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Tags world trade center , explosions , william rodriguez , wtc , 911 conspiracy theory , 911

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Old 24th April 2007, 11:20 AM   #1
ref
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William Rodriguez revisited.

William Rodriguez was recently in Wisconsin, and some local newspapers covered that event.

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/042307...10AM9S.060.php
http://www.dailycardinal.com/news/wo...scue-tale.html
http://badgerherald.com/news/2007/04...er_custodi.php
http://www.leadertelegram.com/story.asp?id=82015

I thought I go through what he said in those articles to once more bring his contradicting stories to light.

Here are a couple of quotes from those articles:

Originally Posted by William Rodriguez
Rodriguez, who was two levels below ground, said he felt a large explosion that “pushed him upward into the air” seven seconds before the plane hit the building.
Originally Posted by William Rodriguez
According to Rodriguez’s account, for example, he and another worker felt an impact from the bottom of the building seconds before the first plane hit.
Originally Posted by William Rodriguez
At 8:46 a.m. he heard an explosion. “Boom!” Rodriguez imitated. He heard a man screaming “Explosion! Explosion!” from underneath. “I wanted to say a generator blew up. I thought it was a bomb.” This piece of evidence may show explosives were used in accompaniment to the hijacked planes, he said. When the plane hit, “the walls cracked and the building shook.”
Originally Posted by William Rodriguez
"We thought the generator blew up. Walls cracked, the ceiling fell on us, and the sprinkler system went off. Horror," the former North Tower janitor said Sunday. A man with skin melting from his face, arms and hands came running into the office shortly after, yelling "explosion, explosion!" A plane rammed into the building moments later, recalled Rodriguez, a native of Puerto Rico and United States citizen."

Notes:
1) The original quote from him was "We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/
Why does he now use the expression explosion instead of rumble? Why does he now say explosion pushed him up into the air, walls cracked, the ceiling fell, the building shook, when he originally said "rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture"?


2) In the first quote he says "explosion seven seconds before the plane hit". In the second quote he says "impact from the bottom seconds before the plane hit". But in the fourth quote he says "We thought the generator blew up, then shortly after that came a man from the elevator yelling "explosion, explosion", then moments later a plane rammed into the building.
Yelling "explosion, explosion" alone takes a couple of seconds. In addition to that, it was shortly before that when they thought the generator blew. And after the man entered, only moments later he says the plane hit. Does that whole sequence take only 2-7 seconds like he claims?

3) Why did he originally claim the two rumbles happened first and the man entered last?

This is a familiar subject to regulars, but we also have new faces here who may not know this. And this man as we speak tours around the world lecturing and telling heart-breaking stories.
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Last edited by ref; 24th April 2007 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 24th April 2007, 11:34 AM   #2
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Are you suggesting that he is lying, forgetting, being misrepresented or being misquoted?

As far as I know, he was a hero who risked his life to save others. Why can´t someone just record an interview with him, confirming or denying each charge? Christ, I´m tempted to do it myself.

Thanks for the info, ref.
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Old 24th April 2007, 11:41 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Liszt View Post
Are you suggesting that he is lying, forgetting, being misrepresented or being misquoted?

As far as I know, he was a hero who risked his life to save others. Why can´t someone just record an interview with him, confirming or denying each charge? Christ, I´m tempted to do it myself.

Thanks for the info, ref.
I am not saying, that he didn't save a lot of people. But what I'm saying is, that he now claims there were explosions and he believes explosives were used. And he lectures on those topics around the world. I am questioning his motives when he is changing his statements so much. A rumble is not an explosion. A rumble is not something that blows someone up into the air and cracks walls and ceilings. Something is wrong with his current story, compared to his original rumble story.

I believe he has been invited to discuss here, and he has joined. He just hasn't posted yet.
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Old 24th April 2007, 11:58 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Liszt View Post
Are you suggesting that he is lying, forgetting, being misrepresented or being misquoted?

As far as I know, he was a hero who risked his life to save others. Why can´t someone just record an interview with him, confirming or denying each charge? Christ, I´m tempted to do it myself.

Thanks for the info, ref.
Yes, he was a hero for saving many people. I would like to ask him how he knows that the explosion in the basement happened before the plane hit. What is his frame of reference to compare when the explosion he felt in the basement happened in comparison to when the plane hit?
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:02 PM   #5
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Yep, he's registered here: http://forums.randi.org/z/index.php?...liam_Rodriguez

Claims we're too mean though so he hasn't posted yet.
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:08 PM   #6
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I have a William Rodriguez question that perhaps someone can clear up. I've read that he was offered a large sum of money. Was this money from Republicans who wanted to give him a start on a political career or was this money a bribe from the perpetrators to keep quite?
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:23 PM   #7
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Where were the bombs he heard or experienced? Why is he alive is there was a bomb, the concussion alone would kill a lot of people who were around. Did he find people blown up in the basement? I wonder what happen to the freight elevator if the plane severed the cable or sent stuff flying down the shaft? Debris falling 1000 feet down an express elevator shaft would sound like an explosion. The darn large fire ball explosion of Jet Fuel would sound like an explosion.

How can you know when the plane hit if you are in the basement? How do you know what you hear is not the shock wave in the steel of the impact, then you hear the impact thru the air, and or stuff falling? I thought the last people out were in the stairwell?

If I heard a blast I would search the building where I thought the blast came from and try to save people. Did he find a bomb blast area? And why was no blast area found after the WTC was dug up? Why was there no blast basement area after everything was taken apart? Where is the guy on fire with his skin coming off? Did he take him up and save him? Where are the others who were in the basement? Someone must have been near the "bomb"? Why did he not find a bombed out room?

Why is he not posting and answering all the questions? Why is he on the road telling a story about how it was an inside job? How much can you make speaking about things that are not true? How much will you get for acting in LCFC? Does Charlie Sheen really have some facts? And if so, where is he hiding them?

It has been 5 years and only one person from the basement thinks there were bombs planted? What kind of blast did it sound like when you sat with the FBI and described this crime? Did they play sounds of RDX, HMX, and the famous "thermite/thermate" sounds to you? Which one was it? Did you smell the products of the explosion? Did the FBI test you for explosive stuff? You did tell the FBI you think someone blew up the basement, right? So how many sounds did they run by you? How about smells?

How much do you get paid by truther groups to talk?
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:25 PM   #8
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Yes, I am here and I will not answer any questions until I see a change of atittude to open a discussion. The personal attacks that I saw in other threads prevented me to outreach and answer your questions. I joined out of respect to my friendship with Randi and he is aware that I am here. Maybe in a fututre when I see more respectful approach. Later.
William Rodriguez
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by William_Rodriguez View Post
Yes, I am here and I will not answer any questions until I see a change of atittude to open a discussion. The personal attacks that I saw in other threads prevented me to outreach and answer your questions. I joined out of respect to my friendship with Randi and he is aware that I am here. Maybe in a fututre when I see more respectful approach. Later.
William Rodriguez
Sorry William, this is not the response of someone confident in his position. One would think that if you really believed that there were explosives pre-planted in the WTC on 9/11 and you had first-hand knowledge of this you would take on all comers, full speed ahead and damn the torpedos.

You were a hero on 9/11, you'd be a hero many times over if you could prove your claims to those who are skeptical rather than preaching to the converted as a well-paid speaker on the 9/11 "truth" circuit.
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:43 PM   #10
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prove to me that I am "well paid". I live in a basement and hardly make my ends meet.
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
How much do you get paid by truther groups to talk?
It's hard to say anything bad about someone who was there, especially someone regarded as a hero.

That being said, it makes me wonder when Willie starts threads like this at lcf.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...showtopic=8085
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by William_Rodriguez View Post
Yes, I am here and I will not answer any questions until I see a change of atittude to open a discussion. The personal attacks that I saw in other threads prevented me to outreach and answer your questions. I joined out of respect to my friendship with Randi and he is aware that I am here. Maybe in a fututre when I see more respectful approach. Later.
William Rodriguez
Welcome to the forum Mr. Rodriguez,

I look forward to the day you can post here

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Old 24th April 2007, 05:50 PM   #13
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read the whole thread in LC. I am just posting Barrets email and the coverage it received.
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:52 PM   #14
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Hello William....I for one never trash talk anyone here (with the exception of Ace Baker) and I must say that when your name comes up all I see are question marks.

Might I ask, what do you believe happened on 9/11? Was it 19 Islamic terrorists or perpetrators commanded by the Bush Administration or a third choice?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:53 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by William_Rodriguez View Post
prove to me that I am "well paid". I live in a basement and hardly make my ends meet.
I'd be more interested in how you could determine the explosions you heard happened before the planes struck the WTC, since you were in the basement. And how the elevators continued to operate when the shafts were packed with explosives. And what those explosives were supposed to accomplish since they cause zero structural damage to the WTC.

But if you'd rather talk finances, who footed the bill for your month-long speaking tour of the UK and what did you charge per appearance?

eta: btw William, no one doubts that there were explosions in the basements, lobby, and also on many floors. The problem for you is that all of these were at the elevators - supporting the findings of NIST that the explosions were from jet fuel spilling down the shafts and igniting. You think that they were due to bombs, yes?

Last edited by WildCat; 24th April 2007 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 24th April 2007, 05:59 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by William_Rodriguez View Post
Yes, I am here and I will not answer any questions until I see a change of atittude to open a discussion. The personal attacks that I saw in other threads prevented me to outreach and answer your questions. I joined out of respect to my friendship with Randi and he is aware that I am here. Maybe in a fututre when I see more respectful approach. Later.
William Rodriguez
Hello Mr. Rodriguez,
I hope that one day you can interact and post here, Until then you have my respect as the Hero you are for what you did on 9/11/2001.
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Old 24th April 2007, 06:29 PM   #17
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The main question that I have concerns Rodriguez' interpretation of the second event, seconds later, which he believes was "when the plane hit". I have trouble understanding how a person in the basement is able to identify the second event as when the plane hit, as opposed to the first. I would assume that being in the basement, he had no visual access to what was happening outside, could not hear the screaming engines as a person outside would hear, so I am curious to learn what was it about the second event that made him conclude "That was when the plane hit" as opposed to the first. I can easily see how a plane crash into a 110-story building would be perceived by a person in the basement as two separate events: first, the shudder of the aircraft penetrating the outer columns of the building (which made the building sway back and forth) and the combustion of the jet fuel seconds later, which shot down elevator shafts as other witnesses claim (the Naudet video also shows the plane hitting the building more squarely at the core than the South Tower crash, and the smaller fireball outside may reflect the greater amount of fuel delivered inside the building to the core where the elevator shafts were).

I also just noticed that the cracking of the walls is attributed to the first event in one account, and the second event in the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Rodriguez

At 8:46 a.m. he heard an explosion. “Boom!” Rodriguez imitated. He heard a man screaming “Explosion! Explosion!” from underneath. “I wanted to say a generator blew up. I thought it was a bomb.” This piece of evidence may show explosives were used in accompaniment to the hijacked planes, he said. When the plane hit, “the walls cracked and the building shook.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Rodriguez

"We thought the generator blew up. Walls cracked, the ceiling fell on us, and the sprinkler system went off. Horror," the former North Tower janitor said Sunday. A man with skin melting from his face, arms and hands came running into the office shortly after, yelling "explosion, explosion!" A plane rammed into the building moments later, recalled Rodriguez, a native of Puerto Rico and United States citizen."
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Old 24th April 2007, 06:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by William_Rodriguez View Post
Yes, I am here and I will not answer any questions until I see a change of atittude to open a discussion. The personal attacks that I saw in other threads prevented me to outreach and answer your questions. I joined out of respect to my friendship with Randi and he is aware that I am here. Maybe in a fututre when I see more respectful approach. Later.
William Rodriguez
So, you posted just to say that you will not post until you see a "change of attitude" as it pertains to you? It sounds like you are looking for sycophants, William. You won't find any here among the skeptics and critical thinkers.

In my opinion, you showed some bravery on September 11, 2001. As far as I know, most people here do not dispute that. That does not, however, make your subsequent stories and inconsistencies immune from scrutiny. Nor does it render your erroneous interpretations of events accurate. Nor does it cause critical thinkers to suspend their rational and critical thinking skills.

When you are ready to respond to legitimate questions about the various versions of events that you have given, and the apparent inconsistencies contained therein, I am sure that many here will be pleased to engage in discussion with you.

Until then, your refusal to engage is not exactly a big loss. An old song springs to mind, the hook line of which is, "Got along without you before I met you, I'll get along without you now".
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Old 24th April 2007, 06:37 PM   #19
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What is with these insinuations about a money grabbing Mr Rodriguez?

Show some respect.
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Old 24th April 2007, 06:50 PM   #20
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I have often wondered that. If he was in the basement, how the hell would he be able to tell exactly when the plane hit? I would imagine the plane hitting would sound exactly like an explosion.
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Old 24th April 2007, 07:20 PM   #21
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Welcome M. Rodriguez. Let me echo Crazy Chainsaw's post and salute the amazing selflessness and courage you have shown on that terrible day of infamy.

I also apreciate the fact that you decided not to go to Iran to speak about your theories on 9/11.

I agree with Hyperviolet, I wish the posters here let not this become a personal issue, let's just stick to M. Rodriguez' accounts and claims. I will try to do the same.


Originally Posted by LashL View Post
"Got along without you before I met you, I'll get along without you now".
I really hope this isn't from Roxette.

Last edited by Pardalis; 24th April 2007 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 24th April 2007, 07:23 PM   #22
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When you have Giuliani, getting 3 million dollars for a book on 9/11, then 3 millions for speaking in Mexico, 50 to 125k for speaking engagements, close to 220k for managing the firemen fund and finally close to half a million from Giuliani partners, you get to wonder who is making money on the events. My tour was put together by shoestring donations to pay for the airfare. I stayed on individual houses around UK. There were not charge at the events, except on a handful that they ask for a minimunof 3 to 5 punds to cover the cost of the rental of the venue, everything else...free. I raised from the whole tour a total of $7,560. as you may know by now, while in UK I received a call from here and had to end the tour 5 presentations short. My wife lost the baby we were eagerly waiting for. An emergency ticket..$600 dollars. Hospital bill, $6125 and medical expenses $2200. As you can see it was not a profitable venture at all. When I travel to speak in other countries in conferences, this organizations will pay for hotel and tickets and a food allowance. rarely will I get a honorarium. Finally, I made money as a janitor at the WTC than as a speaker.

There are many things I do not agree with and have been openly attacking people like Judy woods, Morgan Reynolds, CGI, Holograms , Bollyn, hufhsmidft, etc etc. That is one of the reasons I joined this forum.

Lashl, obviously think it is not a loss for me to open a dialogue so on that note, I will wait until Randi put an event together were I can meet personally with all of you and answer your questions face to face. God bless you all.
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Old 24th April 2007, 07:32 PM   #23
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Welcome to the JREF forums, William.

Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
I have often wondered that. If he was in the basement, how the hell would he be able to tell exactly when the plane hit? I would imagine the plane hitting would sound exactly like an explosion.
Quite a few people who were near the impact floors didn't hear the planes hit. They felt the building shake and sway, but didn't describe an explosion. To me the most rational explanation for the two sounds William heard from the basement is

1) He didn't hear the impact of flight 11.
2) He heard the explosion of jet fuel in the elevator shafts that we know burned Felipe David and others.
3) He heard sounds caused by the crash upstairs, such as elevators crashing down.

AFAIK, people didn't describe two elevator shaft explosions in the north tower basement. So if the first noise William heard was some other explosion, when was the elevator shaft jet fuel explosion?

William, do you think that scenario is a possibility? (We conversed at Ground Zero once and you described smelling kerosene after the Felipe David incident.)

Another thing that people here have been confused about is that your earlier reports don't seem to describe an explosion. Are you saying that you were reporting explosions in early interviews, but that those descriptions were edited out?

Edit: very sorry to hear about the loss of your child.
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Old 24th April 2007, 07:38 PM   #24
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I'm sorry to hear about the loss of you and your wife's baby, I did not know about that. My sister miscarried in her first pregnancy, I know a bit of how you and your wife must feel.

Like I said before, I really don't care about your finances, I only brought it up in speculation of why you say you believe what you do. There's no reason to have a face-to-face meeting to talk about this, I have never met a single person from this forum in over 4 years of posting.

There's been questions put to you about the explosions you heard and why you think they preceded the plane strike and why you think they weren't caused by the fuel spilling down the elevator shafts. Many people reported smelling jet fuel on the lower floors, did you?
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Old 24th April 2007, 07:44 PM   #25
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William....I'm so sorry about you and you're wife's terrible loss.

If you don't wish to debate here, of course you don't have to. I'm just asking if you believe the Bush administration was behind 9/11 or if you believe it was 19 foreign terrorists.
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Old 24th April 2007, 07:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
<snip>I really hope this isn't from Roxette.
Consider your hopes assuaged. I have no knowledge of and have never heard of Roxette.

My parents used to pluck this line from an old song and sing it in the midst of conversation in the context of poking lighthearted fun at each other when circumstances were such that it fit. I always knew that it was a giggle between them and I always liked the line, but I didn't know where it came from for years. When I was old enough to think to ask them, they told me that it was a line from a Skeeter Davis song from the early 60s.

(Apparently, it was also done by a band called Patience and Prudence in 1956)
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Old 24th April 2007, 07:55 PM   #27
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Sorry to hear about the loss William. It's a shame we didn't get to have further discussion about 9/11, and I do hope you return to post again one day.

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Old 24th April 2007, 08:04 PM   #28
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26 posts in this thread

3 (by my count) question Rodriguez's financial motives

The rest ask for clarification of his account on 9/11.


He comes in, replies only to the 3 about the finances, disregards the 23 asking for clarification, and declares that he can post no further.

Yes, he's a hero. And yes, like so many truthers, he's absolutely infuriating to try to get actual, detailed information from. If he's waiting for a thread with 100% positive tone to reply (rather than the, what, 88% we managed here) then I fear we'll never gain useful information from him. And that is tragic.
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Old 24th April 2007, 08:09 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by William_Rodriguez View Post
Lashl, obviously think it is not a loss for me to open a dialogue so on that note, I will wait until Randi put an event together were I can meet personally with all of you and answer your questions face to face. God bless you all.
William, I'm glad I got to meet you when I did. It is highly unlikely that a face-to-face meeting is going to happen with a group of JREF forum members who have questions for you. Members here are from around the world.

I respectfully suggest that the internet is by far the easiest and most efficient way to relay your story to skeptics here, if that is your desire. Is it?
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Old 24th April 2007, 08:42 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by William_Rodriguez View Post
<snip>Lashl, obviously think it is not a loss for me to open a dialogue so on that note, I will wait until Randi put an event together were I can meet personally with all of you and answer your questions face to face. God bless you all.
Terribly sorry to hear about the miscarriage. Having had one myself, I can certainly sympathize. It is a difficult and sad experience. That said, I don't know why you raised that here within your first three posts on the forum, in a thread completely unrelated to that topic, and in a forum in which you said you were not going to participate unless there was a "change of attitude" towards you and your various inconsistent statements. You know, everyone has personal issues and personal tragedies. It is just not often that they are raised in unrelated threads for no apparent reason around here.

As for your expectation that Mr. Randi should "put an event together where [you] can personally meet with" skeptics to answer questions face to face, sorry, but again it just seems like you're running away from answering legitimate questions and that you are expecting far more than you are entitled to expect. You seem to have no problem posting your views all over the internet - as evidenced by your various websites and your posts on other forums - when you know that your audience is predisposed to accept what you say without question or when you can control the content of response. Yet, when you expect to be confronted and questioned about your various versions of events and inconsistencies, you suddenly require a different format?

Like I said earlier, you exhibited some bravery on September 11, 2001, but that does not make your subsequent stories and inconsistencies immune from scrutiny. Nor does it render your erroneous interpretations of events accurate. Nor does it cause critical thinkers to suspend their rational and critical thinking skills.

When you are ready to respond to legitimate questions about the various versions of events that you have given, and the apparent inconsistencies contained therein, I am sure that many here will be pleased to engage in discussion with you.

As an aside, I edited my prior post before I posted it, to remove a line about name-dropping because I thought that maybe it was out of line and that maybe I was reading too much into your first post, but now I wish I had not edited it out because your latter post tends to indicate that I was right the first time.

Your words and your accounts will either rise or fall on their own, Willie. You should not have to invoke James Randi's name to try to bolster your words. In fact, invoking his name in the way that you did (repeatedly) only makes it look as though you do not have the courage of your convictions, and makes it look as though you think that by invoking his name, you should somehow be shielded from legitimate questions, shielded from critical assessment, shielded from rational thinking, and somehow get a pass from skeptics.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
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Old 24th April 2007, 08:47 PM   #31
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Mr. Rodriguez

I would also like to add my interest in hearing your story as well as seeing if you can address some of the issues that others have raised.

I would think that of all places- you should feel welcome here. I mean, you got a direct line to the guy upstairs.

I can also speak to the excellent job the moderators do. They are far more fair than sometimes I wish they were and I have no doubt that they would give you the attention and respect you deserve.

That being said I look forward to your responses.
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Old 24th April 2007, 09:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
I have often wondered that. If he was in the basement, how the hell would he be able to tell exactly when the plane hit? I would imagine the plane hitting would sound exactly like an explosion.
You're kidding right?

All this supposed admiration and respect for 9/11 heroes and you have the audacity to ask such an accusatory and downright silly question?

I get the impression that none of you have heard him tell his story in person.

Although English is his second language he explains it quite well.

Of course Willie refers to it as "the plane" when he tells the story because obviously NOW he knows it was the plane.

But he is quite descriptive when he explains how he hears a loud and strong explosion in the basement below him and then moments later heard and felt an explosion at the top of the building.

Willie was no tourist. He knew that building like the back of his hand. You don't think he could definitively tell the difference between an explosion a single floor below him compared to one almost 100 floors up?

Do you think he is lying when he tells you the explosion below him came FIRST?

This is really the only point that needs to be discussed because he is quite certain the explosion below him came first so this single fact alone is proof that it didn't come from the plane's impact and therefore HAD to have been from pre-planted explosives.

Unless you consider Willie a liar and a conspiracy profiteer.

Or like you all seem to think of Lagasse, Brooks, and Turcios; completely mistaken about an extremely simple and definitive detail.
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Old 24th April 2007, 09:08 PM   #33
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How many explosions in the building had he experienced in the past, to make him an expert on where they were happening?
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Old 24th April 2007, 09:10 PM   #34
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There's a very easy way to settle this whole basement-bomb theory.

Did this bomb cause any injuries? If so, what kind?

Shrapnal, concusion, burns?
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Old 24th April 2007, 09:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
You're kidding right?

All this supposed admiration and respect for 9/11 heroes and you have the audacity to ask such an accusatory and downright silly question?
Where is the accusation? Where is the silliness? He's asking how you can know what's happening half way up a building while you're in the basement.

Quote:
Of course Willie refers to it as "the plane" when he tells the story because obviously NOW he knows it was the plane.
How? Why can't the alternate explainations offered in this thread be true, especially since they fit with ALL of the other evidence? And his story fits NONE of the other evidence?

Quote:
But he is quite descriptive when he explains how he hears a loud and strong explosion in the basement below him and then moments later heard and felt an explosion at the top of the building.

Willie was no tourist. He knew that building like the back of his hand. You don't think he could definitively tell the difference between an explosion a single floor below him compared to one almost 100 floors up?
So you're saying it was a common experience for him to hear explosions in his time at the World Trade Center? I'd think that would be quite disruptive to the office workers there.

Quote:
Do you think he is lying when he tells you the explosion below him came FIRST?
No one here called him a liar. He can simply be mistaken about a chaotic, traumatic event, as human memory is often imperfect and what he's saying directly conflicts with a gigantic mountain of evidence to the contrary.
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Old 24th April 2007, 09:19 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
Of course Willie refers to it as "the plane" when he tells the story because obviously NOW he knows it was the plane.


Like how Mineta knew they were talking about AA77?



The only interesting thing, from my point of view, is Mr. Rodriguez's account still contains the very specific and precise account of someone entering the room with skin hanging off, talking about an explosion.

Everything else in his account is open to interpretation as he is making judgments based on what he heard that he is not qualified to make. He is also making efforts to estimated precise times and even orders of events - something we know human memory is exceptionally poor at doing (especially after 5 1/2 years).

However this skin hanging off is very specific. They are called "flash burns", they are quite distinct, and they are solely the result of a fuel air explosion - such as from jet fuel igniting. High explosives do not cause these sorts of wounds.

The same wounds were reported amongst a large number of people in both towers both from the impact zones and from explosions associated with the elevator shafts. The same injuries were also witnessed at The Pentagon.

The explosion this man suffered, which caused these injuries, was the jet fuel from AA11 falling down the elevator shafts and igniting. Therefore the sound of this fuel igniting must be one of the sounds Mr Rodriguez heard.

Mr Rodriguez's account continues to support the officially presented account of what happened.

-Gumboot
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Old 24th April 2007, 09:20 PM   #37
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Sorry the truth hurts so much that you feel compelled to lash out so strongly LashL but I am free to post when and where I please.

Bottom line this is the SINGLE point that needs to be discussed if you are going to accept William Rodriguez as an honest witness or a fraud.

If his account is true it is proof that 9/11 was an inside job.

Which came first? The explosion below him or above him?

Surely nobody here would argue that he couldn't tell the difference.

So the only question is whether or not YOU choose to believe Willie when he says the one below him came first.
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Old 24th April 2007, 09:26 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
Bottom line this is the SINGLE point that needs to be discussed if you are going to accept William Rodriguez as an honest witness or a fraud.

Honest witnesses can still be wrong. Your above statement is a false choice fallacy.



Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
If his account is true it is proof that 9/11 was an inside job.

No it isn't.




Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
Surely nobody here would argue that he couldn't tell the difference.

So the only question is whether or not YOU choose to believe Willie when he says the one below him came first.

I choose to believe he can't actually remember. What can be guaranteed - because it is consistent in all of his accounts and collaborated by other testimony - is that the person injured by the explosion from below was injured by a fuel air explosion as a result of jet fuel spilling down the elevator shafts. It was not the result of explosives. Therefore the sound Mr Rodriguez heard below him was the sound of igniting jet fuel.

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Old 24th April 2007, 09:29 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by David Wong View Post
Where is the accusation? Where is the silliness? He's asking how you can know what's happening half way up a building while you're in the basement.
Because the fact that Willie calls it "the plane" now has nothing to do with what he was thinking at the time. It's accusatory because it quite obviously insinuates he is lying.

Quote:

How? Why can't the alternate explainations offered in this thread be true, especially since they fit with ALL of the other evidence? And his story fits NONE of the other evidence?
I have no idea what other explanations you are talking about? How can you possibly explain an explosion in the basement BEFORE the plane hits? Coincidence?

Quote:

So you're saying it was a common experience for him to hear explosions in his time at the World Trade Center? I'd think that would be quite disruptive to the office workers there.
Huh? Where did I say such a thing. I made an obvious point which is that he would obviously tell the differnce between an explosion one floor below him compared to one afterwards almost 100 floors up.

Quote:

No one here called him a liar. He can simply be mistaken about a chaotic, traumatic event, as human memory is often imperfect and what he's saying directly conflicts with a gigantic mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Uh huh. It's always someone "mistaken" or simply another coincidence when it contradicts the official story.
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Old 24th April 2007, 09:32 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
Uh huh. It's always someone "mistaken" or simply another coincidence when it contradicts the official story.
Says the guy who claims hundreds of witnesses at the Pentagon were mistaken because they disagree with his theory

Pathetic.
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