Time to junk the term "UFO"? - Page 2

Denver · 12th November 2011, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Marcus

UFO works fine for objects that are unidentified, we really just need to add another term for the creduloids that are really talking about aliens, UFAO has worked well in some of the threads.

I was going this way too. The term UFO is too entrenched to be replaced, but it would be nice to promote some other term that would clearly demonstrate the mindset of the person claiming to have seen one. I think many people of the woo persuasion try to keep their claims always a bit vague, even to themselves, to avoid critical examination. If they had to claim ALIEN when they mean ALIEN, it would not only give a quick heads-up to anyone listening (or surfing past the History Channel), but also might make the claimant think twice about their assumptions, especially when choosing which term to use.

Correa Neto · 12th November 2011, 07:30 AM

I say junk UFOlogy.

SezMe · 12th November 2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Gawdzilla

And thus letting them go unchallenged?

Yes. I see it as analogous to the fact that leading lights in biology now refuse to debate creationists, and properly so IMO. All it does is give them a platform for nonsense. Similarly, Schermer doesn't debate the god botherers any more, for the same reason. All it does is make it seem as if they have equal standing.

Yes, let the nutters claim UFO=alien. Their little cult can revel in their inconsequential "win" while everyone with two brain cells to rub together can happily ignore them and deal with reality.

Brian-M · 12th November 2011, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Gawdzilla

I'd go with Currently Unclassified, Aerial. But the "not terrestrial" is just going to feed the lunatics. And that is something I'm trying to get away from.

But "aerial" means in the air (or atmosphere). This wouldn't describe planets or satellites above the atmosphere. Non terrestrial simply means not on the ground, so it would include planets and satellites. (Possibly even boats.) The next time some idiot mistakes the moon for a UFO, it'd be good to have an acronym that neither implies flying nor in the atmosphere.

EHocking · 14th November 2011, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Correa Neto

I say junk UFOlogy.

I say UFOlogy is junk.

Stray Cat · 14th November 2011, 04:38 AM

I say at the moment "junk" is quite valuable. To equate UFOlogy with junk is to overprice it.

EHocking · 14th November 2011, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by yeti101

the british ministry of defense always used the term UAP. Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon.

This works better than most proposed so far, IMO.

Quote:

This is much better than UFO because the words "flying" indicate some form of propulsion and "object" implies something solid. Which is not always the case e.g light reflections & ball lighting.

Ufologists won't like UAP they much prefer UFO because it leads their target audience down a certain path of thinking. UFO is now a substitute for "alien spaceship" in the minds of believers.

Ayup.

I can't see UFO being replaced in mainstream usage in the near (or even distant) future.

EHocking · 14th November 2011, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

I say at the moment "junk" is quite valuable. To equate UFOlogy with junk is to overprice it.

Although UFOlogy seems to have a longer recycling life than other, similarly mundane junk.

John Albert · 14th November 2011, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by EHocking

I say UFOlogy is junk.

There's certainly lots of junk up in the sky that can easily be observed as UFOs.

Correa Neto · 14th November 2011, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by EHocking

Although UFOlogy seems to have a longer recycling life than other, similarly mundane junk.

Junk is recycled to become something useful.

UFOlogy recycles the junk it is composed of in to... Junk.

The very same old anecdotes, blurry and/or hoaxed images are presented/reinterpreted countless times, never becoming anything other than what they actually are- junk.

Psi Baba · 14th November 2011, 09:59 AM

In the movie Repo Man, UFO stood for United Fruitcake Outlet, which says a lot.

Gawdzilla · 15th November 2011, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by Psi Baba

In the movie Repo Man, UFO stood for United Fruitcake Outlet, which says a lot.

And that was a front organization for a guerrilla group, IIRC.

Gawdzilla · 15th November 2011, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Yes. I see it as analogous to the fact that leading lights in biology now refuse to debate creationists, and properly so IMO. All it does is give them a platform for nonsense. Similarly, Schermer doesn't debate the god botherers any more, for the same reason. All it does is make it seem as if they have equal standing.

Yes, let the nutters claim UFO=alien. Their little cult can revel in their inconsequential "win" while everyone with two brain cells to rub together can happily ignore them and deal with reality.

I'm not in this to debate with them, I'm in it to speak to the undecideds.

Gawdzilla · 15th November 2011, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

But "aerial" means in the air (or atmosphere). This wouldn't describe planets or satellites above the atmosphere. Non terrestrial simply means not on the ground, so it would include planets and satellites. (Possibly even boats.) The next time some idiot mistakes the moon for a UFO, it'd be good to have an acronym that neither implies flying nor in the atmosphere.

I think the Believers would be thrilled to get a change that included "non terrestrial" because they would immediately distort that to be "not of this
Earth, therefor aliens".

12th November 2011, 07:30 AM	#42
Correa Neto Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hunting rocks somewhere in Brazil Posts: 7,232	I say junk UFOlogy.
	__________________ Racism, sexism, ignorance, homophobia, intolerance, extremism, authoritarianism, environmental disasters, politically correct crap, violence at sport stadiums, slavery, poverty, wars, people who disagree with me: Together we can find the cure Oh, and together we can find a cure to religion too…

12th November 2011, 06:47 PM	#44
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,382	Originally Posted by Gawdzilla I'd go with Currently Unclassified, Aerial. But the "not terrestrial" is just going to feed the lunatics. And that is something I'm trying to get away from. But "aerial" means in the air (or atmosphere). This wouldn't describe planets or satellites above the atmosphere. Non terrestrial simply means not on the ground, so it would include planets and satellites. (Possibly even boats.) The next time some idiot mistakes the moon for a UFO, it'd be good to have an acronym that neither implies flying nor in the atmosphere.
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

14th November 2011, 04:35 AM	#45
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,417	Originally Posted by Correa Neto I say junk UFOlogy. I say UFOlogy is junk.
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,417	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke Prayer: "a sophisticated way of pleading with thunderstorms." T.Pratchett "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite Forum Birdwatching Webpage

14th November 2011, 04:38 AM	#46
Stray Cat Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 6,664	I say at the moment "junk" is quite valuable. To equate UFOlogy with junk is to overprice it.
	__________________ It's only my madness that stops me from going insane!

14th November 2011, 04:39 AM	#47
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,417	Originally Posted by yeti101 the british ministry of defense always used the term UAP. Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. This works better than most proposed so far, IMO. Quote: This is much better than UFO because the words "flying" indicate some form of propulsion and "object" implies something solid. Which is not always the case e.g light reflections & ball lighting. Ufologists won't like UAP they much prefer UFO because it leads their target audience down a certain path of thinking. UFO is now a substitute for "alien spaceship" in the minds of believers. Ayup. I can't see UFO being replaced in mainstream usage in the near (or even distant) future.
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,417	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke Prayer: "a sophisticated way of pleading with thunderstorms." T.Pratchett "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite Forum Birdwatching Webpage

12th November 2011, 06:47 AM	#41
Denver Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 6,678	Originally Posted by Marcus UFO works fine for objects that are unidentified, we really just need to add another term for the creduloids that are really talking about aliens, UFAO has worked well in some of the threads. I was going this way too. The term UFO is too entrenched to be replaced, but it would be nice to promote some other term that would clearly demonstrate the mindset of the person claiming to have seen one. I think many people of the woo persuasion try to keep their claims always a bit vague, even to themselves, to avoid critical examination. If they had to claim ALIEN when they mean ALIEN, it would not only give a quick heads-up to anyone listening (or surfing past the History Channel), but also might make the claimant think twice about their assumptions, especially when choosing which term to use.

12th November 2011, 02:05 PM	#43
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 16,641	Originally Posted by Gawdzilla And thus letting them go unchallenged? Yes. I see it as analogous to the fact that leading lights in biology now refuse to debate creationists, and properly so IMO. All it does is give them a platform for nonsense. Similarly, Schermer doesn't debate the god botherers any more, for the same reason. All it does is make it seem as if they have equal standing. Yes, let the nutters claim UFO=alien. Their little cult can revel in their inconsequential "win" while everyone with two brain cells to rub together can happily ignore them and deal with reality.

14th November 2011, 04:42 AM	#48
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,417	Originally Posted by Stray Cat I say at the moment "junk" is quite valuable. To equate UFOlogy with junk is to overprice it. Although UFOlogy seems to have a longer recycling life than other, similarly mundane junk.
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,417	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke Prayer: "a sophisticated way of pleading with thunderstorms." T.Pratchett "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite Forum Birdwatching Webpage Last edited by EHocking; 14th November 2011 at 04:43 AM. Reason: gramma

14th November 2011, 08:04 AM	#49
John Albert Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,143	Originally Posted by EHocking I say UFOlogy is junk. There's certainly lots of junk up in the sky that can easily be observed as UFOs.
John Albert Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,143	__________________ “In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.” —Mark Twain

14th November 2011, 08:37 AM	#50
Correa Neto Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hunting rocks somewhere in Brazil Posts: 7,232	Originally Posted by EHocking Although UFOlogy seems to have a longer recycling life than other, similarly mundane junk. Junk is recycled to become something useful. UFOlogy recycles the junk it is composed of in to... Junk. The very same old anecdotes, blurry and/or hoaxed images are presented/reinterpreted countless times, never becoming anything other than what they actually are- junk.
	__________________ Racism, sexism, ignorance, homophobia, intolerance, extremism, authoritarianism, environmental disasters, politically correct crap, violence at sport stadiums, slavery, poverty, wars, people who disagree with me: Together we can find the cure Oh, and together we can find a cure to religion too…

14th November 2011, 09:59 AM	#51
Psi Baba Homo Skepticalis Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Occupying my barstool Posts: 3,209	In the movie Repo Man, UFO stood for United Fruitcake Outlet, which says a lot.
	__________________ Save Caribbean Rum! (seriously)

15th November 2011, 04:08 AM	#52
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,843	Originally Posted by Psi Baba In the movie Repo Man, UFO stood for United Fruitcake Outlet, which says a lot. And that was a front organization for a guerrilla group, IIRC.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

15th November 2011, 04:09 AM	#53
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,843	Originally Posted by SezMe Yes. I see it as analogous to the fact that leading lights in biology now refuse to debate creationists, and properly so IMO. All it does is give them a platform for nonsense. Similarly, Schermer doesn't debate the god botherers any more, for the same reason. All it does is make it seem as if they have equal standing. Yes, let the nutters claim UFO=alien. Their little cult can revel in their inconsequential "win" while everyone with two brain cells to rub together can happily ignore them and deal with reality. I'm not in this to debate with them, I'm in it to speak to the undecideds.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

15th November 2011, 04:11 AM	#54
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,843	Originally Posted by Brian-M But "aerial" means in the air (or atmosphere). This wouldn't describe planets or satellites above the atmosphere. Non terrestrial simply means not on the ground, so it would include planets and satellites. (Possibly even boats.) The next time some idiot mistakes the moon for a UFO, it'd be good to have an acronym that neither implies flying nor in the atmosphere. I think the Believers would be thrilled to get a change that included "non terrestrial" because they would immediately distort that to be "not of this Earth, therefor aliens".
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした