Wasabi scalp-hurting

Dorfl · 14th July 2009, 07:05 AM

Eating sushi, I've noticed a strange thing about wasabi. If I use too much, my scalp starts hurting, like being jabbed by a lot of tiny needles. Others have described the same sensation as well. I've never had the same thing happen with any other type of spice though.

Does anyone know why that is? Does some component of wasabi somehow irritate the scalp-hurty nerve, or would you get the same effect using enough of any spice, but wasabi is easier to overdose, or what?

~enigma~ · 14th July 2009, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dorfl

scalp-hurty nerve?

That would be medical terminology right?

Dorfl · 14th July 2009, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

That would be medical terminology right?

Sorry, I meant the excorio vulnero nerve.

~enigma~ · 14th July 2009, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Dorfl

Sorry, I meant the excorio vulnero nerve.

Six sensory nerve branches of either the trigeminal nerve or the cervical nerve supply the scalp.

The supratrochlear nerve is a branch of the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal nerve. This nerve supplies the scalp in the medial plane at the frontal region up to the vertex.
The supraorbital nerve is also a branch of the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal nerve. This nerve supplies the scalp at the front, lateral to the supratrochlear nerve distribution, up to the vertex.
The zygomaticotemporal nerve is a branch of the maxillary division of the trigeminal nerve and supplies the scalp over the temple region.
The auriculotemporal nerve is a branch of the mandibular division of the trigeminal nerve and supplies the skin over the temporal region of the scalp.
The lesser occipital nerve is a branch of the cervical plexus (C2), which supplies the scalp over the lateral occipital region.
The greater occipital nerve is a branch of the posterior ramus of the second cervical nerve. This nerve supplies the scalp in the median plane at the occipital region up to the vertex.

Cite: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/834808-overview

Please properly cite referenced material...see Rule 4 in your Membership Agreement. Cite added.

Posted By:Locknar

Dorfl · 14th July 2009, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

Six sensory nerve branches of either the trigeminal nerve or the cervical nerve supply the scalp.

The supratrochlear nerve is a branch of the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal nerve. This nerve supplies the scalp in the medial plane at the frontal region up to the vertex.
The supraorbital nerve is also a branch of the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal nerve. This nerve supplies the scalp at the front, lateral to the supratrochlear nerve distribution, up to the vertex.
The zygomaticotemporal nerve is a branch of the maxillary division of the trigeminal nerve and supplies the scalp over the temple region.
The auriculotemporal nerve is a branch of the mandibular division of the trigeminal nerve and supplies the skin over the temporal region of the scalp.
The lesser occipital nerve is a branch of the cervical plexus (C2), which supplies the scalp over the lateral occipital region.
The greater occipital nerve is a branch of the posterior ramus of the second cervical nerve. This nerve supplies the scalp in the median plane at the occipital region up to the vertex.

I still prefer scalp-hurty nerve

But really, is there any way the wasabi could irritate any of these nerves, thus explaining why my scalp prickles?

Could it have anything to do with the photic reflex? I sneeze when I get sun in my eyes too.

Marduk · 14th July 2009, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dorfl

Eating sushi, I've noticed a strange thing about wasabi. If I use too much, my scalp starts hurting,

use head and shoulders then, its designed to be gentle

~enigma~ · 14th July 2009, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dorfl

I still prefer scalp-hurty nerve

But really, is there any way the wasabi could irritate any of these nerves, thus explaining why my scalp prickles?

Could it have anything to do with the photic reflex? I sneeze when I get sun in my eyes too.

Eating wasabi (guess snorting a line of it would also) causes a temporary burning sensation in the nose, and there is a fairly common belief that this produces a decongestant effect. This conclusion is purely anecdotal.

The chemical in wasabi that causes the nasal burning sensation is allyl isothiocyanate, it is also found in mustard and horseradish.

Nasal thermoreceptors send signals to the brain via the trigeminal nerve. The trigeminal nerve is known to convey afferent somatosensory information from the nose including cooling, warming, burning, stinging, itching, tickling, pain, and the perception of humidity. Allyl isothiocyanate directly stimulates these trigeminal nerve fibers.

ETA - Apparently you will have the same "scalp-hurty" if you eat (or snort) enough mustard or horseradish.

ETA2 - Bet you are sorry you asked

bobdroege7 · 14th July 2009, 09:09 AM

Lay off the wasabi then, anyhow you are missing some of the delicate flavors of the sushi you are eating.

Dorfl · 14th July 2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

Eating wasabi (guess snorting a line of it would also) causes a temporary burning sensation in the nose, and there is a fairly common belief that this produces a decongestant effect. This conclusion is purely anecdotal.

The chemical in wasabi that causes the nasal burning sensation is allyl isothiocyanate, it is also found in mustard and horseradish.

Nasal thermoreceptors send signals to the brain via the trigeminal nerve. The trigeminal nerve is known to convey afferent somatosensory information from the nose including cooling, warming, burning, stinging, itching, tickling, pain, and the perception of humidity. Ally lisothiocyanate directly stimulates these trigeminal nerve fibers.

ETA - Apparently you will have the same "scalp-hurty" if you eat (or snort) enough mustard or horseradish.

So it's some sort of bleed-over in the trigeminal nerve that causes the pain?

Dorfl · 14th July 2009, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by bobdroege7

Lay off the wasabi then, anyhow you are missing some of the delicate flavors of the sushi you are eating.

But, but...

Obviously I have to investigate this phenomenon, for Science!

~enigma~ · 14th July 2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dorfl

So it's some sort of bleed-over in the trigeminal nerve that causes the pain?

Another medical term?

There is no "bleed-over". The nerve is being stimulated.

Marduk · 14th July 2009, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by bobdroege7

Lay off the wasabi then, anyhow you are missing some of the delicate flavors of the sushi you are eating.

yes the delicate flavour of raw fish

mmmmmmm

Foolmewunz · 14th July 2009, 09:27 AM

Is there a doctor in the house?
(Not being facetious - one might have rights to the following link which is just a brief but evidently is a study on the subject and specifically mentions what you're describing.)

http://www.theannals.com/cgi/content/abstract/28/2/197

Dorfl · 14th July 2009, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

Another medical term?

There is no "bleed-over". The nerve is being stimulated.

I'm not sure I understand. Is the nerve just functioning as an on/off-transmitter? If so, I understand that stimulating it might cause sensations of heat and hurting and so on. But if it has more states than that, wouldn't it require some sort of bleed-over between different types of signals for a "nose-hot"-signal to turn into a "scalp-hurts"-signal?

~enigma~ · 14th July 2009, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Dorfl

I'm not sure I understand. Is the nerve just functioning as an on/off-transmitter? If so, I understand that stimulating it might cause sensations of heat and hurting and so on. But if it has more states than that, wouldn't it require some sort of bleed-over between different types of signals for a "nose-hot"-signal to turn into a "scalp-hurts"-signal?

From post 9...please read and reread until you understand and I will bold the relevant words for you.

Quote:

Nasal thermoreceptors send signals to the brain via the trigeminal nerve. The trigeminal nerve is known to convey afferent somatosensory information from the nose including cooling, warming, burning, stinging, itching, tickling, pain, and the perception of humidity. Ally lisothiocyanate directly stimulates these trigeminal nerve fibers.

Foolmewunz, the study you linked to is about cyclophosphamide induced effects. The chemical you are looking at in wasabi is allyl isothiocyanate.

Dorfl · 14th July 2009, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

From post 9...please read and reread until you understand and I will bold the relevant words for you.

Yes, sorry. I think I understand it now.

casebro · 14th July 2009, 02:42 PM

The Wasabi tribe is scalp hunting again?

Aww, we just can't move people out of the stone age no matter how hard we try.

Foolmewunz · 14th July 2009, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

From post 9...please read and reread until you understand and I will bold the relevant words for you.

Foolmewunz, the study you linked to is about cyclophosphamide induced effects. The chemical you are looking at in wasabi is allyl isothiocyanate.

Bwahaha! That's what I get for posting late at night and doing quick google searches. I have no idea why Google returned that link.

So - never mind.

~enigma~ · 14th July 2009, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Bwahaha! That's what I get for posting late at night and doing quick google searches. I have no idea why Google returned that link.

So - never mind.

Was the same general idea though.

Foolmewunz · 14th July 2009, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

Was the same general idea though.

Well, it seems to refer to the compound as "mustard - something or other" and mustard and horseradish are often compared to wasabi, so I presume that's the connection; e.g. that whatever it is that causes the eyes to tear and nose run is the same thing that's causing the itchy scalp.

(Idle speculation, really... but I did learn in double-checking that most "tubed" wasabi is actually horseradish, mustard and coloring. A whole lot of people I know here are going to be shocked. I know there's a real different taste to good restaurant wasabi, but I always thought it was just that they had higher quality. Seems there's not such great product control over here. In the states there would be labeling requirements, I'm sure.)

CaveDave · 16th July 2009, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Bwahaha! That's what I get for posting late at night and doing quick google searches. I have no idea why Google returned that link.

So - never mind.

Lower down on the linked page there is an entry "other papers that cite this one" and the paper's title includes the clause "(Wasabi Nose)"

HTH

Cheers,

Dave

14th July 2009, 07:05 AM	#1
Dorfl Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 523	Wasabi scalp-hurting Eating sushi, I've noticed a strange thing about wasabi. If I use too much, my scalp starts hurting, like being jabbed by a lot of tiny needles. Others have described the same sensation as well. I've never had the same thing happen with any other type of spice though. Does anyone know why that is? Does some component of wasabi somehow irritate the scalp-hurty nerve, or would you get the same effect using enough of any spice, but wasabi is easier to overdose, or what?

14th July 2009, 08:55 AM	#5
Dorfl Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 523	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ Six sensory nerve branches of either the trigeminal nerve or the cervical nerve supply the scalp. The supratrochlear nerve is a branch of the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal nerve. This nerve supplies the scalp in the medial plane at the frontal region up to the vertex. The supraorbital nerve is also a branch of the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal nerve. This nerve supplies the scalp at the front, lateral to the supratrochlear nerve distribution, up to the vertex. The zygomaticotemporal nerve is a branch of the maxillary division of the trigeminal nerve and supplies the scalp over the temple region. The auriculotemporal nerve is a branch of the mandibular division of the trigeminal nerve and supplies the skin over the temporal region of the scalp. The lesser occipital nerve is a branch of the cervical plexus (C2), which supplies the scalp over the lateral occipital region. The greater occipital nerve is a branch of the posterior ramus of the second cervical nerve. This nerve supplies the scalp in the median plane at the occipital region up to the vertex. I still prefer scalp-hurty nerve But really, is there any way the wasabi could irritate any of these nerves, thus explaining why my scalp prickles? Could it have anything to do with the photic reflex? I sneeze when I get sun in my eyes too.

14th July 2009, 09:03 AM	#7
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by Dorfl I still prefer scalp-hurty nerve But really, is there any way the wasabi could irritate any of these nerves, thus explaining why my scalp prickles? Could it have anything to do with the photic reflex? I sneeze when I get sun in my eyes too. Eating wasabi (guess snorting a line of it would also) causes a temporary burning sensation in the nose, and there is a fairly common belief that this produces a decongestant effect. This conclusion is purely anecdotal. The chemical in wasabi that causes the nasal burning sensation is allyl isothiocyanate, it is also found in mustard and horseradish. Nasal thermoreceptors send signals to the brain via the trigeminal nerve. The trigeminal nerve is known to convey afferent somatosensory information from the nose including cooling, warming, burning, stinging, itching, tickling, pain, and the perception of humidity. Allyl isothiocyanate directly stimulates these trigeminal nerve fibers. ETA - Apparently you will have the same "scalp-hurty" if you eat (or snort) enough mustard or horseradish. ETA2 - Bet you are sorry you asked
	Last edited by ~enigma~; 14th July 2009 at 09:14 AM.

14th July 2009, 09:09 AM	#8
bobdroege7 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,039	Lay off the wasabi then, anyhow you are missing some of the delicate flavors of the sushi you are eating.
	__________________ Un-american Jack-booted thug Graduate of a liberal arts college!

14th July 2009, 09:27 AM	#13
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,503	Is there a doctor in the house? (Not being facetious - one might have rights to the following link which is just a brief but evidently is a study on the subject and specifically mentions what you're describing.) http://www.theannals.com/cgi/content/abstract/28/2/197
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

14th July 2009, 07:12 AM	#2
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by Dorfl scalp-hurty nerve? That would be medical terminology right?

14th July 2009, 07:28 AM	#3
Dorfl Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 523	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ That would be medical terminology right? Sorry, I meant the excorio vulnero nerve.

14th July 2009, 09:03 AM	#6
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by Dorfl Eating sushi, I've noticed a strange thing about wasabi. If I use too much, my scalp starts hurting, use head and shoulders then, its designed to be gentle

14th July 2009, 09:14 AM	#9
Dorfl Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 523	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ Eating wasabi (guess snorting a line of it would also) causes a temporary burning sensation in the nose, and there is a fairly common belief that this produces a decongestant effect. This conclusion is purely anecdotal. The chemical in wasabi that causes the nasal burning sensation is allyl isothiocyanate, it is also found in mustard and horseradish. Nasal thermoreceptors send signals to the brain via the trigeminal nerve. The trigeminal nerve is known to convey afferent somatosensory information from the nose including cooling, warming, burning, stinging, itching, tickling, pain, and the perception of humidity. Ally lisothiocyanate directly stimulates these trigeminal nerve fibers. ETA - Apparently you will have the same "scalp-hurty" if you eat (or snort) enough mustard or horseradish. So it's some sort of bleed-over in the trigeminal nerve that causes the pain?

14th July 2009, 09:15 AM	#10
Dorfl Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 523	Originally Posted by bobdroege7 Lay off the wasabi then, anyhow you are missing some of the delicate flavors of the sushi you are eating. But, but... Obviously I have to investigate this phenomenon, for Science!

14th July 2009, 09:17 AM	#11
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by Dorfl So it's some sort of bleed-over in the trigeminal nerve that causes the pain? Another medical term? There is no "bleed-over". The nerve is being stimulated.

14th July 2009, 09:22 AM	#12
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by bobdroege7 Lay off the wasabi then, anyhow you are missing some of the delicate flavors of the sushi you are eating. yes the delicate flavour of raw fish mmmmmmm

14th July 2009, 09:29 AM	#14
Dorfl Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 523	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ Another medical term? There is no "bleed-over". The nerve is being stimulated. I'm not sure I understand. Is the nerve just functioning as an on/off-transmitter? If so, I understand that stimulating it might cause sensations of heat and hurting and so on. But if it has more states than that, wouldn't it require some sort of bleed-over between different types of signals for a "nose-hot"-signal to turn into a "scalp-hurts"-signal?

14th July 2009, 09:42 AM	#15
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by Dorfl I'm not sure I understand. Is the nerve just functioning as an on/off-transmitter? If so, I understand that stimulating it might cause sensations of heat and hurting and so on. But if it has more states than that, wouldn't it require some sort of bleed-over between different types of signals for a "nose-hot"-signal to turn into a "scalp-hurts"-signal? From post 9...please read and reread until you understand and I will bold the relevant words for you. Quote: Nasal thermoreceptors send signals to the brain via the trigeminal nerve. The trigeminal nerve is known to convey afferent somatosensory information from the nose including cooling, warming, burning, stinging, itching, tickling, pain, and the perception of humidity. Ally lisothiocyanate directly stimulates these trigeminal nerve fibers. Foolmewunz, the study you linked to is about cyclophosphamide induced effects. The chemical you are looking at in wasabi is allyl isothiocyanate.

14th July 2009, 10:33 AM	#16
Dorfl Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 523	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ From post 9...please read and reread until you understand and I will bold the relevant words for you. Yes, sorry. I think I understand it now.

14th July 2009, 02:42 PM	#17
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	The Wasabi tribe is scalp hunting again? Aww, we just can't move people out of the stone age no matter how hard we try.
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

14th July 2009, 08:09 PM	#18
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,503	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ From post 9...please read and reread until you understand and I will bold the relevant words for you. Foolmewunz, the study you linked to is about cyclophosphamide induced effects. The chemical you are looking at in wasabi is allyl isothiocyanate. Bwahaha! That's what I get for posting late at night and doing quick google searches. I have no idea why Google returned that link. So - never mind.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

14th July 2009, 10:10 PM	#19
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Bwahaha! That's what I get for posting late at night and doing quick google searches. I have no idea why Google returned that link. So - never mind. Was the same general idea though.

14th July 2009, 11:05 PM	#20
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,503	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ Was the same general idea though. Well, it seems to refer to the compound as "mustard - something or other" and mustard and horseradish are often compared to wasabi, so I presume that's the connection; e.g. that whatever it is that causes the eyes to tear and nose run is the same thing that's causing the itchy scalp. (Idle speculation, really... but I did learn in double-checking that most "tubed" wasabi is actually horseradish, mustard and coloring. A whole lot of people I know here are going to be shocked. I know there's a real different taste to good restaurant wasabi, but I always thought it was just that they had higher quality. Seems there's not such great product control over here. In the states there would be labeling requirements, I'm sure.)
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

16th July 2009, 02:07 AM	#21
CaveDave Semicentenarian Troglodyte Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Buddy Holly's home, Surrounded by tumbleweeds, duststorms, and tornados. Posts: 1,760	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Bwahaha! That's what I get for posting late at night and doing quick google searches. I have no idea why Google returned that link. So - never mind. Lower down on the linked page there is an entry "other papers that cite this one" and the paper's title includes the clause "(Wasabi Nose)" HTH Cheers, Dave
	__________________ I, for one, welcome our new Authoritarian Socialist Overlords! . . . All Hail, Comrade Obama! WHO IS JOHN GALT? . . . Read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. "Some say that I'm a wise man, some think that I'm a fool. It doesn't matter either way: I'll be a wise man's fool." Procol Harum "In Held 'Twas In I"