Mishka the Talking Dog, Evolution. And Rights.

Bill Thompson · 15th April 2012, 02:31 PM

If I post this in the Forum Community section, people will assume it is all a joke and respond to it with further jokes. This is not a joke. It is a social issue.

Months ago, I posed an interesting question regarding human rights. Specifically reproduction rights. We own animals as pets. So what if pets could talk and ask to have an abortion if they are pregnant. What if they were that much evolved and aware of their surroundings to make such a request.

Well, at that time, the typical response was that this was absurd and other species were a long way off (pets) that they could carry on a conversation with us.

Mishka, the famous talking husky, is famous for repeating words that her owner tell her, but we could all agrue that she does not really comprehend what is being said.

Until now.

Now she does more than just repeat.

Owner: "Mishka, you look happy. Are you happy?"
Mishka: "I am"

This is ground breaking. This shows she understands the English language structure and knows how to use English to carry on a conversatioin and convey how she is felling.

And it is not just a whimper that our imaginations tell us sounds like "I am". If you play it a few times it is clear that she is saying "I am".

But if that does not blow your mind or convince you, she continues with: "How are you?"

If dogs can talk and understand language, this opens a new door in their evolution and poses questinos about how we should treat them. Don't you agree?

So I wonder what people who are so blindly passionate about the right for women to have an abortion would think if they would consider it unthinkable to give a dog an abortion even if they could ask for one.

Quad4_72 · 15th April 2012, 02:33 PM

Video of talking dog please.

ddt · 15th April 2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Quad4_72

Video of talking dog please.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Yawn.

Bill Thompson · 15th April 2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Quad4_72

Video of talking dog please.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

http://youtu.be/yLTJhyih-d4

Tsukasa Buddha · 15th April 2012, 02:59 PM

Dogs understand doggy language: barks, body language, cries, and, for huskies, howls. This looks like auditory pareidolia with reinforcement tossed in.

Anyway, most of us don't even agree about the existence of animal rights, so to take this to abortion is a step way too far.

Dessi · 15th April 2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

So I wonder what people who are so blindly passionate about the right for women to have an abortion would think if they would consider it unthinkable to give a dog an abortion even if they could ask for one.

I wouldn't see why honoring requests to be treated in some way depends on an organisms species. I think the biggest barrier to considering the right to choose in this specific case would be the cultural inertia against recognizing animals rights as equivalent to human rights.

AdMan · 15th April 2012, 03:07 PM

Woof!

Redtail · 15th April 2012, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

If I post this in the Forum Community section, people will assume it is all a joke and respond to it with further jokes. This is not a joke. It is a social issue.

Months ago, I posed an interesting question regarding human rights. Specifically reproduction rights. We own animals as pets. So what if pets could talk and ask to have an abortion if they are pregnant. What if they were that much evolved and aware of their surroundings to make such a request.

Well, at that time, the typical response was that this was absurd and other species were a long way off (pets) that they could carry on a conversation with us.

Mishka, the famous talking husky, is famous for repeating words that her owner tell her, but we could all agrue that she does not really comprehend what is being said.

Until now.

Now she does more than just repeat.

Owner: "Mishka, you look happy. Are you happy?"
Mishka: "I am"

This is ground breaking. This shows she understands the English language structure and knows how to use English to carry on a conversatioin and convey how she is felling.

And it is not just a whimper that our imaginations tell us sounds like "I am". If you play it a few times it is clear that she is saying "I am".

But if that does not blow your mind or convince you, she continues with: "How are you?"

If dogs can talk and understand language, this opens a new door in their evolution and poses questinos about how we should treat them. Don't you agree?

So I wonder what people who are so blindly passionate about the right for women to have an abortion would think if they would consider it unthinkable to give a dog an abortion even if they could ask for one.

No.

Tsukasa Buddha · 15th April 2012, 03:11 PM

After googling it looks like she can say twelve phrases in response to certain prompts, sometimes just basic mimicry. The owner doesn't seem to be claiming she understands English is any meaningful sense.

Professor Yaffle · 15th April 2012, 03:12 PM

How's the dog proposing to pay for this termination?

Carnivore · 15th April 2012, 03:20 PM

A species as fully sentient as humans would be equally morally valuable and have the same rights.

I once had a dog called Miska. She never asked me for an abortion I would have said no. (She was Catholic.)

BravesFan · 15th April 2012, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Carnivore

A species as fully sentient as humans would be equally morally valuable and have the same rights.

I once had a dog called Miska. She never asked me for an abortion I would have said no. (She was Catholic.)

Nominated for the pith!!!

Kudos sir, I LOL for real!

Stellafane · 15th April 2012, 03:26 PM

This is a question that has dogged mankind.

slingblade · 15th April 2012, 03:26 PM

If one of my pets became able to clearly request something of me, in my language, I'd have no problem honoring that request. Including asking for an abortion.

Why is it so hard to understand that my body is mine, and I will decide what happens to it, when the choice is mine to make? And that I willingly extend that to others? Including animals, should I become aware of their wants and desires?

Friggin control freaks really get on my last nerve.

BravesFan · 15th April 2012, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by slingblade

If one of my pets became able to clearly request something of me, in my language, I'd have no problem honoring that request. Including asking for an abortion.

Why is it so hard to understand that my body is mine, and I will decide what happens to it, when the choice is mine to make? And that I willingly extend that to others? Including animals, should I become aware of their wants and desires?

Friggin control freaks really get on my last nerve.

Think about what you said.... seriously. If your pet could request things in your language , would it not already be a bit hairy that they were your pet? Would you also allow them to run wild in the streets if they so requested? Not get fixed? Eat at the table? Refuse baths?

Talking dogs is funny and all, but to start equating a cartoon with real life and the ACTUAL IMPLICATIONS OF GIVING PET'S "CHOICES" is kind of a silly thing.

Caustic Logic · 15th April 2012, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

So what if pets could talk and ask to have an abortion if they are pregnant. What if they were that much evolved and aware of their surroundings to make such a request.

Considering all else they could ask or say, safe to say things could get awkward.

Can you imagine the conversations that would emerge at a factory farm if cattle developed the skill?

I'd have to look at Miksha closer to see. Dogs and all higher animals clearly think. Some speak. Connecting the two is rare but entirely possible.

Consider Alex the parrot observing another bird's language lesson and failure to say "green"right when shown the color.He said "gleen" and Alex admonished him to "speak clearly."

It's a barely-known world, even aside from the primates, and one I'm fascinated by. (Chimps can do sign language consistently, known for decades, and some think the sounds accompanying it is spoken English, just too fast and high-pitched to make out clearly)

Sorry if that took it off the reproductive rights aspect... I'd probably get the dog an abortion, and some of the other things she asked for, and think twice before taking on a second talking pet.

BravesFan · 15th April 2012, 04:46 PM

One would think the constant barrage of "can we go outside? can we go outside? can I have a treat? watcha doin? huh?) would be enough to drive a dog owner batty!! lol

jhunter1163 · 15th April 2012, 04:51 PM

Do not personalize your arguments and remain civil and polite.

Posted By:jhunter1163

The Central Scrutinizer · 15th April 2012, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Mishka, the famous talking husky, is famous for repeating words that her owner tell her, but we could all agrue that she does not really comprehend what is being said.

Until now.

Now she does more than just repeat.

Owner: "Mishka, you look happy. Are you happy?"
Mishka: "I am"

This is ground breaking. This shows she understands the English language structure and knows how to use English to carry on a conversatioin and convey how she is felling.

I hate to burst your bubble, but....no. It's a simple trick any animal trainer could do.

arthwollipot · 15th April 2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by LogicFail

Think about what you said.... seriously. If your pet could request things in your language , would it not already be a bit hairy that they were your pet? Would you also allow them to run wild in the streets if they so requested? Not get fixed? Eat at the table? Refuse baths?

If pets were intelligent enough to converse with us, we would be able to educate them just like we do our children. Is it a rights issue that we don't let our 3-year olds play with bleach? What if they really want to?

BravesFan · 15th April 2012, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

If pets were intelligent enough to converse with us, we would be able to educate them just like we do our children. Is it a rights issue that we don't let our 3-year olds play with bleach? What if they really want to?

Hmm, but that assumes that we have known of their ability to speak and higher level intelligence for a long time (and thus they probably wouldn't even be pets).

(and it was in reference to the prior posters statement of "control freaks")

I interpreted the OP to mean an either sudden breakout of talking dogs, or perhaps the odd mutant. Cuz seriously, if they were able to talk and reason with us, I doubt it would be legal for them to be pets.

Not to mention, that no matter how cool the idea of a talking dog might sound to us, having seen the Pixar film UP, I think it would get annoying really soon.

thrombus29 · 15th April 2012, 05:23 PM

"What's wrong? Did you want me to say DiMaggio?"

BravesFan · 15th April 2012, 05:31 PM

Why do I have this feeling that Bill Thompson is sitting somewhere laughing his behind off at us ?

autumn1971 · 15th April 2012, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by LogicFail

Why do I have this feeling that Bill Thompson is sitting somewhere laughing his behind off at us ?

If his behind can laugh, presumably it can talk. Will we grant Bill Thompson's bum the same rights as the rest of him?

AdMan · 15th April 2012, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by LogicFail

Why do I have this feeling that Bill Thompson is sitting somewhere laughing his behind off at us ?

Is anyone really taking a thread about a talking dog seriously?

slingblade · 15th April 2012, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

Is anyone really taking a thread about a talking dog seriously?

Only insofar as it's a thinly veiled attempt to get people to cave on abortion rights. For humans, of course.

AdMan · 15th April 2012, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by slingblade

Only insofar as it's a thinly veiled attempt to get people to cave on abortion rights. For humans, of course.

The initial question is a joke. Anything implicit in that question is little more than a joke.

Trying to make a point on abortion rights by posting idiocy is a joke, whether the OP intended it or not.

BravesFan · 15th April 2012, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

Is anyone really taking a thread about a talking dog seriously?

somebody did earlier, they yelled at me and got personal!!!!

JeanFromBNA · 15th April 2012, 06:08 PM

Sounded and looked to me like she was happy, but bored with the question. I think some animals would want the right to remain silent.

Halfcentaur · 15th April 2012, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

Do not personalize your arguments and remain civil and polite.

Posted By:jhunter1163

For the longest time I thought Jhunter has been personalizing arguments and getting reprimanded for it constantly. I just noticed Jhunter is a moderator and is providing a warning for the thread.

Halfcentaur · 15th April 2012, 06:16 PM

I would guess, call me crazy, that the dog is trained to make a noise that sounds like I am when it hears certain words.

AdMan · 15th April 2012, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

For the longest time I thought Jhunter has been personalizing arguments and getting reprimanded for it constantly. I just noticed Jhunter is a moderator and is providing a warning for the thread.

Hmm... how is this on topic? We're talking about verbalizing canines here.

Brian-M · 15th April 2012, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Now she does more than just repeat.

Owner: "Mishka, you look happy. Are you happy?"
Mishka: "I am"

Watching that video, the correct transcription would be...

Owner: "Mishka, you look happy today. Are you happy?"
Mishka: Harouo.
Owner: [Laughing] "You are".
Miska: Haarrooo.
Owner: I'm good, thanks for asking.

Doesn't sound anything like a coherent response to me.

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

This is ground breaking. This shows she understands the English language structure and knows how to use English to carry on a conversatioin and convey how she is felling.

Even if she did respond "I am" and ask "How are you", that wouldn't mean she understood the question. Her appropriate response could have been blind chance, deliberate training or the Clever Hans effect.

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

And it is not just a whimper that our imaginations tell us sounds like "I am". If you play it a few times it is clear that she is saying "I am".

I have played it a few times. It sounds nothing like "I am" to me.

But have you ever heard of pareidolia? It's the perception of meaningful patterns in random data. Everybody's susceptible to it, because our brains are hard-wired to detect patterns.

Famous instances of pareidolia include the face on mars and satanic messages when heavy-metal songs are played backward.

Info on audio pareodolia: http://theness.com/roguesgallery/ind...io-pareidolia/

Pareidolia can become overwhelmingly convincing when the stimulus is vaguely similar to what we expect to perceive. For example, you could be anticipating the next words a "talking" dog will say, or reading a subtitle on a video where the words aren't clearly pronounced...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The video of Mishka that DDT posted that gives a subtitle with her response to a similar question reminded me of that video.

Here's one I found via the article I linked to earlier...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

ETA: The only difference between these videos and the ones with Mishka is that the Mishka videos use context to set the expectations for what you hear while these videos use subtitles to do the same thing.

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

If dogs can talk and understand language, this opens a new door in their evolution and poses questinos about how we should treat them. Don't you agree?

If any dog were capable of carrying out coherent conversation at a level requiring comprehension of abstract concepts (rather than being trained to mindlessly repeat phrases when prompted) then this would be an amazing thing, and the dog in question would deserve to be treated as a sapient entity rather than an animal.

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

So I wonder what people who are so blindly passionate about the right for women to have an abortion would think if they would consider it unthinkable to give a dog an abortion even if they could ask for one.

If a dog were intelligent enough to unambiguously ask for an abortion, I see no reason why it should be unthinkable to give them one. It's not as if they don't already give abortions to dogs (by removing the uterus while spaying them in the early stages of pregnancy).

Howie Felterbush · 15th April 2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by thrombus29

"What's wrong? Did you want me to say DiMaggio?"

WTF?

I make this joke and get AAH'ed...

sgtbaker · 15th April 2012, 06:52 PM

Ooh, I can answer yes because I actually did get an abortion for my dog. It wasn't my intention, she was supposed to be getting fixed. However, had I known she was carrying a liter, I would have done it anyway because the only possible way she'd gotten pregnant would have been my other dog, which was one of her offspring.

Lowpro · 15th April 2012, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

If I post this in the Forum Community section, people will assume it is all a joke and respond to it with further jokes. This is not a joke. It is a social issue.

Months ago, I posed an interesting question regarding human rights. Specifically reproduction rights. We own animals as pets. So what if pets could talk and ask to have an abortion if they are pregnant. What if they were that much evolved and aware of their surroundings to make such a request.

Well, at that time, the typical response was that this was absurd and other species were a long way off (pets) that they could carry on a conversation with us.

Mishka, the famous talking husky, is famous for repeating words that her owner tell her, but we could all agrue that she does not really comprehend what is being said.

Until now.
<Snip for brevity>

I would take the question seriously, not so much the dog story itself. If another species of animal were able to ask for an abortion I doubt it would change all that much. We OURSELVES ask for them, and the arguments for and against are in considerable flux. I doubt we could change that because another species would ask for it.

And no I don't think it's abominable to give a dog an abortion if they asked. Better an abortion then putting them down in a dog kennel like we do already.

Halfcentaur · 15th April 2012, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

Hmm... how is this on topic? We're talking about verbalizing canines here.

Well look at JHunter's avatar why don'cha?

Seismosaurus · 15th April 2012, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Now she does more than just repeat.

Owner: "Mishka, you look happy. Are you happy?"
Mishka: "I am"

This is ground breaking. This shows she understands the English language structure and knows how to use English to carry on a conversatioin and convey how she is felling.

No it doesn't.

It proves that she has learned to give a particular response to a particular input. Just as a dog can learn to sit down when you give a particular command, or fetch a stick when you throw it, etc.

slingblade · 15th April 2012, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

If a dog were intelligent enough to unambiguously ask for an abortion, I see no reason why it should be unthinkable to give them one. It's not as if they don't already give abortions to dogs (by removing the uterus while spaying them in the early stages of pregnancy).

For shame. You gave a serious answer. How could you?

schplurg · 15th April 2012, 08:58 PM

My dog hounds me for money all the time, has a drinking problem, and lives in a rundown apartment in the city. I don't know where I went wrong, but at least she hasn't gotten herself knocked up yet. If she did and wanted an abortion, I'd tell her no, then move her back home until I could sell the puppies.

15th April 2012, 02:31 PM	#1
Bill Thompson Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Redmond, Washington Posts: 6,176	Mishka the Talking Dog, Evolution. And Rights. If I post this in the Forum Community section, people will assume it is all a joke and respond to it with further jokes. This is not a joke. It is a social issue. Months ago, I posed an interesting question regarding human rights. Specifically reproduction rights. We own animals as pets. So what if pets could talk and ask to have an abortion if they are pregnant. What if they were that much evolved and aware of their surroundings to make such a request. Well, at that time, the typical response was that this was absurd and other species were a long way off (pets) that they could carry on a conversation with us. Mishka, the famous talking husky, is famous for repeating words that her owner tell her, but we could all agrue that she does not really comprehend what is being said. Until now. Now she does more than just repeat. Owner: "Mishka, you look happy. Are you happy?" Mishka: "I am" This is ground breaking. This shows she understands the English language structure and knows how to use English to carry on a conversatioin and convey how she is felling. And it is not just a whimper that our imaginations tell us sounds like "I am". If you play it a few times it is clear that she is saying "I am". But if that does not blow your mind or convince you, she continues with: "How are you?" If dogs can talk and understand language, this opens a new door in their evolution and poses questinos about how we should treat them. Don't you agree? So I wonder what people who are so blindly passionate about the right for women to have an abortion would think if they would consider it unthinkable to give a dog an abortion even if they could ask for one.
	Last edited by Bill Thompson; 15th April 2012 at 02:51 PM.

15th April 2012, 02:33 PM	#2
Quad4_72 AI-EE-YAH! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 5,830	Video of talking dog please.
	__________________ Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken

15th April 2012, 02:59 PM	#5
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,928	Dogs understand doggy language: barks, body language, cries, and, for huskies, howls. This looks like auditory pareidolia with reinforcement tossed in. Anyway, most of us don't even agree about the existence of animal rights, so to take this to abortion is a step way too far.
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

15th April 2012, 03:01 PM	#6
Dessi Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 1,924	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson So I wonder what people who are so blindly passionate about the right for women to have an abortion would think if they would consider it unthinkable to give a dog an abortion even if they could ask for one. I wouldn't see why honoring requests to be treated in some way depends on an organisms species. I think the biggest barrier to considering the right to choose in this specific case would be the cultural inertia against recognizing animals rights as equivalent to human rights.
	__________________ >^.^<

15th April 2012, 03:07 PM	#7
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	Woof!
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

15th April 2012, 03:10 PM	#8
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,304	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson If I post this in the Forum Community section, people will assume it is all a joke and respond to it with further jokes. This is not a joke. It is a social issue. Months ago, I posed an interesting question regarding human rights. Specifically reproduction rights. We own animals as pets. So what if pets could talk and ask to have an abortion if they are pregnant. What if they were that much evolved and aware of their surroundings to make such a request. Well, at that time, the typical response was that this was absurd and other species were a long way off (pets) that they could carry on a conversation with us. Mishka, the famous talking husky, is famous for repeating words that her owner tell her, but we could all agrue that she does not really comprehend what is being said. Until now. Now she does more than just repeat. Owner: "Mishka, you look happy. Are you happy?" Mishka: "I am" This is ground breaking. This shows she understands the English language structure and knows how to use English to carry on a conversatioin and convey how she is felling. And it is not just a whimper that our imaginations tell us sounds like "I am". If you play it a few times it is clear that she is saying "I am". But if that does not blow your mind or convince you, she continues with: "How are you?" If dogs can talk and understand language, this opens a new door in their evolution and poses questinos about how we should treat them. Don't you agree? So I wonder what people who are so blindly passionate about the right for women to have an abortion would think if they would consider it unthinkable to give a dog an abortion even if they could ask for one. No.
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,304	__________________ AVENGERS!!!.. Turn off the dark!

15th April 2012, 03:11 PM	#9
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,928	After googling it looks like she can say twelve phrases in response to certain prompts, sometimes just basic mimicry. The owner doesn't seem to be claiming she understands English is any meaningful sense.
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

15th April 2012, 03:12 PM	#10
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,360	How's the dog proposing to pay for this termination?
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. My blog "Well I think I've made it abundantly clear in this thread I have no idea what I'm talking about..." - truethat

15th April 2012, 03:20 PM	#11
Carnivore Salad Dodger Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 1,386	A species as fully sentient as humans would be equally morally valuable and have the same rights. I once had a dog called Miska. She never asked me for an abortion I would have said no. (She was Catholic.)
	__________________ "It's backwards thinking like this that made me leave Manchester. You Guinness swilling, Marmite blaspheming animal." - Malfie Henpox

15th April 2012, 03:26 PM	#12
BravesFan Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ocean Springs, Ms Posts: 1,784	Originally Posted by Carnivore A species as fully sentient as humans would be equally morally valuable and have the same rights. I once had a dog called Miska. She never asked me for an abortion I would have said no. (She was Catholic.) Nominated for the pith!!! Kudos sir, I LOL for real!

15th April 2012, 03:26 PM	#13
Stellafane Village Idiot. Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Green Mountains Posts: 6,289	This is a question that has dogged mankind.
	__________________ Another Shameless Googlebomb Plug for www.stopsylvia.com

15th April 2012, 03:26 PM	#14
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	If one of my pets became able to clearly request something of me, in my language, I'd have no problem honoring that request. Including asking for an abortion. Why is it so hard to understand that my body is mine, and I will decide what happens to it, when the choice is mine to make? And that I willingly extend that to others? Including animals, should I become aware of their wants and desires? Friggin control freaks really get on my last nerve.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

15th April 2012, 03:38 PM	#15
BravesFan Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ocean Springs, Ms Posts: 1,784	Originally Posted by slingblade If one of my pets became able to clearly request something of me, in my language, I'd have no problem honoring that request. Including asking for an abortion. Why is it so hard to understand that my body is mine, and I will decide what happens to it, when the choice is mine to make? And that I willingly extend that to others? Including animals, should I become aware of their wants and desires? Friggin control freaks really get on my last nerve. Think about what you said.... seriously. If your pet could request things in your language , would it not already be a bit hairy that they were your pet? Would you also allow them to run wild in the streets if they so requested? Not get fixed? Eat at the table? Refuse baths? Talking dogs is funny and all, but to start equating a cartoon with real life and the ACTUAL IMPLICATIONS OF GIVING PET'S "CHOICES" is kind of a silly thing.

15th April 2012, 04:35 PM	#16
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,979	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson So what if pets could talk and ask to have an abortion if they are pregnant. What if they were that much evolved and aware of their surroundings to make such a request. Considering all else they could ask or say, safe to say things could get awkward. Can you imagine the conversations that would emerge at a factory farm if cattle developed the skill? I'd have to look at Miksha closer to see. Dogs and all higher animals clearly think. Some speak. Connecting the two is rare but entirely possible. Consider Alex the parrot observing another bird's language lesson and failure to say "green"right when shown the color.He said "gleen" and Alex admonished him to "speak clearly." It's a barely-known world, even aside from the primates, and one I'm fascinated by. (Chimps can do sign language consistently, known for decades, and some think the sounds accompanying it is spoken English, just too fast and high-pitched to make out clearly) Sorry if that took it off the reproductive rights aspect... I'd probably get the dog an abortion, and some of the other things she asked for, and think twice before taking on a second talking pet.

15th April 2012, 04:46 PM	#17
BravesFan Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ocean Springs, Ms Posts: 1,784	One would think the constant barrage of "can we go outside? can we go outside? can I have a treat? watcha doin? huh?) would be enough to drive a dog owner batty!! lol

15th April 2012, 04:55 PM	#19
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson Mishka, the famous talking husky, is famous for repeating words that her owner tell her, but we could all agrue that she does not really comprehend what is being said. Until now. Now she does more than just repeat. Owner: "Mishka, you look happy. Are you happy?" Mishka: "I am" This is ground breaking. This shows she understands the English language structure and knows how to use English to carry on a conversatioin and convey how she is felling. I hate to burst your bubble, but....no. It's a simple trick any animal trainer could do.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

15th April 2012, 05:06 PM	#20
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,038	Originally Posted by LogicFail Think about what you said.... seriously. If your pet could request things in your language , would it not already be a bit hairy that they were your pet? Would you also allow them to run wild in the streets if they so requested? Not get fixed? Eat at the table? Refuse baths? If pets were intelligent enough to converse with us, we would be able to educate them just like we do our children. Is it a rights issue that we don't let our 3-year olds play with bleach? What if they really want to?
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

15th April 2012, 05:17 PM	#21
BravesFan Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ocean Springs, Ms Posts: 1,784	Originally Posted by arthwollipot If pets were intelligent enough to converse with us, we would be able to educate them just like we do our children. Is it a rights issue that we don't let our 3-year olds play with bleach? What if they really want to? Hmm, but that assumes that we have known of their ability to speak and higher level intelligence for a long time (and thus they probably wouldn't even be pets). (and it was in reference to the prior posters statement of "control freaks") I interpreted the OP to mean an either sudden breakout of talking dogs, or perhaps the odd mutant. Cuz seriously, if they were able to talk and reason with us, I doubt it would be legal for them to be pets. Not to mention, that no matter how cool the idea of a talking dog might sound to us, having seen the Pixar film UP, I think it would get annoying really soon.

15th April 2012, 05:23 PM	#22
thrombus29 Flame War Master and JREF kid Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,928	"What's wrong? Did you want me to say DiMaggio?"
	__________________ Now I am not going to justify what may appear to be a failure in carrying out this prediction but rest in the fact that there will be success. -St. Paul Bethke Targzissians are obviously reptilian

15th April 2012, 05:31 PM	#23
BravesFan Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ocean Springs, Ms Posts: 1,784	Why do I have this feeling that Bill Thompson is sitting somewhere laughing his behind off at us ?

15th April 2012, 05:36 PM	#24
autumn1971 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,456	Originally Posted by LogicFail Why do I have this feeling that Bill Thompson is sitting somewhere laughing his behind off at us ? If his behind can laugh, presumably it can talk. Will we grant Bill Thompson's bum the same rights as the rest of him?
	__________________ 'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard

15th April 2012, 05:53 PM	#25
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	Originally Posted by LogicFail Why do I have this feeling that Bill Thompson is sitting somewhere laughing his behind off at us ? Is anyone really taking a thread about a talking dog seriously?
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

15th April 2012, 05:55 PM	#26
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Originally Posted by AdMan Is anyone really taking a thread about a talking dog seriously? Only insofar as it's a thinly veiled attempt to get people to cave on abortion rights. For humans, of course.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

15th April 2012, 05:58 PM	#27
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	Originally Posted by slingblade Only insofar as it's a thinly veiled attempt to get people to cave on abortion rights. For humans, of course. The initial question is a joke. Anything implicit in that question is little more than a joke. Trying to make a point on abortion rights by posting idiocy is a joke, whether the OP intended it or not.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan Last edited by AdMan; 15th April 2012 at 06:00 PM.

15th April 2012, 06:02 PM	#28
BravesFan Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ocean Springs, Ms Posts: 1,784	Originally Posted by AdMan Is anyone really taking a thread about a talking dog seriously? somebody did earlier, they yelled at me and got personal!!!!

15th April 2012, 06:08 PM	#29
JeanFromBNA Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 399	Sounded and looked to me like she was happy, but bored with the question. I think some animals would want the right to remain silent.

15th April 2012, 06:16 PM	#31
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,965	I would guess, call me crazy, that the dog is trained to make a noise that sounds like I am when it hears certain words.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,965

15th April 2012, 06:18 PM	#32
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	Originally Posted by Halfcentaur For the longest time I thought Jhunter has been personalizing arguments and getting reprimanded for it constantly. I just noticed Jhunter is a moderator and is providing a warning for the thread. Hmm... how is this on topic? We're talking about verbalizing canines here.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

15th April 2012, 06:45 PM	#34
Howie Felterbush Bow Tie Daddy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the twilight, singing all the old lullabies Posts: 5,333	Originally Posted by thrombus29 "What's wrong? Did you want me to say DiMaggio?" WTF? I make this joke and get AAH'ed...
	__________________ "Don't be too offended by the likes of him - I hear he doesn't even own ascots." -JoeyDonuts "I must be more tired than I thought. Howie, you are starting to make sense." -MG1962 "You're a mean old evil cynic. And mean." Halfcentaur

15th April 2012, 06:52 PM	#35
sgtbaker Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 5,551	Ooh, I can answer yes because I actually did get an abortion for my dog. It wasn't my intention, she was supposed to be getting fixed. However, had I known she was carrying a liter, I would have done it anyway because the only possible way she'd gotten pregnant would have been my other dog, which was one of her offspring.
sgtbaker Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 5,551

15th April 2012, 06:55 PM	#36
Lowpro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 4,539	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson If I post this in the Forum Community section, people will assume it is all a joke and respond to it with further jokes. This is not a joke. It is a social issue. Months ago, I posed an interesting question regarding human rights. Specifically reproduction rights. We own animals as pets. So what if pets could talk and ask to have an abortion if they are pregnant. What if they were that much evolved and aware of their surroundings to make such a request. Well, at that time, the typical response was that this was absurd and other species were a long way off (pets) that they could carry on a conversation with us. Mishka, the famous talking husky, is famous for repeating words that her owner tell her, but we could all agrue that she does not really comprehend what is being said. Until now. <Snip for brevity> I would take the question seriously, not so much the dog story itself. If another species of animal were able to ask for an abortion I doubt it would change all that much. We OURSELVES ask for them, and the arguments for and against are in considerable flux. I doubt we could change that because another species would ask for it. And no I don't think it's abominable to give a dog an abortion if they asked. Better an abortion then putting them down in a dog kennel like we do already.
	__________________ "If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers Last edited by Lowpro; 15th April 2012 at 06:56 PM.

15th April 2012, 07:30 PM	#37
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,965	Originally Posted by AdMan Hmm... how is this on topic? We're talking about verbalizing canines here. Well look at JHunter's avatar why don'cha?
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,965

15th April 2012, 07:44 PM	#38
Seismosaurus Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Banbury Posts: 3,551	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson Now she does more than just repeat. Owner: "Mishka, you look happy. Are you happy?" Mishka: "I am" This is ground breaking. This shows she understands the English language structure and knows how to use English to carry on a conversatioin and convey how she is felling. No it doesn't. It proves that she has learned to give a particular response to a particular input. Just as a dog can learn to sit down when you give a particular command, or fetch a stick when you throw it, etc.
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul

15th April 2012, 08:20 PM	#39
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Originally Posted by Brian-M If a dog were intelligent enough to unambiguously ask for an abortion, I see no reason why it should be unthinkable to give them one. It's not as if they don't already give abortions to dogs (by removing the uterus while spaying them in the early stages of pregnancy). For shame. You gave a serious answer. How could you?
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

15th April 2012, 08:58 PM	#40
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 924	My dog hounds me for money all the time, has a drinking problem, and lives in a rundown apartment in the city. I don't know where I went wrong, but at least she hasn't gotten herself knocked up yet. If she did and wanted an abortion, I'd tell her no, then move her back home until I could sell the puppies.
schplurg Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 924