So... what DID happen on 9/11?

[Yurebiz]

I thought about making one thread where people can dump in what they think happened on 9/11.
Because, you know, since the 9/11 Commission Report is flawed... and the NIST report is lacking in a couple subjects, as we now know... a thread that explain some things by citing sources would be useful!

The main question here is what you think happened in order for the hijackers to crash the planes into the towers. What evidence is there pointing to those people, how did the FAA fail, what was NORAD doing, etc.

But there's also the collapses. How did the Twin Towers completely collapsed over ~10 seconds each, how were the 15 micron iron spheres formed, explanation for the 100 days underground fires, WTC7's collapse, and whatever other phenomena I might have forgot.

Let me say that I know such events are, and HAVE BEEN explainable. Someone (don't remember who, sorry) mentioned making a compilation of hypothesis that support the official story, citing sources, and comparing it to CTs. I thought that was an awesome idea. (hell, I thought of doing that too, but I got lost over months of reading through debunking articles.)

Moreover, you might think these events are irrelevant to the official story's ultimate narrative, but meh, this has been discussed over and over again, it would be very frigging useful to new people coming to this forum if we had a thread uniting all points to the official story. Fact is, there's yet to exist a single paper that explains it all. So why not build a thread here to help people out, get what I mean?

So please, post away...
I'm fine with links, but at least write down a summary to what it says on the other side. And from what sources did you compile the information. You know, the usual.

Again, some topics to pick on~
-Hijacker's proof of involvement
-FAA's timeline and explanations + NORAD's timeline and explanations
-Twin tower's 10 sec collapse
-Micron-sized iron spheres
-Underground fires
-WTC7's collapse

I'm probably forgetting something. But meh.
I hope I get some constructive posts this time, eh. Thank you.
OH GOD PLEASE DONT BASH ME. lol. D:

[Gravy]

May I suggest that you pick one topic and start a thread about that? Otherwise you're inviting a free-for-all.

Most of these issues have been discussed at length in this subforum. Perhaps you can use the search function and read the appropriate threads before raising the same questions again.

[thisninjascrazy]

Please do not feed the trolls.

[Alt+F4]

What do you feel is lacking in the thousands of 9/11 debuking posts already posted here?

[thisninjascrazy]

Better still, if you could point out how you think the 9/11 commission report is flawed or what you think NIST is lacking, that might be as good a start as any. If you're going to make sweeping statements, you should at least be prepared with something to back them up.

[JimBenArm]

Originally Posted by Alt+F4

What do you feel is lacking in the thousands of 9/11 debuking posts already posted here?

Minty Freshness.

[CHF]

Oh boy, let's address the same issue for the 7,648th time, shall we?

Zzzzzzzzzz.........

[Babbylonian]

I'm not going to summarize the following links because they are summaries themselves, however, they (in particular the first) should address your queries. Nice job, ref!

Ref's "Guides for the Undecided," parts 1, 2, 3 and 4:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=74652
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=74735
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=75126
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=75831

[babazaroni]

I'll save the 10 second debunking post I had here for another thread as it seems the consensus is the thread would cover too many topics.

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by thisninjascrazy

Better still, if you could point out how you think the 9/11 commission report is flawed or what you think NIST is lacking, that might be as good a start as any. If you're going to make sweeping statements, you should at least be prepared with something to back them up.

Excellent idea

[LashL]

Yurebiz,

I propose that you answer your own question first. That way, everyone will be able to ascertain the appropriate starting point for your theories or difficulties and will be much better situated to address whatever questions you have about the events. It really serves no useful purpose when someone comes along (for the thousandth time) and posts a wide open free-for-all type of post that lacks direction and lacks focus, and it would be much more productive if you would, therefore, answer your own question first. This would focus the discussion and make it much more meaningful.

To refresh your memory, your question was, "So, what DID happen on 9/11?"

And to paraphrase your OP, please, post away, and include links with summaries of the information contained in those links. Also, please include the sources from which you compiled that information.

[PhantomWolf]

-Twin tower's 10 sec collapse

They didn't. WTC 2 took 15-16 seconds. WTC 1 took 18-20 seconds. Neither is approximately 10 seconds. One is one and a half times that, the nearly twice.

[Thunder]

um..people hijacked some planes...flew them into buildings. buildings came down. one crashed into a field. lots of people died.

that was 9-11.

[Hokulele]

To answer the question in the title of the OP, I bought a Santa Cruz Juliana. I still have the receipt to prove it.

[PhantomWolf]

-Underground fires

For the most part the rubble just stayed hot untill it was exposed duing clean up, then with the air present the heat caused the nearby fuel to combust. Pockets of fuel did smoulder though, though there is nothing strange about that, peat and coal fires have been known to burn underground for years.

-WTC7's collapse

The building suffered massive structural damage from a building falling on it, then had fires burning unchecked in it for nearly 7 hours. It was considered unsafe and in danger of falling from very early on, and eventually did.

-FAA's timeline and explanations + NORAD's timeline and explanations

The ones they gave the commissions and were told off for, or the ones from the transcripts? To the commission they tried to save face and got busted. The transcripts however show that if they'd just told the truth they would have been vindicated anyway. If anyone screwed up it was the FAA in not getting the correct information to NEADS, but even if they had, there wasn't any precident or time to prevent the attacks and the FAA was in a real time event trying to do their best to cope with an impossible situation.

-Hijacker's proof of involvement

Identified by crew members, identified by ground staff, identified by DNA, identified by video confession/will, identified by personal belongings......

-Micron-sized iron spheres

Juries still out on that one, but the evidence is that it doesn'ty have anything to do with Thermite, Thermate, Space Beams or high explosives.

[Pardalis]

Didn't 19 Islamic fundamentalist terrorists highjack four planes and crash them into some buildings, or something?

[jhunter1163]

I met my wife that day. And I lost one of my best friends when some terrorists flew a plane into the World Trade Center.

The best of times, the worst of times...

[qarnos]

This would be a good one for the truthers. Instead of telling us what didn't happen on 9/11, why don't they come up with a coherent theory which gives a testable, alternate explanation for what we saw happen on that day?

Someone recently said, and it may have been on this forum - I don't remember exactly, but someone said, "It's fine to ask questions - but you have to be prepared to look for answers".

Yes, I know it isn't going to happen.

[Minadin]

Quote:

So... what DID happen on 9/11?

A bunch of pissed off muslims hijacked planes and tried to fly them into prominent buildings in the U.S. Three of the four groups succeeded.

Haven't you seen South Park? I know it's available on YouTube.

[Yurebiz]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

-Underground fires

For the most part the rubble just stayed hot untill it was exposed duing clean up, then with the air present the heat caused the nearby fuel to combust. Pockets of fuel did smoulder though, though there is nothing strange about that, peat and coal fires have been known to burn underground for years.

-WTC7's collapse

The building suffered massive structural damage from a building falling on it, then had fires burning unchecked in it for nearly 7 hours. It was considered unsafe and in danger of falling from very early on, and eventually did.

-FAA's timeline and explanations + NORAD's timeline and explanations

The ones they gave the commissions and were told off for, or the ones from the transcripts? To the commission they tried to save face and got busted. The transcripts however show that if they'd just told the truth they would have been vindicated anyway. If anyone screwed up it was the FAA in not getting the correct information to NEADS, but even if they had, there wasn't any precident or time to prevent the attacks and the FAA was in a real time event trying to do their best to cope with an impossible situation.

-Hijacker's proof of involvement

Identified by crew members, identified by ground staff, identified by DNA, identified by video confession/will, identified by personal belongings......

-Micron-sized iron spheres

Juries still out on that one, but the evidence is that it doesn'ty have anything to do with Thermite, Thermate, Space Beams or high explosives.

Thanks Phantom, you were the only one who summarized anything at all. I appreciate it. May I just ask for sources to each debunking, like separately? doesn't have to be you though, I'm sure other people can pull up some links as well.

Folks, I know everything has been DEBUNKED before. I know they have NO RELEVANCE or whatever. I'm asking you to put up a summary to what you think happened. The deal is, I want to make up a thread where we can join together multiple reports and evidence, and build a new 9/11 Commission Report. Get the idea?

Geez, if I were a frigging skeptic, I'm sure you guys would help me out here. You don't have to say something in every thread you read through, you know? Just post if you have something constructive to say. Don't come here saying it's all debunked, it's all a waste of time, bla bla bla; because I said that MYSELF already.That point is taken, THANK YOU.

Now, can anyone provide accurate sources for each debunked point? I'm trying to do something CONSTRUCTIVE here for once. Thank you once again.

[Blackwell]

Well, I'm sure all those questions have been answered in other threads, if you care to search. So all I have to add is:

Originally Posted by Hokulele

To answer the question in the title of the OP, I bought a Santa Cruz Juliana. I still have the receipt to prove it.

The Juliana? Not the Nomad? The Nomad is probably the sweetest ride I've ever been on. Too bad I can't afford one.

[Gravy]

Originally Posted by Yurebiz

Folks, I know everything has been DEBUNKED before. I know they have NO RELEVANCE or whatever. I'm asking you to put up a summary to what you think happened. The deal is, I want to make up a thread where we can join together multiple reports and evidence, and build a new 9/11 Commission Report. Get the idea?

No, I don't get the idea. Please review the existing threads.

My summary: Islamist hijackers crashed three planes into buildings and one into the ground. An excellent, detailed study of how that was accomplished is the 9/11 Commission report.

I have 7,500 posts here, most of which are about the how and why of these acts and their aftermath. My posts, like those of many others here, contain links to hundreds and hundreds of sources. I won't be reposting them for your pleasure.

If you have something specific to discuss that you haven't seen covered here, please start a new thread.

Is that unreasonable?

[Hokulele]

Originally Posted by Blackwell

Well, I'm sure all those questions have been answered in other threads, if you care to search. So all I have to add is:



The Juliana? Not the Nomad? The Nomad is probably the sweetest ride I've ever been on. Too bad I can't afford one.

I'm fairly short, so the Juliana was a better fit for me, plus it is very lightweight. My husband rented a Nomad when we were out in Tahoe last fall and really liked it. I'm just hoping I can replace the shocks on the Juliana this year and get another 5 years or so out of the frame before I have to look at a replacement.

Oh, and in response to Yurebiz, I would recommend taking a look at some of the sites referenced in the stickies at the top of this sub-forum, as they are much better organized for finding overview information than a message board could ever be. If after that review you have any specific questions, that's when a post to a board like this comes into play.

[Yurebiz]

Originally Posted by Gravy

No, I don't get the idea. Please review the existing threads.

My summary: Islamist hijackers crashed three planes into buildings and one into the ground. An excellent, detailed study of how that was accomplished is the 9/11 Commission report.

I have 7,500 posts here, most of which are about the how and why of these acts and their aftermath. My posts, like those of many others here, contain links to hundreds and hundreds of sources. I won't be reposting them for your pleasure.

If you have something specific to discuss that you haven't seen covered here, please start a new thread.

Is that unreasonable?

No, that's ok. I just wanted the sources and answers to the particular topics too though, but at least you summarized what you think, and that was one point alright.
I figure I'll just try mass source mining everything on my own and post an unified summary and see if everyone agrees with it.
No one is going to do it I assume :I

Hokulele there's no such sticky that assembles all the events I want in one story. You know, like a Commission Report or something. Ahah.

[Civilized Worm]

There was a coup in Chile.

[Gravy]

Originally Posted by Yurebiz

Hokulele there's no such sticky that assembles all the events I want in one story. You know, like a Commission Report or something. Ahah.

Our evidence and sources overwhelmingly support the official version. If you want an alternate story you'll have to write it yourself. For ages we've been asking conspiracists to come up with a coherent alternate story that's backed with evidence. No one has done so. I know why that is. Do you?

[T.A.M.]

Yurebiz:

the 4 links Babylonian has provided you early in this thread will provide you with almost all issues of the attacks, addressed to the extreme.

TAM