Mishka the Talking Dog, Evolution. And Rights. - Page 3

Bill Thompson · 16th April 2012, 07:46 PM

Q: If a dog could ask for an abortion, do we have the moral duty to rip out the unborn litter?

A: Oh heck, no, dogs are pets and cute little puppies bring joy to families. Even if the dog did not want them because she is an internet superstar (

) and does not want to look fat or whatever, these reasons are selfish and trivial.

Q: Couldn't one say that about human babies.

A: No.

Q: Why?

(sound of crickets)

Q: OK, could one say it is the same sort of thing in some cases for human babies?

(sound of crickets)

Look, I am pro-choice, so don't resort to name-calling like Liberals always do. I am just saying that this is an interesting angle to view this issue from.

AdMan · 16th April 2012, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Q: If a dog could ask for an abortion, do we have the moral duty to rip out the unborn litter?

A: Oh heck, no, dogs are pets and cute little puppies bring joy to families. Even if the dog did not want them because she is an internet superstar () and does not want to look fat or whatever, these reasons are selfish and trivial.

Q: Couldn't one say that about human babies.

A: No.

Q: Why?

(sound of crickets)

Q: OK, could one say it is the same sort of thing in some cases for human babies?

(sound of crickets)

They can't.

Originally Posted by AdMan

The initial question is a joke. Anything implicit in that question is little more than a joke.

Trying to make a point on abortion rights by posting idiocy is a joke, whether the OP intended it or not.

arthwollipot · 16th April 2012, 07:56 PM

I love these inner fantasy dialogues. One day I'm going to collate them all into a book and call it "Things People Think People Say".

Andrew Wiggin · 16th April 2012, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by LogicFail

Hmmm, I suspect the cat's just don't care. Apathy can make testing difficult

In a similar vein, Honey Badgers are actually excellent mathematicians.

Andrew Wiggin · 16th April 2012, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Tacita

I'm willing to buy Alex the African Grey parrot who died.

That, Sir, is an Ex-parrot. He's pushing up the daisies.

PhantomWolf · 16th April 2012, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggin

In a similar vein, Honey Badgers are actually excellent mathematicians.

But not as good as camels...

BravesFan · 17th April 2012, 01:23 AM

If a cricket could explain the situation of his 57 children and lonely wife at home to the spider , I'm sure that they might come upon a compromise, but they cannot, so the spider has a meal, and the cricket dies. That's life....sometimes condoms break missy :-)

Brian-M · 17th April 2012, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Q: If a dog could ask for an abortion, do we have the moral duty to rip out the unborn litter?

A: No. We have no moral obligation to grant or refuse abortions solely on the basis that an abortion has been requested, regardless of the species of the person making the request. (But this is irrelevant to whether or not it is immoral to do so.)

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

A: Oh heck, no, dogs are pets and cute little puppies bring joy to families. Even if the dog did not want them because she is an internet superstar (

) and does not want to look fat or whatever, these reasons are selfish and trivial.

Q: Couldn't one say that about human babies.

~~A: No.~~

A: Yes. Cute little babies do bring joy to families in many instances, just like cute little puppies. Wanting to have an abortion simply for vanity might be a selfish and/or trivial reason in some cases.

For example; if her partner wanted a baby and the woman decides to deny her partner the opportunity to reproduce simply because she doesn't want to look fat/bloated for several months that would be a selfish and trivial reason. But not necessarily an invalid reason.

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Q: Why?

(sound of crickets)

Is anyone actually giving the responses you're providing? Or is this just a strawman argument created for the sake of making a fuss?

____________________________

Originally Posted by Tatyana

Dogs Smarter Than Cats, Oxford Study Finds

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-7082868.html

And pigs are smarter than dogs.

Mike! · 17th April 2012, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

But not as good as camels...

Only because they count on their toes.

Weak Kitten · 17th April 2012, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Look, I am pro-choice, so don't resort to name-calling like Liberals always do. I am just saying that this is an interesting angle to view this issue from.

I think the reason people are reacting so poorly is that many posters propose improbable situations as an underhanded debating tactic. Once one improbable setup has been accepted by the forum then additional improbabilities are added to bring the situation to whatever the debater wants it to be rather than what reality actually is.

Does anyone know if there is a term for this logical fallacy? It's not quite moving the goalposts since the shape, size, and location of the goalposts is changeable from the very beginning.

sphenisc · 19th April 2012, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Tacita

I'm willing to buy Alex the African Grey parrot who died.

That saves me doing all the "pining for the fiords" bit then.

Seismosaurus · 19th April 2012, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Look, I am pro-choice, so don't resort to name-calling like Liberals always do.

Well what should we resort to then? Because so far you've completely ignored those who have resorted to actually answering your questions and discussing the issues... apparently in favour of having conversations with yourself.

stokes234 · 19th April 2012, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Q: If a dog could ask for an abortion, do we have the moral duty to rip out the unborn litter?

A: Oh heck, no, dogs are pets and cute little puppies bring joy to families. Even if the dog did not want them because she is an internet superstar (

) and does not want to look fat or whatever, these reasons are selfish and trivial.

words

Look, I am pro-choice, so don't resort to name-calling like Liberals always do. I am just saying that this is an interesting angle to view this issue from.

You appear to be saying that you're pro-choice for people, but not pro-choice for dogs in some absurd alternative reality, and therefore maybe you're not pro-choice for people.

I suggest that you're not actually pro-choice for people, you're just claiming you are as part of a weird debating strategy.

luchog · 19th April 2012, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by slingblade

If one of my pets became able to clearly request something of me, in my language, I'd have no problem honoring that request.

If one of my pets became able to clearly request something of me, in my language, I'd seriously consider the possibility I was having an acid flashback.

On a more serious note; the "talking" thing has been sufficiently debunked. As for animals having the same rights as humans, that's also nonsense. When they can demonstrate the same level of sentience, then they have the same rights. I'm all for supporting animal welfare and opposing cruelty; but the notion that animals can possibly have rights equal to humans is ludicrous to me.

16th April 2012, 07:46 PM	#81
Bill Thompson Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Redmond, Washington Posts: 6,176	Q: If a dog could ask for an abortion, do we have the moral duty to rip out the unborn litter? A: Oh heck, no, dogs are pets and cute little puppies bring joy to families. Even if the dog did not want them because she is an internet superstar () and does not want to look fat or whatever, these reasons are selfish and trivial. Q: Couldn't one say that about human babies. A: No. Q: Why? (sound of crickets) Q: OK, could one say it is the same sort of thing in some cases for human babies? (sound of crickets) Look, I am pro-choice, so don't resort to name-calling like Liberals always do. I am just saying that this is an interesting angle to view this issue from.
	Last edited by Bill Thompson; 16th April 2012 at 07:48 PM.

16th April 2012, 07:47 PM	#82
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson Q: If a dog could ask for an abortion, do we have the moral duty to rip out the unborn litter? A: Oh heck, no, dogs are pets and cute little puppies bring joy to families. Even if the dog did not want them because she is an internet superstar () and does not want to look fat or whatever, these reasons are selfish and trivial. Q: Couldn't one say that about human babies. A: No. Q: Why? (sound of crickets) Q: OK, could one say it is the same sort of thing in some cases for human babies? (sound of crickets) They can't. Originally Posted by AdMan The initial question is a joke. Anything implicit in that question is little more than a joke. Trying to make a point on abortion rights by posting idiocy is a joke, whether the OP intended it or not.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan Last edited by AdMan; 16th April 2012 at 09:04 PM.

16th April 2012, 07:56 PM	#83
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,011	I love these inner fantasy dialogues. One day I'm going to collate them all into a book and call it "Things People Think People Say".
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

16th April 2012, 08:49 PM	#84
Andrew Wiggin Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: A small planet named for its dirt. You'll find it filed under 'mostly harmless' Posts: 2,914	Originally Posted by LogicFail Hmmm, I suspect the cat's just don't care. Apathy can make testing difficult In a similar vein, Honey Badgers are actually excellent mathematicians.
	__________________ "Everyone takes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the world." - Arthur Schopenhauer "New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells

16th April 2012, 08:58 PM	#85
Andrew Wiggin Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: A small planet named for its dirt. You'll find it filed under 'mostly harmless' Posts: 2,914	Originally Posted by Tacita I'm willing to buy Alex the African Grey parrot who died. That, Sir, is an Ex-parrot. He's pushing up the daisies.
	__________________ "Everyone takes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the world." - Arthur Schopenhauer "New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells

16th April 2012, 09:21 PM	#86
PhantomWolf Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lost Deimos Moon Base Posts: 9,932	Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggin In a similar vein, Honey Badgers are actually excellent mathematicians. But not as good as camels...
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My Apollo Page. 1 on 1 Debating Forum for Skeptics and sceptics.

17th April 2012, 01:23 AM	#87
BravesFan Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ocean Springs, Ms Posts: 1,784	If a cricket could explain the situation of his 57 children and lonely wife at home to the spider , I'm sure that they might come upon a compromise, but they cannot, so the spider has a meal, and the cricket dies. That's life....sometimes condoms break missy :-)

17th April 2012, 01:54 AM	#88
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,267	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson Q: If a dog could ask for an abortion, do we have the moral duty to rip out the unborn litter? A: No. We have no moral obligation to grant or refuse abortions solely on the basis that an abortion has been requested, regardless of the species of the person making the request. (But this is irrelevant to whether or not it is immoral to do so.) Originally Posted by Bill Thompson A: Oh heck, no, dogs are pets and cute little puppies bring joy to families. Even if the dog did not want them because she is an internet superstar () and does not want to look fat or whatever, these reasons are selfish and trivial. Q: Couldn't one say that about human babies. ~~A: No.~~ A: Yes. Cute little babies do bring joy to families in many instances, just like cute little puppies. Wanting to have an abortion simply for vanity might be a selfish and/or trivial reason in some cases. For example; if her partner wanted a baby and the woman decides to deny her partner the opportunity to reproduce simply because she doesn't want to look fat/bloated for several months that would be a selfish and trivial reason. But not necessarily an invalid reason. Originally Posted by Bill Thompson Q: Why? (sound of crickets) Is anyone actually giving the responses you're providing? Or is this just a strawman argument created for the sake of making a fuss? ____________________________ Originally Posted by Tatyana Dogs Smarter Than Cats, Oxford Study Finds http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-7082868.html And pigs are smarter than dogs.
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

17th April 2012, 04:59 PM	#89
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 10,237	Originally Posted by PhantomWolf But not as good as camels... Only because they count on their toes.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

17th April 2012, 06:13 PM	#90
Weak Kitten Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lost and lonely...will you be my friend? Posts: 1,723	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson Look, I am pro-choice, so don't resort to name-calling like Liberals always do. I am just saying that this is an interesting angle to view this issue from. I think the reason people are reacting so poorly is that many posters propose improbable situations as an underhanded debating tactic. Once one improbable setup has been accepted by the forum then additional improbabilities are added to bring the situation to whatever the debater wants it to be rather than what reality actually is. Does anyone know if there is a term for this logical fallacy? It's not quite moving the goalposts since the shape, size, and location of the goalposts is changeable from the very beginning.
	__________________ A quick reminder to all participants that although incomprehensibility is not against the Membership Agreement, incivility is. Please try and remember this, and keep your exchanges polite and respectful. -arthwollipot

19th April 2012, 02:27 AM	#91
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,749	Originally Posted by Tacita I'm willing to buy Alex the African Grey parrot who died. That saves me doing all the "pining for the fiords" bit then.
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,749

19th April 2012, 07:55 AM	#92
Seismosaurus Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Banbury Posts: 3,543	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson Look, I am pro-choice, so don't resort to name-calling like Liberals always do. Well what should we resort to then? Because so far you've completely ignored those who have resorted to actually answering your questions and discussing the issues... apparently in favour of having conversations with yourself.
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul

19th April 2012, 08:36 AM	#93
stokes234 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: UK Posts: 2,295	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson Q: If a dog could ask for an abortion, do we have the moral duty to rip out the unborn litter? A: Oh heck, no, dogs are pets and cute little puppies bring joy to families. Even if the dog did not want them because she is an internet superstar () and does not want to look fat or whatever, these reasons are selfish and trivial. words Look, I am pro-choice, so don't resort to name-calling like Liberals always do. I am just saying that this is an interesting angle to view this issue from. You appear to be saying that you're pro-choice for people, but not pro-choice for dogs in some absurd alternative reality, and therefore maybe you're not pro-choice for people. I suggest that you're not actually pro-choice for people, you're just claiming you are as part of a weird debating strategy.
	__________________ "I offer the world my genius. All I ask in return is that the world cover my expenses." Hugo Rune

19th April 2012, 12:02 PM	#94
luchog Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Emerald City Posts: 7,958	Originally Posted by slingblade If one of my pets became able to clearly request something of me, in my language, I'd have no problem honoring that request. If one of my pets became able to clearly request something of me, in my language, I'd seriously consider the possibility I was having an acid flashback. On a more serious note; the "talking" thing has been sufficiently debunked. As for animals having the same rights as humans, that's also nonsense. When they can demonstrate the same level of sentience, then they have the same rights. I'm all for supporting animal welfare and opposing cruelty; but the notion that animals can possibly have rights equal to humans is ludicrous to me.
	__________________ "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams "The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf "Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon Last edited by luchog; 19th April 2012 at 12:04 PM.