Tarot cards, they are AMAZING! - Page 3

politas · 2nd November 2009, 12:16 PM

I'd be very impressed if MrErisian can use the cards to tell me how many times I will be asked or invited by other people to sing at the folk festival coming up in a couple of weeks.

This seems like a good example of a precise prediction that neither one of us has any great knowledge about.

Anyway, I'll volunteer for the test, if there aren't already ten people.

Careyp74 · 2nd November 2009, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Oz

MrErisian,
Good luck on this test. People who show a sincere willingness to be tested, deservedly, get a lot of respect on the JREF forums. Whether you succeed or fail in these readings, you have my respect.

He got my respect with this one.

Originally Posted by dlorde

Your last post

Anyone with the courtesy of not making us read a whole dlorde post...

dropzone · 2nd November 2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Tarot, like a coin flip, is a decision-making tool. Should I quit my job because I hate my boss? Nine swords suggests that you're overreacting to the situation. Five coins indicates possible financial difficulties. The Sun shows that there is a brighter future ahead. Okay, I won't quit my job.

Yes, it helps focus your thinking while still being completely random.

Vortigern99 · 2nd November 2009, 02:58 PM

I must say I'm impressed with how this thread has developed, and I'm excited to see where it's going. Cheers and good luck to all participants!

Teapots Happen · 2nd November 2009, 03:32 PM

In April of 2007 I was single, and dating.

This is always a tricky time, dealing with human hearts in a lawless grey zone, where no rules exist but those we hold ourselves to.

Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but you know what I mean.

I found myself in a situation I was increasingly uncomfortable with - seeing two women too regularly for it to be casual. While I wasn’t violating any rules, any promises, any stated expectations – I was nonetheless old enough to take some accountability for my responsibility to do no harm to those I lived alongside. And deep down, I knew that I wasn’t really doing anyone right.

So when Becky – one of the two women I was dating – told me that she had done a tarot reading in which I had come up as the 'reversed King of Cups,' I knew it was time to examine the situation and myself - because that was exactly who I'd been to her:

Dishonest, double-dealing man; roguery, exaction, vice, scandal, pillage, considerable loss.

Always the skeptic, I found myself doubting that Becky had really even drawn that card for me … maybe she was just obliquely telling me that she knew what was going on? It was just too accurate … and I’d never had anything but scorn for tarot card readings and other forms of divination.

But it didn’t really matter, because regardless, it made me realize that I should be striving to date ethically, the same way I was increasingly striving to live in other areas of my life – if I was going to eat more humanely, I should also be living more in line with my spiritual inklings in all domains. To be a rogue and justify any damages done as “not my responsibility, I didn’t lie” had worked fine for me in the past, but it wasn’t going to fly with the transformed Self that I was busy creating.

Although I had long been the harshest of skeptics about the tarot, now, in the post-teapot swirl of synchronicity, the way I was starting to see reality had room for all kinds of interconnectedness between mind and matter, external and internal realities. I was sometimes even open to the idea that the universe itself was living, aware, and communicative. And in such a universe, tarot cards were a meaning-laden context into which synchronicity could very well flourish.

So later that evening, when I found myself feeling simultaneously utterly mystical and utterly upset about my dating situation, I decided I would try using tarot cards for the first time.

I took out the Waite-Rider deck that had somehow made its home in my sunroom and paced through my house, shuffling the cards and holding Becky in my mind, succeeding at this mental focusing in a way I am rarely able to do, aided by photos she’d taken, items we’d found together, memories of significant events.

After a couple minutes of this, I thought “WHAT AM I TO BECKY?” and laid three cards down face down, in a simple three card spread that Becky had taught me.

The first card would represent the Past answer to my question – “what WAS I to Becky?“

I flipped it over and it was quite accurate:

Ace of Cups: Love, intimacy, deeper feelings ... beginning of great possibility in this area of life. It can mark the start of a new relationship.

Very accurate, and the waters of life resonated with me as being similar to Lake Superior, which had been very bound up in our early relationship (we went there together the day after we met, and had returned there several times).

But it was the second card that floored me with synchronicity – the ‘Present’ card – the card answering the question “What am I to Becky now?”

Because the card I flipped over was the same card Becky had gotten for me, in that same position in the spread – and upside down (“Reversed”), the same way she’d drawn it – giving it the meaning “dishonest, double-dealing man; roguery, exaction, vice, scandal, pillage, considerable loss.“

The blood drained from my face.

This was the first time I’d ever done tarot cards, and I’d gotten the exact same card that had thrown me into turmoil in the first place, leading me to dabble in tarot cards …

(And when I flipped the "Future" card, I knew I was going to have to change my ways - because it was "The Devil."

After being stunned by the reversed King of Cups, I was extremely sensitive to this card – and it said to me, very clearly, that I was going to have an evil effect on Becky if I did not change course.

In that moment, I had NO doubt at all that the cards I got were meaningful, and not random coincidences. And even when I was less certain, later on, I still knew that the message was true – and that a Devil was the last thing I wanted to be in her life.

So I ended our dating relationship shortly afterward. I apologized, and even explained the tarot spread I’d gotten. The transition was rough for both of us, but I think we now both agree that it was for the best …

Miss_Kitt · 2nd November 2009, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Oz

Can I also suggest updates to be posted in the thread, so everyone can keep track of where we are?

e.g.

- arthwollipot posts the ten volunteers*

- MrErisian accepts the ten volunteers selected*

- arthwollipot posts his list of six questions, and the question chosen for the test by die-roll**

- MrErisian accepts the selected question

- arthwollipot announces his receipt of the ten readings and that he has numbered them randomly

- arthwollipot announces he has sent the readings via PM to the ten sitters

- arthwollipot announces receipt of the chosen readings from the ten sitters

- arthwollipot post results of the test

My comments are below:

*I think Arthwollipot should not post the names of the volunteers, nor should MrErisian know who they are. That way, he cannot use anything they have posted--consciously or subconsciously--towards shaping his reading(s).

**I think the wording of the questions is going to be extremely important in terms of trying to limit the amount of 'free interpretation' the reader and the subjects will have open to them.

I would also like to volunteer to be one of the subjects, if one is still needed. And I echo the 'grown up questions' sentiment.

regards, MK

arthwollipot · 2nd November 2009, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Oz

1. We get ten volunteers (better than three originally suggested and we're almost there already). Since arthwollipot volunteered to control the test, can you - artwollipot - please make a list of the ten selected?

Everyone who volunteers, please send me a PM with the words "I volunteer" in the subject line. I will take the first ten people who do this.

Originally Posted by Robert Oz

2. I suggest arthwollipot make a list of six questions suitable for a tarot reading and then select one randomly, based on the roll of a die. I think with the sitters selecting questions, clues are already being provided that make the test less controlled (e.g. big decision relating to love life in the next 45 days for Foolmewunz).

I would like further input and feedback on the specific quesstions.

Originally Posted by Robert Oz

3. I'm not all that familiar with the tarot. Is it possible to do a reading of what has happened in the past month rather than the next month? This way, the results are immediately available rather than waiting a month.

4. MrErisian does a reading for each of the ten volunteers arthwollipot has chosen and sends these readings (with the names on top) to arthwollipot via PM.

5. Arthwollipot randomly assigns numbers (1 to 10) to the readings and arranges them in numerical order. He then PMs the full list of ten readings to each of the ten sitters.

6. The sitters read the ten readings and select the one they think most represents themselves and send a response to arthwollipot via PM with their selection.

7. Arthwollipot counts the successes and failures and posts them on the board.

Feel free to make changes to the protocol, and arthwollipot can make the final call on what he feels is a fair protocol. Any suggestions for what would consitute overall success?

I agree with the above, with one stipulation:

Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt

*I think Arthwollipot should not post the names of the volunteers, nor should MrErisian know who they are. That way, he cannot use anything they have posted--consciously or subconsciously--towards shaping his reading(s).

This.

Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt

**I think the wording of the questions is going to be extremely important in terms of trying to limit the amount of 'free interpretation' the reader and the subjects will have open to them.

I agree. We need to all agree on the specific wording of the questions before any test will take place. The questions should be as specific as possible.

MrErisian · 2nd November 2009, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Oz

The questions should be applicable to all readers. I think 'What is the situation with x?' is a great question! For the purposes of this test, questions that are more sitter-specific, such as 'Should x take early redundancy?' should be avoided.

Can you differentiate between what is past and present versus what is future? If so, can we make the test about past and present only. At least this way, the results will be immediately available rather than waiting a month.

If the future prediction is a necessary part of the test (see my comments above), I'm happy with the double-test (i.e. pick your reading, reveal accuracy of prediction).

I'd be happy with 7 out of 10.

I'm sure there are other ways of doing tarot but I'm pretty inexperienced and the type I personally want to test is the Celtic Cross style reading. It's the one that has impressed me the most. It gives you a whole set of things about the past and present then a few littler things about the future.

The 'What is the situation with x?' question does seem the most flexible and likely to fit everyone.

Happy with other suggestions for questions. 7 out of 10 seems a bit low of a hit rate, I'm looking for something a bit higher personally. Furthermore, in the event that the test gives us a positive result it won't make me a true believer. It'll just confuse me even more. Then I guess I'll either stop doing them or suggest a few more tests.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Everyone who volunteers, please send me a PM with the words "I volunteer" in the subject line. I will take the first ten people who do this.

That'd include anyone who I've PM'd to confirm they've already volunteered on this string.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I agree with the above, with one stipulation:

Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt

*I think Arthwollipot should not post the names of the volunteers, nor should MrErisian know who they are. That way, he cannot use anything they have posted--consciously or subconsciously--towards shaping his reading(s).

The questions should be as specific as possible.

Hang on. I'll need some sort of name or something to concentrate on when I do these readings. Remember I'm not making a claim to have any psychic powers here. I just want to test this process which seems to have been so successful with my friends and family. In the past I've done a few over the phone so I guess that's a bit like being online. In a normal reading I'd know their name, I was thinking that just their forum name was a bit of a stretch but the idea of not actually knowing anything at all doesn't make any sense.

I want this test to sort of explain previously 'successful' readings to me.

This above method means I'd just be doing a load of random readings apropos of nothing.

If you want to mask their online identity perhaps use the volunteer's real life names, if they're ok with revealing that to you? Only their first name obviously, to cut out any suggestion I googled anyone.

In reality I'm honestly not intending to hunt round this forum (or the wider internet) trying to work stuff out about people. Ten tarot card readings is work enough as it is.

arthwollipot · 2nd November 2009, 11:32 PM

I have five volunteers so far.

arthwollipot · 3rd November 2009, 12:48 AM

Seven volunteers.

Akhenaten · 3rd November 2009, 12:53 AM

What was that thing back up there ^ with the pictures in it? Is that part of the test?

arthwollipot · 3rd November 2009, 12:54 AM

Nine volunteers. One space left.

arthwollipot · 3rd November 2009, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

What was that thing back up there ^ with the pictures in it? Is that part of the test?

Nothing is part of the test yet. We haven't even decided on the questions.

Robert Oz · 3rd November 2009, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by MrErisian

Hang on. I'll need some sort of name or something to concentrate on when I do these readings. Remember I'm not making a claim to have any psychic powers here. I just want to test this process which seems to have been so successful with my friends and family. In the past I've done a few over the phone so I guess that's a bit like being online. In a normal reading I'd know their name, I was thinking that just their forum name was a bit of a stretch but the idea of not actually knowing anything at all doesn't make any sense.

arthwollipot,

What do you think of the following to accommodate MrErisian's request:

- The list of ten should be made up of forum users who do not use their first names as part of their user names and do not sign their posts with their real names.

- The users who are willing, reveal their first names ONLY to arthwollipot.

- Arthwollipot provides MrErisian with the first names of the sitters.

- Arthwollipot is the only person who is aware of the forum users' real names and agrees not to release the details.

- Likewise, MrErisian should not reveal the names of people he has read for.

By allowing MrErisian real names for the test, he can at least be confident that everything has been done to ensure a fair test from his point of view. Forum users who are unwilling to reveal their real names to arthwollipot can pull out of the test and be replaced by willing participants.

Foolmewunz · 3rd November 2009, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Oz

arthwollipot,

What do you think of the following to accommodate MrErisian's request:

- The list of ten should be made up of forum users who do not use their first names as part of their user names and do not sign their posts with their real names.

- The users who are willing, reveal their first names ONLY to arthwollipot.

- Arthwollipot provides MrErisian with the first names of the sitters.

- Arthwollipot is the only person who is aware of the forum users' real names and agrees not to release the details.

- Likewise, MrErisian should not reveal the names of people he has read for.

By allowing MrErisian real names for the test, he can at least be confident that everything has been done to ensure a fair test from his point of view. Forum users who are unwilling to reveal their real names to arthwollipot can pull out of the test and be replaced by willing participants.

I can agree to that. I believe I can trust Arth with a first name... and if it makes MrErisian more comfortable to have a name to associate with a bunch of bits and bytes, I'm for it.

Robert Oz · 3rd November 2009, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

We need to all agree on the specific wording of the questions before any test will take place. The questions should be as specific as possible.

For the purposes of this test, I think the 'What is the current situation in relation to...' type question is most appropriate. I understand it isn't as specific as you possibly had in mind, but MrErisian did say he would make the readings as specific as possible. With a general question like 'What is the current situation in relation to...', he has an opportunity to flesh out a decent background that the sitters should easily be able to identify with if tarot really works.

What about something like this:

1. What is the current situation in relation to love life / relationships?
2. What is the current situation in relation to education / career?
3. What is the current situation in relation to relationship with parents?
4. What is the current situation in relation to place of abode?
5. What is the current situation in relation to hobbies / interests?
6. What is the current situation in relation to family (i.e. married, children)?

Pure_Argent · 3rd November 2009, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

I can agree to that. I believe I can trust Arth with a first name... and if it makes MrErisian more comfortable to have a name to associate with a bunch of bits and bytes, I'm for it.

Just the first name? I can't really see the harm in telling anyone your FIRST name. First and last, yeah, that could be dangerous, but there must be hundreds of people out there who share my first name.

Foolmewunz · 3rd November 2009, 07:28 AM

7. What is the current situation/outlook as to health

Foolmewunz · 3rd November 2009, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

Just the first name? I can't really see the harm in telling anyone your FIRST name. First and last, yeah, that could be dangerous, but there must be hundreds of people out there who share my first name.

Google Results for Rumplestilskin Argent 58,200 results. So you're secret's safe with us.

Oops.

Pure_Argent · 3rd November 2009, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Google Results for Rumplestilskin Argent 58,200 results. So you're secret's safe with us.

Oops.

Curse you, Foolmewunz! Now how am I supposed to get babies?

Robert Oz · 3rd November 2009, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

7. What is the current situation/outlook as to health

I can't believe I didn't think of that one. I was racking my brains. I suppose if I gave my list to a cold reader, he or she could comfortably make a side prediction that I don't have any health issues and am quite healthy.

Even the questions you ask (and don't ask) provide clues to cold readers. Another reason why the link between user name and real name must remain anonymous.

Teapots Happen · 3rd November 2009, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

What was that thing back up there ^ with the pictures in it? Is that part of the test?

Oops.

Nope, just my anecdotal story about my first time ever using tarot cards, which seemed quite appropriate after reading the beginning of this thread ... not realizing it had progressed into talk of testing in later pages.

Carry on ...

Nursefoxfire · 3rd November 2009, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Teapots Happen

Oops.

Nope, just my anecdotal story about my first time ever using tarot cards, which seemed quite appropriate after reading the beginning of this thread ... not realizing it had progressed into talk of testing in later pages.

Carry on ...

I thought your story was interesting, and it demonstrated brilliantly what arthwollipot said in an earlier post. Your tarot cards were used to nudge you into making decisions that you needed to focus on. They don't have any inherent "powers", but using them allowed you to think about issues that were bothering you, and enabled you to get some resolution.

I used a Lover's I-Ching some years back (sort of as a joke) to think over a decision I needed to make about two men in my life. I found myself re-doing bad throws in order to come up with results I honestly didn't know I wanted. Afterward I wondered if I'd cheated in some way, but then came to my senses and realized I was using the coins to bring to the surface what I subconsciously wanted all along.

Akhenaten · 3rd November 2009, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Teapots Happen

Oops.

Nope, just my anecdotal story about my first time ever using tarot cards, which seemed quite appropriate after reading the beginning of this thread ... not realizing it had progressed into talk of testing in later pages.

Carry on ...

Kewlies. I was just bein' silly anyway.

volatile · 3rd November 2009, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I believe that I can speak with a certain amount of experience on this subject, having been a Tarot/Rune reader for many years during my neopagan phase. I still have my cards and drag them out every now and again. They're anything but a game, in my opinion, but let me explain why before anyone jumps in.

First thing I will say here is: pay attention to athon. He's a really smart guy, and he's hit the nail right on the head from his first post in this thread.

Now.

The "power" of Tarot (such as it is) is the power of symbolism. I like to use a deck with detailed illustrations, such as the Rider-Waite, or my personal favourite Norse Tarot. Each card has a situation illustrated on it, and when you draw these out randomly, you make connections between them. That's what people do - they make patterns.

Each card has a carefully-constructed story associated with it - or rather, part of a story. You need very little assistance to link these independent story pieces together, and even less to relate it to something in your own life - especially if you approach the subject with an a priori assumption that it is going to relate to your life, which each and every querent does.

It has been my experience that the stories generated randomly by the Tarot have a tendency to illuminate, or clarify, someone's thinking on a subject. They're a assistant to decision making. Let me use an analogy.

When you flip a coin to make a decision, how many possible outcomes are there? Two? Wrong.

There are actually four possible outcomes to a coin-flip-assisted decision: a heads you like, a heads you don't like, a tails you like, and a tails you don't like. Flipping the coin helps you to decide what option you prefer by "forcing" you to take one or the other. How many times have you said "heads hamburger, tails salad", flipped heads and decided "you know what? I think I'll just have a salad," contrary to the result of the flip?

Tarot works the same way. By putting symbols in your way, you can identify options and make decisions that you otherwise would vacillate over, or be ambivalent about.

Tarot, like a coin flip, is a decision-making tool. Should I quit my job because I hate my boss? Nine swords suggests that you're overreacting to the situation. Five coins indicates possible financial difficulties. The Sun shows that there is a brighter future ahead. Okay, I won't quit my job.

Can the Tarot predict future events? It depends on what your definition of predict is. Certainly it can form part of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I didn't quit my job because of what the cards said, and now the boss I hate has retired. Did the cards predict that? It depends on your interpretation. Certainly the "brighter future" would not have happened if I had ignored the cards and quit my job, and then I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But the fact that humans are pattern-makers, and the well-known phenomenon of confirmation bias, means that I will attribute more meaning to the cards than is inherent in the images alone.

Fantastic post. Thank you for laying that out so concisely.

dudalb · 3rd November 2009, 12:09 PM

I have to give my wife's interpretation of the 8 of swords;given at a SCA event:

The lady has Kinky Tastes......

arthwollipot · 3rd November 2009, 05:09 PM

I have my ten volunteers, and have sent each of them a PM confirming their participation.

I don't see any reason why first names should be used at all. We can operate anonymously, surely?

CptColumbo · 3rd November 2009, 05:14 PM

"I once played poker with a set of Tarot cards. I got a full house and three people at the table dropped dead." - Steven Wright

dlorde · 3rd November 2009, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Careyp74

Anyone with the courtesy of not making us read a whole dlorde post...

Ow, harsh

Actually, it wasn't too far off - I thought arthwollipot expanded on it very well

arthwollipot · 3rd November 2009, 05:23 PM

Okay, I'd missed this:

Originally Posted by MrErisian

Hang on. I'll need some sort of name or something to concentrate on when I do these readings. Remember I'm not making a claim to have any psychic powers here. I just want to test this process which seems to have been so successful with my friends and family. In the past I've done a few over the phone so I guess that's a bit like being online. In a normal reading I'd know their name, I was thinking that just their forum name was a bit of a stretch but the idea of not actually knowing anything at all doesn't make any sense.

First names will be provided. There is a greater than zero number of volunteers whose first name may be determinable, so I will eliminate any such names and replace them with other volunteers.

Originally Posted by Robert Oz

What about something like this:

1. What is the current situation in relation to love life / relationships?
2. What is the current situation in relation to education / career?
3. What is the current situation in relation to relationship with parents?
4. What is the current situation in relation to place of abode?
5. What is the current situation in relation to hobbies / interests?
6. What is the current situation in relation to family (i.e. married, children)?

I approve this list if it works for MrErisian.

Can everyone I've sent a PM to about the challenge, please reply with your first name. I will then pass those names to Mr Erisian.

dropzone · 3rd November 2009, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by politas

I'd be very impressed if MrErisian can use the cards to tell me how many times I will be asked or invited by other people to sing at the folk festival coming up in a couple of weeks.

This seems like a good example of a precise prediction that neither one of us has any great knowledge about.

However, you just supplied a detail of your life and a cold reader would take it and run with it.

arthwollipot · 4th November 2009, 12:26 AM

I have first names for all but two of our participants.

Can we get confirmation that the list of questions as presented earlier is okay?

skullerello · 4th November 2009, 01:00 AM

Eventho' I enjoy how this thread is progressing, I'll just throw my two cents in: I used to flip Tarot cards in a bar for drinks after hours. I also read palms, because one of the bar-tenders asked me if I could, and with enough drinks in me, I could "tap into the intuitive channel" and produce a copious amount of amazing information about the seekers I did readings for.
Since very little ever escapes my attention, and I retain a great deal of minutia, and I can be fairly fast on my feet when the situation calls for it, I was a fine seer. I was a con. But it was at a bar, it was always after-hours, and all I asked was a drink or two. Everyone always applauded my "gift", and noone ever got hurt.
But, I was a fake, fooling myself and all the gullable around me.

politas · 4th November 2009, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by dropzone

However, you just supplied a detail of your life and a cold reader would take it and run with it.

Yes, a practiced and intentional cold reader would. It's not a lot of information, though, and since I'm requesting a very precise forecast, and do not intend to further discuss anything in relation to the topic, it would be very remarkable if MrErisian could determine the number.

Perhaps he could send his prediction in a PM to Arthwollipot, and I'll post the actual number after the festival, so that I'm blinded in the test.

Just a side test, if MrErisian feels like it.

Akhenaten · 4th November 2009, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by skullerello

Eventho' I enjoy how this thread is progressing, I'll just throw my two cents in: I used to flip Tarot cards in a bar for drinks after hours. I also read palms, because one of the bar-tenders asked me if I could, and with enough drinks in me, I could "tap into the intuitive channel" and produce a copious amount of amazing information about the seekers I did readings for.
Since very little ever escapes my attention, and I retain a great deal of minutia, and I can be fairly fast on my feet when the situation calls for it, I was a fine seer. I was a con. But it was at a bar, it was always after-hours, and all I asked was a drink or two. Everyone always applauded my "gift", and noone ever got hurt.
But, I was a fake, fooling myself and all the gullable around me.

Much too hard on yourself.

You were an entertainer, working for payment in kind, and obviously fairly popular because of it.

I can't see anything wrong with that at all. I would have bought you a drink, even though I know it's ~~all rubbish~~ ~~not at all scientific~~ simply a decision-making tool.

Go you!

JollyRoger · 4th November 2009, 10:56 AM

I had a few experiences with Tarot cards, the art work is nothing short of amazing in most cases, the reading you get are very general and can be applied to almost anything, in addition people have a tendency to strive toward achieving what the Tarot cards predict for them on a subconscious level.

Just for fun I had bought a pack of French Tarot cards that (aside from the 22 or so Major Arcana Cards and the fact that they where a bit larger) looked like a regular deck of cards written in French, I sorted them out so I had 52 playing cards and used to challenge people to a game of Rummy 500. Of all the hundreds of games I played I only lost one of them (the one where I was paying attention to the womans chest more so then the game)

What I think used to happen is after starting the game they would ask "what kind of cards are these" I would tell them they were French Tarot cards I sorted them out would you like to see the others? after being told of the fact that they were playing Rummy 500 with Tarot cards they would ponder the long history and reputation of the Tarot deck and it started to distract them from the game, after that happed I just cleaned up, although I never felt comfortable using Tarot cards in a card game that involved money the thought had crossed my mind and If I knew how to play poker I may have tried.

I like to think of my self as a skeptic with an open mind so just in case what they say about the Occult is true I did not wanna be a victim of it. Using Tarot cards and their reputation/history to distract people from the game and taking all their money in the process did not seem to Kosher to me.
Never hurts to be careful in some cases

dudalb · 4th November 2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by CptColumbo

"I once played poker with a set of Tarot cards. I got a full house and three people at the table dropped dead." - Steven Wright

The irony is that the Tarot cards were originally meant as playing cards; I have played the original game they were meant for at SCA Events and a couple of Renassiance fairs.

MikeSun5 · 4th November 2009, 10:22 PM

So there's only going to be one reading given by Mr. Erisian?

Should someone else do a control reading? I mean, if the results are supposed to be "divine" or come from some "universal consciousness" or something, the results should be similar on a separate reading, right?

Maybe the control reading should not employ imagery, but strictly just the cards' definitions. I realize I may be adding more work than necessary (this experiment is destined to fail

- I already know. I just drew The Tower card).

arthwollipot · 4th November 2009, 10:27 PM

My understanding was that MrErisian was going to do a reading for each of the ten volunteers, addressing each of the questions proposed:

Originally Posted by Robert Oz

1. What is the current situation in relation to love life / relationships?
2. What is the current situation in relation to education / career?
3. What is the current situation in relation to relationship with parents?
4. What is the current situation in relation to place of abode?
5. What is the current situation in relation to hobbies / interests?
6. What is the current situation in relation to family (i.e. married, children)?

But it depends on what MrErisian says he is willing to do/capable of doing.

JollyRoger · 4th November 2009, 11:50 PM

Major Arcana #0 the card without a number

any body know where I can find the rest of this deck I have been looking for years

2nd November 2009, 12:16 PM	#81
politas Evil Atheist Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 871	I'd be very impressed if MrErisian can use the cards to tell me how many times I will be asked or invited by other people to sing at the folk festival coming up in a couple of weeks. This seems like a good example of a precise prediction that neither one of us has any great knowledge about. Anyway, I'll volunteer for the test, if there aren't already ten people.
	__________________ Myk GENERATION X: The first time you see this, add something vaguely similar to your sig on any forum. So-called experiment. Last edited by politas; 2nd November 2009 at 12:31 PM.

2nd November 2009, 02:38 PM	#83
dropzone Muse Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 518	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Tarot, like a coin flip, is a decision-making tool. Should I quit my job because I hate my boss? Nine swords suggests that you're overreacting to the situation. Five coins indicates possible financial difficulties. The Sun shows that there is a brighter future ahead. Okay, I won't quit my job. Yes, it helps focus your thinking while still being completely random.
dropzone Muse Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 518

2nd November 2009, 02:58 PM	#84
Vortigern99 Muse Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 872	I must say I'm impressed with how this thread has developed, and I'm excited to see where it's going. Cheers and good luck to all participants!
	__________________ "Chance makes playthings of us all." -- Seneca

2nd November 2009, 03:48 PM	#86
Miss_Kitt Zombie Horse of Homeopathy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lesser Seattle Posts: 2,030	Suggesting modifications to this... Originally Posted by Robert Oz Can I also suggest updates to be posted in the thread, so everyone can keep track of where we are? e.g. - arthwollipot posts the ten volunteers* - MrErisian accepts the ten volunteers selected* - arthwollipot posts his list of six questions, and the question chosen for the test by die-roll** - MrErisian accepts the selected question - arthwollipot announces his receipt of the ten readings and that he has numbered them randomly - arthwollipot announces he has sent the readings via PM to the ten sitters - arthwollipot announces receipt of the chosen readings from the ten sitters - arthwollipot post results of the test My comments are below: I think Arthwollipot should not post* the names of the volunteers, nor should MrErisian know who they are. That way, he cannot use anything they have posted--consciously or subconsciously--towards shaping his reading(s). **I think the wording of the questions is going to be extremely important in terms of trying to limit the amount of 'free interpretation' the reader and the subjects will have open to them. I would also like to volunteer to be one of the subjects, if one is still needed. And I echo the 'grown up questions' sentiment. regards, MK
	__________________ It's much better to live an honest life than a delusional one -- desertgal I'm not sure how to pronounce it, but the ideogram looks like a dead bird that hit a corvette window during a hurricane. -- dragonrock

2nd November 2009, 07:28 PM	#87
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 25,287	Originally Posted by Robert Oz 1. We get ten volunteers (better than three originally suggested and we're almost there already). Since arthwollipot volunteered to control the test, can you - artwollipot - please make a list of the ten selected? Everyone who volunteers, please send me a PM with the words "I volunteer" in the subject line. I will take the first ten people who do this. Originally Posted by Robert Oz 2. I suggest arthwollipot make a list of six questions suitable for a tarot reading and then select one randomly, based on the roll of a die. I think with the sitters selecting questions, clues are already being provided that make the test less controlled (e.g. big decision relating to love life in the next 45 days for Foolmewunz). I would like further input and feedback on the specific quesstions. Originally Posted by Robert Oz 3. I'm not all that familiar with the tarot. Is it possible to do a reading of what has happened in the past month rather than the next month? This way, the results are immediately available rather than waiting a month. 4. MrErisian does a reading for each of the ten volunteers arthwollipot has chosen and sends these readings (with the names on top) to arthwollipot via PM. 5. Arthwollipot randomly assigns numbers (1 to 10) to the readings and arranges them in numerical order. He then PMs the full list of ten readings to each of the ten sitters. 6. The sitters read the ten readings and select the one they think most represents themselves and send a response to arthwollipot via PM with their selection. 7. Arthwollipot counts the successes and failures and posts them on the board. Feel free to make changes to the protocol, and arthwollipot can make the final call on what he feels is a fair protocol. Any suggestions for what would consitute overall success? I agree with the above, with one stipulation: Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt I think Arthwollipot should not post* the names of the volunteers, nor should MrErisian know who they are. That way, he cannot use anything they have posted--consciously or subconsciously--towards shaping his reading(s). This. Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt *I think the wording of the questions is going to be extremely important in terms of trying to limit the amount of 'free interpretation' the reader and the subjects will have open to them. I agree. We need to all* agree on the specific wording of the questions before any test will take place. The questions should be as specific as possible.
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Features the LHC and multi-dimensional portals, The wonder herb Tribulus, the Catholic church and homosexuals, John Edward visits, some information on Wilhelm Reich and Orgone, we get to know Dave the Happy Singer plus more! What's an "arthwollipot"?

2nd November 2009, 12:37 PM	#82
Careyp74 Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 1,357	Originally Posted by Robert Oz MrErisian, Good luck on this test. People who show a sincere willingness to be tested, deservedly, get a lot of respect on the JREF forums. Whether you succeed or fail in these readings, you have my respect. He got my respect with this one. Originally Posted by dlorde Your last post Anyone with the courtesy of not making us read a whole dlorde post...

2nd November 2009, 03:32 PM	#85
Teapots Happen Student Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 35	In April of 2007 I was single, and dating. This is always a tricky time, dealing with human hearts in a lawless grey zone, where no rules exist but those we hold ourselves to. Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but you know what I mean. I found myself in a situation I was increasingly uncomfortable with - seeing two women too regularly for it to be casual. While I wasn’t violating any rules, any promises, any stated expectations – I was nonetheless old enough to take some accountability for my responsibility to do no harm to those I lived alongside. And deep down, I knew that I wasn’t really doing anyone right. So when Becky – one of the two women I was dating – told me that she had done a tarot reading in which I had come up as the 'reversed King of Cups,' I knew it was time to examine the situation and myself - because that was exactly who I'd been to her: Dishonest, double-dealing man; roguery, exaction, vice, scandal, pillage, considerable loss. Always the skeptic, I found myself doubting that Becky had really even drawn that card for me … maybe she was just obliquely telling me that she knew what was going on? It was just too accurate … and I’d never had anything but scorn for tarot card readings and other forms of divination. But it didn’t really matter, because regardless, it made me realize that I should be striving to date ethically, the same way I was increasingly striving to live in other areas of my life – if I was going to eat more humanely, I should also be living more in line with my spiritual inklings in all domains. To be a rogue and justify any damages done as “not my responsibility, I didn’t lie” had worked fine for me in the past, but it wasn’t going to fly with the transformed Self that I was busy creating. Although I had long been the harshest of skeptics about the tarot, now, in the post-teapot swirl of synchronicity, the way I was starting to see reality had room for all kinds of interconnectedness between mind and matter, external and internal realities. I was sometimes even open to the idea that the universe itself was living, aware, and communicative. And in such a universe, tarot cards were a meaning-laden context into which synchronicity could very well flourish. So later that evening, when I found myself feeling simultaneously utterly mystical and utterly upset about my dating situation, I decided I would try using tarot cards for the first time. I took out the Waite-Rider deck that had somehow made its home in my sunroom and paced through my house, shuffling the cards and holding Becky in my mind, succeeding at this mental focusing in a way I am rarely able to do, aided by photos she’d taken, items we’d found together, memories of significant events. After a couple minutes of this, I thought “WHAT AM I TO BECKY?” and laid three cards down face down, in a simple three card spread that Becky had taught me. The first card would represent the Past answer to my question – “what WAS I to Becky?“ I flipped it over and it was quite accurate: Ace of Cups: Love, intimacy, deeper feelings ... beginning of great possibility in this area of life. It can mark the start of a new relationship. Very accurate, and the waters of life resonated with me as being similar to Lake Superior, which had been very bound up in our early relationship (we went there together the day after we met, and had returned there several times). But it was the second card that floored me with synchronicity – the ‘Present’ card – the card answering the question “What am I to Becky now?” Because the card I flipped over was the same card Becky had gotten for me, in that same position in the spread – and upside down (“Reversed”), the same way she’d drawn it – giving it the meaning “dishonest, double-dealing man; roguery, exaction, vice, scandal, pillage, considerable loss.“ The blood drained from my face. This was the first time I’d ever done tarot cards, and I’d gotten the exact same card that had thrown me into turmoil in the first place, leading me to dabble in tarot cards … (And when I flipped the "Future" card, I knew I was going to have to change my ways - because it was "The Devil." After being stunned by the reversed King of Cups, I was extremely sensitive to this card – and it said to me, very clearly, that I was going to have an evil effect on Becky if I did not change course. In that moment, I had NO doubt at all that the cards I got were meaningful, and not random coincidences. And even when I was less certain, later on, I still knew that the message was true – and that a Devil was the last thing I wanted to be in her life. So I ended our dating relationship shortly afterward. I apologized, and even explained the tarot spread I’d gotten. The transition was rough for both of us, but I think we now both agree that it was for the best …

2nd November 2009, 11:30 PM	#88
MrErisian Student Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 28	Originally Posted by Robert Oz The questions should be applicable to all readers. I think 'What is the situation with x?' is a great question! For the purposes of this test, questions that are more sitter-specific, such as 'Should x take early redundancy?' should be avoided. Can you differentiate between what is past and present versus what is future? If so, can we make the test about past and present only. At least this way, the results will be immediately available rather than waiting a month. If the future prediction is a necessary part of the test (see my comments above), I'm happy with the double-test (i.e. pick your reading, reveal accuracy of prediction). I'd be happy with 7 out of 10. I'm sure there are other ways of doing tarot but I'm pretty inexperienced and the type I personally want to test is the Celtic Cross style reading. It's the one that has impressed me the most. It gives you a whole set of things about the past and present then a few littler things about the future. The 'What is the situation with x?' question does seem the most flexible and likely to fit everyone. Happy with other suggestions for questions. 7 out of 10 seems a bit low of a hit rate, I'm looking for something a bit higher personally. Furthermore, in the event that the test gives us a positive result it won't make me a true believer. It'll just confuse me even more. Then I guess I'll either stop doing them or suggest a few more tests. Originally Posted by arthwollipot Everyone who volunteers, please send me a PM with the words "I volunteer" in the subject line. I will take the first ten people who do this. That'd include anyone who I've PM'd to confirm they've already volunteered on this string. Originally Posted by arthwollipot I agree with the above, with one stipulation: Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt I think Arthwollipot should not post* the names of the volunteers, nor should MrErisian know who they are. That way, he cannot use anything they have posted--consciously or subconsciously--towards shaping his reading(s). The questions should be as specific as possible. Hang on. I'll need some sort of name or something to concentrate on when I do these readings. Remember I'm not making a claim to have any psychic powers here. I just want to test this process which seems to have been so successful with my friends and family. In the past I've done a few over the phone so I guess that's a bit like being online. In a normal reading I'd know their name, I was thinking that just their forum name was a bit of a stretch but the idea of not actually knowing anything at all doesn't make any sense. I want this test to sort of explain previously 'successful' readings to me. This above method means I'd just be doing a load of random readings apropos of nothing. If you want to mask their online identity perhaps use the volunteer's real life names, if they're ok with revealing that to you? Only their first name obviously, to cut out any suggestion I googled anyone. In reality I'm honestly not intending to hunt round this forum (or the wider internet) trying to work stuff out about people. Ten tarot card readings is work enough as it is.
MrErisian Student Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 28

2nd November 2009, 11:32 PM	#89
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 25,287	I have five volunteers so far.
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Features the LHC and multi-dimensional portals, The wonder herb Tribulus, the Catholic church and homosexuals, John Edward visits, some information on Wilhelm Reich and Orgone, we get to know Dave the Happy Singer plus more! What's an "arthwollipot"?

3rd November 2009, 12:48 AM	#90
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 25,287	Seven volunteers.
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Features the LHC and multi-dimensional portals, The wonder herb Tribulus, the Catholic church and homosexuals, John Edward visits, some information on Wilhelm Reich and Orgone, we get to know Dave the Happy Singer plus more! What's an "arthwollipot"?

3rd November 2009, 12:53 AM	#91
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Pither Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford Australia Posts: 3,811	What was that thing back up there ^ with the pictures in it? Is that part of the test?
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

3rd November 2009, 12:54 AM	#92
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 25,287	Nine volunteers. One space left.
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Features the LHC and multi-dimensional portals, The wonder herb Tribulus, the Catholic church and homosexuals, John Edward visits, some information on Wilhelm Reich and Orgone, we get to know Dave the Happy Singer plus more! What's an "arthwollipot"?

3rd November 2009, 12:56 AM	#93
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 25,287	Originally Posted by Akhenaten What was that thing back up there ^ with the pictures in it? Is that part of the test? Nothing is part of the test yet. We haven't even decided on the questions.
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Features the LHC and multi-dimensional portals, The wonder herb Tribulus, the Catholic church and homosexuals, John Edward visits, some information on Wilhelm Reich and Orgone, we get to know Dave the Happy Singer plus more! What's an "arthwollipot"?

3rd November 2009, 06:53 AM	#94
Robert Oz Muse Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 668	Originally Posted by MrErisian Hang on. I'll need some sort of name or something to concentrate on when I do these readings. Remember I'm not making a claim to have any psychic powers here. I just want to test this process which seems to have been so successful with my friends and family. In the past I've done a few over the phone so I guess that's a bit like being online. In a normal reading I'd know their name, I was thinking that just their forum name was a bit of a stretch but the idea of not actually knowing anything at all doesn't make any sense. arthwollipot, What do you think of the following to accommodate MrErisian's request: - The list of ten should be made up of forum users who do not use their first names as part of their user names and do not sign their posts with their real names. - The users who are willing, reveal their first names ONLY to arthwollipot. - Arthwollipot provides MrErisian with the first names of the sitters. - Arthwollipot is the only person who is aware of the forum users' real names and agrees not to release the details. - Likewise, MrErisian should not reveal the names of people he has read for. By allowing MrErisian real names for the test, he can at least be confident that everything has been done to ensure a fair test from his point of view. Forum users who are unwilling to reveal their real names to arthwollipot can pull out of the test and be replaced by willing participants.
	__________________ “Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!” – Homer Simpson Last edited by Robert Oz; 3rd November 2009 at 07:14 AM.

3rd November 2009, 07:25 AM	#95
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 9,830	Originally Posted by Robert Oz arthwollipot, What do you think of the following to accommodate MrErisian's request: - The list of ten should be made up of forum users who do not use their first names as part of their user names and do not sign their posts with their real names. - The users who are willing, reveal their first names ONLY to arthwollipot. - Arthwollipot provides MrErisian with the first names of the sitters. - Arthwollipot is the only person who is aware of the forum users' real names and agrees not to release the details. - Likewise, MrErisian should not reveal the names of people he has read for. By allowing MrErisian real names for the test, he can at least be confident that everything has been done to ensure a fair test from his point of view. Forum users who are unwilling to reveal their real names to arthwollipot can pull out of the test and be replaced by willing participants. I can agree to that. I believe I can trust Arth with a first name... and if it makes MrErisian more comfortable to have a name to associate with a bunch of bits and bytes, I'm for it.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Microsoft is NOT the Borg Collective... the Borg have better tech support. Eleri

3rd November 2009, 07:26 AM	#96
Robert Oz Muse Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 668	Originally Posted by arthwollipot We need to all agree on the specific wording of the questions before any test will take place. The questions should be as specific as possible. For the purposes of this test, I think the 'What is the current situation in relation to...' type question is most appropriate. I understand it isn't as specific as you possibly had in mind, but MrErisian did say he would make the readings as specific as possible. With a general question like 'What is the current situation in relation to...', he has an opportunity to flesh out a decent background that the sitters should easily be able to identify with if tarot really works. What about something like this: 1. What is the current situation in relation to love life / relationships? 2. What is the current situation in relation to education / career? 3. What is the current situation in relation to relationship with parents? 4. What is the current situation in relation to place of abode? 5. What is the current situation in relation to hobbies / interests? 6. What is the current situation in relation to family (i.e. married, children)?
	__________________ “Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!” – Homer Simpson

3rd November 2009, 07:28 AM	#97
Pure_Argent Certified Castlevania Fanboy Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Clock Tower Boss Room Posts: 2,572	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz I can agree to that. I believe I can trust Arth with a first name... and if it makes MrErisian more comfortable to have a name to associate with a bunch of bits and bytes, I'm for it. Just the first name? I can't really see the harm in telling anyone your FIRST name. First and last, yeah, that could be dangerous, but there must be hundreds of people out there who share my first name.
	__________________ "What is a man? Just a miserable little pile of secrets!" - Dracula, Castlevania "Knowing is so much sweeter than wanting and believing." - cgordon

3rd November 2009, 07:30 AM	#99
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 9,830	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent Just the first name? I can't really see the harm in telling anyone your FIRST name. First and last, yeah, that could be dangerous, but there must be hundreds of people out there who share my first name. Google Results for Rumplestilskin Argent 58,200 results. So you're secret's safe with us. Oops.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Microsoft is NOT the Borg Collective... the Borg have better tech support. Eleri

3rd November 2009, 07:32 AM	#100
Pure_Argent Certified Castlevania Fanboy Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Clock Tower Boss Room Posts: 2,572	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Google Results for Rumplestilskin Argent 58,200 results. So you're secret's safe with us. Oops. Curse you, Foolmewunz! Now how am I supposed to get babies?
	__________________ "What is a man? Just a miserable little pile of secrets!" - Dracula, Castlevania "Knowing is so much sweeter than wanting and believing." - cgordon

3rd November 2009, 07:39 AM	#101
Robert Oz Muse Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 668	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz 7. What is the current situation/outlook as to health I can't believe I didn't think of that one. I was racking my brains. I suppose if I gave my list to a cold reader, he or she could comfortably make a side prediction that I don't have any health issues and am quite healthy. Even the questions you ask (and don't ask) provide clues to cold readers. Another reason why the link between user name and real name must remain anonymous.
	__________________ “Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!” – Homer Simpson

3rd November 2009, 08:44 AM	#102
Teapots Happen Student Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 35	Originally Posted by Akhenaten What was that thing back up there ^ with the pictures in it? Is that part of the test? Oops. Nope, just my anecdotal story about my first time ever using tarot cards, which seemed quite appropriate after reading the beginning of this thread ... not realizing it had progressed into talk of testing in later pages. Carry on ...

3rd November 2009, 09:00 AM	#103
Nursefoxfire Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 467	Originally Posted by Teapots Happen Oops. Nope, just my anecdotal story about my first time ever using tarot cards, which seemed quite appropriate after reading the beginning of this thread ... not realizing it had progressed into talk of testing in later pages. Carry on ... I thought your story was interesting, and it demonstrated brilliantly what arthwollipot said in an earlier post. Your tarot cards were used to nudge you into making decisions that you needed to focus on. They don't have any inherent "powers", but using them allowed you to think about issues that were bothering you, and enabled you to get some resolution. I used a Lover's I-Ching some years back (sort of as a joke) to think over a decision I needed to make about two men in my life. I found myself re-doing bad throws in order to come up with results I honestly didn't know I wanted. Afterward I wondered if I'd cheated in some way, but then came to my senses and realized I was using the coins to bring to the surface what I subconsciously wanted all along.

3rd November 2009, 09:04 AM	#104
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Pither Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford Australia Posts: 3,811	Originally Posted by Teapots Happen Oops. Nope, just my anecdotal story about my first time ever using tarot cards, which seemed quite appropriate after reading the beginning of this thread ... not realizing it had progressed into talk of testing in later pages. Carry on ... Kewlies. I was just bein' silly anyway.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

3rd November 2009, 09:34 AM	#105
volatile Scholar and a Gentleman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Uncanny Valley Posts: 6,149	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I believe that I can speak with a certain amount of experience on this subject, having been a Tarot/Rune reader for many years during my neopagan phase. I still have my cards and drag them out every now and again. They're anything but a game, in my opinion, but let me explain why before anyone jumps in. First thing I will say here is: pay attention to athon. He's a really smart guy, and he's hit the nail right on the head from his first post in this thread. Now. The "power" of Tarot (such as it is) is the power of symbolism. I like to use a deck with detailed illustrations, such as the Rider-Waite, or my personal favourite Norse Tarot. Each card has a situation illustrated on it, and when you draw these out randomly, you make connections between them. That's what people do - they make patterns. Each card has a carefully-constructed story associated with it - or rather, part of a story. You need very little assistance to link these independent story pieces together, and even less to relate it to something in your own life - especially if you approach the subject with an a priori assumption that it is going to relate to your life, which each and every querent does. It has been my experience that the stories generated randomly by the Tarot have a tendency to illuminate, or clarify, someone's thinking on a subject. They're a assistant to decision making. Let me use an analogy. When you flip a coin to make a decision, how many possible outcomes are there? Two? Wrong. There are actually four possible outcomes to a coin-flip-assisted decision: a heads you like, a heads you don't like, a tails you like, and a tails you don't like. Flipping the coin helps you to decide what option you prefer by "forcing" you to take one or the other. How many times have you said "heads hamburger, tails salad", flipped heads and decided "you know what? I think I'll just have a salad," contrary to the result of the flip? Tarot works the same way. By putting symbols in your way, you can identify options and make decisions that you otherwise would vacillate over, or be ambivalent about. Tarot, like a coin flip, is a decision-making tool. Should I quit my job because I hate my boss? Nine swords suggests that you're overreacting to the situation. Five coins indicates possible financial difficulties. The Sun shows that there is a brighter future ahead. Okay, I won't quit my job. Can the Tarot predict future events? It depends on what your definition of predict is. Certainly it can form part of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I didn't quit my job because of what the cards said, and now the boss I hate has retired. Did the cards predict that? It depends on your interpretation. Certainly the "brighter future" would not have happened if I had ignored the cards and quit my job, and then I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But the fact that humans are pattern-makers, and the well-known phenomenon of confirmation bias, means that I will attribute more meaning to the cards than is inherent in the images alone. Fantastic post. Thank you for laying that out so concisely.
	__________________ - ""My tribe has a saying: 'If you're bleeding, look for a man with scars'" - Leela, Doctor Who 'Robots of Death'.

3rd November 2009, 12:09 PM	#106
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 13,167	I have to give my wife's interpretation of the 8 of swords;given at a SCA event: The lady has Kinky Tastes......

3rd November 2009, 05:09 PM	#107
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 25,287	I have my ten volunteers, and have sent each of them a PM confirming their participation. I don't see any reason why first names should be used at all. We can operate anonymously, surely?
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Features the LHC and multi-dimensional portals, The wonder herb Tribulus, the Catholic church and homosexuals, John Edward visits, some information on Wilhelm Reich and Orgone, we get to know Dave the Happy Singer plus more! What's an "arthwollipot"?

3rd November 2009, 05:14 PM	#108
CptColumbo Just One More Question Join Date: May 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 7,424	"I once played poker with a set of Tarot cards. I got a full house and three people at the table dropped dead." - Steven Wright
	__________________ I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office" The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling

3rd November 2009, 05:20 PM	#109
dlorde Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 529	Originally Posted by Careyp74 Anyone with the courtesy of not making us read a whole dlorde post... Ow, harsh Actually, it wasn't too far off - I thought arthwollipot expanded on it very well
dlorde Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 529	Last edited by dlorde; 3rd November 2009 at 05:22 PM.

3rd November 2009, 05:23 PM	#110
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 25,287	Okay, I'd missed this: Originally Posted by MrErisian Hang on. I'll need some sort of name or something to concentrate on when I do these readings. Remember I'm not making a claim to have any psychic powers here. I just want to test this process which seems to have been so successful with my friends and family. In the past I've done a few over the phone so I guess that's a bit like being online. In a normal reading I'd know their name, I was thinking that just their forum name was a bit of a stretch but the idea of not actually knowing anything at all doesn't make any sense. First names will be provided. There is a greater than zero number of volunteers whose first name may be determinable, so I will eliminate any such names and replace them with other volunteers. Originally Posted by Robert Oz What about something like this: 1. What is the current situation in relation to love life / relationships? 2. What is the current situation in relation to education / career? 3. What is the current situation in relation to relationship with parents? 4. What is the current situation in relation to place of abode? 5. What is the current situation in relation to hobbies / interests? 6. What is the current situation in relation to family (i.e. married, children)? I approve this list if it works for MrErisian. Can everyone I've sent a PM to about the challenge, please reply with your first name. I will then pass those names to Mr Erisian.
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Features the LHC and multi-dimensional portals, The wonder herb Tribulus, the Catholic church and homosexuals, John Edward visits, some information on Wilhelm Reich and Orgone, we get to know Dave the Happy Singer plus more! What's an "arthwollipot"? Last edited by arthwollipot; 3rd November 2009 at 05:26 PM.

3rd November 2009, 09:02 PM	#111
dropzone Muse Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 518	Originally Posted by politas I'd be very impressed if MrErisian can use the cards to tell me how many times I will be asked or invited by other people to sing at the folk festival coming up in a couple of weeks. This seems like a good example of a precise prediction that neither one of us has any great knowledge about. However, you just supplied a detail of your life and a cold reader would take it and run with it.
dropzone Muse Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 518

4th November 2009, 12:26 AM	#112
arthwollipot The Accidental Podcaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: On the other side of your screen. Posts: 25,287	I have first names for all but two of our participants. Can we get confirmation that the list of questions as presented earlier is okay?
	__________________ The Nonsense Podcast Features the LHC and multi-dimensional portals, The wonder herb Tribulus, the Catholic church and homosexuals, John Edward visits, some information on Wilhelm Reich and Orgone, we get to know Dave the Happy Singer plus more! What's an "arthwollipot"?

4th November 2009, 01:00 AM	#113
skullerello a force for cool Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 387	Eventho' I enjoy how this thread is progressing, I'll just throw my two cents in: I used to flip Tarot cards in a bar for drinks after hours. I also read palms, because one of the bar-tenders asked me if I could, and with enough drinks in me, I could "tap into the intuitive channel" and produce a copious amount of amazing information about the seekers I did readings for. Since very little ever escapes my attention, and I retain a great deal of minutia, and I can be fairly fast on my feet when the situation calls for it, I was a fine seer. I was a con. But it was at a bar, it was always after-hours, and all I asked was a drink or two. Everyone always applauded my "gift", and noone ever got hurt. But, I was a fake, fooling myself and all the gullable around me.
	__________________ www.StopSylvia.com

4th November 2009, 01:52 AM	#114
politas Evil Atheist Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 871	Originally Posted by dropzone However, you just supplied a detail of your life and a cold reader would take it and run with it. Yes, a practiced and intentional cold reader would. It's not a lot of information, though, and since I'm requesting a very precise forecast, and do not intend to further discuss anything in relation to the topic, it would be very remarkable if MrErisian could determine the number. Perhaps he could send his prediction in a PM to Arthwollipot, and I'll post the actual number after the festival, so that I'm blinded in the test. Just a side test, if MrErisian feels like it.
	__________________ Myk GENERATION X: The first time you see this, add something vaguely similar to your sig on any forum. So-called experiment.

4th November 2009, 03:46 AM	#115
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Pither Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford Australia Posts: 3,811	Originally Posted by skullerello Eventho' I enjoy how this thread is progressing, I'll just throw my two cents in: I used to flip Tarot cards in a bar for drinks after hours. I also read palms, because one of the bar-tenders asked me if I could, and with enough drinks in me, I could "tap into the intuitive channel" and produce a copious amount of amazing information about the seekers I did readings for. Since very little ever escapes my attention, and I retain a great deal of minutia, and I can be fairly fast on my feet when the situation calls for it, I was a fine seer. I was a con. But it was at a bar, it was always after-hours, and all I asked was a drink or two. Everyone always applauded my "gift", and noone ever got hurt. But, I was a fake, fooling myself and all the gullable around me. Much too hard on yourself. You were an entertainer, working for payment in kind, and obviously fairly popular because of it. I can't see anything wrong with that at all. I would have bought you a drink, even though I know it's ~~all rubbish~~ ~~not at all scientific~~ simply a decision-making tool. Go you!
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

4th November 2009, 10:56 AM	#116
JollyRoger Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Buggery's Island Posts: 437	I had a few experiences with Tarot cards, the art work is nothing short of amazing in most cases, the reading you get are very general and can be applied to almost anything, in addition people have a tendency to strive toward achieving what the Tarot cards predict for them on a subconscious level. Just for fun I had bought a pack of French Tarot cards that (aside from the 22 or so Major Arcana Cards and the fact that they where a bit larger) looked like a regular deck of cards written in French, I sorted them out so I had 52 playing cards and used to challenge people to a game of Rummy 500. Of all the hundreds of games I played I only lost one of them (the one where I was paying attention to the womans chest more so then the game) What I think used to happen is after starting the game they would ask "what kind of cards are these" I would tell them they were French Tarot cards I sorted them out would you like to see the others? after being told of the fact that they were playing Rummy 500 with Tarot cards they would ponder the long history and reputation of the Tarot deck and it started to distract them from the game, after that happed I just cleaned up, although I never felt comfortable using Tarot cards in a card game that involved money the thought had crossed my mind and If I knew how to play poker I may have tried. I like to think of my self as a skeptic with an open mind so just in case what they say about the Occult is true I did not wanna be a victim of it. Using Tarot cards and their reputation/history to distract people from the game and taking all their money in the process did not seem to Kosher to me. Never hurts to be careful in some cases
	__________________ The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. Albert Einstein Last edited by JollyRoger; 4th November 2009 at 10:59 AM.