Is this a chauvinist or feminist comedy sketch?

dogjones · 1st December 2011, 11:27 AM

Have a look at this old Harry Enfield:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

And tell me whether the sketch is chauvinist or feminist, and why. No planet X for this one as it forces a choice. If you think the truth is somewhere in between, you can still come down more on one side than the other.

I'll give the context as to why I am asking later...

tyr_13 · 1st December 2011, 12:01 PM

It's clearly mocking traditional gender roles and outmoded ways of thinking. Am I missing something?

Tsukasa Buddha · 1st December 2011, 12:10 PM

In education classes we studied when people literally believed those things about educating women. Very funny and quite feminist in my mind.

IMST · 1st December 2011, 12:12 PM

I don't really think it's either. It's mocking old chauvinist ideas, but that doesn't make it necessarily feminist either. Seems to me it's only anti-chauvinist. I don't think chauvinism and feminism are a single scale.

Newtons Bit · 1st December 2011, 12:25 PM

It's definitely mocking chauvinism.

dogjones · 1st December 2011, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by IMST

I don't really think it's either. It's mocking old chauvinist ideas, but that doesn't make it necessarily feminist either. Seems to me it's only anti-chauvinist. I don't think chauvinism and feminism are a single scale.

Yes, agreed, but for the purposes of the poll, it's ok to equate anti-chauvinism and feminism.

gumboot · 1st December 2011, 12:42 PM

I can't select either. This sort of video is part of a widely-used comedic style that parodies old educational films. The purpose is to make fun of misguided and incorrect perception in earlier times, often accompanied by poor science.

Antiquehunter · 1st December 2011, 12:47 PM

Vote is invalid - no planet X option. You think you can force me to decide? Think again!

dogjones · 1st December 2011, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Antiquehunter

Vote is invalid - no planet X option. You think you can force me to decide? Think again!

I'm not talking about invalids, I'm talking about feminists.

sphenisc · 1st December 2011, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by gumboot

I can't select either. This sort of video is part of a widely-used comedic style that parodies old educational films. The purpose is to make fun of misguided and incorrect perception in earlier times, often accompanied by poor science.

Of course it is, it's obvious the gold standard should be replaced with a platinum standard - far more economically reliable and less dependent on supplies from unstable countries.

dogjones · 1st December 2011, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by sphenisc

Of course it is, it's obvious the gold standard should be replaced with a platinum standard - far more economically reliable and less dependent on supplies from unstable countries.

Darling, we're leaving!

sphenisc · 1st December 2011, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by dogjones

Darling, we're leaving!

Can I have a kitten??

Moon-Spinner · 1st December 2011, 01:31 PM

I don't see it as chauvinist or feminist, because it's really mocking those post-World War II social guidance films, and here's a good example of one:

Are You Popular?

Dave Rogers · 1st December 2011, 06:01 PM

Given the choices offered, feminism may not be right, but chauvinism is clearly wrong. Seen in the context of the time it was made and the TV history it's referring to, it's clearly mocking sexist attitudes of an earlier time.

Originally Posted by dogjones

I'll give the context as to why I am asking later...

Context, in fact, is crucial to understanding the point of the sketch. Viewed outside that context it could easily be misinterpreted, as could a lot of comedy.

Dave

Seismosaurus · 1st December 2011, 06:57 PM

I don't know that I'd consider it one or the other, especially.

Rather obviously, it's a parody of sexist attitudes and the casual acceptance such attitudes had in the past. But showing up how absurd such things look to modern sensibilities isn't really an endorsement or condemnation of anything.

JFrankA · 2nd December 2011, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by gumboot

I can't select either. This sort of video is part of a widely-used comedic style that parodies old educational films. The purpose is to make fun of misguided and incorrect perception in earlier times, often accompanied by poor science.

Originally Posted by Seismosaurus

I don't know that I'd consider it one or the other, especially.

Rather obviously, it's a parody of sexist attitudes and the casual acceptance such attitudes had in the past. But showing up how absurd such things look to modern sensibilities isn't really an endorsement or condemnation of anything.

I go along with Gumboot and Seismosaurus.

JFrankA · 2nd December 2011, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner

I don't see it as chauvinist or feminist, because it's really mocking those post-World War II social guidance films, and here's a good example of one:

Are You Popular?

At 03:45 "Teen Town"????? Teens had their own city back then????

(Sorry for being off topic....)

Noztradamus · 2nd December 2011, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by dogjones

Have a look at this old Harry Enfield:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

And tell me whether the sketch is chauvinist or feminist, and why. No planet X for this one as it forces a choice. If you think the truth is somewhere in between, you can still come down more on one side than the other.

I'll give the context as to why I am asking later...

No. No. chauvinist or feminist are not polar opposites; they're not even on the same scale.

Ladewig · 4th December 2011, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by dogjones

Have a look at this old Harry Enfield:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

And tell me whether the sketch is chauvinist or feminist, and why. No planet X for this one as it forces a choice. If you think the truth is somewhere in between, you can still come down more on one side than the other.

I'll give the context as to why I am asking later...

I am not sure I understand the question. Just looking at the chauvinist side: are you asking if it is intentionally chauvinistic, unintentionally chauvinistic, aimed at mocking chauvinists, aimed at amusing chauvinists, or something else?

You really, really needed a Planet X option on this one. You also needed both and neither as answer choices.

Soapy Sam · 5th December 2011, 01:33 AM

I can't view it here, but it seems to me the critical question about comedy would be "Is it funny"?

Feminist - right on!	25	96.15%
Chauvinist - oink!	1	3.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

1st December 2011, 11:27 AM	#1
dogjones Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bermuda Posts: 1,281	Is this a chauvinist or feminist comedy sketch? Have a look at this old Harry Enfield: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w And tell me whether the sketch is chauvinist or feminist, and why. No planet X for this one as it forces a choice. If you think the truth is somewhere in between, you can still come down more on one side than the other. I'll give the context as to why I am asking later...
	__________________ It's great being ideologically flexible. Last edited by dogjones; 1st December 2011 at 11:29 AM.

1st December 2011, 12:01 PM	#2
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,677	It's clearly mocking traditional gender roles and outmoded ways of thinking. Am I missing something?
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1st December 2011, 12:10 PM	#3
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,920	In education classes we studied when people literally believed those things about educating women. Very funny and quite feminist in my mind.
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1st December 2011, 12:12 PM	#4
IMST If Charlie Parker Was a Gunslinger, There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,130	I don't really think it's either. It's mocking old chauvinist ideas, but that doesn't make it necessarily feminist either. Seems to me it's only anti-chauvinist. I don't think chauvinism and feminism are a single scale.
	__________________ Creativity is more than just being different. Anybody can plan weird; that's easy. What's hard is to be as simple as Bach. Making the simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. - Charles Mingus

1st December 2011, 12:25 PM	#5
Newtons Bit Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,916	It's definitely mocking chauvinism.
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1st December 2011, 12:27 PM	#6
dogjones Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bermuda Posts: 1,281	Originally Posted by IMST I don't really think it's either. It's mocking old chauvinist ideas, but that doesn't make it necessarily feminist either. Seems to me it's only anti-chauvinist. I don't think chauvinism and feminism are a single scale. Yes, agreed, but for the purposes of the poll, it's ok to equate anti-chauvinism and feminism.
	__________________ It's great being ideologically flexible.

1st December 2011, 12:42 PM	#7
gumboot lorcutus.tolere Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 23,127	I can't select either. This sort of video is part of a widely-used comedic style that parodies old educational films. The purpose is to make fun of misguided and incorrect perception in earlier times, often accompanied by poor science.
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1st December 2011, 12:47 PM	#8
Antiquehunter Degenerate Gambler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: El Quisco, Chile; Sometimes, Kabul, Afghanistan; currently, Port Moresby, PNG Posts: 4,478	Vote is invalid - no planet X option. You think you can force me to decide? Think again!
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1st December 2011, 12:51 PM	#9
dogjones Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bermuda Posts: 1,281	Originally Posted by Antiquehunter Vote is invalid - no planet X option. You think you can force me to decide? Think again! I'm not talking about invalids, I'm talking about feminists.
	__________________ It's great being ideologically flexible.

1st December 2011, 01:03 PM	#10
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,750	Originally Posted by gumboot I can't select either. This sort of video is part of a widely-used comedic style that parodies old educational films. The purpose is to make fun of misguided and incorrect perception in earlier times, often accompanied by poor science. Of course it is, it's obvious the gold standard should be replaced with a platinum standard - far more economically reliable and less dependent on supplies from unstable countries.
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,750

1st December 2011, 01:07 PM	#11
dogjones Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bermuda Posts: 1,281	Originally Posted by sphenisc Of course it is, it's obvious the gold standard should be replaced with a platinum standard - far more economically reliable and less dependent on supplies from unstable countries. Darling, we're leaving!
	__________________ It's great being ideologically flexible.

1st December 2011, 01:09 PM	#12
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,750	Originally Posted by dogjones Darling, we're leaving! Can I have a kitten??
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,750

1st December 2011, 01:31 PM	#13
Moon-Spinner Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Within a star too far to dream of Posts: 1,485	I don't see it as chauvinist or feminist, because it's really mocking those post-World War II social guidance films, and here's a good example of one: Are You Popular?

1st December 2011, 06:01 PM	#14
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In a world lit only by fire. Posts: 17,894	Given the choices offered, feminism may not be right, but chauvinism is clearly wrong. Seen in the context of the time it was made and the TV history it's referring to, it's clearly mocking sexist attitudes of an earlier time. Originally Posted by dogjones I'll give the context as to why I am asking later... Context, in fact, is crucial to understanding the point of the sketch. Viewed outside that context it could easily be misinterpreted, as could a lot of comedy. Dave
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1st December 2011, 06:57 PM	#15
Seismosaurus Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Banbury Posts: 3,549	I don't know that I'd consider it one or the other, especially. Rather obviously, it's a parody of sexist attitudes and the casual acceptance such attitudes had in the past. But showing up how absurd such things look to modern sensibilities isn't really an endorsement or condemnation of anything.
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul

2nd December 2011, 05:55 AM	#16
JFrankA Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 4,054	Originally Posted by gumboot I can't select either. This sort of video is part of a widely-used comedic style that parodies old educational films. The purpose is to make fun of misguided and incorrect perception in earlier times, often accompanied by poor science. Originally Posted by Seismosaurus I don't know that I'd consider it one or the other, especially. Rather obviously, it's a parody of sexist attitudes and the casual acceptance such attitudes had in the past. But showing up how absurd such things look to modern sensibilities isn't really an endorsement or condemnation of anything. I go along with Gumboot and Seismosaurus.
	__________________ "How perverted you are.", "I will bite you like a serpent. The poison will slowly kill your sophism..." - SnakeTongue "More truth is in a single issue of Mad than a year of Time." - Gord in Toronto "Oh, and one more thing: For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know." - Wise man in Sucker Punch

2nd December 2011, 05:58 AM	#17
JFrankA Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 4,054	Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner I don't see it as chauvinist or feminist, because it's really mocking those post-World War II social guidance films, and here's a good example of one: Are You Popular? At 03:45 "Teen Town"????? Teens had their own city back then???? (Sorry for being off topic....)
	__________________ "How perverted you are.", "I will bite you like a serpent. The poison will slowly kill your sophism..." - SnakeTongue "More truth is in a single issue of Mad than a year of Time." - Gord in Toronto "Oh, and one more thing: For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know." - Wise man in Sucker Punch

2nd December 2011, 06:26 AM	#18
Noztradamus Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,867	Originally Posted by dogjones Have a look at this old Harry Enfield: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w And tell me whether the sketch is chauvinist or feminist, and why. No planet X for this one as it forces a choice. If you think the truth is somewhere in between, you can still come down more on one side than the other. I'll give the context as to why I am asking later... No. No. chauvinist or feminist are not polar opposites; they're not even on the same scale.
	__________________ The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.

4th December 2011, 08:22 AM	#19
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,827	Originally Posted by dogjones Have a look at this old Harry Enfield: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w And tell me whether the sketch is chauvinist or feminist, and why. No planet X for this one as it forces a choice. If you think the truth is somewhere in between, you can still come down more on one side than the other. I'll give the context as to why I am asking later... I am not sure I understand the question. Just looking at the chauvinist side: are you asking if it is intentionally chauvinistic, unintentionally chauvinistic, aimed at mocking chauvinists, aimed at amusing chauvinists, or something else? You really, really needed a Planet X option on this one. You also needed both and neither as answer choices.

5th December 2011, 01:33 AM	#20
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	I can't view it here, but it seems to me the critical question about comedy would be "Is it funny"?
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885