over the internet.

Hans

[A-Train]

Originally Posted by gumboot

It hasn't. Vanity Fair did an article on it from the recordings which they got from a FOIA request. If you're not aware of this you REALLY don't know much about NORAD and 9/11. You can read the article and listen to the recordings here.

So the way to REALLY know a lot about NORAD and 9/11 is to read articles in Vanity Fair? That article is a whitewash. Here is what former Boston Center controller Robin Hordon said about it:

Quote:

"Hordon debunked the recent Vanity Fair piece that whitewashed NORAD’s response as a consequence of confusion and the supposition that NORAD needs exact flight coordinates to enact any kind of response, and that the planes were supposedly invisible to radar and couldn’t be tracked properly....

“What they did is they cherry picked transmissions, communications and statements made all on these four flights that were able to paint and write a story that the public would look at and so ooh wow, this really happened – but it wasn’t factual, it was a story and it tell not tell anything other than what the high perps wanted the public to hear – they cherry picked this information,” said Hordon."
http://tenbob.gnn.tv/blogs/20470/Bos..._An_Inside_Job

Read the whole article. A little cross-analysis will do you some good.

Originally Posted by gumboot

I'm sorry, are you using Paul Thompson's timeline for evidence? Please tell me you're not...

How about, rather than a random newspaper supposedly quoting a supposed ATC and giving an account, you go to the Vanity Fair article and listen to an ACTUAL RECORDING of the ACTUAL people involved stating they had lost AA11?

Yes I do use Thompson's Terror Timeline. I have a lot more faith in those "random" newspaper accounts taken from a time close to the real events than I do in a Vanity Fair piece contrived later when everyone has had time to learn what they are supposed to say. And on the subject of NORAD, many of Thompson's entries are not taken from "random" newspaper articles but from NORAD itself, before it reversed itself and came out with the revised timeline that you accept as gospel truth.

Originally Posted by gumboot

NORAD didn't know about UA175 until 09:03:17 EDT - 11 minutes after New York Centre knew the aircraft was hijacked. Seems to me, if anyone was stood down, it was the FAA, not NORAD.

Once again, however, you're demonstrating failures by the FAA and ATC. This works AGAINST your claim that NORAD stood down. We're talking about NORAD, if they were stood down, and how well they did. So all that matters is when NORAD were told about AA77. When was that?

Well, Indianapolis, unlike Boston, actually followed correct proceedure on 9/11. When they found out about the hijacking of AA77, at 0856, they notified the FAA, not NORAD.

The problem was, in the general chaos of the morning, no one at the FAA bothered to tell NORAD. Once again, it was the FAA holding up the game, not NORAD.

NORAD only found out about AA77 by accident. How? Watson, from NEADS, was calling various ATC centres, trying to find a position on the phantom AA11 (and again, it was the FAA that made the mistake of thinking AA11 was still airbourne). While making a call to Washington Centre the military liason there mentioned they were ALSO looking for AA77. That was at 09:34:01 EDT. At this time Washington didn't know where AA77 was.

Then, a minute and a half later, it is BOSTON Centre that actually finally gives NEADS a position for AA77. By now AA77 is six miles from the White House, and it's too late to stop it. Yet at this moment, Boston doesn't even know who it is!

And so, your whole analysis, and our debate, revolves around the question, when did NORAD know about the hijacked planes? You pride yourself in expert knowledge of the workings of NEADS and NORAD, but really your conclusions are based on faith-- that the accounts presented by these organizations are true, because, by gollly, no one would lie to us, would they?

According to the official story that you accept, NORAD was not notified on time because FAA controllers and facilities did not tell them soon enough. In the words of David Ray Griffin, the FAA "takes the fall" for the air defense failure. But if this is true, have you ever pondered what a colossal failure this was on the part of the FAA? Such a complete breakdown, not just by one or two individuals, but by entire organizations at various facilities?

Flight11:

Quote:

"If the 8:37 AM time is accurate, then flight controllers failed to notify NORAD until approximately 13 minutes after the hijackers in the cockpit clearly stated that the plane had been hijacked at 8:24 AM; 17 minutes after the transponder signal was lost and the flight goes off course; and 24 minutes after radio contact was lost at 8:13 AM" -Terror Timeline

Flight77:

Quote:

"According to the 9/11 Commission, the FAA Command Center advises FAA headquarters that American77 is lost in Indianapolis flight control's airspace, that Indianapolis has no primary radar track, and i slooking for the aircraft. The Command Center had learned this 16 minutes earlier at 9:09 AM. American Airlines headquarters was notified of the same information before 9:00AM" -Terror Timeline

Controllers at Boston Center wait 17 minutes after losing a transponder? Then the Command Center sits on hijack info for 16 minutes before calling NORAD? Similar stories for the other two flights. You believe this stuff? You can ascribe it all to the "chaos of that morning"?

If these stories are even partly true it is the most massive case of gross incompetence in the history of air traffic. It would go beyond incompetence, to criminal negligence resulting in the deaths of almost 3000 people. And not just on the part of a few sleepy controllers, but on dozens of people throughout the command structure in numerous facilities, all of whom screwed up with monumental regularity throughout that morning. Why haven't any of these monstrously stupid, incompetent, criminally negligent people been called to account for any of their gargantuan mistakes that day? They haven't been called before Congress to answer for their jaw-dropping errors, much less hauled into a criminal court case. Why not?

I'll tell you why. If these people were to be really blamed in any consequential manner, they'd scream like hell. They'd hire lawyers, and the truth would start to spill out. And that truth is that NORAD was informed by the FAA in a timely manner with respect to all four flights. But the FAA has been persuaded to take the fall, with the condition that there will be no real consequences for doing so. No one fired. No one sued. No one prosecuted. In other words, they take the blame, so NORAD is off the hook, and everyone is off the hook, because no one suffers any negative consequences whatsoever. What a deal.

Originally Posted by gumboot

Ah yes. UA93. The flight that NEADS got told about AFTER it had crashed. Yup, clearly a NORAD stand down there. EVERYONE knows they can travel back in time.

No need for sarcasm. Once again your analysis hinges on your child-like faith in the timeline provided to you by the authorities.

[twinstead]

Originally Posted by A-Train

Once again your analysis hinges on your child-like faith in the timeline provided to you by the authorities.

Once again YOUR analysis hinges on YOUR child-like faith in conspiracy websites and your raging blind ideology.

Pot calling the kettle black, my ideologically blinded friend.

[~enigma~]

Originally Posted by A-Train

That article is a whitewash. Here is what former Boston Center controller Robin Hordon said about it:

Was Robin Hordon an ATC on 9/11? When was the last time he worked as an ATC?

[Spins]

Originally Posted by A-Train

Controllers at Boston Center wait 17 minutes after losing a transponder? Then the Command Center sits on hijack info for 16 minutes before calling NORAD? Similar stories for the other two flights. You believe this stuff? You can ascribe it all to the "chaos of that morning"?

There was a huge amount of confusion on the day and hijackings like this had never happened before in the US, especially on such a scale. It's easy in retrospect to criticize the actions of the FAA and NORAD when you know exactly what happened, which planes were hijacked, when, and what the intended targets were.

Also what you have to remember is it takes a reasonable amount of time to confirm a plane has been hijacked (in the real world that is and even more so before 9/11); it is a civilian plane after all not a nuclear bomber from the former USSR. As soon as the plane veered off course or didn't respond what do you expect ATC to do, get immediately on the phone to NORAD telling them to shoot the thing down?

What can I say, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I also don't understand what the point of a NORAD stand down order would be; realistically there was nothing they could do to stop the 2 planes flying into the Twin Towers (even you admit that) so really in a perfect world they only had time to shoot down 77 and 93. If they did it still would have been a huge terrorist incident, it's akin to WTC 7, what's the point. To say there was a stand down order simply means the perps had to do even more to cover up the conspiracy. They have to silence hundreds more people, it doesn't matter if it was carried out by "a very small number of officers within the command structure" (as you say) you still have to cover your ass, so to speak.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

Was Robin Hordon an ATC on 9/11? When was the last time he worked as an ATC?

He was not working on 9/11, and he's a member of "pilots for troof".

His main claim is that the FAA notified everyone - including the POTUS - at 8:24. There is, of course, no documentation for this. He also claims that the planes wouldn't have reached their targets, ignoring the fact that no shoot down order was given until after the planes hit their targets, no one knew what the targets were, no one knew the object of the hijackings was to crash into buildings, etc. The guy's a loon.

BTW A-Train, when are you going to produce the "dozens" of manifests you claim there are?

[~enigma~]

Originally Posted by WildCat

He was not working on 9/11, and he's a member of "pilots for troof".

His main claim is that the FAA notified everyone - including the POTUS - at 8:24. There is, of course, no documentation for this. He also claims that the planes wouldn't have reached their targets, ignoring the fact that no shoot down order was given until after the planes hit their targets, no one knew what the targets were, no one knew the object of the hijackings was to crash into buildings, etc. The guy's a loon.

BTW A-Train, when are you going to produce the "dozens" of manifests you claim there are?

Question was framed to show A-Train how stupid it is to even mention him. Alas, the question was wasted on him since it requires a brain to understand and apparently he is severely lacking.

[A-Train]

Originally Posted by WildCat

He was not working on 9/11, and he's a member of "pilots for troof".

Correction: He was a member of Pilots for Truth. I was too, before discovering the "no planes" theme of that site, and the obvious cerebral shortcomings of its owner.

[Cylinder]

So which NORAD officers executed the stand down?

[Panoply_Prefect]

Originally Posted by A-Train

Correction: He was a member of Pilots for Truth. I was too, before discovering the "no planes" theme of that site, and the obvious cerebral shortcomings of its owner.

I never seem to be able to keep tab on which Truther pages are in fashion and which are not.

Correct me if Im wrong:

IN:

Prisonplanet
Loose Change forum

OUT:

Scholars for 911 truth
Pilots for 911 truth (just added)
911 Issues AKA Jane Doe
Rense (or is that in?)

SLOB

[MaGZ]

I think your all wrong.

NORAD did the best they could defending America on 9/11.

They shot one plane down over Pennsylvania and almost shot down the second plane over NYC.


The Missiles at Ground Zero
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058

[The Almond]

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I think your all wrong.

NORAD did the best they could defending America on 9/11.

They shot one plane down over Pennsylvania and almost shot down the second plane over NYC.


The Missiles at Ground Zero
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058

So, rather than refute the points written here, you've decided to ignore everything and revert back to a blanket statement. Whom do you think you're convincing?

[boloboffin]

Um, just for the record, I still haven't seen where A-Train copped to which foreign government his posited band of rogue NORAD officials was standing down for. I know, I know, it starts with an I and ends with an L, but A-Train has yet to let his fingers fly over the keyboard and fill in the blank...

PS: Gumboot, could you fax me a copy of the official script? I spilled coffee all over mine last night...

[A W Smith]

Originally Posted by A-Train

Center controllers almost never quit their jobs. They are paid in excess of $140,000 a year. They are eligible to retire at age 50 with a pension of at least 60% of their pay, for life. Most of them have no marketable skills in the real world anyway. Most couldn't earn half of their salaries if they left their job. The only controller I know who quit did so because he could join his dad's successfull business. A couple of others quit, only to come back begging for their jobs a few years later.

It's the best job in the world. It's almost impossible to get fired, even if you "put two together." The only way to get really fired is to violate some security directive like the gag orders from 9/11.

Anyway, I want to make it clear that controllers do not "know the truth" about 9/11. A few of them know the truth only about a few details, like when the planes were known to be hijacked, and when the military was contacted. Only a few of them know this information, the rest know it from internal gossip. Very few of them are aware enough to know how it all ties in with a potential NORAD stand down. Most of them assume the air defense system broke down because of a little incompetence on the part of themselves or the military. So they keep quiet. You'd do the same.

Which is why there are whistleblower laws designed to protect such people. Debunked.. NEXT

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by A-Train

Correction: He was a member of Pilots for Truth. I was too, before discovering the "no planes" theme of that site, and the obvious cerebral shortcomings of its owner.

When are you going to produce the dozens of passenger manifests you claim exist?

[JimBenArm]

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I think your all wrong.

NORAD did the best they could defending America on 9/11.

They shot one plane down over Pennsylvania and almost shot down the second plane over NYC.


The Missiles at Ground Zero
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058

You think? Why would what you think matter to anyone? What makes you believe anyone here cares what an anti-semite moron thinks?

[gumboot]

Originally Posted by A-Train

So the way to REALLY know a lot about NORAD and 9/11 is to read articles in Vanity Fair? That article is a whitewash. Here is what former Boston Center controller Robin Hordon said about it:
Read the whole article. A little cross-analysis will do you some good.

Robin Hordon wasn't an ATC on 9/11, and throughout his interview he displays a gross lack of knowledge of pre-9/11 hijacking proceedure.

Let's just get this into your head, shall we?

Before 9/11 there was no intercept proceedure for aircraft flying over the Continential United States. NORAD did not monitor air traffic over the Continental United States, and they did not respond to incidents over the Continental United States.

In addition, the Posse Comitatus Act limits the involvement of the US Military in law enforcement activities.

Standard operating proceedure for ARTCCs prior to 9/11 was to notify the FAA Operations Centre, who would in turn notify the FBI.

This is because Aircraft Hijacking, or Skyjacking, is a Federal Crime.

NORAD's responsibility was the ADIZ - a zone around the coast of North America. None of the flights on 9/11 entered the ADIZ.

To make it CRYSTAL CLEAR...

Here are the relevant historical laws.

FAA Civil Flight Regulation 14 (14 CFR) Part 99 (Security Control of Air Traffic).

Quote:

Sec. 99.1

Applicability.

(a) This subpart prescribes rules for operating all aircraft (except for Department of Defense and law enforcement aircraft) in a defense area, or into, within, or out of the United States through an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) designated in subpart B.

(b) Except for §§99.7, 99.13, and 99.15 this subpart does not apply to the operation of any aircraft-

(1) Within the 48 contiguous States and the District of Columbia, or within the State of Alaska, on a flight which remains within 10 nautical miles of the point of departure;

Okay, so what about 99.7, 99.13, and 99.15?

Quote:

Sec. 99.7

Special security instructions.

Each person operating an aircraft in an ADIZ or Defense Area must, in addition to the applicable rules of this part, comply with special security instructions issued by the Administrator in the interest of national security, pursuant to agreement between the FAA and the Department of Defense, or between the FAA and a U.S. Federal security or intelligence agency.

Quote:

Sec. 99.13

Transponder-on requirements.

(a) Aircraft transponder-on operation. Each person operating an aircraft into or out of the United States into, within, or across an ADIZ designated in subpart B of this part, if that aircraft is equipped with an operable radar beacon transponder, shall operate the transponder, including altitude encoding equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.

(b) ATC transponder equipment and use. Effective September 7, 1990, unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate a civil aircraft into or out of the United States into, within, or across the contiguous U.S. ADIZ designated in subpart B of this part unless that aircraft is equipped with a coded radar beacon transponder.

(c) ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use. Effective December 30, 1990, unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate a civil aircraft into or out of the United States into, within, or across the contiguous U.S. ADIZ unless that aircraft is equipped with a coded radar beacon transponder and automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having altitude reporting capability that automatically replies to interrogations by transmitting pressure altitude information in 100-foot increments.

(d) Paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section do not apply to the operation of an aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system and which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, a balloon, or a glider.

Quote:

Sec. 99.15

Position reports.

(a) The pilot of an aircraft operating in or penetrating an ADIZ under IFR—

(1) In controlled airspace, must make the position reports required in §91.183; and

(2) In uncontrolled airspace, must make the position reports required in this section.

(b) No pilot may operate an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ under DVFR unless—

(1) The pilot reports to an appropriate aeronautical facility before penetration: the time, position, and altitude at which the aircraft passed the last reporting point before penetration and the estimated time of arrival over the next appropriate reporting point along the flight route;

(2) If there is no appropriate reporting point along the flight route, the pilot reports at least 15 minutes before penetration: The estimated time, position, and altitude at which the pilot will penetrate; or

(3) If the departure airport is within an ADIZ or so close to the ADIZ boundary that it prevents the pilot from complying with paragraphs (b)(1) or (2) of this section, the pilot must report immediately after departure: the time of departure, the altitude, and the estimated time of arrival over the first reporting point along the flight route.

(c) In addition to any other reports as ATC may require, no pilot in command of a foreign civil aircraft may enter the United States through an ADIZ unless that pilot makes the reports required in this section or reports the position of the aircraft when it is not less that one hour and not more that 2 hours average direct cruising distance from the United States.

Hmmm. That's weird. Nothing about hijacking there.

So basically, on one side, we have a person who claims to be a former ATC, who wasn't an ATC on 9/11, and doesn't know hijacking proceedures.

On the other side we have tape recordings, sworn testimonies of people who are CONFIRMED to be what they claim and who WERE involved on 9/11, US laws and regulations...

Hmmm... who should I believe?

Originally Posted by A-Train

Yes I do use Thompson's Terror Timeline. I have a lot more faith in those "random" newspaper accounts taken from a time close to the real events than I do in a Vanity Fair piece contrived later when everyone has had time to learn what they are supposed to say. And on the subject of NORAD, many of Thompson's entries are not taken from "random" newspaper articles but from NORAD itself, before it reversed itself and came out with the revised timeline that you accept as gospel truth.

Just to be clear here, I've never seen an "official NORAD timeline". Perhaps you have. Maybe it reflects the one I created myself from NON OFFICIAL sources.

Thompson's timeline is garbage. It's 80% conjecture. He quotes articles that are CLEARLY false, and makes no effort to cross-reference them.

Let's take, for example, the wargames on 9/11.

Thompson cites, numerous times, articles referring to an exercise called "Operation Northern Vigilance" that was "part exercise, part real world" and involved a pretend Russian bomber attack on the US. This exercise, with "false blips" and relocation of aircraft to the north, supposedly held NORAD back.

Well, Thompson is 100% utterly wrong. And some of the evidence is right in front of his face.

An exercise called Operation Northern Vigilance? Don't think so. Northern Vigilance was not an exercise at all. It was 100% a real world operation.

The Russian Air Force was conducting it's largest long-range bomber exercise in almost a decade. They had moved most of their bomber force north into eastern Siberia for this exercise.

During the Cold War it was normal for exercises like this to be shadowed. Any exercise could be a cover for a major attack, so when one side held an exercise, the other side deployed their own forces in an operational capacity, to counter any potential real attack. This practise continues to this day.

So when Russians held an exercise, NORAD initiated an operation to counter any potential Russian attack.

This is all clearly outlined in the NORAD press release announcing the deployment.

Northern Vigilance was not an exercise.
It did not involve a pretend Russian attack on the USA.
It did not involve false radar blips.

In addition, the deployment did not deplete the aircraft on alert status in the event of an incident inside the ADIZ.

These are all straight forward facts, that can be learned within a matter of a few minutes online. Yet Thompson fails to do this basic research, and instead leaves misleading and inaccurate news articles, in order to paint a false picture of 9/11.

Originally Posted by A-Train

And so, your whole analysis, and our debate, revolves around the question, when did NORAD know about the hijacked planes? You pride yourself in expert knowledge of the workings of NEADS and NORAD, but really your conclusions are based on faith-- that the accounts presented by these organizations are true, because, by gollly, no one would lie to us, would they?

Are you saying the NEADS and FAA tapes are fake? (Bear in mind the NORAD and ATC tapes from 9/11 confirm the same notification time for the flights)

Before you answer consider this very carefully. There are a lot of people on those tapes. Some of them were even interviewed as part of the Vanity Fair article.

If the tapes are fake, not only are all these people exceptional actors, but they have no qualms about lying about 9/11.

Some of these people have confirmed service records. They have relatives, families...

How far does this deception go? Is their entire life story fake? Or is it just the individuals themselves? Who will willingly lie to friends, family, and the media about the most horrific crime against their nation? Remember these are people who swore an oath to protect their nation and its civilians from harm...

So, now answer. Are the NEADS and FAA tapes fake? Yes, or no?

Originally Posted by A-Train

According to the official story that you accept, NORAD was not notified on time because FAA controllers and facilities did not tell them soon enough. In the words of David Ray Griffin, the FAA "takes the fall" for the air defense failure. But if this is true, have you ever pondered what a colossal failure this was on the part of the FAA? Such a complete breakdown, not just by one or two individuals, but by entire organizations at various facilities?

No, it's not. Because the FAA didn't drop the ball. Consider this. Prior to 9/11, standard proceedure was for the ATC to notify the FAA, who called the FBI. The information delay before anyone thought to involve the military would be enormous. If it happened at all. Most likely, it would all be over before NORAD was asked to get involved.

We even have evidence for this. The military response was requested through two channels - firstly, directly from the ATC. You don't hear, on the NEADS tapes, the first call Boston made, when they contacted a military airbase that didn't have alert fighters.

But then Boston called NEADS, and we got a connection.

Meanwhile, at the FAA Operations Centre, they have a military liason. This is the OFFICIAL CHANNEL. This military officer was ALSO asked to get military assistance. He couldn't get hold of anyone. So the official channel FAILED. Imagine we added another step, from the FAA to the FBI, and from them to the military. The delay would be even LONGER.

But luckily for us, that's not what happened. The guys at Boston had a gut instinct that this was something really bad, and they notified NORAD. You'll notice, in the timeline, that most of the notifications about flights come from Boston, even when the flights aren't in Boston airspace.

This was a violation of proceedure, but it was also the right move. Likewise, NORAD launched aircraft without an intercept point. Violation of proceedure. But a good decision. Made instinctively.

Neither ATCs, nor NORAD dropped the ball. Intercept was impossible. But because they broke the rules and acted quickly, they at least got close.

Originally Posted by A-Train

Controllers at Boston Center wait 17 minutes after losing a transponder? Then the Command Center sits on hijack info for 16 minutes before calling NORAD? Similar stories for the other two flights. You believe this stuff? You can ascribe it all to the "chaos of that morning"?

Firstly, yes. Both the NEADS and Boston tapes confirm this. Secondly, Boston didn't notify NEADS until after the "we have some planes" transmission was deciphered. This takes time. Thirdly, much of your facts there are wrong.

The Command Centre didn't notify NEADS at all. Boston contacted them directly. The delay, from the first moments of hiajcking, til NEADS notification, was only 24 minutes. 17 and 16, as you cite above, makes 33 minutes.

Originally Posted by A-Train

If these stories are even partly true it is the most massive case of gross incompetence in the history of air traffic. It would go beyond incompetence, to criminal negligence resulting in the deaths of almost 3000 people. And not just on the part of a few sleepy controllers, but on dozens of people throughout the command structure in numerous facilities, all of whom screwed up with monumental regularity throughout that morning. Why haven't any of these monstrously stupid, incompetent, criminally negligent people been called to account for any of their gargantuan mistakes that day? They haven't been called before Congress to answer for their jaw-dropping errors, much less hauled into a criminal court case. Why not?

Yadda yadda.

1) Intercept was impossible from the get go.
2) There was no shoot down order so all an interceptor could do is watch while the airliner hits its target.
3) The ARTCCs failure to follow proceedure gave NEADS a headstart. Had they followed proceedure NORAD wouldn't have been able to even get aircraft in the air.

Originally Posted by A-Train

And that truth is that NORAD was informed by the FAA in a timely manner with respect to all four flights. But the FAA has been persuaded to take the fall, with the condition that there will be no real consequences for doing so.

Yes, and all the ARTCC staff and NEADS staff happily faked an audio recording written by the best script writer in the world. Fortunately all of the ARTCC staff and NEADS staff happen to be excellent actors. And of course none of these acting-skilled government staff have spoken out and revealed this nasty secret.

-Gumboot