Pentagon Landing Gear Photo Found by Italian Blogger

Brainster · 9th October 2007, 12:09 PM

Here's a terrific find by an Italian blogger who has done excellent work in the past. Outside of a video of the Pentagon strike, this would appear to be the Holy Grail to Pentagon debunkers.

Note: the sourcing of this photo is unclear. It certainly looks very much like the area between the C-Ring and the D-Ring. I am not sure of the angle at which the photo was taken; I suspect it's looking at where the debris piled up against the D-Ring wall.

And the picture clearly shows the landing gear; just compare the two photos at the bottom of the post.

Note: I am not posting the photo here deliberately; please click through and look at the post. Unfortunately the text is in Italian, but you don't need a Babel fish to read the photographs.

Wonderful job by Henry62. If we can confirm a source/photographer it might go a long way towards putting the final nail in the coffin for the Pentagon kooks.

HyJinX · 9th October 2007, 12:11 PM

Let me guess...the CTs will say the word "planted" in 3....2....1....

ref · 9th October 2007, 12:19 PM

Henry's work has always been excellent.

Eckolaker · 9th October 2007, 12:19 PM

No source, no confirmation, no value.

apathoid · 9th October 2007, 12:20 PM

This one is a really good shot. At the bottom right, you see a wheel and brake assembly, the top of a main landing gear strut in the middle, as well as a section of low pressure stator vanes for the engine at the top/middle. Great find from our Italian friends!

Skeptic Ginger · 9th October 2007, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Eckolaker

No source, no confirmation, no value.

See post #2.

Brainster · 9th October 2007, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Eckolaker

No source, no confirmation, no value.

Which is why I'm publicizing it; so we can find the source.

CHF · 9th October 2007, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Eckolaker

No source, no confirmation, no value.

Unless someone were to find wreckage of a missile, of course.

JimBenArm · 9th October 2007, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Eckolaker

No source, no confirmation, no value.

Oh, so predictable!

sinclairmcevoy · 9th October 2007, 12:43 PM

Yeah, this will be just another piece of evidence that can be "explained" away by some CT. After all, there was no plane involved therefore this is just a picture of some wreckage somewhere, but NOT at the pentagon.

Henry62 · 9th October 2007, 12:45 PM

Hi guys,
I received this image with an anonimous message at the beginning of September, after I published my work about UPS in the 81st floor of WTC2.

I asked for other images or at least something that could give me more value to this image.

I had no answer, so I decided to publish this image but paying great attention: I have no proof!

Therefore: "No source, no confirmation, no value".

I asked help to my american friends, like Brainster and others friends of mine.

After publishing my work, I received a comment with this link:

"z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15013&st=60" - (Excuse me, I cannot use links in my post on JREF Forum)

where, on 17th September, was published this image.

I received it before this day, but it is not important for me.

I think the only important thing is to understand if this image is true or false.

I need your help.

Thank you very much.

ps:
a great thanks to Brainster!

h0mesch00led · 9th October 2007, 01:09 PM

hm... good pictures

Unfit4Command · 9th October 2007, 01:29 PM

Looks like cruise missile debris to me.

No, but seriously. It would be great if we could get a source on where this photo is from. I'm not exactly sure where a good place to start from would be...

T.A.M. · 9th October 2007, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Eckolaker

No source, no confirmation, no value.

Welcome to the entire sum of the evidence the truthers put forth.

You must be from the "Jason Bermas" school of truth, where you feel you must be escorted in to see all of the evidence in person before you will even give it notice...lol

TAM

Henry62 · 9th October 2007, 03:10 PM

Hi guys,
I add an English abstract (thanks to Paolo Attivissimo) to my Italian post.

Best wishes from Italy,
Enrico (Henry62)

fezzic · 9th October 2007, 03:18 PM

I found the english section of the blog to be interesting reading.

Bell · 9th October 2007, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by fezzic

I found the english section of the blog to be interesting reading.

Yep, especially the UPS bit. Haven't heard that before. Great research Henry62!

Gravy · 9th October 2007, 06:39 PM

Very interesting find, Henry62. Thanks for sharing it!

Zlaya · 10th October 2007, 02:39 PM

did anyone figure out yet why this plane was allowed to fly in circles above pentagon when 2 other planes have been reported hijacked and crashed?

DGM · 10th October 2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Zlaya

did anyone figure out yet why this plane was allowed to fly in circles above pentagon when 2 other planes have been reported hijacked and crashed?

Your dreaming! Or just a liar.

Cl1mh4224rd · 10th October 2007, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Zlaya

did anyone figure out yet why this plane was allowed to fly in circles above pentagon when 2 other planes have been reported hijacked and crashed?

Yes. Please try to keep up, would you? Or at least stop trolling...

nicepants · 10th October 2007, 03:15 PM

-oops-

T.A.M. · 10th October 2007, 03:29 PM

a circle is 360 degrees, please indicate how many "circles" flight 77 flew over the pentagon.

Thanks

TAM

fezzic · 10th October 2007, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Zlaya

did anyone figure out yet why this plane was allowed to fly in circles above pentagon when 2 other planes have been reported hijacked and crashed?

And just what was anybody going to be able to do? Except in its last moments before it crashed into the Pentagon, I don't think anybody in the immediate area had anything that could have reached up far enough.

Saying it was allowed makes the significant assumption that something could have been done about it.

I anticipate a claim that there was an anti-aircraft defense system deployed around the Pentagon. Am I right?

pomeroo · 11th October 2007, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by DGM

Your dreaming! Or just a liar.

An uninformed liar.

leftysergeant · 11th October 2007, 02:52 AM

If those pictures can be sourced, it would sure go a long way toward shutting the twoofers down.

Though, right now, I would settle for a picture of a thermite cut to show people the difference.

But, then, we are not competing with orderly minds when we encounter the twoofers. If they can't counter your evidence, they will derail the thread. Right, Zlaya?

Soapy Sam · 11th October 2007, 04:13 AM

When I click Apathoid's link in post 5 , I get a GOOGLE error saying my client is forbidden to access the relevant server.
Why would that be? Private or offline server?

timhau · 11th October 2007, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

If those pictures can be sourced, it would sure go a long way toward shutting the twoofers down.

Frankly, the only thing that will shut the hardcore Twoofers down is duct tape.

buka001 · 11th October 2007, 06:02 AM

Is anyone in the process of trying to source the pictures?

What avenues would one have to go down to do this. Wheer did he get it from. Start there maybe?

Must not sit on this one!!

Love to see what the responses to the pic will be.

Oliver · 11th October 2007, 07:09 AM

...And for the Newbies:

3d Reconstruction of Crash:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Witness Accounts describing the impact:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...showtopic=5697
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...ses/crash.html

Big Les · 11th October 2007, 07:43 AM

I agree this should be pursued for verification (after all, that's one of the things that separates sceptics from the truthiness movement). I'm not sure there's much more that can be done though. They're quite tight shots, anonymously submitted. Unless the photographer or someone connected to them comes forward, it could be tricky to do by interpretation alone.

That said, any possibility of tracing the partial number marked on the mini-digger vehicle (239 89X ?)? Or identifying the type and seeing who uses them? In white? With that particular bucket attachment?

Big Les · 11th October 2007, 08:00 AM

Could this be the vehicle, to the right of the yellow crane and with a white-suited guy sitting on it? I think the one in the linked pic is a Bobcat loader with claw-bucket attachment.

Then again the white arm affair on the right side of the new pic's dozer is round in section, where the Bobcat is box-section.

Such vehicles are probably too ubiquitous to prove anything either way on their own, but if someone could confirm what model of loader/dozer was in use that day, and make a positive ID on the one in the photo, that would be a start. If the number (licence plate number or something else?) could be traced (would require police/DMV work I would think) so much the better.

ETA - Found a higher-res version of the image.

Swing Dangler · 11th October 2007, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Here's a terrific find by an Italian blogger who has done excellent work in the past. Outside of a video of the Pentagon strike, this would appear to be the Holy Grail to Pentagon debunkers.

Note: the sourcing of this photo is unclear. It certainly looks very much like the area between the C-Ring and the D-Ring. I am not sure of the angle at which the photo was taken; I suspect it's looking at where the debris piled up against the D-Ring wall.

And the picture clearly shows the landing gear; just compare the two photos at the bottom of the post.

Note: I am not posting the photo here deliberately; please click through and look at the post. Unfortunately the text is in Italian, but you don't need a Babel fish to read the photographs.

Wonderful job by Henry62. If we can confirm a source/photographer it might go a long way towards putting the final nail in the coffin for the Pentagon kooks.

An un-sourced photo showing unidentified plane parts in a pile. Inconclusive and not quite up to debunking standards.
No, what should be shown are the parts numbers from the debris to conclusively link the part to the plane that hit the Pentagon.
Or perhaps video or still photos of the plane on approach and impacting the Pentagon. I think that would be the holy grail for Pentagon debunkers.

Disbelief · 11th October 2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Swing Dangler

An un-sourced photo showing unidentified plane parts in a pile. Inconclusive and not quite up to debunking standards.

You missed where people have asked for a source and that the pictures were posted here hoping to find it.

Originally Posted by Swing

No, what should be shown are the parts numbers from the debris to conclusively link the part to the plane that hit the Pentagon.

Like the FDR?

Originally Posted by Swing

Or perhaps video or still photos of the plane on approach and impacting the Pentagon. I think that would be the holy grail for Pentagon debunkers.

Shutter speeds? Once again, you have nothing.

leftysergeant · 11th October 2007, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Swing Dangler

An un-sourced photo showing unidentified plane parts in a pile. Inconclusive and not quite up to debunking standards.
No, what should be shown are the parts numbers from the debris to conclusively link the part to the plane that hit the Pentagon.
Or perhaps video or still photos of the plane on approach and impacting the Pentagon. I think that would be the holy grail for Pentagon debunkers.

How about one piece of anything that should not be there, like an actually supportable piece of a missile or explosive damage?

And don't give me any of the Killtown/Rumpl4skin/Bunel BS about there not being a hole big enough or no marks on the lawn. And don't lecture us about fire fighting procedures like the Bunel-influenced twoofers love to do.

One thing I did notice that might be a clue. There is a white object in that pile that looks for all the world like a toilet? Would anyone know if this is the type that would be in an airline lavatory? Look down to the right near that landing gear.

Totovader · 11th October 2007, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Swing Dangler

An un-sourced photo showing unidentified plane parts in a pile. Inconclusive and not quite up to debunking standards.
No, what should be shown are the parts numbers from the debris to conclusively link the part to the plane that hit the Pentagon.
Or perhaps video or still photos of the plane on approach and impacting the Pentagon. I think that would be the holy grail for Pentagon debunkers.

I think the point is there is nothing that would shut the no-planers/fake-planer/flyover people up. Even if somehow a photo which is sourced, identified, followed a chain of custody, showing part numbers, serial numbers, has identifiable body parts in the photo, and it's notarized- it still wouldn't be enough.

The fact is that there is nothing disputing this evidence- and if conspiracists held themselves to the same standards that cause them to scoff at obvious evidence such as this- they would realize their argument is entirely irrational and debunks itself.

I happen to disagree with the OP- the Pentagon denialists were buried a long time ago- this photo is just another reason to laugh at how they react to their own cognitive dissonance.

RedIbis · 11th October 2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

How about one piece of anything that should not be there, like an actually supportable piece of a missile or explosive damage?

How about the exit hole in the C ring? Does that look to you like it was created by plane wreckage?

DGM · 11th October 2007, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

How about the exit hole in the C ring? Does that look to you like it was created by plane wreckage?

YES

Spins · 11th October 2007, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

How about the exit hole in the C ring? Does that look to you like it was created by plane wreckage?

What do you think caused the damage at the Pentagon?

DGM · 11th October 2007, 05:55 PM

I can't understand the exit hole bit. If it was caused by a missile wouldn't it have to be an entrance hole? Then if it was an exit hole what happened to the missile? What do you think RedIbis?

9th October 2007, 12:09 PM	#1
Brainster Philosopher Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,063	Pentagon Landing Gear Photo Found by Italian Blogger Here's a terrific find by an Italian blogger who has done excellent work in the past. Outside of a video of the Pentagon strike, this would appear to be the Holy Grail to Pentagon debunkers. Note: the sourcing of this photo is unclear. It certainly looks very much like the area between the C-Ring and the D-Ring. I am not sure of the angle at which the photo was taken; I suspect it's looking at where the debris piled up against the D-Ring wall. And the picture clearly shows the landing gear; just compare the two photos at the bottom of the post. Note: I am not posting the photo here deliberately; please click through and look at the post. Unfortunately the text is in Italian, but you don't need a Babel fish to read the photographs. Wonderful job by Henry62. If we can confirm a source/photographer it might go a long way towards putting the final nail in the coffin for the Pentagon kooks.
Brainster Philosopher Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,063	__________________ 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Check out my (Republican-oriented) Political Blog. Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. Last edited by Brainster; 9th October 2007 at 12:12 PM.

9th October 2007, 12:19 PM	#3
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,538	Henry's work has always been excellent.
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,538	__________________ 9/11 Guide homepage Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

9th October 2007, 12:19 PM	#4
Eckolaker Student Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 31	No source, no confirmation, no value.
Eckolaker Student Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 31

9th October 2007, 12:20 PM	#5
apathoid Government Loyalist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Virgo Supercluster Posts: 2,599	This one is a really good shot. At the bottom right, you see a wheel and brake assembly, the top of a main landing gear strut in the middle, as well as a section of low pressure stator vanes for the engine at the top/middle. Great find from our Italian friends!
	__________________ Nature abhors a moron. -H.L. Mencken

9th October 2007, 12:22 PM	#6
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 19,317	Originally Posted by Eckolaker No source, no confirmation, no value. See post #2.
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (*Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.)

9th October 2007, 12:11 PM	#2
HyJinX Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Beyond the Sun Posts: 1,633	Let me guess...the CTs will say the word "planted" in 3....2....1....
	__________________ What? You pooped in the refrigerator? And you ate the whole... wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? Heck, I'm not even mad; that's amazing. - Ron Burgundy

9th October 2007, 12:23 PM	#7
Brainster Philosopher Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,063	Originally Posted by Eckolaker No source, no confirmation, no value. Which is why I'm publicizing it; so we can find the source.
Brainster Philosopher Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,063	__________________ 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Check out my (Republican-oriented) Political Blog. Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

9th October 2007, 12:35 PM	#8
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,795	Originally Posted by Eckolaker No source, no confirmation, no value. Unless someone were to find wreckage of a missile, of course.

9th October 2007, 12:36 PM	#9
JimBenArm Sir Barbarella of Corndogia Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 7,807	Originally Posted by Eckolaker No source, no confirmation, no value. Oh, so predictable!

9th October 2007, 12:43 PM	#10
sinclairmcevoy Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,572	Yeah, this will be just another piece of evidence that can be "explained" away by some CT. After all, there was no plane involved therefore this is just a picture of some wreckage somewhere, but NOT at the pentagon.

9th October 2007, 12:45 PM	#11
Henry62 Student Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 34	No source, no confirmation, no value. Hi guys, I received this image with an anonimous message at the beginning of September, after I published my work about UPS in the 81st floor of WTC2. I asked for other images or at least something that could give me more value to this image. I had no answer, so I decided to publish this image but paying great attention: I have no proof! Therefore: "No source, no confirmation, no value". I asked help to my american friends, like Brainster and others friends of mine. After publishing my work, I received a comment with this link: "z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15013&st=60" - (Excuse me, I cannot use links in my post on JREF Forum) where, on 17th September, was published this image. I received it before this day, but it is not important for me. I think the only important thing is to understand if this image is true or false. I need your help. Thank you very much. ps: a great thanks to Brainster!
Henry62 Student Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 34	Last edited by Henry62; 9th October 2007 at 01:04 PM.

9th October 2007, 01:09 PM	#12
h0mesch00led Student Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 27	hm... good pictures
h0mesch00led Student Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 27

9th October 2007, 01:29 PM	#13
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	Looks like cruise missile debris to me. No, but seriously. It would be great if we could get a source on where this photo is from. I'm not exactly sure where a good place to start from would be...
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	__________________

9th October 2007, 02:28 PM	#14
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 18,122	Originally Posted by Eckolaker No source, no confirmation, no value. Welcome to the entire sum of the evidence the truthers put forth. You must be from the "Jason Bermas" school of truth, where you feel you must be escorted in to see all of the evidence in person before you will even give it notice...lol TAM
	__________________ "Angry Young Man!" - The truth movement in a phrase, by O&A "His fists in the air, his head in the sand" - Angry Young Man, Billy Joel An English Professor that knew 9/11 from the Truth Movement quotes would conclude that hyperbole, simile, and metaphor caused the towers to collapse. - BigAl

9th October 2007, 03:10 PM	#15
Henry62 Student Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 34	English abstract Hi guys, I add an English abstract (thanks to Paolo Attivissimo) to my Italian post. Best wishes from Italy, Enrico (Henry62)
Henry62 Student Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 34

9th October 2007, 03:18 PM	#16
fezzic Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 403	I found the english section of the blog to be interesting reading.
fezzic Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 403

9th October 2007, 03:26 PM	#17
Bell beautiful freak Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 6,046	Originally Posted by fezzic I found the english section of the blog to be interesting reading. Yep, especially the UPS bit. Haven't heard that before. Great research Henry62!
	__________________ You gotta love cops. Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th; malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty. (George W. Bush)

9th October 2007, 06:39 PM	#18
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,063	Very interesting find, Henry62. Thanks for sharing it!
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

10th October 2007, 02:39 PM	#19
Zlaya Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 313	did anyone figure out yet why this plane was allowed to fly in circles above pentagon when 2 other planes have been reported hijacked and crashed?
Zlaya Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 313

10th October 2007, 02:41 PM	#20
DGM Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 5,301	Originally Posted by Zlaya did anyone figure out yet why this plane was allowed to fly in circles above pentagon when 2 other planes have been reported hijacked and crashed? Your dreaming! Or just a liar.
DGM Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 5,301	__________________ Learn the truth about Richard Gage at http://www.ae911truth.info/ Thanks Boloboffin! "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

10th October 2007, 02:54 PM	#21
Cl1mh4224rd Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Belle Vernon, PA, USA Posts: 4,047	Originally Posted by Zlaya did anyone figure out yet why this plane was allowed to fly in circles above pentagon when 2 other planes have been reported hijacked and crashed? Yes. Please try to keep up, would you? Or at least stop trolling...

10th October 2007, 03:15 PM	#22
nicepants Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,702	-oops-
	__________________ Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen -Einstein #4 on the CIT Enemies List

10th October 2007, 03:29 PM	#23
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 18,122	a circle is 360 degrees, please indicate how many "circles" flight 77 flew over the pentagon. Thanks TAM
	__________________ "Angry Young Man!" - The truth movement in a phrase, by O&A "His fists in the air, his head in the sand" - Angry Young Man, Billy Joel An English Professor that knew 9/11 from the Truth Movement quotes would conclude that hyperbole, simile, and metaphor caused the towers to collapse. - BigAl

10th October 2007, 09:44 PM	#24
fezzic Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 403	Originally Posted by Zlaya did anyone figure out yet why this plane was allowed to fly in circles above pentagon when 2 other planes have been reported hijacked and crashed? And just what was anybody going to be able to do? Except in its last moments before it crashed into the Pentagon, I don't think anybody in the immediate area had anything that could have reached up far enough. Saying it was allowed makes the significant assumption that something could have been done about it. I anticipate a claim that there was an anti-aircraft defense system deployed around the Pentagon. Am I right?
fezzic Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 403

11th October 2007, 01:35 AM	#25
pomeroo Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In a Little Cafe Just the Other Side of the Border Posts: 7,090	Originally Posted by DGM Your dreaming! Or just a liar. An uninformed liar.

11th October 2007, 02:52 AM	#26
leftysergeant Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 6,717	If those pictures can be sourced, it would sure go a long way toward shutting the twoofers down. Though, right now, I would settle for a picture of a thermite cut to show people the difference. But, then, we are not competing with orderly minds when we encounter the twoofers. If they can't counter your evidence, they will derail the thread. Right, Zlaya?

11th October 2007, 04:13 AM	#27
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 18,092	When I click Apathoid's link in post 5 , I get a GOOGLE error saying my client is forbidden to access the relevant server. Why would that be? Private or offline server?
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 18,092

11th October 2007, 04:19 AM	#28
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 3,480	Originally Posted by leftysergeant If those pictures can be sourced, it would sure go a long way toward shutting the twoofers down. Frankly, the only thing that will shut the hardcore Twoofers down is duct tape.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

11th October 2007, 06:02 AM	#29
buka001 Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sunny South Africa Posts: 190	Is anyone in the process of trying to source the pictures? What avenues would one have to go down to do this. Wheer did he get it from. Start there maybe? Must not sit on this one!! Love to see what the responses to the pic will be.
	__________________ Only the dead have seen the end of war!

11th October 2007, 07:43 AM	#31
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 4,661	I agree this should be pursued for verification (after all, that's one of the things that separates sceptics from the truthiness movement). I'm not sure there's much more that can be done though. They're quite tight shots, anonymously submitted. Unless the photographer or someone connected to them comes forward, it could be tricky to do by interpretation alone. That said, any possibility of tracing the partial number marked on the mini-digger vehicle (239 89X ?)? Or identifying the type and seeing who uses them? In white? With that particular bucket attachment?
	__________________ "One of the fundamental freedoms is to write what you like, including nonsense: another, which I am exercising, is to denounce it." -Robert Raikes bshistorian.wordpress.com Last edited by Big Les; 11th October 2007 at 07:53 AM.

11th October 2007, 08:00 AM	#32
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 4,661	Could this be the vehicle, to the right of the yellow crane and with a white-suited guy sitting on it? I think the one in the linked pic is a Bobcat loader with claw-bucket attachment. Then again the white arm affair on the right side of the new pic's dozer is round in section, where the Bobcat is box-section. Such vehicles are probably too ubiquitous to prove anything either way on their own, but if someone could confirm what model of loader/dozer was in use that day, and make a positive ID on the one in the photo, that would be a start. If the number (licence plate number or something else?) could be traced (would require police/DMV work I would think) so much the better. ETA - Found a higher-res version of the image.
	__________________ "One of the fundamental freedoms is to write what you like, including nonsense: another, which I am exercising, is to denounce it." -Robert Raikes bshistorian.wordpress.com Last edited by Big Les; 11th October 2007 at 08:16 AM.

11th October 2007, 11:24 AM	#33
Swing Dangler Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: United States Posts: 1,047	Originally Posted by Brainster Here's a terrific find by an Italian blogger who has done excellent work in the past. Outside of a video of the Pentagon strike, this would appear to be the Holy Grail to Pentagon debunkers. Note: the sourcing of this photo is unclear. It certainly looks very much like the area between the C-Ring and the D-Ring. I am not sure of the angle at which the photo was taken; I suspect it's looking at where the debris piled up against the D-Ring wall. And the picture clearly shows the landing gear; just compare the two photos at the bottom of the post. Note: I am not posting the photo here deliberately; please click through and look at the post. Unfortunately the text is in Italian, but you don't need a Babel fish to read the photographs. Wonderful job by Henry62. If we can confirm a source/photographer it might go a long way towards putting the final nail in the coffin for the Pentagon kooks. An un-sourced photo showing unidentified plane parts in a pile. Inconclusive and not quite up to debunking standards. No, what should be shown are the parts numbers from the debris to conclusively link the part to the plane that hit the Pentagon. Or perhaps video or still photos of the plane on approach and impacting the Pentagon. I think that would be the holy grail for Pentagon debunkers.
	__________________ "I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it."-John SKilling-Head Structural Engineer WTC-1993 Seattle Times

11th October 2007, 11:39 AM	#34
Disbelief Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,461	Originally Posted by Swing Dangler An un-sourced photo showing unidentified plane parts in a pile. Inconclusive and not quite up to debunking standards. You missed where people have asked for a source and that the pictures were posted here hoping to find it. Originally Posted by Swing No, what should be shown are the parts numbers from the debris to conclusively link the part to the plane that hit the Pentagon. Like the FDR? Originally Posted by Swing Or perhaps video or still photos of the plane on approach and impacting the Pentagon. I think that would be the holy grail for Pentagon debunkers. Shutter speeds? Once again, you have nothing.

11th October 2007, 04:34 PM	#35
leftysergeant Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 6,717	Originally Posted by Swing Dangler An un-sourced photo showing unidentified plane parts in a pile. Inconclusive and not quite up to debunking standards. No, what should be shown are the parts numbers from the debris to conclusively link the part to the plane that hit the Pentagon. Or perhaps video or still photos of the plane on approach and impacting the Pentagon. I think that would be the holy grail for Pentagon debunkers. How about one piece of anything that should not be there, like an actually supportable piece of a missile or explosive damage? And don't give me any of the Killtown/Rumpl4skin/Bunel BS about there not being a hole big enough or no marks on the lawn. And don't lecture us about fire fighting procedures like the Bunel-influenced twoofers love to do. One thing I did notice that might be a clue. There is a white object in that pile that looks for all the world like a toilet? Would anyone know if this is the type that would be in an airline lavatory? Look down to the right near that landing gear.
	Last edited by leftysergeant; 11th October 2007 at 04:35 PM. Reason: typos

11th October 2007, 05:07 PM	#36
Totovader Game Warden Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by Swing Dangler An un-sourced photo showing unidentified plane parts in a pile. Inconclusive and not quite up to debunking standards. No, what should be shown are the parts numbers from the debris to conclusively link the part to the plane that hit the Pentagon. Or perhaps video or still photos of the plane on approach and impacting the Pentagon. I think that would be the holy grail for Pentagon debunkers. I think the point is there is nothing that would shut the no-planers/fake-planer/flyover people up. Even if somehow a photo which is sourced, identified, followed a chain of custody, showing part numbers, serial numbers, has identifiable body parts in the photo, and it's notarized- it still wouldn't be enough. The fact is that there is nothing disputing this evidence- and if conspiracists held themselves to the same standards that cause them to scoff at obvious evidence such as this- they would realize their argument is entirely irrational and debunks itself. I happen to disagree with the OP- the Pentagon denialists were buried a long time ago- this photo is just another reason to laugh at how they react to their own cognitive dissonance.
	__________________ "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." --Jonathan Swift Blog - Corrected By Reality. My debunking videos, and philosophy on YouTube Totovader's 9/11 Conspiracy Challenge Still unanswered!