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webfusion · 17th January 2009, 04:05 PM

Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire.

So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time.

Now what?

pvicente · 17th January 2009, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire.

So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time.

Now what?

I guess that it's back to the blockade, slowly starving Gava and preventing the Palestinians from building a functioning state.
It looks like there is no way out of this for the Palestinians, if they try to fight they will be crushed by the IDF, if they try to be peaceful it will take time to persuade Israel of their good faith (and that's assuming that Israel will like whatever government they come up with enough to give them a chance) and until then they will starve.

JihadJane · 17th January 2009, 05:05 PM

Did Israel lose again?

Policenaut · 17th January 2009, 05:10 PM

Sure but the Palestinian people are the real winners here. Hamas has done well for them.

mortimer · 17th January 2009, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by pvicente

I guess that it's back to the blockade, slowly starving Gava and preventing the Palestinians from building a functioning state.
It looks like there is no way out of this for the Palestinians, if they try to fight they will be crushed by the IDF, if they try to be peaceful it will take time to persuade Israel of their good faith (and that's assuming that Israel will like whatever government they come up with enough to give them a chance) and until then they will starve.

Certainly they've never tried the latter, have they?

yairhol · 17th January 2009, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire.

So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time.

Now what?

Hamas have not agreed to the cease-fire and their leaders are after more blood-shed:

Hamas: Resistance will continue

Gilad Shalit is not part of any visible negotiations although there may be talks which we are not aware of (I doubt it).

European leaders to help stop Gaza smuggling - really? I don't see that happening. How many here believe the U.N. will fire on Hamas terrorists trying to smuggle weaponry into Gaza? I doubt it.

Webfusion, you ask now what?
The answer is unfortunately nobody knows.

Skeptic · 17th January 2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

I guess that it's back to the blockade, slowly starving Gava and preventing the Palestinians from building a functioning state.

No, it's the Hamas and PLO's "Destroy Israel / kill the Jews" ideology and currupt, cynical "steal everything you can, leave the masses in poverty, blame the Jews" leadership that is preventing THAT. Previously to that it was the Arab world's similar view and practices.

That's why the Palestinians don't have a functioning state since 1936, 1948, 1967, the 1970s, 2001, and 2005. To name a few dates.

Whatever makes you think a "functioning Palestinian state" will "function" in anything else except killing Jews and terrorist attacks?

Oliver · 17th January 2009, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

No, it's the Hamas and PLO's "Destroy Israel / kill the Jews" ideology and currupt, cynical "steal everything you can, leave the masses in poverty, blame the Jews" leadership that is preventing THAT. Previously to that it was the Arab world's similar view and practices.

That's why the Palestinians don't have a functioning state since 1936, 1948, 1967, the 1970s, 2001, and 2005. To name a few dates.

Whatever makes you think a "functioning Palestinian state" will "function" in anything else except killing Jews and terrorist attacks?

May I ask how you are able to determine how a Palestinian John Doe thinks and feels about the unfair world being built directly around him?

Don't you agree that the reason for Hamas success is based on the lack of alternatives to Israel's pressure upon the Palestinians in Gaza? - And if not, what would you do as a Palestinian within Gaza?

WildCat · 17th January 2009, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire.

So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time.

Now what?

My guess is a resumption of the assault as soon as Hamas does something stupid, which probably won't be long.

gtc · 18th January 2009, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

May I ask how you are able to determine how a Palestinian John Doe thinks and feels about the unfair world being built directly around him?

His post was about their leaders.

pvicente · 18th January 2009, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

No, it's the Hamas and PLO's "Destroy Israel / kill the Jews" ideology and currupt, cynical "steal everything you can, leave the masses in poverty, blame the Jews" leadership that is preventing THAT. Previously to that it was the Arab world's similar view and practices.

That's why the Palestinians don't have a functioning state since 1936, 1948, 1967, the 1970s, 2001, and 2005. To name a few dates.

Whatever makes you think a "functioning Palestinian state" will "function" in anything else except killing Jews and terrorist attacks?

Well, I've got this crazy idea that the average Palestinian might be a person like you and me, capable of living peacefully with his neighbors if he is given a chance.
If any Palestinian state must exist to kill Jews as you say, then why haven't we heard about attacks from the West Bank?

KoihimeNakamura · 18th January 2009, 04:15 AM

When they take over the government, they might even be of greater relevance.

Trojan_Jockey · 18th January 2009, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Did Israel lose again?

Yup, with victories like this Hamas is going from strength to strength. Hang on, Israel still exists......

webfusion · 18th January 2009, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

My guess is a resumption of the assault as soon as Hamas does something stupid, which probably won't be long.

"Hamas and the factions announce a ceasefire in Gaza starting immediately and give Israel a week to withdraw," said Ayman Taha (in Cairo).
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056490.html
A leader of the militant Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip on Sunday said his group had also agreed to stop attacks on Israelis for a period of one week, following Israel's declaration of the unilateral cease-fire.

Hours before these announcements were made, salvos of rockets & mortars were launched at Israel on Saturday and Sunday. Israel Air Force aircraft attacked those rocket launchers in Gaza.
"We hit a launcher that had fired rockets into Israel," an IDF spokesman said.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056448.html

There were also sporadic exchanges of fire in Gaza reported during Sunday, as the IDF defended its positions against various Jihadists who used mortars and were shooting at them. The Israeli troops returned fire and hit the group of gunmen, the army said, while directing artillery and aircraft to strike back. An IDF spokesman said that the troops responded according to the rules of engagement, and vowed that any assault on soldiers in Gaza would meet with a harsh response.

Things are fragile. Very fragile.

This photo was snapped earlier today at the Gaza-Israel border --- it is quite impressive.
(sorry mods, for violating Rule 4, but this was just too good)

(AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)

FireGarden · 19th January 2009, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire.

So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time.

Now what?

I guess it's back to where things were: how to maintain a ceasefire.

Maybe I should just put this in my sig:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1048931.html

Quote:

In Zakai’s view, Israel’s central error during the tahadiyeh, the six-month period of relative truce that formally ended on Friday, was failing to take advantage of the calm to improve, rather than markedly worsen, the economic plight of the Palestinians of the Strip.

[...] “We could have eased the siege over the Gaza Strip, in such a way that the Palestinians, Hamas, would understand that holding their fire served their interests. But when you create a tahadiyeh, and the economic pressure on the Strip continues, it’s obvious that Hamas will try to reach an improved tahadiyeh, and that their way to achieve this, is resumed Qassam fire.

Quote:

This photo was snapped earlier today at the Gaza-Israel border --- it is quite impressive.

I like rainbows.

ddt · 19th January 2009, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by FireGarden

I guess it's back to where things were: how to maintain a ceasefire.

Maybe I should just put this in my sig:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1048931.html

Or this article from today's Haaretz: "Israel is good at using sticks, but its carrot approach needs work":

Quote:

There will never be a way out of this conflict until we offer the Palestinians some carrots: hope and belief. The sheer despair and hopelessness of many well-meaning Palestinians, in both Gaza and the West Bank, bodes ill for anyone who cares about Middle East peace. They just don't believe it's possible any more.

balrog666 · 19th January 2009, 12:56 PM

Now I see why Hamas needed a time-out:

Hamas torturing Fatah members in Gaza

Hamas-gangs-kill-Fatah-members-in-GAZA

Fatah_warns_Hamas_against_targeting_its_members_in _Gaza__Extra__

geni · 19th January 2009, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

My guess is a resumption of the assault as soon as Hamas does something stupid, which probably won't be long.

Doubtful. First another major operation before the next election would not look good. Secondly Isreal is still working on figureing out obama.

17th January 2009, 04:05 PM	#1
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Gaza Ops Concluded -- IDF Ceases Fire Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire. So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time. Now what?

17th January 2009, 04:51 PM	#2
pvicente New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 13	Originally Posted by webfusion Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire. So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time. Now what? I guess that it's back to the blockade, slowly starving Gava and preventing the Palestinians from building a functioning state. It looks like there is no way out of this for the Palestinians, if they try to fight they will be crushed by the IDF, if they try to be peaceful it will take time to persuade Israel of their good faith (and that's assuming that Israel will like whatever government they come up with enough to give them a chance) and until then they will starve.
pvicente New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 13

17th January 2009, 05:05 PM	#3
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 43,044	Did Israel lose again?
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH

17th January 2009, 05:56 PM	#5
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 3,479	Originally Posted by pvicente I guess that it's back to the blockade, slowly starving Gava and preventing the Palestinians from building a functioning state. It looks like there is no way out of this for the Palestinians, if they try to fight they will be crushed by the IDF, if they try to be peaceful it will take time to persuade Israel of their good faith (and that's assuming that Israel will like whatever government they come up with enough to give them a chance) and until then they will starve. Certainly they've never tried the latter, have they?
	__________________ "why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid

17th January 2009, 09:32 PM	#6
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,403	Originally Posted by webfusion Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire. So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time. Now what? Hamas have not agreed to the cease-fire and their leaders are after more blood-shed: Hamas: Resistance will continue Gilad Shalit is not part of any visible negotiations although there may be talks which we are not aware of (I doubt it). European leaders to help stop Gaza smuggling - really? I don't see that happening. How many here believe the U.N. will fire on Hamas terrorists trying to smuggle weaponry into Gaza? I doubt it. Webfusion, you ask now what? The answer is unfortunately nobody knows.
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,403

17th January 2009, 05:10 PM	#4
Policenaut Infidel Defiler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Shadow Moses Island Posts: 2,193	Sure but the Palestinian people are the real winners here. Hamas has done well for them.

17th January 2009, 09:42 PM	#7
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Quote: I guess that it's back to the blockade, slowly starving Gava and preventing the Palestinians from building a functioning state. No, it's the Hamas and PLO's "Destroy Israel / kill the Jews" ideology and currupt, cynical "steal everything you can, leave the masses in poverty, blame the Jews" leadership that is preventing THAT. Previously to that it was the Arab world's similar view and practices. That's why the Palestinians don't have a functioning state since 1936, 1948, 1967, the 1970s, 2001, and 2005. To name a few dates. Whatever makes you think a "functioning Palestinian state" will "function" in anything else except killing Jews and terrorist attacks?

17th January 2009, 09:49 PM	#8
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,370	Originally Posted by Skeptic No, it's the Hamas and PLO's "Destroy Israel / kill the Jews" ideology and currupt, cynical "steal everything you can, leave the masses in poverty, blame the Jews" leadership that is preventing THAT. Previously to that it was the Arab world's similar view and practices. That's why the Palestinians don't have a functioning state since 1936, 1948, 1967, the 1970s, 2001, and 2005. To name a few dates. Whatever makes you think a "functioning Palestinian state" will "function" in anything else except killing Jews and terrorist attacks? May I ask how you are able to determine how a Palestinian John Doe thinks and feels about the unfair world being built directly around him? Don't you agree that the reason for Hamas success is based on the lack of alternatives to Israel's pressure upon the Palestinians in Gaza? - And if not, what would you do as a Palestinian within Gaza?
	__________________

17th January 2009, 10:37 PM	#9
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,476	Originally Posted by webfusion Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire. So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time. Now what? My guess is a resumption of the assault as soon as Hamas does something stupid, which probably won't be long.

18th January 2009, 12:35 AM	#10
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,114	Originally Posted by Oliver May I ask how you are able to determine how a Palestinian John Doe thinks and feels about the unfair world being built directly around him? His post was about their leaders.

18th January 2009, 04:05 AM	#11
pvicente New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 13	Originally Posted by Skeptic No, it's the Hamas and PLO's "Destroy Israel / kill the Jews" ideology and currupt, cynical "steal everything you can, leave the masses in poverty, blame the Jews" leadership that is preventing THAT. Previously to that it was the Arab world's similar view and practices. That's why the Palestinians don't have a functioning state since 1936, 1948, 1967, the 1970s, 2001, and 2005. To name a few dates. Whatever makes you think a "functioning Palestinian state" will "function" in anything else except killing Jews and terrorist attacks? Well, I've got this crazy idea that the average Palestinian might be a person like you and me, capable of living peacefully with his neighbors if he is given a chance. If any Palestinian state must exist to kill Jews as you say, then why haven't we heard about attacks from the West Bank?
pvicente New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 13

18th January 2009, 04:15 AM	#12
KoihimeNakamura Creativity Murderer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Graham, WA Posts: 6,928	When they take over the government, they might even be of greater relevance.
	__________________ Don't mind me.

18th January 2009, 05:25 AM	#13
Trojan_Jockey Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 276	Originally Posted by JihadJane Did Israel lose again? Yup, with victories like this Hamas is going from strength to strength. Hang on, Israel still exists......

18th January 2009, 06:07 AM	#14
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Announcement in Cairo Originally Posted by WildCat My guess is a resumption of the assault as soon as Hamas does something stupid, which probably won't be long. "Hamas and the factions announce a ceasefire in Gaza starting immediately and give Israel a week to withdraw," said Ayman Taha (in Cairo). http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056490.html A leader of the militant Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip on Sunday said his group had also agreed to stop attacks on Israelis for a period of one week, following Israel's declaration of the unilateral cease-fire. Hours before these announcements were made, salvos of rockets & mortars were launched at Israel on Saturday and Sunday. Israel Air Force aircraft attacked those rocket launchers in Gaza. "We hit a launcher that had fired rockets into Israel," an IDF spokesman said. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056448.html There were also sporadic exchanges of fire in Gaza reported during Sunday, as the IDF defended its positions against various Jihadists who used mortars and were shooting at them. The Israeli troops returned fire and hit the group of gunmen, the army said, while directing artillery and aircraft to strike back. An IDF spokesman said that the troops responded according to the rules of engagement, and vowed that any assault on soldiers in Gaza would meet with a harsh response. Things are fragile. Very fragile. This photo was snapped earlier today at the Gaza-Israel border --- it is quite impressive. (sorry mods, for violating Rule 4, but this was just too good) (AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)
	Last edited by webfusion; 18th January 2009 at 06:25 AM.

19th January 2009, 01:59 AM	#15
FireGarden Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Spannungsbogen -- without a visa Posts: 5,043	Originally Posted by webfusion Everyone has been clamoring for Israel to stop Operation Cast Lead and declare a cease-fire. So, that's exactly what the IDF has done, as of 2 a.m. local time. Now what? I guess it's back to where things were: how to maintain a ceasefire. Maybe I should just put this in my sig: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1048931.html Quote: In Zakai’s view, Israel’s central error during the tahadiyeh, the six-month period of relative truce that formally ended on Friday, was failing to take advantage of the calm to improve, rather than markedly worsen, the economic plight of the Palestinians of the Strip. [...] “We could have eased the siege over the Gaza Strip, in such a way that the Palestinians, Hamas, would understand that holding their fire served their interests. But when you create a tahadiyeh, and the economic pressure on the Strip continues, it’s obvious that Hamas will try to reach an improved tahadiyeh, and that their way to achieve this, is resumed Qassam fire. Quote: This photo was snapped earlier today at the Gaza-Israel border --- it is quite impressive. I like rainbows.
	__________________ When Americans talk about freedom, it’s our secular code word for salvation. There’s no salvation outside the church; there’s no freedom outside the American way of life. -- James Carroll B'tselem Tony Karon's blog

19th January 2009, 05:41 AM	#16
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,406	Originally Posted by FireGarden I guess it's back to where things were: how to maintain a ceasefire. Maybe I should just put this in my sig: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1048931.html Or this article from today's Haaretz: "Israel is good at using sticks, but its carrot approach needs work": Quote: There will never be a way out of this conflict until we offer the Palestinians some carrots: hope and belief. The sheer despair and hopelessness of many well-meaning Palestinians, in both Gaza and the West Bank, bodes ill for anyone who cares about Middle East peace. They just don't believe it's possible any more.
	__________________ Proud member of the Solipsistic Autosycophant's Group

19th January 2009, 12:56 PM	#17
balrog666 Eigenmode: Cynic Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,546	Now I see why Hamas needed a time-out: Hamas torturing Fatah members in Gaza Hamas-gangs-kill-Fatah-members-in-GAZA Fatah_warns_Hamas_against_targeting_its_members_in _Gaza__Extra__
	__________________ A person who won't think has no advantage over one who can't think. - (paraphrased) Mark Twain Diversity--When all colors and creeds believe exactly as liberals want them to. Or Else! -Coyote

19th January 2009, 01:07 PM	#18
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,643	Originally Posted by WildCat My guess is a resumption of the assault as soon as Hamas does something stupid, which probably won't be long. Doubtful. First another major operation before the next election would not look good. Secondly Isreal is still working on figureing out obama.