Shroud of Turin - Writing on shroud? - Page 2

Marduk · 22nd November 2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

I beieve the main argument of Shroud apologists is that a decaying body would have caused the shroud coverning it to dacay as well. Ergo, since it didn't decay, the Shroud proves Jesus didn't either. Hence their rejection of the results of the radiocarbon tests.

excellent, so they are saying that instead of decaying he got taller,
thats supposed to make sense is it.
hehe

kuroyume0161 · 22nd November 2009, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Marduk

excellent, so they are saying that instead of decaying he got taller,
thats supposed to make sense is it.
hehe

Jesus 'Kareem Abdul-Jabbar' Christ. He was muslim before muslim was 'in' and was a hit on both the Pontius Pilate and Herod Agrippa courts.

Vortigern99 · 22nd November 2009, 09:24 PM

"Do not eat."

Marduk · 22nd November 2009, 09:59 PM

"do not open til christmas"

Vortigern99 · 22nd November 2009, 10:02 PM

"Return to sender."

RoboTimbo · 22nd November 2009, 10:42 PM

"Shroud must be activated before first use. Call 1-800-RESRECT.

Dry clean only. Keep clear of open flame."

wuschel · 23rd November 2009, 04:52 AM

"3 for the price of 1!"

Soapy Sam · 23rd November 2009, 04:08 PM

Seriously- Has anyone seen illustration / photos of this "writing"?

I'm betting this is lowell's canals all over again.

learner · 23rd November 2009, 04:45 PM

kkk ?

John Jones · 23rd November 2009, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Hux

I cannot understand the rush to involve scientific observation. Science can say with certainty only one thing; it is not what it purports to be.

It's an appeal to pseudo-science to support their faith, and that I cannot understand either.

Religious zealotry WRT the shroud will attack all manners of science and scientists at every opportunity, until the occasional scientist lends support to its 1st century origin, then science is suddenly an authority on the authenticity of the shroud.

Marduk · 23rd November 2009, 05:16 PM

"contains 180 lbs genuine hebrew jerky"

TimCallahan · 23rd November 2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Marduk

excellent, so they are saying that instead of decaying he got taller,
thats supposed to make sense is it.
hehe

See, the way it works is this: Those of us who don't resurrect lose moisture, causing our desicating bodies to shrink. Hence the appearence of hair and fingernails growing, actually caused by the flesh shrinking away from nails and hair follicles.

It stands to reason, then, that bodies that resurrect do the opposite. Ergo, Jesus got taller.

Marduk · 23rd November 2009, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

See, the way it works is this: Those of us who don't resurrect lose moisture, causing our desicating bodies to shrink. Hence the appearence of hair and fingernails growing, actually caused by the flesh shrinking away from nails and hair follicles.

It stands to reason, then, that bodies that resurrect do the opposite. Ergo, Jesus got taller.

ah I knew there would be a perfectly rational and scientific answer

you ever considered a career in the church ?

Hux · 24th November 2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by John Jones

It's an appeal to pseudo-science to support their faith, and that I cannot understand either.

Religious zealotry WRT the shroud will attack all manners of science and scientists at every opportunity, until the occasional scientist lends support to its 1st century origin, then science is suddenly an authority on the authenticity of the shroud.

One wonders if the Templeton foundation ever tried to get involved in this? Its right up their alley.

Its the hypocrisy that gets me. Suppose the radiometric dating had been right on the button; Bingo - 1st century cloth, do you suppose any one of the religious nutjobs would have had any complaint over the dating?

I am sure it will be a Marks and Spencer label.

commandlinegamer · 24th November 2009, 02:33 PM

'Do not stack more than 5 high'

Seriously, though it just points to the fact that George Lucas was not the first guy to understand the value of merchandising. This is the medieval equivalent of the Boba Fett action figure.

TimCallahan · 24th November 2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Hux

. . . Its the hypocrisy that gets me. Suppose the radiometric dating had been right on the button; Bingo - 1st century cloth, do you suppose any one of the religious nutjobs would have had any complaint over the dating? . . . .

Exactly. This is one of the hallmarks of pseudoscience: If the results you get don't match what you're looking for, you diss the technology. Had the radiocarbon result been first century, Shroud enthusiasts would have been trumpeting them to the skies, saying science had proved this was the funeral shroud of Jesus.

That's why pseudoscience never dies: Unlike true science - or any other honest discipline, for that matter - pseudoscience won't commit to a stand-or-fall test by which its claims can be either verified or falsified. This is equally true for the Shroud of Turin and the so-called "man-prints" found along with dinosaur footprints at the Paluxy river in Texas: The latter have been totally debunked, yet new YEC books keep coming out either asserting the scientific validity of the prints or saying, "The jury is still out on the Paluxy river prints."

Psi Baba · 24th November 2009, 02:39 PM

"By opening this shroud, the user agrees to the attached EULA"

joobz · 24th November 2009, 02:42 PM

Hidden Text on the Shroud?

I just can't cotton to that idea. I get the feeling the evidence is rather threadbare. Maybe if these researchers would stop Hemming and hawing about presenting this information, we'd be able to iron out what these writings actually are.

Although, I'm likely to become steamed if they keep pressing this issue.

Oh, Darn it!

Vortigern99 · 24th November 2009, 02:57 PM

Ouch. That's a veritable laundry list of problems with the Shroud.

I'm sure it will all come out in the wash.

kuroyume0161 · 24th November 2009, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by joobz

Hidden Text on the Shroud?

I just can't cotton to that idea. I get the feeling the evidence is rather threadbare. Maybe if these researchers would stop Hemming and hawing about presenting this information, we'd be able to iron out what these writings actually are.

Although, I'm likely to become steamed if they keep pressing this issue.

Oh, Darn it!

Don't Stop that!

Barely readable text.

kuroyume0161 · 24th November 2009, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Psi Baba

"By opening this shroud, the user agrees to the attached EULA"

LOL

1. GRANT OF LICENSE

Subject to the terms below, God hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to display and to use The Shroud of Turin (‘article of faith’). Under this license, you may: (i) display and use the article of faith on any altar for your personal, internal use and (ii) copy the article of faith for back-up or archival purposes. (iii) You may not distribute the article of faith to others without first obtaining the required licenses, where applicable. (etc.)

Hux · 24th November 2009, 03:28 PM

So Jesus was creative with fabrics.

He wasn't ... was He? Can't be surely.

Tricky · 24th November 2009, 05:23 PM

Mentioned on some other threads (which I can't find), the most obvious thing about the Shroud of Turin that proves to me it wasn't a burial shroud that mysteriously got "imprinted" with the face of the person that it was on is the fact that if you wrap a body in a shroud and let it... um... soak in, when you unwrap the shroud, you will get a big distortion on the sides of the face and body where the shroud wrapped around it. You will essentially be unfolding a three-dimensional impression then lying it flat. It won't look a thing like a painting of a human face. No shroud-believer has ever been able to explain this phenomenon of how his image was projected onto a two dimensional surface and retained painting-like proportions.

I Ratant · 24th November 2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Marduk

excellent, so they are saying that instead of decaying he got taller,
thats supposed to make sense is it.
hehe

.
How much "decay" might one observe in the three days?

rjh01 · 24th November 2009, 06:08 PM

Jesus was not dead for three days. He died on Friday night and was alive again on Sunday morning after the sabbath. That is only a day and half.
Ref Luke 23:56 - 24:3

Now carry on.

JimBenArm · 24th November 2009, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

Jesus was not dead for three days. He died on Friday night and was alive again on Sunday morning after the sabbath. That is only a day and half.
Ref Luke 23:56 - 24:3

Now carry on.

Obviously, you don't understand the New (Testament) Math.

Tricky · 24th November 2009, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

Obviously, you don't understand the New (Testament) Math.

It's not New Testament Math. It's Lawyer Math. "Any day or part of a day is billable..."

Hux · 26th November 2009, 04:55 AM

I have seen so many (modern) successful attempts to duplicate the appearance of the shroud, using only materials available in the medieval ages, that it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to consider any other creative method of the shroud.

The same people who yearn for this bit of cloth to have some validity, would buy 'Crown of Thorns' fridge magnets.

tsig · 26th November 2009, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Mentioned on some other threads (which I can't find), the most obvious thing about the Shroud of Turin that proves to me it wasn't a burial shroud that mysteriously got "imprinted" with the face of the person that it was on is the fact that if you wrap a body in a shroud and let it... um... soak in, when you unwrap the shroud, you will get a big distortion on the sides of the face and body where the shroud wrapped around it. You will essentially be unfolding a three-dimensional impression then lying it flat. It won't look a thing like a painting of a human face. No shroud-believer has ever been able to explain this phenomenon of how his image was projected onto a two dimensional surface and retained painting-like proportions.

It was the "energy of resurrection" that imprinted the image on the shroud.

At least that's what the book said.

kuroyume0161 · 26th November 2009, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by tsig

It was the "energy of resurrection" that imprinted the image on the shroud.

Which requires a question (to those who propose the idea): Is there any evidence of this new form of energy called 'resurrection energy'?

Thought not. That ends it. There is no evidence of virgin births, miracles, or resurrections.

There is also a mapping problem with the shroud image and how it would have draped the body, as Tricky mentioned. I'm going to do a bit of research using shroud images and 3D CG to see if there is any *plausible* mapping. In Mythbusters' fashion, I'll try to replicate it using reality and then see what it takes to actually accomplish it (if we were simply to assume that it could be done). I expect Jesus to be a very distorted human when one maps the image back to what might have been able to create it.

John Jones · 26th November 2009, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by tsig

It was the "energy of resurrection" that imprinted the image on the shroud.

At least that's what the book said.

I haven't read the book, but I've seen the 'energy requirements' to create the image expressed in megaton nuke equivalents or some such nonsense.

That one slays me.

kuroyume0161 · 26th November 2009, 12:11 PM

Anybody have a reference to a high quality online shroud image - flat showing the entire shroud cloth? I found one that is 2286x613 in jpg format but even larger and in a lossless format would be better.

fromdownunder · 26th November 2009, 01:40 PM

Everyone is missing the most obvious answer. Jesus was actually crucified in the 1300's.

Norm

Marduk · 2nd December 2009, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

See, the way it works is this: Those of us who don't resurrect lose moisture, causing our desicating bodies to shrink. Hence the appearence of hair and fingernails growing, actually caused by the flesh shrinking away from nails and hair follicles.

It stands to reason, then, that bodies that resurrect do the opposite. Ergo, Jesus got taller.

See my brain does work sometimes, its taken me a week to come up with this,
if Jesus got a foot taller when he resurrected then why doesn't it say in the bible somewhere
"and Jesus appeared to his disciples three days after his death and Lo he was now half a cubit taller"

hmmm
perhaps, just perhaps, his feet had deflated due to the holes and that accounted for the extra he had gained in height

Hux · 2nd December 2009, 11:18 AM

He was indeed taller but his cronies just assumed it was because He was hovering.

22nd November 2009, 03:17 PM	#41
Marduk Dragon Killer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 3,073	Originally Posted by TimCallahan I beieve the main argument of Shroud apologists is that a decaying body would have caused the shroud coverning it to dacay as well. Ergo, since it didn't decay, the Shroud proves Jesus didn't either. Hence their rejection of the results of the radiocarbon tests. excellent, so they are saying that instead of decaying he got taller, thats supposed to make sense is it. hehe
	__________________ Senno Ecto Gama ĝae haš dug zae ama kibid "Stupid humans" (Wollery) "Kill all humans" (Bender) "for while heaven may be closed I am always open, even on Christmas." (Lucifer)

22nd November 2009, 09:24 PM	#43
Vortigern99 Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,028	"Do not eat."
	__________________ "Chance makes playthings of us all." -- Seneca

22nd November 2009, 09:59 PM	#44
Marduk Dragon Killer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 3,073	"do not open til christmas"
	__________________ Senno Ecto Gama ĝae haš dug zae ama kibid "Stupid humans" (Wollery) "Kill all humans" (Bender) "for while heaven may be closed I am always open, even on Christmas." (Lucifer)

22nd November 2009, 10:02 PM	#45
Vortigern99 Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,028	"Return to sender."
	__________________ "Chance makes playthings of us all." -- Seneca

22nd November 2009, 10:42 PM	#46
RoboTimbo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rachel, KS Posts: 4,563	"Shroud must be activated before first use. Call 1-800-RESRECT. Dry clean only. Keep clear of open flame."
	__________________ "For people involved in the War on Stupid, it's hard to resist the call to battle." - Darth Rotor

22nd November 2009, 08:55 PM	#42
kuroyume0161 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Calhan, CO, USA Posts: 1,233	Originally Posted by Marduk excellent, so they are saying that instead of decaying he got taller, thats supposed to make sense is it. hehe Jesus 'Kareem Abdul-Jabbar' Christ. He was muslim before muslim was 'in' and was a hit on both the Pontius Pilate and Herod Agrippa courts.

23rd November 2009, 04:52 AM	#47
wuschel Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 358	"3 for the price of 1!"
wuschel Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 358

23rd November 2009, 04:08 PM	#48
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 18,092	Seriously- Has anyone seen illustration / photos of this "writing"? I'm betting this is lowell's canals all over again.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 18,092

23rd November 2009, 04:45 PM	#49
learner Muse Join Date: May 2008 Location: A strange land Posts: 725	kkk ?
	__________________ "I would give my right arm to be ambidextrous" - My Mate Dave " How do you expect me to use my initiative if you wont tell me what to do?" - Dave again

23rd November 2009, 05:04 PM	#50
John Jones Thinker Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 249	Originally Posted by Hux I cannot understand the rush to involve scientific observation. Science can say with certainty only one thing; it is not what it purports to be. It's an appeal to pseudo-science to support their faith, and that I cannot understand either. Religious zealotry WRT the shroud will attack all manners of science and scientists at every opportunity, until the occasional scientist lends support to its 1st century origin, then science is suddenly an authority on the authenticity of the shroud.
John Jones Thinker Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 249

23rd November 2009, 05:16 PM	#51
Marduk Dragon Killer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 3,073	"contains 180 lbs genuine hebrew jerky"
	__________________ Senno Ecto Gama ĝae haš dug zae ama kibid "Stupid humans" (Wollery) "Kill all humans" (Bender) "for while heaven may be closed I am always open, even on Christmas." (Lucifer)

23rd November 2009, 06:08 PM	#52
TimCallahan Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,000	Originally Posted by Marduk excellent, so they are saying that instead of decaying he got taller, thats supposed to make sense is it. hehe See, the way it works is this: Those of us who don't resurrect lose moisture, causing our desicating bodies to shrink. Hence the appearence of hair and fingernails growing, actually caused by the flesh shrinking away from nails and hair follicles. It stands to reason, then, that bodies that resurrect do the opposite. Ergo, Jesus got taller.

23rd November 2009, 06:57 PM	#53
Marduk Dragon Killer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 3,073	Originally Posted by TimCallahan See, the way it works is this: Those of us who don't resurrect lose moisture, causing our desicating bodies to shrink. Hence the appearence of hair and fingernails growing, actually caused by the flesh shrinking away from nails and hair follicles. It stands to reason, then, that bodies that resurrect do the opposite. Ergo, Jesus got taller. ah I knew there would be a perfectly rational and scientific answer you ever considered a career in the church ?
	__________________ Senno Ecto Gama ĝae haš dug zae ama kibid "Stupid humans" (Wollery) "Kill all humans" (Bender) "for while heaven may be closed I am always open, even on Christmas." (Lucifer)

24th November 2009, 02:13 PM	#54
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	Originally Posted by John Jones It's an appeal to pseudo-science to support their faith, and that I cannot understand either. Religious zealotry WRT the shroud will attack all manners of science and scientists at every opportunity, until the occasional scientist lends support to its 1st century origin, then science is suddenly an authority on the authenticity of the shroud. One wonders if the Templeton foundation ever tried to get involved in this? Its right up their alley. Its the hypocrisy that gets me. Suppose the radiometric dating had been right on the button; Bingo - 1st century cloth, do you suppose any one of the religious nutjobs would have had any complaint over the dating? I am sure it will be a Marks and Spencer label.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	__________________ *...people of faith who are that intelligent they've only managed to fool themselves* - MARDUK

24th November 2009, 02:33 PM	#55
commandlinegamer Muse Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 815	'Do not stack more than 5 high' Seriously, though it just points to the fact that George Lucas was not the first guy to understand the value of merchandising. This is the medieval equivalent of the Boba Fett action figure.

24th November 2009, 02:38 PM	#56
TimCallahan Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,000	Originally Posted by Hux . . . Its the hypocrisy that gets me. Suppose the radiometric dating had been right on the button; Bingo - 1st century cloth, do you suppose any one of the religious nutjobs would have had any complaint over the dating? . . . . Exactly. This is one of the hallmarks of pseudoscience: If the results you get don't match what you're looking for, you diss the technology. Had the radiocarbon result been first century, Shroud enthusiasts would have been trumpeting them to the skies, saying science had proved this was the funeral shroud of Jesus. That's why pseudoscience never dies: Unlike true science - or any other honest discipline, for that matter - pseudoscience won't commit to a stand-or-fall test by which its claims can be either verified or falsified. This is equally true for the Shroud of Turin and the so-called "man-prints" found along with dinosaur footprints at the Paluxy river in Texas: The latter have been totally debunked, yet new YEC books keep coming out either asserting the scientific validity of the prints or saying, "The jury is still out on the Paluxy river prints."

24th November 2009, 02:39 PM	#57
Psi Baba Homo Skepticalis Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: On a recumbent bike Posts: 2,246	"By opening this shroud, the user agrees to the attached EULA"
	__________________ "I was afraid of this enormous emptiness, but my personal view is that when we die, we die, and we go from a state of something to a state of absolute nothingness; and I don’t believe for a second that there’s anything above or beyond or anything like that; and this makes me enormously secure." -- Ingmar Bergman

24th November 2009, 02:42 PM	#58
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Inside the Magical Murder Bag Posts: 11,809	Hidden Text on the Shroud? I just can't cotton to that idea. I get the feeling the evidence is rather threadbare. Maybe if these researchers would stop Hemming and hawing about presenting this information, we'd be able to iron out what these writings actually are. Although, I'm likely to become steamed if they keep pressing this issue. Oh, Darn it!
	__________________ "Joobz you can be something else sometimes."- DOC "Hopefully joobz can one day be totally objective and unbiased ..." - DOC

24th November 2009, 02:57 PM	#59
Vortigern99 Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,028	Ouch. That's a veritable laundry list of problems with the Shroud. I'm sure it will all come out in the wash.
	__________________ "Chance makes playthings of us all." -- Seneca

24th November 2009, 03:24 PM	#60
kuroyume0161 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Calhan, CO, USA Posts: 1,233	Originally Posted by joobz Hidden Text on the Shroud? I just can't cotton to that idea. I get the feeling the evidence is rather threadbare. Maybe if these researchers would stop Hemming and hawing about presenting this information, we'd be able to iron out what these writings actually are. Although, I'm likely to become steamed if they keep pressing this issue. Oh, Darn it! Don't Stop that! Barely readable text.

24th November 2009, 03:28 PM	#61
kuroyume0161 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Calhan, CO, USA Posts: 1,233	Originally Posted by Psi Baba "By opening this shroud, the user agrees to the attached EULA" LOL 1. GRANT OF LICENSE Subject to the terms below, God hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to display and to use The Shroud of Turin (‘article of faith’). Under this license, you may: (i) display and use the article of faith on any altar for your personal, internal use and (ii) copy the article of faith for back-up or archival purposes. (iii) You may not distribute the article of faith to others without first obtaining the required licenses, where applicable. (etc.)

24th November 2009, 05:23 PM	#63
Tricky Radical centrist Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 27,284	Mentioned on some other threads (which I can't find), the most obvious thing about the Shroud of Turin that proves to me it wasn't a burial shroud that mysteriously got "imprinted" with the face of the person that it was on is the fact that if you wrap a body in a shroud and let it... um... soak in, when you unwrap the shroud, you will get a big distortion on the sides of the face and body where the shroud wrapped around it. You will essentially be unfolding a three-dimensional impression then lying it flat. It won't look a thing like a painting of a human face. No shroud-believer has ever been able to explain this phenomenon of how his image was projected onto a two dimensional surface and retained painting-like proportions.
	Last edited by Tricky; 24th November 2009 at 05:25 PM.

24th November 2009, 05:29 PM	#64
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,588	Originally Posted by Marduk excellent, so they are saying that instead of decaying he got taller, thats supposed to make sense is it. hehe . How much "decay" might one observe in the three days?
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,588

24th November 2009, 06:08 PM	#65
rjh01 Fire Warden Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 9,810	Jesus was not dead for three days. He died on Friday night and was alive again on Sunday morning after the sabbath. That is only a day and half. Ref Luke 23:56 - 24:3 Now carry on.

24th November 2009, 06:36 PM	#66
JimBenArm Sir Barbarella of Corndogia Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 7,807	Originally Posted by rjh01 Jesus was not dead for three days. He died on Friday night and was alive again on Sunday morning after the sabbath. That is only a day and half. Ref Luke 23:56 - 24:3 Now carry on. Obviously, you don't understand the New (Testament) Math.
	__________________ ..........2B...........? \|----+----\| \|----+----( )-\| .....\|...........\| .....\|....2B.....\| .....+----\|/\|----+

24th November 2009, 06:56 PM	#67
Tricky Radical centrist Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 27,284	Originally Posted by JimBenArm Obviously, you don't understand the New (Testament) Math. It's not New Testament Math. It's Lawyer Math. "Any day or part of a day is billable..."

26th November 2009, 04:55 AM	#68
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	I have seen so many (modern) successful attempts to duplicate the appearance of the shroud, using only materials available in the medieval ages, that it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to consider any other creative method of the shroud. The same people who yearn for this bit of cloth to have some validity, would buy 'Crown of Thorns' fridge magnets.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	__________________ *...people of faith who are that intelligent they've only managed to fool themselves* - MARDUK

26th November 2009, 09:51 AM	#69
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6,870	Originally Posted by Tricky Mentioned on some other threads (which I can't find), the most obvious thing about the Shroud of Turin that proves to me it wasn't a burial shroud that mysteriously got "imprinted" with the face of the person that it was on is the fact that if you wrap a body in a shroud and let it... um... soak in, when you unwrap the shroud, you will get a big distortion on the sides of the face and body where the shroud wrapped around it. You will essentially be unfolding a three-dimensional impression then lying it flat. It won't look a thing like a painting of a human face. No shroud-believer has ever been able to explain this phenomenon of how his image was projected onto a two dimensional surface and retained painting-like proportions. It was the "energy of resurrection" that imprinted the image on the shroud. At least that's what the book said.

26th November 2009, 10:37 AM	#70
kuroyume0161 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Calhan, CO, USA Posts: 1,233	Originally Posted by tsig It was the "energy of resurrection" that imprinted the image on the shroud. Which requires a question (to those who propose the idea): Is there any evidence of this new form of energy called 'resurrection energy'? Thought not. That ends it. There is no evidence of virgin births, miracles, or resurrections. There is also a mapping problem with the shroud image and how it would have draped the body, as Tricky mentioned. I'm going to do a bit of research using shroud images and 3D CG to see if there is any plausible mapping. In Mythbusters' fashion, I'll try to replicate it using reality and then see what it takes to actually accomplish it (if we were simply to assume that it could be done). I expect Jesus to be a very distorted human when one maps the image back to what might have been able to create it.

26th November 2009, 10:54 AM	#71
John Jones Thinker Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 249	Originally Posted by tsig It was the "energy of resurrection" that imprinted the image on the shroud. At least that's what the book said. I haven't read the book, but I've seen the 'energy requirements' to create the image expressed in megaton nuke equivalents or some such nonsense. That one slays me.
John Jones Thinker Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 249

26th November 2009, 12:11 PM	#72
kuroyume0161 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Calhan, CO, USA Posts: 1,233	Anybody have a reference to a high quality online shroud image - flat showing the entire shroud cloth? I found one that is 2286x613 in jpg format but even larger and in a lossless format would be better.

26th November 2009, 01:40 PM	#73
fromdownunder Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,527	Everyone is missing the most obvious answer. Jesus was actually crucified in the 1300's. Norm

2nd December 2009, 09:42 AM	#74
Marduk Dragon Killer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 3,073	Originally Posted by TimCallahan See, the way it works is this: Those of us who don't resurrect lose moisture, causing our desicating bodies to shrink. Hence the appearence of hair and fingernails growing, actually caused by the flesh shrinking away from nails and hair follicles. It stands to reason, then, that bodies that resurrect do the opposite. Ergo, Jesus got taller. See my brain does work sometimes, its taken me a week to come up with this, if Jesus got a foot taller when he resurrected then why doesn't it say in the bible somewhere "and Jesus appeared to his disciples three days after his death and Lo he was now half a cubit taller" hmmm perhaps, just perhaps, his feet had deflated due to the holes and that accounted for the extra he had gained in height
	__________________ Senno Ecto Gama ĝae haš dug zae ama kibid "Stupid humans" (Wollery) "Kill all humans" (Bender) "for while heaven may be closed I am always open, even on Christmas." (Lucifer)

2nd December 2009, 11:18 AM	#75
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	He was indeed taller but his cronies just assumed it was because He was hovering.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,064	__________________ *...people of faith who are that intelligent they've only managed to fool themselves* - MARDUK