Just bought Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You To Know About

[robinson]

heh.

But we veer dangerously off topic, having fun and all that. Back to woo bashing.

[Hardenbergh]

Originally Posted by Slimething

Are you taking calcium supplements for a diagnosed condition? If not, the calcium is probably doing nothing for you. You may want to save your money. If you feel well enough to go without it for a prolonged period due to its expense, then you don't really need it. There are other sources of calcium you could take that wouldn't cost as much and would be just as effective, that is, not at all.

I'm at an age when women begin to worry about bone loss.

Quote:

CaCO3 should not cause stomach upset in an appropriate dose. Perhaps you took too much of the other product.

I took the recommended dose for my weight.

Quote:

If that were true, you'd find soil in there as well. The calcium is to attract women shoppers due to the fear of osteoporosis although I've read that calcium given in this form is not that effective at treating that disease. The carbonate part is a natural buffer that would counteract too much acidity in the stomach. If you're sensitive to carbonate because it's too stong, you can try bicarbonate which is less alkaline but also a very good buffer.

I took calcium citrate from Solgar briefly before trying EZorb. Most doctors also recommend taking Vitamin D but the information about EZorb claims that Vitamin D is not needed because of the already excellent absorption rate.

Quote:

Hardenbergh, if you have a condition that you are treating, I would advise you to consult a physician before continuing to self-medicate. If you have no condition, I would stop taking these preparations because they may actually be damaging you. Medications, even over-the-counter stuff, is designed to treat ailments, not to maintain health. Your body was not evolved to accept these stressors. Sure, the excess calcium may pass right through your body but, while your duodenal lining is in contact with this salt at this high concentration, you may be experiencing discomfort due to irritaton of the bowel, not the stomach.

Otherwise, if you're going to believe in woo, calcium and water-soluble vitamins (not E!) are the way to go. You won't lose your life savings with these conmen, although your discretionary income will be seriously reduced. Just don't encourage others to do the same. That's the only real potential harm in all this. The person you're exhorting to self-medicate may really need to see a physician.

EZorb also claims that their product doesn't cause kidney stones like some forms of calcium.

Quote:

C. What are the benefits that I can get only from EZorb Calcium but not from others?

EZorb Calcium has created a gap between itself and others with its unmatched high absorption rate and high bioavailability. Its unique approach of increasing bone density by stimulating osteoblasts activities and enhancing collagen production also sets it apart from competition.*

There are many benefits you can only get from EZorb but not others. To name a few, choosing EZorb Calcium will help prevent G.I. distress, kidney stones or small intestine stones. Using it will also help protect vitamin stability.

EZorb Calcium can be most effectively used for the following symptoms*:

• osteoporosis,
• loss of bone mass,
• arthritis (osteoarthritis),
• joint and cartilage damage,
• bone fracture,
• bone spur,
• fibromyalgia,
• back pain / lower back pain,
• nerve / muscle pain, and
• boost energy.

http://www.elixirindustry.com/ezorb/faq/c.htm

[Professor Yaffle]

And don't eat too many calcium carbonate antacids along with dairy products...

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl...&q=milk+alkali

[Slimething]

Originally Posted by Hardenbergh

I'm at an age when women begin to worry about bone loss.

Worry about bone loss and bone loss are not the same thing. I suspect you are treating the worry and not the bone loss. Discuss the problem with a doctor. That's the only way you're going to get to an effective preventative regimen for the problem. Wandering about the internet looking for companies that make specious claims is no way to counter the problem you're worried about.

Quote:

I took the recommended dose for my weight.

As the dosage of the product is not based on anything substantive, I would reduce the dose and see if you feel better. As I've written before, I would reduce it to zero until I consulted a physician.

Quote:

I took calcium citrate from Solgar briefly before trying EZorb. Most doctors also recommend taking Vitamin D but the information about EZorb claims that Vitamin D is not needed because of the already excellent absorption rate.

EZorb also claims that their product doesn't cause kidney stones like some forms of calcium.

"Most doctors" is classical weasel-wording and the term is undefined. Most doctors out of how many consulted? What was the question? Were the options limited?

I followed your link. I found no scientific support for their claiims but I did note that their claims were preceded by an asterisk. I looked for the corresponding footnote for quite a while until I noticed it in a place that it really didn't belong (at the end of the yellow sidebar). Here is what the footnote said (I've enlarged and darkened the text to make it more legible):

Quote:

*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

Another claim that caught my eye was that of stimulating osteoblasts, which is a drug effect and would draw regulation from federal authorities if it were true. As the claims have not been reviewed by the FDA, they carry no weight whatsoever.

I've seen enough to convince me that you've fallen for a health scam. Go see a doctor.

[Slimething]

Originally Posted by robinson

heh.

But we veer dangerously off topic, having fun and all that. Back to woo bashing.

Translation: I can't meet any of the various scientific challenges posed to me or my claims. heh.

[Locknar]

Hardenbergh - I'd have to second what Slimething is saying; self medicating is doomed to fail. Make an apointment & see a Doctor.

[HeyLeroy]

Trudeau uses the word 'virtually' on almost every page.

I also think it funny that in the first few pages he recommends that a person should wear white clothing all the time, as it somehow affects your health.

What colour is the suit he's wearing on the cover?

I've personally spoken with pharmacists to have them remove this worthless piece of tripe from their shelves, and just the other day I convinced a used-book store owner to remove it as well.

[fls]

Originally Posted by robinson

While I recognize you are being sarcastic, or maybe funny, it is worth noting that this is just a joke response, there is no truth in it at all.

Oops. You guessed wrong. Don't feel bad, I did too. I guessed that you had posted the list to be silly - that you knew enought to realize the claims were as redundant as saying "breathing air improves your memory".

I like to make my jokes true - funnier, more of a challenge.

You got the second part right, though. I do tend to eschew emoticons.

Quote:

Fixed it for you.

You're so sweet.

Linda

[Hardenbergh]

Originally Posted by Slimething

Worry about bone loss and bone loss are not the same thing. I suspect you are treating the worry and not the bone loss. Discuss the problem with a doctor. That's the only way you're going to get to an effective preventative regimen for the problem. Wandering about the internet looking for companies that make specious claims is no way to counter the problem you're worried about.

Most doctors are so busy (at least the doctor I'm seeing) don't seem to make a lot of recommendations. I've taken in a couple of bottles (supplements that I was taking in the past) and he showed very little interest and didn't offer an opinion one way or the other. Specialists may offer more advice. I've heard many people comment that pharmacists know more about drugs and supplements as physicians are too busy with their practice to do a lot of research.

Quote:

As the dosage of the product is not based on anything substantive, I would reduce the dose and see if you feel better. As I've written before, I would reduce it to zero until I consulted a physician.

This is the dosage information.

http://www.elixirindustry.com/ezorb/ezorbdosage.htm

Quote:

Another claim that caught my eye was that of stimulating osteoblasts, which is a drug effect and would draw regulation from federal authorities if it were true. As the claims have not been reviewed by the FDA, they carry no weight whatsoever.

I've seen enough to convince me that you've fallen for a health scam. Go see a doctor.

Stimulating osteoblasts? Is there a danger?

[Locknar]

Originally Posted by HeyLeroy

I also think it funny that in the first few pages he recommends that a person should wear white clothing all the time, as it somehow affects your health.

It provides energy, so the claim goes.

[Locknar]

Originally Posted by Hardenbergh

Most doctors are so busy (at least the doctor I'm seeing) don't seem to make a lot of recommendations. I've taken in a couple of bottles (supplements that I was taking in the past) and he showed very little interest and didn't offer an opinion one way or the other.

I'd say time to see/get a new Doctor; busy or not, they should make time to address any medical issues/concerns/questions you may have.

If it is something you are worried about enough to take over the counter suppliments, it is serious enough to warrent the Dr's attention.

[Slimething]

Originally Posted by Hardenbergh

Most doctors are so busy (at least the doctor I'm seeing) don't seem to make a lot of recommendations. I've taken in a couple of bottles (supplements that I was taking in the past) and he showed very little interest and didn't offer an opinion one way or the other. Specialists may offer more advice. I've heard many people comment that pharmacists know more about drugs and supplements as physicians are too busy with their practice to do a lot of research.

I am 100% with Locknar here. Ditch this doctor and find a decent one. Doing research to stay current and benefit their patients is a primary part of the practice of medicine. Don't give this type of physician your money either!

Quote:

Stimulating osteoblasts? Is there a danger?

Yes, if it were true but I don't think it's true. If it were true, you'd probably be having joint problems caused by bone spurs by now. You would probably also be having tendinitis and early onset of arthritis from excessive and uncontrolled bone formation. (Osteoblasts are the cells within bones that secrete the calcium salts that make up bone. So tickling them into increased activity without controlling their level of activity would have disastrous results.)

ETA: Yes, it's true that pharmacists know more about medications than physicians. However, you need to have a diagnosis of problem/no problem and, if there is a problem, how severe before anyone can consider medication. Once you have that, you can/should consult with a pharmacist to see if they have any better suggestion for medication and take that back to the MD if they do.

[fls]

Originally Posted by Garrette

Now I know you are definitely MY one true love.

Curse the damnable Atlantic!

Oooo, does that mean you have an accent?

I do like a man with an accent.

Linda

[Slimething]

Originally Posted by fls

Oooo, does that mean you have an accent?

I do like a man with an accent.

Linda

Ahem, how about a really creepy accent?

[fls]

Originally Posted by Slimething

Ahem, how about a really creepy accent?

What, like Transylvanian?

Linda

[Slimething]

Originally Posted by fls

What, like Transylvanian?

Linda

My kind relies on pressing tendrils tighly against the body and pulling them away rapidly. The "snapping" of our slime coating creates a lound popping sound that can be most pleasing, if one is used to it.

Whatcha say?

[kswarthog]

I agree. For the life of me, I can't figure out why this guy isn't in prison. Let me take my natural herbal supplements and think on it a bit. I'm sure it will come to me.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by fls

Oooo, does that mean you have an accent?

I do like a man with an accent.

Linda

Depending on my environs, Kentucky Southern.

Think of a bad British actor attempting a stereotypical Texan accent. Speed up the words, slow down the sentences, add a twang, and mush it together.

As an example,

Louisville is pronounced (sometimes) "Luh-vull", but fast.

My town (just outside Luh-vull) is New Albany, but I say "Nawbny".

And I pronounce my response to this statement of yours:

Originally Posted by fls I swear really I didn't make this up

Garrette, my love, why do you make me wait? The fire is lit and the wine is ready. Come warm me with the sweet sweet breath of your Kentucky manliness.

is:

"Ummm....uh....hoooooboy.....wheeze wheeze.....YEEE HA!"

I assume you are melting in anticipation.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by Slimething

Ahem, how about a really creepy accent?

Back off, slugboy; I have salt.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by Slimething

My kind relies on pressing tendrils tighly against the body and pulling them away rapidly. The "snapping" of our slime coating creates a lound popping sound that can be most pleasing, if one is used to it.

Whatcha say?

Sounds like Friday nights at the swimmin' hole.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by kswarthog

I agree. For the life of me, I can't figure out why this guy isn't in prison. Let me take my natural herbal supplements and think on it a bit. I'm sure it will come to me.

Why are you derailing this back to the topic?

Caincha see ah've gone a courtin'?

[fls]

Originally Posted by Slimething

My kind relies on pressing tendrils tighly against the body and pulling them away rapidly. The "snapping" of our slime coating creates a lound popping sound that can be most pleasing, if one is used to it.

Whatcha say?

D'oh! I didn't think to look at your name.

Depends. What does it sound like when you say "I do like a bit of Gorgonzola"?

Linda

[fls]

Originally Posted by Garrette

Depending on my environs, Kentucky Southern.

Think of a bad British actor attempting a stereotypical Texan accent. Speed up the words, slow down the sentences, add a twang, and mush it together.

As an example,

Louisville is pronounced (sometimes) "Luh-vull", but fast.

My town (just outside Luh-vull) is New Albany, but I say "Nawbny".

And I pronounce my response to this statement of yours:
is:

"Ummm....uh....hoooooboy.....wheeze wheeze.....YEEE HA!"

I assume you are melting in anticipation.

I am melting, but that may have something to do with where I live at present....

Southeastern, US....

We're not separated by an ocean? This could spell trouble.

Linda

[fls]

Originally Posted by Garrette

Why are you derailing this back to the topic?

Caincha see ah've gone a courtin'?

You're going to get me in trouble with the mods per this new membership agreement. I don't like being in trouble.

Linda

[robinson]

A semi-woo friend just dropped off a copy of the book for me to read, and advise them on it.

Oh lard, I actually had to skim through the thing. It didn't take long to discover the woo of all woo's is contained in this book.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Robinson, there is hope for you yet.

[robinson]

I just checked this entire topic, and it seems the most woo of woo's was never mentioned. I found it on page 175, at the end of the chapter called, "How to never get sick again". A quick check with Google confirms what I suspected.

For those who know, no persuading will be needed. He says, at the end of a list of things to reduce stress:

36. Do dianetic$/$cient0logy

AAAHHHH!!! NOOOOOOO!!! Make it stop!

I could go on and on about the multiple falsehoods and outright lies, but I consider bashing the obvious woo a waste of time. The 100 page story about bread is self contradictory, pathetic almost. Page 463-563.

Worst offenders, he doesn't mention any genetic disorders, much less treatments for them, he claims ALL drugs are bad and make you sick. He is selling a Utopian dream that if you eat right and avoid toxins and stress, you will never get sick (or die either). Diabetes is due to liver problems and Candida. Grrr. But since I wasted an hour of my life on this crap, I will continue.

While about half his advice is actually good advice, (eat healthy, don't smoke, exercise, relax, lose weight, fresh fruit rather than vitamin pills, laugh, dance, get out of debt, etc etc), the overwhelming distortions and falsehoods poison the well. (And that $cient0logy thing)

It actually is a guidebook for some of the most popular fears and paranoias that people have about Government and Drug companies, as well as a vast long winded tract about his own troubles trying to save the world and heal us all.

But the $cient0logy thing pretty much ended the matter right off the bat.

Did I mention he is promoting $cient0logy?

Page 175- "...the simplest, most complete and effective system of eliminating psychosomatic illness, traumas and emotional issues is the procedure of Dianetic$ and $cient0logy auditing."

(skeptigirl, you claimed to be familiar with this book, how did you miss that????)

Its not all crap, but a meal that is half crap, is still crap.

(edit) I mispelled several words on purpose, to avoid Google linking my post to, well, them.

[Eos of the Eons]

Don't give that idiot trudeau any credit for the good advice in his book. there is not an original though in there anywhere, and the doctors he bashes give that same good advice on exercise and good nutrition. The food guide even does. Even the bad advice is everywhere on the internet. He just stuffed it all in a book and sold a pack of lies mixed with regular advice on diet and exercise.

[Olowkow]

I just bought a copy of "Things you shouldn't stick up your nose or anus". Just wondering what you PSEUSOSKEPTICS think of it.

[Eos of the Eons]

Aren't you a cute little trudeau fan.
Any book is better than the one that is the topic of this thread.

[mayday]

Kevin Trudeau is a proven fraud.

[robinson]

The Chapter on greed and fraud is interesting. He admits to having been in prison for fraud, which was because of greed. He then explains greed, having first hand knowledge of it. Of all the stuff in the book, it seems the most honest and real.

He made a point that I had never thought of before. Why would somebody who already has millions of dollars risk prison for a few more? Why do we hear about famous people, rich people, either going to prison, or going on trial for crimes?

He makes a valid point in regards to this. It is because they are addicted to making money. No matter how much they have, they want more. They risk prison, just to make a little more. Even when they already have more money than most of us can imagine having.

When somebody who has a lot of money, who has been to prison for fraud, talks about greed and crime, they probably know what they are saying.

Interesting.

Two other points. The extreme anti-drug stance of this book just screams $sciento...y
And why didn't anybody point the $sciento...y connection when bashing this before? I am a bit disappointed in my fellow skeptics, especially the ones who claimed to be familiar with the book or the author.

It isn't like it is any secret. But noooooo, I had to actually read some of the book to find out.

Also, very first chapter, in which he explains why he shouldn't be alive. He claims he had Mitral valve prolapse, and it is incurable/untreatable, and he went and got some alternative cell injection that cured him, and that started his journey to expose the corruption and greed in modern medicine and so on and so forth.

Well, I checked, and Mitral valve prolapse is treatable. So he starts off with a whopper of a lie.

But this book is symptomatic of a huge mind set out there. I talk to people every day, real people, ordinary people, and there is a huge amount of suspicion and distrust of Government, Medicine, Technology, Multinational Corporations, all kinds of stuff.

I can't tell if Kevin is a true believer, or a clever Con man. The book reads like a true believer. But from experience, I know that a good Con sounds like a true believer, so who knows? Is it a dangerous book?

No doubt. People with genetic disorders may be be convinced there conditions are caused by taking drugs, and stop taking them, and die. Which leads to the ever present conundrum. Do we really want people that stupid to continue to live? Is it really all bad? If you are so dumb you would listen to a book written by a $cientol....s rather than your Doctor, do we really need you in the Gene pool?

[bruto]

I'm Reminded of Ambrose Bierce's definition of homeopathy as "

Quote:

A theory and practice of medicine which aims to cure the diseases of fools. As it does not cure them, and does sometimes kill them, it is ridiculed by the thoughtless, but recommended by the wise."(The Enlarged Devil's Dictionary)

[Eos of the Eons]

Robinson, he just wants you to believe he is a reformed con man, so you can buy into his next con. It's like a guy saying he killed people, okay, so I won't again, so buy my stuff cuz I'm not really a murderer anymore so now you can trust me even though I murdered for completely selfish reasons and didn't give a damn about the victims as long as I could profit from the deaths. But I promise I'm reformed!

That appeal to emotion is just another con tactic, and there's no surprise he attempts to answer to criticism that way.

There is NO risk to selling a book of lies. You can say whatever you want to in a book, even repeat conspiracies about the government and big pharma. There is freedom of expression/speech/etc. He did risk something by lying about there being actual cures being in the book, and he knew the risk. However, being the gambling con man that he is, he accepted the risk because the profits are much higher than the fines he gets for lying about what the book actually contains when he is selling it on TV.

So the lawsuits focus on what his lies are about the product/book, since he is LYING about what the book contains, and that at least IS illegal. The book is self-published using the profits of his past cons, so he alone is responsible for lying about what is published.

http://www.infomercialwatch.org/reports/nycpb.shtml

He even lies about his own endorsers for crying out loud:

Quote:

The ad gives the false impression that Tammy Faye opposes chemotherapy in favor of the ‘natural cures’ in Trudeau’s book. A representative for Tammy Faye said that is not true and that she is starting chemotherapy again.

For anyone to defend such a goon is beyond my comprehension.

[robinson]

I hope you don't think I am defending him! My opening shot was pointing out the woo of woos.

[Eos of the Eons]

Yeah my post wasn't just aimed at you robinson. There are other that seem to think we're just "pseudoskeptics"... like...Olowkow

I'm relieved to see you've read the book and then explored the claims. I can't believe Trudeau wrote about conditions that are treatable and tried to claim they weren't, etc. Incredible, but not surprising coming from Trudeau.

I've tried to read all of it, but the stupid hurt too much. I think there's enough evidence and other reader reviews to go on as well. For anyone to call Trudeau critics "pseudoskeptics" by claiming we haven't read the book in its entirety is like saying we're pseudoskeptics about fire if we don't stand in one and get really burned. Harumph.

[Olowkow]

Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons

Yeah my post wasn't just aimed at you robinson. There are other that seem to think we're just "pseudoskeptics"... like...Olowkow

Harumph.

The "pseusoskeptics" was a joke, from a misspelling by T'ai Chi. Sorry the humor was lost on you.

Quote:

T'ai Chi: I read the disclaimer in the front. Seems pseusoskeptics ignore that when they read it.

No problemo!

[Eos of the Eons]

Yeah, not being on forums much lately causes me to miss stuff. Putting a
/sarcasm
or something behind posts like that will keep people like me from missing the humour. Please do forgive my misunderstanding of your intent. I'm sure you know we're used to spelling errors around here, especially ones not in scare quotes.

You post is indeed hilarious, very, reading it from this now informed angle.