A new debunk of the WTC "power down"

OldTigerCub · 24th October 2007, 05:15 PM

RKOwens4 has posted a new video on Youtube debunking the power down claim made by Scott Forbes. This is just the latest ( that I have seen) in a series of very well done videos explaining away the falacies of the trooth movement.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

JAStewart · 24th October 2007, 05:23 PM

I PM'ed him asking him to come join us be he hasn't replied yet.

CHF · 24th October 2007, 05:24 PM

The "power-down" is one of the dumbest claims I've seen.

Never mind the fact that it doesn't address the other 1 1/2 towers or WTC7...the mere notion that you can rig up even 50 floors of a 110 story building in 36 hours is bloody absurd.

OldTigerCub · 24th October 2007, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by CHF

The "power-down" is one of the dumbest claims I've seen.

Never mind the fact that it doesn't address the other 1 1/2 towers or WTC7...the mere notion that you can rig up even 50 floors of a 110 story building in 36 hours is bloody absurd.

I've noticed that the "power down" isn't mentioned much, probably because it is so easily debunked, though I still see it brought up (usually to change the subject when a troother is losing a debate on a more popular subject)

OldTigerCub · 24th October 2007, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by JAStewart

I PM'ed him asking him to come join us be he hasn't replied yet.

RKOwens4 really does a nice job on his videos, and he seems to know his subject matter and information sources quite well. I think he would feel right at home here at the jref forums.

Unfit4Command · 24th October 2007, 05:51 PM

I've always wondered how Scott Forbes even came to his conclusion of half of the tower being powered down. Did he just make it up?

qarnos · 24th October 2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by JAStewart

I PM'ed him asking him to come join us be he hasn't replied yet.

Did you mention the cookies?

MarkyX · 24th October 2007, 07:18 PM

I never really understood this argument or why bring it up. It's one of the most easiest ones to counter.

All you need is point to the J. Hudson building, say it's the largest steel frame building to be bought down by demos and it took 7 months to rig the empty building. After mentioning this, tell them the Twin Towers are 3 times that height.

The number of times I've seen this dumb argument bought up can be counted on one hand with a missing thumb.

steve s · 24th October 2007, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by qarnos

Did you mention the cookies?

And the fat NWO paychecks?

Steve S.

Mangoose · 24th October 2007, 07:58 PM

I have proof that whole upper 50 floors of the South Tower were NOT powered down during the timeframe specified by Scott Forbes. Maybe the floors he was on (giving him the benefit of the doubt), but certainly not all of them, much less the other two towers.

I'll post the evidence here when I have time.

BenBurch · 24th October 2007, 08:05 PM

How could you down the upper half of South Tower without downing the TV transmitters?

CurtC · 24th October 2007, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Mangoose

I have proof that whole upper 50 floors of the South Tower were NOT powered down during the timeframe specified by Scott Forbes...
I'll post the evidence here when I have time.

Don't leave us hanging like that Fermat guy did...

njslim · 24th October 2007, 08:10 PM

Having been involved in several power downs can tell you that it is major operation
Multiple emails are sent out warning everybody what is going on, equipment which
has to be powered must be isolated. That only one person, Scott Forbes, was aware
of this is totally amazing. What about the electricians? Considering that many of
the tenants were financial or securities which had 24 hour operations someone had to
know .

Gravy · 24th October 2007, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

How could you down the upper half of South Tower without downing the TV transmitters?

They were on the north tower.

BenBurch · 24th October 2007, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

They were on the north tower.

So they were in the same tower as Windows To The World? Hard to keep straight which tower was which sometimes. Sorry!

Gravy · 24th October 2007, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

So they were in the same tower as Windows To The World? Hard to keep straight which tower was which sometimes. Sorry!

Yes, Windows On the World was in the north tower, the observation deck on the south.

OldTigerCub · 24th October 2007, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mangoose

I have proof that whole upper 50 floors of the South Tower were NOT powered down during the timeframe specified by Scott Forbes. Maybe the floors he was on (giving him the benefit of the doubt), but certainly not all of them, much less the other two towers.

I'll post the evidence here when I have time.

Part of the evidence he presents (briefly) in the video shows the towers well illuminated during the time in question.
I have to admit that I was(shamelessly

) putting in a plug for RKOwens4, though. My impression is that he puts a lot of research into finding those obscure and forgotten shots that put the subject at hand to rest.

Mangoose · 24th October 2007, 11:11 PM

Old Tiger Club: I don't think RKOwens is necessarily claiming that the shot of the lit WTC was taken that weekend. I have tried to find photos of the period in question and haven't found any confirmed examples yet.

TriskettheKid · 24th October 2007, 11:14 PM

I think the point he was making was that if, for some reason, half of a tower was dark, there would be pictures, as it would have been unusual.

Mangoose · 24th October 2007, 11:29 PM

Okay, here is what I found.

There are at least two witnesses who recall the Observation Deck being open (with power) during the same time-frame that Scott Forbes claims the upper half of WTC2 was powered down.

One website has a personal account by Melissa Papke who relates her visit to the Observation Deck on that "power-down" weekend (9/8/01). She visited the WTC with her friends late in the day, after the last ferry to the Statue of Liberty had departed (i.e. squarely within the period Scott Forbes placed the power downs). She related this: "Brian held my hands in his and stared into my eyes trying to keep me calm as the express elevator climbed and climbed to the observation deck on the 107th floor. We walked around, looked through the telescopes, watched a movie on the history of the buildings, and even pressed a couple of commemorative pennies in one of those little machines". Clearly, there was power on the 107th Floor at that time.

Another blog presents this photo of a ticket to the Observation Deck during the very time that Forbes claims there was no power to that part of the building:

Also, there was a public free outdoor festival at 7:00 pm on 9/8/2001 in the World Trade Center Plaza between the two buildings (New York Times, September 7, 2001, E-3), featuring the Twyla Tharp dance troupe. So if there was a power down and massive preparation for building demolition, it would've been in the midst of this public event.

I still would love to see a photo of the buildings at night on 9/8/01 as that would clearly show if any floors, and which floors, experienced a shut-down of power.

leftysergeant · 25th October 2007, 01:49 AM

You might look again at the Naudet film. They kept referring to the towers as a back ground, with time stamps.

funk de fino · 25th October 2007, 02:36 AM

To concur with Mangoose

My friends were up the towers during this time, Scott Forbes has been given the oppurtunity to modify his claim to only the floors he was on but he fails. He is a woo and is lying. He goes to truther meetings in the UK and has done another interview for AJ recently even though it is claimed he is keeping his head down because he is being harrassed at work.

BenBurch · 25th October 2007, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Mangoose

Okay, here is what I found.

There are at least two witnesses who recall the Observation Deck being open (with power) during the same time-frame that Scott Forbes claims the upper half of WTC2 was powered down....

NOMINATED!

What great physical evidence.

You rock!

MarkyX · 25th October 2007, 07:24 AM

Even though the powerdown isn't a good argument to begin with, it's rather interesting that we now have evidence proving that once again, the 9/11 deniers are using fraudulent sources.

BenBurch · 25th October 2007, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by MarkyX

Even though the powerdown isn't a good argument to begin with, it's rather interesting that we now have evidence proving that once again, the 9/11 deniers are using fraudulent sources.

If one of them told me it was a sunny day, I'd have to look outside first.

Mangoose · 25th October 2007, 08:11 AM

Thanks Benburch!

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

You might look again at the Naudet film. They kept referring to the towers as a back ground, with time stamps.

I don't recall seeing time stamps on the film themselves, and I just checked the 9/11 DVD and again I don't see any video the towers on the evening of 9/8/01. The wonderful shot of them lit at night at 20:27 was dated to 9/3/01. Then there is a shot across the water that appears at 22:08, but it is undated though it appears immediately before 9/11/01, and I suspect it might be stock footage.

nicepants · 25th October 2007, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by njslim

Having been involved in several power downs can tell you that it is major operation
Multiple emails are sent out warning everybody what is going on, equipment which
has to be powered must be isolated. That only one person, Scott Forbes, was aware
of this is totally amazing. What about the electricians? Considering that many of
the tenants were financial or securities which had 24 hour operations someone had to
know .

Njslim is right on the money here. I work in an office building much smaller than the towers, but any power downs (even for just a single floor) require multiple notifications & sign offs by anyone that may be affected. We even have extra people on call during those times just in case there are problems. The paper trail for a multi-floor power down would be enormous. The fact that Mr. Forbes has been unable to produce any documentation of such speaks volumes more than his claims.

BigAl · 25th October 2007, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by njslim

Having been involved in several power downs can tell you that it is major operation
Multiple emails are sent out warning everybody what is going on, equipment which
has to be powered must be isolated. That only one person, Scott Forbes, was aware
of this is totally amazing. What about the electricians? Considering that many of
the tenants were financial or securities which had 24 hour operations someone had to
know .

What he said. I managed 24x7 IT ops in 4 big buildings in Manhattan over the years. Just doing paperwork to get to the loading docks any time or for freight elevator access off hours gets lots of people involved. There are always other trades around and everyone notices strangers, if only to protect union turf. Even powered-down, nobody gets into IT areas without a tenant's IT person on hand. tenants have their own alarm services that don't depend on the building security system

BenBurch · 25th October 2007, 12:47 PM

Any any power outage of a major Bank's IT infrastructure would require the bank to transfer operations to its emergency site. No way you can shut down a bank even on a weekend.

Unfit4Command · 25th October 2007, 01:54 PM

I seem to remember hearing and seeing a video that was filmed that weekend, clearly showing lights on the top floors of the South Tower. I think it was a music video, but I can't remember for sure.

deep · 25th October 2007, 02:19 PM

This is absurd - nothing has been "debunked" in that video.

For starters, there are only a handful of workers who are especially sensitive to a power-down over the weekend, some of which are server administrators (or DBAs). On top of that, it's rather convenient to say "nobody else reported it" when 3,000 people died that day, a good portion of which worked in the twin towers.

Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing.

deep · 25th October 2007, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by nicepants

Njslim is right on the money here. I work in an office building much smaller than the towers, but any power downs (even for just a single floor) require multiple notifications & sign offs by anyone that may be affected. We even have extra people on call during those times just in case there are problems. The paper trail for a multi-floor power down would be enormous. The fact that Mr. Forbes has been unable to produce any documentation of such speaks volumes more than his claims.

That's a convenient point of view, considering the man's office was reduced to dust & small debris. Do you think people carry paperwork like that in their wallets?

CHF · 25th October 2007, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by deep44

Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing.

We've got people who saw the power being ON when Forbes said it was OFF.

Does that count?

e^n · 25th October 2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by deep44

That's a convenient point of view, considering the man's office was reduced to dust & small debris. Do you think people carry paperwork like that in their wallets?

I'm sure they back up their emails, disaster recovery is important at this level of IT infrastructure.

While I agree that this has hardly been 'debunked' it has at least been shown to be barely credible and in need of some corroboration.

deep · 25th October 2007, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by e^n

I'm sure they back up their emails, disaster recovery is important at this level of IT infrastructure.

While I agree that this has hardly been 'debunked' it has at least been shown to be barely credible and in need of some corroboration.

Seriously, an email proves nothing. Even if he did produce one, not even I would acknowledge that it proves anything one way or the other. Give me about 10 minutes and I could paste an email (with full headers) into this thread that shows GWB inviting me to go golfing with him & Saddam in Antarctica next Tuesday.

deep · 25th October 2007, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by CHF

We've got people who saw the power being ON when Forbes said it was OFF.

Does that count?

Who are these people? I don't see any names... plus, keep in mind, backup power is usually used for a subset of lights (which are relatively low power), so I'd be interested in hearing exactly how they came to the conclusion that the power was on.

e^n · 25th October 2007, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by deep44

Seriously, an email proves nothing. Even if he did produce one, not even I would acknowledge that it proves anything one way or the other. Give me about 10 minutes and I could paste an email (with full headers) into this thread that shows GWB inviting me to go golfing with him & Saddam in Antarctica next Tuesday.

Indeed you could, and not only would that email contain the source email address and therefore a name to investigate, it would also reveal IP addresses and server software. Do you happen to know what internal version of which MTA people in the towers used?

Faking an email is one thing, reliably faking an email is another.

Bell · 25th October 2007, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by deep44

Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing.

Only one man claiming a power down doesn't prove anything either. Would have been kind of obvious, no? Half of the South Tower left in dark. And yet, noone of the millions of people in Manhattan or the other 4 burroughs that weekend talk about it.

DGM · 25th October 2007, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by deep44

This is absurd - nothing has been "debunked" in that video.

For starters, there are only a handful of workers who are especially sensitive to a power-down over the weekend, some of which are server administrators (or DBAs). On top of that, it's rather convenient to say "nobody else reported it" when 3,000 people died that day, a good portion of which worked in the twin towers.

Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing.

Tell me again? What was the purpose of this "power down" of half (or less) of one tower?

funk de fino · 25th October 2007, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by deep44

Who are these people? I don't see any names... plus, keep in mind, backup power is usually used for a subset of lights (which are relatively low power), so I'd be interested in hearing exactly how they came to the conclusion that the power was on.

My friends were up the observation deck that sunday, you need more than lights for that, I have been up there also and I know what they had up there. Strange not one person has come along and said the observation deck was closed that weekend?

It was a very popular attraction when i was there, must have been thousands a day.

Unless you are calling me and my friends liars then there is your proof he is lying about a total power down above the 50th floor (his actual claim).

24th October 2007, 05:23 PM	#2
JAStewart Graduate Poster Tagger Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Shetland Islands Posts: 1,523	I PM'ed him asking him to come join us be he hasn't replied yet.
	__________________ Ignorance and google is a horrible combination. - BigAl Argumentum ad YouTubeum - sts60

24th October 2007, 05:43 PM	#4
OldTigerCub Striped Shapeshifting Reptoid Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Steeler Nation, Pa. Posts: 1,633	Originally Posted by CHF The "power-down" is one of the dumbest claims I've seen. Never mind the fact that it doesn't address the other 1 1/2 towers or WTC7...the mere notion that you can rig up even 50 floors of a 110 story building in 36 hours is bloody absurd. I've noticed that the "power down" isn't mentioned much, probably because it is so easily debunked, though I still see it brought up (usually to change the subject when a troother is losing a debate on a more popular subject)
	__________________ "Nuts!" - General Anthony C. McAuliffe

24th October 2007, 05:47 PM	#5
OldTigerCub Striped Shapeshifting Reptoid Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Steeler Nation, Pa. Posts: 1,633	Originally Posted by JAStewart I PM'ed him asking him to come join us be he hasn't replied yet. RKOwens4 really does a nice job on his videos, and he seems to know his subject matter and information sources quite well. I think he would feel right at home here at the jref forums.
	__________________ "Nuts!" - General Anthony C. McAuliffe

24th October 2007, 05:51 PM	#6
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	I've always wondered how Scott Forbes even came to his conclusion of half of the tower being powered down. Did he just make it up?
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	__________________

24th October 2007, 06:54 PM	#7
qarnos Cold-hearted skeptic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Melbourne, Austrylia Posts: 1,985	Originally Posted by JAStewart I PM'ed him asking him to come join us be he hasn't replied yet. Did you mention the cookies?
	__________________ "In the twenty years since the Chernobyl tragedy, the world's worst nuclear accident, there have been nearly [FILL IN ALARMIST AND ARMAGEDDONIST FACTOID HERE]" - Greenpeace press release.

24th October 2007, 05:24 PM	#3
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,875	The "power-down" is one of the dumbest claims I've seen. Never mind the fact that it doesn't address the other 1 1/2 towers or WTC7...the mere notion that you can rig up even 50 floors of a 110 story building in 36 hours is bloody absurd.

24th October 2007, 07:18 PM	#8
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,158	I never really understood this argument or why bring it up. It's one of the most easiest ones to counter. All you need is point to the J. Hudson building, say it's the largest steel frame building to be bought down by demos and it took 7 months to rig the empty building. After mentioning this, tell them the Twin Towers are 3 times that height. The number of times I've seen this dumb argument bought up can be counted on one hand with a missing thumb.
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,158	__________________ MarkyX's Haunted Bloghouse - Read my boredom

24th October 2007, 07:19 PM	#9
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,670	Originally Posted by qarnos Did you mention the cookies? And the fat NWO paychecks? Steve S.
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,670	__________________ "Nature abhors a moron." -- H. L. Mencken

24th October 2007, 07:58 PM	#10
Mangoose Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 923	I have proof that whole upper 50 floors of the South Tower were NOT powered down during the timeframe specified by Scott Forbes. Maybe the floors he was on (giving him the benefit of the doubt), but certainly not all of them, much less the other two towers. I'll post the evidence here when I have time.
Mangoose Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 923

24th October 2007, 08:05 PM	#11
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,222	How could you down the upper half of South Tower without downing the TV transmitters?
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24th October 2007, 08:09 PM	#12
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,758	Originally Posted by Mangoose I have proof that whole upper 50 floors of the South Tower were NOT powered down during the timeframe specified by Scott Forbes... I'll post the evidence here when I have time. Don't leave us hanging like that Fermat guy did...
	__________________ Is there a God? Find the answer at The Official God FAQ.

24th October 2007, 08:10 PM	#13
njslim Muse Join Date: May 2006 Location: Jooisy - You got a problem with that? Posts: 967	Having been involved in several power downs can tell you that it is major operation Multiple emails are sent out warning everybody what is going on, equipment which has to be powered must be isolated. That only one person, Scott Forbes, was aware of this is totally amazing. What about the electricians? Considering that many of the tenants were financial or securities which had 24 hour operations someone had to know .

24th October 2007, 08:22 PM	#14
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by BenBurch How could you down the upper half of South Tower without downing the TV transmitters? They were on the north tower.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

24th October 2007, 08:25 PM	#15
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,222	Originally Posted by Gravy They were on the north tower. So they were in the same tower as Windows To The World? Hard to keep straight which tower was which sometimes. Sorry!
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24th October 2007, 09:11 PM	#16
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by BenBurch So they were in the same tower as Windows To The World? Hard to keep straight which tower was which sometimes. Sorry! Yes, Windows On the World was in the north tower, the observation deck on the south.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

24th October 2007, 10:17 PM	#17
OldTigerCub Striped Shapeshifting Reptoid Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Steeler Nation, Pa. Posts: 1,633	Originally Posted by Mangoose I have proof that whole upper 50 floors of the South Tower were NOT powered down during the timeframe specified by Scott Forbes. Maybe the floors he was on (giving him the benefit of the doubt), but certainly not all of them, much less the other two towers. I'll post the evidence here when I have time. Part of the evidence he presents (briefly) in the video shows the towers well illuminated during the time in question. I have to admit that I was(shamelessly ) putting in a plug for RKOwens4, though. My impression is that he puts a lot of research into finding those obscure and forgotten shots that put the subject at hand to rest.
	__________________ "Nuts!" - General Anthony C. McAuliffe

24th October 2007, 11:11 PM	#18
Mangoose Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 923	Old Tiger Club: I don't think RKOwens is necessarily claiming that the shot of the lit WTC was taken that weekend. I have tried to find photos of the period in question and haven't found any confirmed examples yet.
Mangoose Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 923

24th October 2007, 11:14 PM	#19
TriskettheKid Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,432	I think the point he was making was that if, for some reason, half of a tower was dark, there would be pictures, as it would have been unusual.

24th October 2007, 11:29 PM	#20
Mangoose Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 923	Okay, here is what I found. There are at least two witnesses who recall the Observation Deck being open (with power) during the same time-frame that Scott Forbes claims the upper half of WTC2 was powered down. One website has a personal account by Melissa Papke who relates her visit to the Observation Deck on that "power-down" weekend (9/8/01). She visited the WTC with her friends late in the day, after the last ferry to the Statue of Liberty had departed (i.e. squarely within the period Scott Forbes placed the power downs). She related this: "Brian held my hands in his and stared into my eyes trying to keep me calm as the express elevator climbed and climbed to the observation deck on the 107th floor. We walked around, looked through the telescopes, watched a movie on the history of the buildings, and even pressed a couple of commemorative pennies in one of those little machines". Clearly, there was power on the 107th Floor at that time. Another blog presents this photo of a ticket to the Observation Deck during the very time that Forbes claims there was no power to that part of the building: Also, there was a public free outdoor festival at 7:00 pm on 9/8/2001 in the World Trade Center Plaza between the two buildings (New York Times, September 7, 2001, E-3), featuring the Twyla Tharp dance troupe. So if there was a power down and massive preparation for building demolition, it would've been in the midst of this public event. I still would love to see a photo of the buildings at night on 9/8/01 as that would clearly show if any floors, and which floors, experienced a shut-down of power.
Mangoose Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 923

25th October 2007, 01:49 AM	#21
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	You might look again at the Naudet film. They kept referring to the towers as a back ground, with time stamps.

25th October 2007, 02:36 AM	#22
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 10,795	To concur with Mangoose My friends were up the towers during this time, Scott Forbes has been given the oppurtunity to modify his claim to only the floors he was on but he fails. He is a woo and is lying. He goes to truther meetings in the UK and has done another interview for AJ recently even though it is claimed he is keeping his head down because he is being harrassed at work.
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

25th October 2007, 07:13 AM	#23
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,222	Originally Posted by Mangoose Okay, here is what I found. There are at least two witnesses who recall the Observation Deck being open (with power) during the same time-frame that Scott Forbes claims the upper half of WTC2 was powered down.... NOMINATED! What great physical evidence. You rock!
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25th October 2007, 07:24 AM	#24
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,158	Even though the powerdown isn't a good argument to begin with, it's rather interesting that we now have evidence proving that once again, the 9/11 deniers are using fraudulent sources.
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,158	__________________ MarkyX's Haunted Bloghouse - Read my boredom

25th October 2007, 07:35 AM	#25
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,222	Originally Posted by MarkyX Even though the powerdown isn't a good argument to begin with, it's rather interesting that we now have evidence proving that once again, the 9/11 deniers are using fraudulent sources. If one of them told me it was a sunny day, I'd have to look outside first.
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25th October 2007, 08:11 AM	#26
Mangoose Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 923	Thanks Benburch! Originally Posted by leftysergeant You might look again at the Naudet film. They kept referring to the towers as a back ground, with time stamps. I don't recall seeing time stamps on the film themselves, and I just checked the 9/11 DVD and again I don't see any video the towers on the evening of 9/8/01. The wonderful shot of them lit at night at 20:27 was dated to 9/3/01. Then there is a shot across the water that appears at 22:08, but it is undated though it appears immediately before 9/11/01, and I suspect it might be stock footage.
Mangoose Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 923

25th October 2007, 08:20 AM	#27
nicepants Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,720	Originally Posted by njslim Having been involved in several power downs can tell you that it is major operation Multiple emails are sent out warning everybody what is going on, equipment which has to be powered must be isolated. That only one person, Scott Forbes, was aware of this is totally amazing. What about the electricians? Considering that many of the tenants were financial or securities which had 24 hour operations someone had to know . Njslim is right on the money here. I work in an office building much smaller than the towers, but any power downs (even for just a single floor) require multiple notifications & sign offs by anyone that may be affected. We even have extra people on call during those times just in case there are problems. The paper trail for a multi-floor power down would be enormous. The fact that Mr. Forbes has been unable to produce any documentation of such speaks volumes more than his claims.
	__________________ Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen -Einstein

25th October 2007, 12:44 PM	#28
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,398	Originally Posted by njslim Having been involved in several power downs can tell you that it is major operation Multiple emails are sent out warning everybody what is going on, equipment which has to be powered must be isolated. That only one person, Scott Forbes, was aware of this is totally amazing. What about the electricians? Considering that many of the tenants were financial or securities which had 24 hour operations someone had to know . What he said. I managed 24x7 IT ops in 4 big buildings in Manhattan over the years. Just doing paperwork to get to the loading docks any time or for freight elevator access off hours gets lots of people involved. There are always other trades around and everyone notices strangers, if only to protect union turf. Even powered-down, nobody gets into IT areas without a tenant's IT person on hand. tenants have their own alarm services that don't depend on the building security system
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,398

25th October 2007, 12:47 PM	#29
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,222	Any any power outage of a major Bank's IT infrastructure would require the bank to transfer operations to its emergency site. No way you can shut down a bank even on a weekend.
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25th October 2007, 01:54 PM	#30
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	I seem to remember hearing and seeing a video that was filmed that weekend, clearly showing lights on the top floors of the South Tower. I think it was a music video, but I can't remember for sure.
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25th October 2007, 02:19 PM	#31
deep Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,367	This is absurd - nothing has been "debunked" in that video. For starters, there are only a handful of workers who are especially sensitive to a power-down over the weekend, some of which are server administrators (or DBAs). On top of that, it's rather convenient to say "nobody else reported it" when 3,000 people died that day, a good portion of which worked in the twin towers. Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing.
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25th October 2007, 02:22 PM	#32
deep Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,367	Originally Posted by nicepants Njslim is right on the money here. I work in an office building much smaller than the towers, but any power downs (even for just a single floor) require multiple notifications & sign offs by anyone that may be affected. We even have extra people on call during those times just in case there are problems. The paper trail for a multi-floor power down would be enormous. The fact that Mr. Forbes has been unable to produce any documentation of such speaks volumes more than his claims. That's a convenient point of view, considering the man's office was reduced to dust & small debris. Do you think people carry paperwork like that in their wallets?
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25th October 2007, 02:25 PM	#33
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,875	Originally Posted by deep44 Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing. We've got people who saw the power being ON when Forbes said it was OFF. Does that count?

25th October 2007, 02:26 PM	#34
e^n Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 810	Originally Posted by deep44 That's a convenient point of view, considering the man's office was reduced to dust & small debris. Do you think people carry paperwork like that in their wallets? I'm sure they back up their emails, disaster recovery is important at this level of IT infrastructure. While I agree that this has hardly been 'debunked' it has at least been shown to be barely credible and in need of some corroboration.
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25th October 2007, 02:29 PM	#35
deep Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,367	Originally Posted by e^n I'm sure they back up their emails, disaster recovery is important at this level of IT infrastructure. While I agree that this has hardly been 'debunked' it has at least been shown to be barely credible and in need of some corroboration. Seriously, an email proves nothing. Even if he did produce one, not even I would acknowledge that it proves anything one way or the other. Give me about 10 minutes and I could paste an email (with full headers) into this thread that shows GWB inviting me to go golfing with him & Saddam in Antarctica next Tuesday.
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25th October 2007, 02:30 PM	#36
deep Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,367	Originally Posted by CHF We've got people who saw the power being ON when Forbes said it was OFF. Does that count? Who are these people? I don't see any names... plus, keep in mind, backup power is usually used for a subset of lights (which are relatively low power), so I'd be interested in hearing exactly how they came to the conclusion that the power was on.
deep Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,367