[Merged] Windows 8 Consumer Preview Questions...

dc1971 · 15th April 2012, 08:41 PM

I just downloaded and installed Windows 8 Consumer Preview. I have been getting familiar with the new Metro interface and getting more acquainted with some of the new features. My initial reaction is that I'm very surprised and excited about how well this works on a desktop computer.

I have yet to try it out on a tablet or laptop but I'm looking forward to the full release (apparently slated for fall of this year).

Some questions I have and not sure if all can be answered here...

Why is it that some third party programs have security issues? An example would be having problems logging in to iTunes, accessing web pages on G-Chrome, and content pop-ups on Internet Explorer. Is there something I'm missing?

Also, there are many warnings telling me that I should Activate Windows yet when I perform activation it throws back an error. There is no option to call support with an activation code so I'm just curious as to why they would make a big deal about activation if there is no option to do so?

Some of the Metro apps won't connect including the Microsoft Store. Should I be registering a Microsoft account in order to use this app or is the connection to the store presently disabled?

Anyone here tinkering around with Windows 8?

Am interested in any reactions you may have.

dc1971 · 15th April 2012, 08:44 PM

I just downloaded and installed Windows 8 Consumer Preview. I have been getting familiar with the new Metro interface and getting more acquainted with some of the new features. My initial reaction is that I'm very surprised and excited about how well this works on a desktop computer.

I have yet to try it out on a tablet or laptop but I'm looking forward to the full release (apparently slated for fall of this year).

Some questions I have and not sure if all can be answered here...

Why is it that some third party programs have security issues? An example would be having problems logging in to iTunes, accessing web pages on G-Chrome, and content pop-ups on Internet Explorer. Is there something I'm missing?

Also, there are many warnings telling me that I should Activate Windows yet when I perform activation it throws back an error. There is no option to call support with an activation code so I'm just curious as to why they would make a big deal about activation if there is no option to do so?

Some of the Metro apps won't connect including the Microsoft Store. Should I be registering a Microsoft account in order to use this app or is the connection to the store presently disabled?

Anyone here tinkering around with Windows 8?

Am interested in any reactions you may have.

Wowbagger · 15th April 2012, 09:28 PM

Sorry I can't answer your questions. I am sure the issues with the major 3rd party apps. will be resolved when Win 8 is released. Though, it does tell you something about how much of a headache this new level of security is going to be for developers.

I haven't had any Activation issues.

But, so far, I can't say I'm a fan of Windows 8. At least not for desktops. The interface is non-intuitive for use with keyboards and mice, and the Metro interface does not integrate well with the Desktop interface. (And, it looks ugly, too. But, that's just a superficial point.)

Visual Studio 11 has some good stuff going for it, at least. That's the beta I've been playing with the most.

Trakar · 15th April 2012, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Sorry I can't answer your questions. I am sure the issues with the major 3rd party apps. will be resolved when Win 8 is released. Though, it does tell you something about how much of a headache this new level of security is going to be for developers.

I haven't had any Activation issues.

But, so far, I can't say I'm a fan of Windows 8. At least not for desktops. The interface is non-intuitive for use with keyboards and mice, and the Metro interface does not integrate well with the Desktop interface. (And, it looks ugly, too. But, that's just a superficial point.)

Visual Studio 11 has some good stuff going for it, at least. That's the beta I've been playing with the most.

I was of the understanding that Win 8 is primarily for tablet and phone use, not for laptops or desktops. Doesn't mean that it won't work on laptops or desktops, just that it is optimized for those more mobile (and limited) platforms.

dc1971 · 15th April 2012, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Sorry I can't answer your questions. I am sure the issues with the major 3rd party apps. will be resolved when Win 8 is released. Though, it does tell you something about how much of a headache this new level of security is going to be for developers.

I haven't had any Activation issues.

But, so far, I can't say I'm a fan of Windows 8. At least not for desktops. The interface is non-intuitive for use with keyboards and mice, and the Metro interface does not integrate well with the Desktop interface. (And, it looks ugly, too. But, that's just a superficial point.)

Visual Studio 11 has some good stuff going for it, at least. That's the beta I've been playing with the most.

Got the activation figured out. I had to tend to the Activity Center and run Windows Update. Now I'm good.

Wowbagger · 16th April 2012, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Trakar

I was of the understanding that Win 8 is primarily for tablet and phone use, not for laptops or desktops. Doesn't mean that it won't work on laptops or desktops, just that it is optimized for those more mobile (and limited) platforms.

The desktop market is still formidable. It would be pretty stupid of them to shrug off usability for them, at this point in time.

dc1971 · 17th April 2012, 12:41 AM

After further exploration of the new interface, the Start Metro and the Desktop now being considered an "app" of sorts, my 2 cents is that Windows 8 will not only change our familiarity of GUI's past but this is by far the best version of Windows ever!

I'm sure there are those who won't agree but I've given some time to tinker around with the Consumer Preview and it has not disappointed me at all. Sure, there are a few bugs to work out - specifically with some of the apps downloadable from the MS Store - but all in all Microsoft has hit a home run with their new OS.

I have been an Apple user for years and own both PC and Mac computers. I was driven to my passion for computers, gaming, and technology through Apple computers. Microsoft came along and created an OS very similar to what was so familiar on the Mac however there was always this "feel" for the intuitive on the Mac that was just never there with the Windows OS. Call me a Mac cultist but I could always see what they meant by 'it just works'.

Should I say that once Windows 8 is released, Apple is going to have a big challenge on their hands?

First off, Windows 8 will be device compatible as well as sync capable. In other words, if I install Windows on a tablet, I will be able to sync everything to another device such as a desktop, laptop, or other portable Windows device including a phone. You cannot do that with an iPad.

Secondly, I think they're taunting the Android market considering you will be able to install Windows 8 on ARM devices. This means if you feel Android just isn't cutting it, you can replace it with Windows. Google, unlike Apple, has a device compatible operating system however there's nothing specifically for laptop or desktop computers.

There are many other features that I can explain here however there will also be more to discover in the months ahead up to the actual release of Win8.

Apple will definitely have to step it up, in my opinion.

SezMe · 17th April 2012, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Visual Studio 11 has some good stuff going for it, at least. That's the beta I've been playing with the most.

I hope this isn't too much of a derail. I looked at VS11 (over VS10) and didn't see much for the individual developer (such as, me!). What "good stuff" do you see?

The Central Scrutinizer · 17th April 2012, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by dc1971

I just downloaded and installed Windows 8 Consumer Preview.

I have a question for you: Why?

Get a Mac.

dc1971 · 17th April 2012, 08:03 AM

I have a Mac.

Two.

Trakar · 17th April 2012, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

The desktop market is still formidable. It would be pretty stupid of them to shrug off usability for them, at this point in time.

No doubt, but 7 is fully functional and a pleasure to use and 8 is especially accomodating to mobile, but more limited, platforms. I see nothing wrong with them doing a bit of specialization with 8 and varients being specialized to mobile applications and 7 running more to the desktop and laptop systems. I don't much like shifting software every two years as it is, going in a couple of directions on a staggered basis with new software coming out every 4-6 years should be a much better arrangement, at least until the mobile devices themselves become capable of handling more true laptop/desktop functionality.

Trakar · 17th April 2012, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I have a question for you: Why?

Get a Mac.

Why?

That seems like an even bigger step backwards?

uruk · 17th April 2012, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Trakar

I was of the understanding that Win 8 is primarily for tablet and phone use, not for laptops or desktops. Doesn't mean that it won't work on laptops or desktops, just that it is optimized for those more mobile (and limited) platforms.

Windows 8 is meant for desktop also. It's has optimization for tablets and other mobile devices. There are also alot of people complaining that Win8 is awkward on a desktop.
I've been using it since the developer preview and I personaly don't see thier issue but thats' just me.

People tend to be skeptical of change.

Win8 is Microsoft's way of dealing with the "Post PC" era. Mobile computing is taking over the industry and companies have to adpat or perish.

Trakar · 17th April 2012, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by uruk

Windows 8 is meant for desktop also. It's has optimization for tablets and other mobile devices. There are also alot of people complaining that Win8 is awkward on a desktop.
I've been using it since the developer preview and I personaly don't see thier issue but thats' just me.

People tend to be skeptical of change.

Win8 is Microsoft's way of dealing with the "Post PC" era. Mobile computing is taking over the industry and companies have to adpat or perish.

Largely agreed on all counts. I've played around on the trial versions of 8 just because I am anticipating the flood of Win8 phones and tablets this summer, and it seems more than functional. Depending upon how long MS goes before the next release, I may skip 8 for server and desktops mainly because 7 seems to be such a robust and stable system, at least for everything we require of it.

Wowbagger · 17th April 2012, 11:32 AM

Some of my complaints, such as the lack of a Start button is something I might "get used to". Moving to a corner without an icon telling me to move there is going to be weird, but doable.

The whole reason the Taskbar and Start Button were invented was to make it easier for people to see what was open and where to get stuff. In Windows 3.1 this was a problem: Minimized windows weren't easy to see or find, etc. Finding programs and utilities was as small chore. Taking a lot of that out seems like a step backwards to me. But, whatever.

Using a scrollwheel to scroll horizontally will bug me more-so, because it's so unnecessary. There is no good reason why Metro has to scroll horizontally on a desktop machine.

I had a bigger list of gripes I was forming, some of them more important, I think, but I left it at home.

Originally Posted by SezMe

I hope this isn't too much of a derail. I looked at VS11 (over VS10) and didn't see much for the individual developer (such as, me!). What "good stuff" do you see?

The new instant previewing feature in the IDE
The integrated Code Analysis window
Multi-browser support for ASP.NET in the IDE
The Async features in VB and C#
The obligatory improved support for HTML 5

Just to name a few.

Also, if you care about C++, you will be happy to know that the development features in VC++ have been upgraded to be on par with those of C# and VB, and that it has better support for C++11 standards.

Etc.

But, one little thing bugs me:

The tool panels ("Solution Explorer", "Toolbox", etc.) all have titles in capital letters, for some reason. It feels like the application is constantly SHOUTING at me! Granted, it's a minor GUI issue. But, it seems kinda stupid that someone, somewhere, thought it would be a good idea to push this less-readable stuff onto us developers. Don't you think?!

I will harp on this a little, because I think this might become another standard problem to deal with in a lot of Windows 8 applications. Not just their development tools.

The attached images demonstrate this:
This first one is from Windows 7 running Visual Studio 2010 Premium Edition. Note that its tool panels are Title Cased, and the icons are colorful, although the contrast in the title bar could use some improvement. And, not everyone liked the purple (though I didn't mind it).

(NOTE: You need to be logged in to see these images.)

This second one is from Windows 8 Consumer Preview running the current Visual Studio 11 Beta Premium Edition. Note how its panels are ALL IN CAPS, with rather annoying dotted handles. Makes it much more difficult to read. Plus, the icons are drabbier, and missing from the panel tabs. The only visual improvement is the higher contrast in the title bar. And, for some people, the lack of purple might help.

uruk · 17th April 2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Some of my complaints, such as the lack of a Start button is something I might "get used to". Moving to a corner without an icon telling me to move there is going to be weird, but doable.

The whole reason the Taskbar and Start Button were invented was to make it easier for people to see what was open and where to get stuff. In Windows 3.1 this was a problem: Minimized windows weren't easy to see or find, etc. Finding programs and utilities was as small chore. Taking a lot of that out seems like a step backwards to me. But, whatever.

I think the idea was to remove much of the on screen clutter to simplify the view.
This means you have to click or swipe to get the info you once had on constant display.

To view open programs you swipe or click on the left edge of the screen.

The "start" button is available by swiping or clicking on the right edge of the screen ("charms").

And the Metro tile "Start" screen is essentially all the programs you have installed on your computer presented to you immediately after logon.

And clicking the search charm (the magnifying glass icon) makes finding anything on your hard drive quick and easy. (I swear I am not a paid MS shill)

It's just the learning curve you have to get past.

Quote:

Using a scrollwheel to scroll horizontally will bug me more-so, because it's so unnecessary. There is no good reason why Metro has to scroll horizontally on a desktop machine.

I can't remember what the hot key is at the moment is but there is a way to shrink the Metro desktop to dispaly all the tiles all at once rather than scroll. I'll try to find out what it is.

varwoche · 17th April 2012, 01:51 PM

Just what the world needs. An interface that is limited (look ma, no windows) due to the limited screen size of a phone, implemented on large screen. Metro is beyond lame.

Wowbagger · 17th April 2012, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by uruk

I think the idea was to remove much of the on screen clutter to simplify the view.

I understand that. But, for many users it's going to be like Windows 3.1 all over again.

That "clutter" had to be added so people could see it.

Originally Posted by uruk

It's just the learning curve you have to get past.

But, after getting past it, the computer is now left in state that is still less easy to use, in general.

This isn't like the Office Ribbon. Yes, there was a learning curve there, but the advantage was that there was MORE visible on the screen, not less. It became easier to use Office (for most people) afterwards. And, more features could be put to better use.

Here, with Windows 8, there is less on the screen at any one given time. A typical user is going to use fewer of Windows' features, and they're going to be used a lot less effectively.

I don't mind "different". But, "different" shouldn't have to mean "worse off" in something like this.

Originally Posted by uruk

I can't remember what the hot key is at the moment is but there is a way to shrink the Metro desktop to dispaly all the tiles all at once rather than scroll. I'll try to find out what it is.

I found it, but it just makes everything tiny and harder to read. It doesn't take a genious to design a better interface: At the very least it could scroll vertically on the Desktop version.

Wowbagger · 17th April 2012, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by varwoche

Just what the world needs. An interface that is limited (look ma, no windows) due to the limited screen size of a phone, implemented on large screen.

That's a good way of putting it!

Wowbagger · 17th April 2012, 02:02 PM

Actually, there is one aspect of Metro-Style apps. I would like to defend: Statelessness. The idea is that you shouldn't have to worry if a Metro app is actually running or not.

If it hasn't been used in a while, it might be shut down, but the state will be saved, so when it starts up again, it will be as if it wasn't shut down. There is typically, no "exit" or "close" function in a Metro app.

That is something I can find value in. The days where an application's settings would only save upon "proper closing" are long gone.

But, it didn't have to be slapped into the OS sooo disjointedly!

dc1971 · 17th April 2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by uruk

I think the idea was to remove much of the on screen clutter to simplify the view.
This means you have to click or swipe to get the info you once had on constant display.

To view open programs you swipe or click on the left edge of the screen.

The "start" button is available by swiping or clicking on the right edge of the screen ("charms").

And the Metro tile "Start" screen is essentially all the programs you have installed on your computer presented to you immediately after logon.

And clicking the search charm (the magnifying glass icon) makes finding anything on your hard drive quick and easy. (I swear I am not a paid MS shill)

It's just the learning curve you have to get past.

I can't remember what the hot key is at the moment is but there is a way to shrink the Metro desktop to dispaly all the tiles all at once rather than scroll. I'll try to find out what it is.

Right click on an open area of the Metro. Select All Apps and it should list everything that's installed.

15th April 2012, 08:41 PM	#1
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033	Windows 8 Consumer Preview Questions... I just downloaded and installed Windows 8 Consumer Preview. I have been getting familiar with the new Metro interface and getting more acquainted with some of the new features. My initial reaction is that I'm very surprised and excited about how well this works on a desktop computer. I have yet to try it out on a tablet or laptop but I'm looking forward to the full release (apparently slated for fall of this year). Some questions I have and not sure if all can be answered here... Why is it that some third party programs have security issues? An example would be having problems logging in to iTunes, accessing web pages on G-Chrome, and content pop-ups on Internet Explorer. Is there something I'm missing? Also, there are many warnings telling me that I should Activate Windows yet when I perform activation it throws back an error. There is no option to call support with an activation code so I'm just curious as to why they would make a big deal about activation if there is no option to do so? Some of the Metro apps won't connect including the Microsoft Store. Should I be registering a Microsoft account in order to use this app or is the connection to the store presently disabled? Anyone here tinkering around with Windows 8? Am interested in any reactions you may have.
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033

15th April 2012, 08:44 PM	#2
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033	Questions about Windows 8 Consumer Preview... I just downloaded and installed Windows 8 Consumer Preview. I have been getting familiar with the new Metro interface and getting more acquainted with some of the new features. My initial reaction is that I'm very surprised and excited about how well this works on a desktop computer. I have yet to try it out on a tablet or laptop but I'm looking forward to the full release (apparently slated for fall of this year). Some questions I have and not sure if all can be answered here... Why is it that some third party programs have security issues? An example would be having problems logging in to iTunes, accessing web pages on G-Chrome, and content pop-ups on Internet Explorer. Is there something I'm missing? Also, there are many warnings telling me that I should Activate Windows yet when I perform activation it throws back an error. There is no option to call support with an activation code so I'm just curious as to why they would make a big deal about activation if there is no option to do so? Some of the Metro apps won't connect including the Microsoft Store. Should I be registering a Microsoft account in order to use this app or is the connection to the store presently disabled? Anyone here tinkering around with Windows 8? Am interested in any reactions you may have.
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033

15th April 2012, 09:28 PM	#3
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 13,505	Sorry I can't answer your questions. I am sure the issues with the major 3rd party apps. will be resolved when Win 8 is released. Though, it does tell you something about how much of a headache this new level of security is going to be for developers. I haven't had any Activation issues. But, so far, I can't say I'm a fan of Windows 8. At least not for desktops. The interface is non-intuitive for use with keyboards and mice, and the Metro interface does not integrate well with the Desktop interface. (And, it looks ugly, too. But, that's just a superficial point.) Visual Studio 11 has some good stuff going for it, at least. That's the beta I've been playing with the most.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

15th April 2012, 10:17 PM	#4
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,920	Originally Posted by Wowbagger Sorry I can't answer your questions. I am sure the issues with the major 3rd party apps. will be resolved when Win 8 is released. Though, it does tell you something about how much of a headache this new level of security is going to be for developers. I haven't had any Activation issues. But, so far, I can't say I'm a fan of Windows 8. At least not for desktops. The interface is non-intuitive for use with keyboards and mice, and the Metro interface does not integrate well with the Desktop interface. (And, it looks ugly, too. But, that's just a superficial point.) Visual Studio 11 has some good stuff going for it, at least. That's the beta I've been playing with the most. I was of the understanding that Win 8 is primarily for tablet and phone use, not for laptops or desktops. Doesn't mean that it won't work on laptops or desktops, just that it is optimized for those more mobile (and limited) platforms.
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,920	__________________ Trakar AKA/formerly TShaitanaku "Dubitanda quippe ad inquisitionem venimus; inquirendo veritatem percipimus." (By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth.) — Peter Abelard

15th April 2012, 10:27 PM	#5
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033	Originally Posted by Wowbagger Sorry I can't answer your questions. I am sure the issues with the major 3rd party apps. will be resolved when Win 8 is released. Though, it does tell you something about how much of a headache this new level of security is going to be for developers. I haven't had any Activation issues. But, so far, I can't say I'm a fan of Windows 8. At least not for desktops. The interface is non-intuitive for use with keyboards and mice, and the Metro interface does not integrate well with the Desktop interface. (And, it looks ugly, too. But, that's just a superficial point.) Visual Studio 11 has some good stuff going for it, at least. That's the beta I've been playing with the most. Got the activation figured out. I had to tend to the Activity Center and run Windows Update. Now I'm good.
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033

16th April 2012, 07:33 AM	#6
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 13,505	Originally Posted by Trakar I was of the understanding that Win 8 is primarily for tablet and phone use, not for laptops or desktops. Doesn't mean that it won't work on laptops or desktops, just that it is optimized for those more mobile (and limited) platforms. The desktop market is still formidable. It would be pretty stupid of them to shrug off usability for them, at this point in time.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

17th April 2012, 12:41 AM	#7
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033	After further exploration of the new interface, the Start Metro and the Desktop now being considered an "app" of sorts, my 2 cents is that Windows 8 will not only change our familiarity of GUI's past but this is by far the best version of Windows ever! I'm sure there are those who won't agree but I've given some time to tinker around with the Consumer Preview and it has not disappointed me at all. Sure, there are a few bugs to work out - specifically with some of the apps downloadable from the MS Store - but all in all Microsoft has hit a home run with their new OS. I have been an Apple user for years and own both PC and Mac computers. I was driven to my passion for computers, gaming, and technology through Apple computers. Microsoft came along and created an OS very similar to what was so familiar on the Mac however there was always this "feel" for the intuitive on the Mac that was just never there with the Windows OS. Call me a Mac cultist but I could always see what they meant by 'it just works'. Should I say that once Windows 8 is released, Apple is going to have a big challenge on their hands? First off, Windows 8 will be device compatible as well as sync capable. In other words, if I install Windows on a tablet, I will be able to sync everything to another device such as a desktop, laptop, or other portable Windows device including a phone. You cannot do that with an iPad. Secondly, I think they're taunting the Android market considering you will be able to install Windows 8 on ARM devices. This means if you feel Android just isn't cutting it, you can replace it with Windows. Google, unlike Apple, has a device compatible operating system however there's nothing specifically for laptop or desktop computers. There are many other features that I can explain here however there will also be more to discover in the months ahead up to the actual release of Win8. Apple will definitely have to step it up, in my opinion.
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033

17th April 2012, 12:46 AM	#8
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 16,370	Originally Posted by Wowbagger Visual Studio 11 has some good stuff going for it, at least. That's the beta I've been playing with the most. I hope this isn't too much of a derail. I looked at VS11 (over VS10) and didn't see much for the individual developer (such as, me!). What "good stuff" do you see?

17th April 2012, 07:13 AM	#9
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,264	Originally Posted by dc1971 I just downloaded and installed Windows 8 Consumer Preview. I have a question for you: Why? Get a Mac.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

17th April 2012, 08:03 AM	#10
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033	I have a Mac. Two.
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033

17th April 2012, 08:21 AM	#11
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,920	Originally Posted by Wowbagger The desktop market is still formidable. It would be pretty stupid of them to shrug off usability for them, at this point in time. No doubt, but 7 is fully functional and a pleasure to use and 8 is especially accomodating to mobile, but more limited, platforms. I see nothing wrong with them doing a bit of specialization with 8 and varients being specialized to mobile applications and 7 running more to the desktop and laptop systems. I don't much like shifting software every two years as it is, going in a couple of directions on a staggered basis with new software coming out every 4-6 years should be a much better arrangement, at least until the mobile devices themselves become capable of handling more true laptop/desktop functionality.
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,920	__________________ Trakar AKA/formerly TShaitanaku "Dubitanda quippe ad inquisitionem venimus; inquirendo veritatem percipimus." (By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth.) — Peter Abelard

17th April 2012, 08:25 AM	#12
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,920	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I have a question for you: Why? Get a Mac. Why? That seems like an even bigger step backwards?
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,920	__________________ Trakar AKA/formerly TShaitanaku "Dubitanda quippe ad inquisitionem venimus; inquirendo veritatem percipimus." (By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth.) — Peter Abelard

17th April 2012, 09:45 AM	#13
uruk Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: In the land of the Shatner stealing Mexico touchers Posts: 5,313	Originally Posted by Trakar I was of the understanding that Win 8 is primarily for tablet and phone use, not for laptops or desktops. Doesn't mean that it won't work on laptops or desktops, just that it is optimized for those more mobile (and limited) platforms. Windows 8 is meant for desktop also. It's has optimization for tablets and other mobile devices. There are also alot of people complaining that Win8 is awkward on a desktop. I've been using it since the developer preview and I personaly don't see thier issue but thats' just me. People tend to be skeptical of change. Win8 is Microsoft's way of dealing with the "Post PC" era. Mobile computing is taking over the industry and companies have to adpat or perish.
	__________________ Fourscore and seven years ago I tapped yo mama in a log cabin! Abe Lincoln

17th April 2012, 10:53 AM	#14
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,920	Originally Posted by uruk Windows 8 is meant for desktop also. It's has optimization for tablets and other mobile devices. There are also alot of people complaining that Win8 is awkward on a desktop. I've been using it since the developer preview and I personaly don't see thier issue but thats' just me. People tend to be skeptical of change. Win8 is Microsoft's way of dealing with the "Post PC" era. Mobile computing is taking over the industry and companies have to adpat or perish. Largely agreed on all counts. I've played around on the trial versions of 8 just because I am anticipating the flood of Win8 phones and tablets this summer, and it seems more than functional. Depending upon how long MS goes before the next release, I may skip 8 for server and desktops mainly because 7 seems to be such a robust and stable system, at least for everything we require of it.
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,920	__________________ Trakar AKA/formerly TShaitanaku "Dubitanda quippe ad inquisitionem venimus; inquirendo veritatem percipimus." (By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth.) — Peter Abelard

17th April 2012, 11:32 AM	#15
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 13,505	Some of my complaints, such as the lack of a Start button is something I might "get used to". Moving to a corner without an icon telling me to move there is going to be weird, but doable. The whole reason the Taskbar and Start Button were invented was to make it easier for people to see what was open and where to get stuff. In Windows 3.1 this was a problem: Minimized windows weren't easy to see or find, etc. Finding programs and utilities was as small chore. Taking a lot of that out seems like a step backwards to me. But, whatever. Using a scrollwheel to scroll horizontally will bug me more-so, because it's so unnecessary. There is no good reason why Metro has to scroll horizontally on a desktop machine. I had a bigger list of gripes I was forming, some of them more important, I think, but I left it at home. Originally Posted by SezMe I hope this isn't too much of a derail. I looked at VS11 (over VS10) and didn't see much for the individual developer (such as, me!). What "good stuff" do you see? The new instant previewing feature in the IDE The integrated Code Analysis window Multi-browser support for ASP.NET in the IDE The Async features in VB and C# The obligatory improved support for HTML 5 Just to name a few. Also, if you care about C++, you will be happy to know that the development features in VC++ have been upgraded to be on par with those of C# and VB, and that it has better support for C++11 standards. Etc. But, one little thing bugs me: The tool panels ("Solution Explorer", "Toolbox", etc.) all have titles in capital letters, for some reason. It feels like the application is constantly SHOUTING at me! Granted, it's a minor GUI issue. But, it seems kinda stupid that someone, somewhere, thought it would be a good idea to push this less-readable stuff onto us developers. Don't you think?! I will harp on this a little, because I think *this might* become another standard problem to deal with in a lot of Windows 8 applications**. Not just their development tools. The attached images demonstrate this: This first one is from Windows 7 running Visual Studio 2010 Premium Edition. Note that its tool panels are Title Cased, and the icons are colorful, although the contrast in the title bar could use some improvement. And, not everyone liked the purple (though I didn't mind it). (NOTE: You need to be logged in to see these images.) This second one is from Windows 8 Consumer Preview running the current Visual Studio 11 Beta Premium Edition. Note how its panels are ALL IN CAPS, with rather annoying dotted handles. Makes it much more difficult to read. Plus, the icons are drabbier, and missing from the panel tabs. The only visual improvement is the higher contrast in the title bar. And, for some people, the lack of purple might help.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!! Last edited by Wowbagger; 17th April 2012 at 11:52 AM.

17th April 2012, 01:14 PM	#16
uruk Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: In the land of the Shatner stealing Mexico touchers Posts: 5,313	Originally Posted by Wowbagger Some of my complaints, such as the lack of a Start button is something I might "get used to". Moving to a corner without an icon telling me to move there is going to be weird, but doable. The whole reason the Taskbar and Start Button were invented was to make it easier for people to see what was open and where to get stuff. In Windows 3.1 this was a problem: Minimized windows weren't easy to see or find, etc. Finding programs and utilities was as small chore. Taking a lot of that out seems like a step backwards to me. But, whatever. I think the idea was to remove much of the on screen clutter to simplify the view. This means you have to click or swipe to get the info you once had on constant display. To view open programs you swipe or click on the left edge of the screen. The "start" button is available by swiping or clicking on the right edge of the screen ("charms"). And the Metro tile "Start" screen is essentially all the programs you have installed on your computer presented to you immediately after logon. And clicking the search charm (the magnifying glass icon) makes finding anything on your hard drive quick and easy. (I swear I am not a paid MS shill) It's just the learning curve you have to get past. Quote: Using a scrollwheel to scroll horizontally will bug me more-so, because it's so unnecessary. There is no good reason why Metro has to scroll horizontally on a desktop machine. I can't remember what the hot key is at the moment is but there is a way to shrink the Metro desktop to dispaly all the tiles all at once rather than scroll. I'll try to find out what it is.
	__________________ Fourscore and seven years ago I tapped yo mama in a log cabin! Abe Lincoln Last edited by uruk; 17th April 2012 at 01:16 PM.

17th April 2012, 01:51 PM	#17
varwoche Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 7,228	Just what the world needs. An interface that is limited (look ma, no windows) due to the limited screen size of a phone, implemented on large screen. Metro is beyond lame.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot (and/or Fat Jack)

17th April 2012, 01:54 PM	#18
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 13,505	Originally Posted by uruk I think the idea was to remove much of the on screen clutter to simplify the view. I understand that. But, for many users it's going to be like Windows 3.1 all over again. That "clutter" had to be added so people could see it. Originally Posted by uruk It's just the learning curve you have to get past. But, after getting past it, the computer is now left in state that is still less easy to use, in general. This isn't like the Office Ribbon. Yes, there was a learning curve there, but the advantage was that there was MORE visible on the screen, not less. It became easier to use Office (for most people) afterwards. And, more features could be put to better use. Here, with Windows 8, there is less on the screen at any one given time. A typical user is going to use fewer of Windows' features, and they're going to be used a lot less effectively. I don't mind "different". But, "different" shouldn't have to mean "worse off" in something like this. Originally Posted by uruk I can't remember what the hot key is at the moment is but there is a way to shrink the Metro desktop to dispaly all the tiles all at once rather than scroll. I'll try to find out what it is. I found it, but it just makes everything tiny and harder to read. It doesn't take a genious to design a better interface: At the very least it could scroll vertically on the Desktop version.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

17th April 2012, 01:55 PM	#19
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 13,505	Originally Posted by varwoche Just what the world needs. An interface that is limited (look ma, no windows) due to the limited screen size of a phone, implemented on large screen. That's a good way of putting it!
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

17th April 2012, 02:02 PM	#20
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 13,505	Actually, there is one aspect of Metro-Style apps. I would like to defend: Statelessness. The idea is that you shouldn't have to worry if a Metro app is actually running or not. If it hasn't been used in a while, it might be shut down, but the state will be saved, so when it starts up again, it will be as if it wasn't shut down. There is typically, no "exit" or "close" function in a Metro app. That is something I can find value in. The days where an application's settings would only save upon "proper closing" are long gone. But, it didn't have to be slapped into the OS sooo disjointedly!
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

17th April 2012, 02:30 PM	#21
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033	Originally Posted by uruk I think the idea was to remove much of the on screen clutter to simplify the view. This means you have to click or swipe to get the info you once had on constant display. To view open programs you swipe or click on the left edge of the screen. The "start" button is available by swiping or clicking on the right edge of the screen ("charms"). And the Metro tile "Start" screen is essentially all the programs you have installed on your computer presented to you immediately after logon. And clicking the search charm (the magnifying glass icon) makes finding anything on your hard drive quick and easy. (I swear I am not a paid MS shill) It's just the learning curve you have to get past. I can't remember what the hot key is at the moment is but there is a way to shrink the Metro desktop to dispaly all the tiles all at once rather than scroll. I'll try to find out what it is. Right click on an open area of the Metro. Select All Apps and it should list everything that's installed.
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033