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Dancing David · 22nd April 2012, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by IDB87

That's not the same.

Someone buys two pounds of beef - they then (through SCIENCE!) replicate the beef and give it away for free. OP takes the free two pounds of beef, and does what they will with it.

How is that stealing? OP wasn't going to buy the original beef, and the person who did buy it gave a copy of the original away for free.

A movie is not two pound of beef.

Babbylonian · 22nd April 2012, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Morrigan

I wonder... we downloaded Game of Thrones when season 1 was running, but we had every intention of getting the blu-rays whenever they'd come out. I knew 100% that I would buy them, and I did. I will do the same with all future seasons.

Is it still "wrong" (I'm not asking if it's illegal, I don't care one bit about that :P) to download a TV series that you know in advance you'll purchase on hard disc? I really don't think so. I got to watch the show a bit in advance, but no one was deprived of a sale.

The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent, you're simultaneously uploading it (or pieces of it) to any number of other people who aren't going to be as scrupulous about paying for the content when it's available in another format.

So, yeah, I'd still call it "wrong" even setting aside the illegality. On a right/wrong continuum I'd say you're in about the least wrong segment, but still...

TheL8Elvis · 23rd April 2012, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent, you're simultaneously uploading it (or pieces of it) to any number of other people who aren't going to be as scrupulous about paying for the content when it's available in another format.

So, yeah, I'd still call it "wrong" even setting aside the illegality. On a right/wrong continuum I'd say you're in about the least wrong segment, but still...

I don't think it's terribly egregious. I would just think of it as 'civil disobedience against tyrannical laws.

And worth repeating:
http://ihnatko.com/2012/02/20/heavy-...nts-the-crown/

The world does not OWE you Season 1 of “Game Of Thrones” in the form you want it at the moment you want it at the price you want to pay for it. If it’s not available under 100% your terms, you have the free-and-clear option of not having it.

SumDood · 23rd April 2012, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Morrigan

I wonder... we downloaded Game of Thrones when season 1 was running, but we had every intention of getting the blu-rays whenever they'd come out. I knew 100% that I would buy them, and I did. I will do the same with all future seasons.

Is it still "wrong" (I'm not asking if it's illegal, I don't care one bit about that :P) to download a TV series that you know in advance you'll purchase on hard disc? I really don't think so. I got to watch the show a bit in advance, but no one was deprived of a sale.

I know "no one was deprived of a sale" is a common excuse for downloading content one would never pay for anyway. One can either not pay for something and never consume it. Or not pay for it and consume it via illegal means.

Not that its a good excuse, just one I have heard used in the past.

OnlyTellsTruths · 24th April 2012, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

it is not illegal to download tv shows so why not

Isn't it??

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent, you're simultaneously uploading it (or pieces of it) to any number of other people who aren't going to be as scrupulous about paying for the content when it's available in another format.

Technically that isn't true because you can turn off the Upload.

The trackers (and individuals) used to try and keep "track" of people who did that and shut them off or give them bad download speed, but I assume it was just too complicated. Turning off your upload won't affect you on at least 90 percent of torrents these days.

------------------

Here's an interesting angle on a related copyright issue I just saw in the Science section:

Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths

Originally Posted by Stomatopoda

It's going to be hilarious when the collectible figure makers start complaining about piracy from these.

So once replicators (3D printers) are cheap the US government will make them illegal?

Making copies of DVDs is so 20th century. The future of counterfeiting is 3D Printing!

Belz... · 24th April 2012, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mark6

Months ago I cancelled my cable subscription because it is blatantly not worth $100 a month to me. My family does not watch much TV, and what we do watch we get for free from the web, or for $8 a month from Netflix. This week for the first time since cancelling cable I wanted to watch something not legally available on web (including Netflix) -- Season 2 of "Game of Thrones". I went to HBO Go website, as some ads suggested I could buy the show there. That turned out not to be the case -- once you click on "Game of Thrones episode X", it takes you to a page which sells you complete HBO package. Which I emphatically do not want.

After finding that out, I installed a Bit Torrent downloader, and downloaded first and second episodes of Season Two. I would have happily paid HBO five or six dollars per episode -- which would actually bring HBO more money than buying a DVD set after season ends. But HBO is not offering shows a la carte... so screw them.

So you just decided that they didn't deserve your money. How convenient.

Quote:

While my argument is not reasonable with respect to houses/cars, it is reasonable with respect to anything easily divisible. Like food or data.

For sure, the situation is different to a degree, but the data is still their property.

Belz... · 24th April 2012, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

They are quite skippable - it just requires better firmware than the default firmware on most DVD players.

(IOW the firmware has to ignore the UOP flag)

Personally I don't understand why some things are unskippable on DVDs. I mean, I don't care about seeing the company's logo. I know, I just bought their product, they don't need to sell it to me. And the copyright notice ? Not reading it doesn't absolve me of any responsibility in case I copy it, and it's not like I never read it before, so I don't know why many companies still make that unskippable.

Belz... · 24th April 2012, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by icerat

What's annoying me, and I think virtually encourages piracy, is Facebook, or more specifically, the show producers on Facebook.

80% of Facebook users, including myself, are outside of North America. Like many people I "like" many of the TV shows I watch.

What do they do? Constantly tempt and harass me with news about the next (US) episode ... "don't miss it tonight!!" etc etc with trailers and competitions and other news and info.

I can wait weeks, or months, until the episode comes to my country. I can visit their website and get "this content not available in your country".

Or I can download it illegally and watch it the next day.

Hey, they told me not to miss it!

I do agree that anti-piracy or anti-distribution tricks by those companies seem to be more likely to backfire. Not all smart people, there.

Belz... · 24th April 2012, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by Donn

5. Should there not be a way that those less fortunate than me can access the same culture - at no charge?

No.

Belz... · 24th April 2012, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Morrigan

I wonder... we downloaded Game of Thrones when season 1 was running, but we had every intention of getting the blu-rays whenever they'd come out. I knew 100% that I would buy them, and I did. I will do the same with all future seasons.

Is it still "wrong" (I'm not asking if it's illegal, I don't care one bit about that :P) to download a TV series that you know in advance you'll purchase on hard disc? I really don't think so. I got to watch the show a bit in advance, but no one was deprived of a sale.

Personally I don't have a problem with such a practice. It's not technically legal but since it's zero-sum I'm not bothered by it.

There's a lot about copyright laws that I feel actually loses sales.

IDB87 · 26th April 2012, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by Dancing David

A movie is not two pound of beef.

Most of them are two pounds of something.

Morrigan · 27th April 2012, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent

Ah, but I'm not.

And, as someone else said, you can turn off upload anyway.

Originally Posted by SumDood

I know "no one was deprived of a sale" is a common excuse for downloading content one would never pay for anyway. One can either not pay for something and never consume it. Or not pay for it and consume it via illegal means.

Not that its a good excuse, just one I have heard used in the past.

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote, considering I did pay for the content...

mutile · 27th April 2012, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths

Isn't it??

Not that I am aware of what law would I be breaking?

Babbylonian · 27th April 2012, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

Not that I am aware of what law would I be breaking?

Downloading television shows from sources that don't have the copyright holders' express permission to distribute is a violation of copyright law ("illegal").

mutile · 27th April 2012, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

Downloading television shows from sources that don't have the copyright holders' express permission to distribute is a violation of copyright law ("illegal").

source?

TheL8Elvis · 28th April 2012, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

source?

Are you waiting to say downloading is not distributing ?

mutile · 28th April 2012, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

Are you waiting to say downloading is not distributing ?

I'm waiting for evidence that downloading tv shows is illegal.

TheL8Elvis · 28th April 2012, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by mutile

I'm waiting for evidence that downloading tv shows is illegal.

OK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._Copyright_Act

mutile · 28th April 2012, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

OK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._Copyright_Act

can you be more specific I don't know about US law and that page doesn't mention downloading at all

TheL8Elvis · 28th April 2012, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by mutile

can you be more specific I don't know about US law and that page doesn't mention downloading at all

Well, from my perspective, this conversation is US. I don't know any other countries law better than US, and and I don't know US law that well

It has to do with making a copy, which you are technically doing by downloading. It's probably debatable in theory, perhaps less so in practice. I also don't think I can't point to any cases where it's been used in a scenario where someone was only downloading (say usenet ... I know, never talk about usenet....)

WildCat · 29th April 2012, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by JJM 777

In Finland I pay 20 EUR per month as a compulsory television ownership tax, which funds the two free national totally ad-free channels, plus some 10 other free ad-funded channels.

I can get more channels than that totally free (no monthly tax) over the air. Finland sounds expensive!

$100/month gets you hundreds of channels, including ad-free movie channels like HBO, Showtime, etc.

OnlyTellsTruths · 29th April 2012, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

I can get more channels than that totally free (no monthly tax) over the air. Finland sounds expensive!

$100/month gets you hundreds of channels, including ad-free movie channels like HBO, Showtime, etc.

Dish Network offers the $29.99 America's Top 120 package which you can frequently find on sale for $19.99.

http://www.dish.com/entertainment/pa...ricas-top-120/

Sometimes that lasts for only a year or so depending on the contract and which re-seller you bought it from, and it goes up to $45. But if you tell them you're going to cancel they will lower it to at least $35.

Aidoneus · 30th April 2012, 08:40 AM

Using BitTorrent just got harder in the UK: BBC News - The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

IDB87 · 30th April 2012, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Aidoneus

Using BitTorrent just got harder in the UK: BBC News - The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

Womp womp woooom..

Fuzzy Dunlop · 30th April 2012, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Aidoneus

Using BitTorrent just got harder in the UK: BBC News - The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

That should make just about no difference at all. Also:

Quote:

"Its operators line their pockets by commercially exploiting music and other creative works without paying a penny to the people who created them.

How does Pirate Bay make money? Ads?

IDB87 · 30th April 2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

How does Pirate Bay make money? Ads?

Donations I imagine. Any other way is disputed.

TheL8Elvis · 11th May 2012, 02:04 PM

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-options.shtml

Game Of Thrones On Track To Be Most Pirated Show Of 2012; Pirates Still Asking HBO For Legitimate Options

Much like the North, Game of Thrones cannot be held—it's too big and too wild. Matthew Inman warned HBO that they should make their content more accessible or risk driving people to piracy, but that isn't really HBO's style. Now jilocasin points us to the news that Game of Thrones is well on track to be the most torrented show of 2012, and nobody can deny that HBO's foolish subscriber-only distribution is a primary reason for that. Approximately 25-million times have people decided to pay the iron price for the show, and as the comments on Reddit attest, it's often because the gold price wasn't even an option. Others pay for the show but still pirate for the sake of occasional convenience...

Eligbak · 19th May 2012, 06:29 AM

Game of Thrones wouldn't be known around the world, if it wasn't for filesharing. People talk about it because they've seen and liked it. That's a lot of free hype for HBO, a fact the content distribution industry in general always forgets to mention.

The "captive customer" business model may work in a particular market, but I dare say no customer honestly likes it - except for the crowd dancing around the hallucinogenic apple idol over there. Or should, if (s)he's got the notion that the market should offer a good choice, not just between necessary evils. "Necessary" and "evil" being subjective, meaning it should be fun to buy non-essential ghafla like entertainment. What's okay for political parties and shoes definitely doesn't do for having fun.

Pay TV was an acceptable, ad-free compromise in the '90's, but nowadays there's so much "liberated" and ad-free content out there, I'm made to feel stupid for attempting to always play by the rules. I know no-one who hasn't at least once downloaded something just out of curiosity. You needn't be afraid of getting caught, either, as long as you're reasonably selective and conscious of the risks.

I can't see the cult of the copyright growing grassroots support, rather the opposite. We may still feel that taking something for nothing is morally wrong, but it's gotten mixed up with globalization, patent-grabbing, anti-corporatism and -capitalism and the prerogatives of the economically stricken to be excused from paying for stuff they couldn't afford otherwise.

Dancing David · 19th May 2012, 06:52 AM

And when all products are like Syfy, that is what will happen. The deal is that the pay for model, pays for high production values. And it is not limited to HBO, AMC has done well with Mad Men and Walking Dead, with lots of commercials.

However HBO uses their model quite well, we have HBO for just that reason, my wife likes True Blood and we both watch Games of Thrones. Personally I don't watch much TV, my wife watches a lot more.

The issue I have is that content producers do it for one thing to make money. If they don't make money then we end up with Syfy quality material (which can be entertaining for the laugh value). The big networks are too cautious to ever make a Sopranos, Six Feet Under, True Blood or Boardwalk Empire.

So while I understand the idea, content productions are the property of the producer and just like cars, the ease of committing a crime does not make it acceptable.

Eligbak · 19th May 2012, 09:09 AM

US folks can probably tell at a glance how many of the TV series on this list) were produced by HBO, or rather HBO exclusives. Game of Thrones and The Wire, and Rome probably, too? (I never saw that)

I'm no big series watcher; I remember Waking the Dead (UK) and ReGenesis (Canadian TV). Quality content tends to come from the UK imv.

Corsair 115 · 19th May 2012, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Eligbak

Game of Thrones wouldn't be known around the world, if it wasn't for filesharing. People talk about it because they've seen and liked it. That's a lot of free hype for HBO, a fact the content distribution industry in general always forgets to mention.

But unless that "free hype" as you put it translates into revenue in some manner at some point, the free hype isn't helping HBO.

wackyvorlon · 19th May 2012, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Corsair 115

But unless that "free hype" as you put it translates into revenue in some manner at some point, the free hype isn't helping HBO.

Mind, quantifying any monetary benefit from said hype is an impossibility. We can only speak qualitatively. You cannot know if it helped or not.

Corsair 115 · 19th May 2012, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by wackyvorlon

Mind, quantifying any monetary benefit from said hype is an impossibility.

I don't think it's impossible. It would, however, likely require some comprehensive market research on the part of HBO to find out exactly what led a customer to purchase an HBO product, i.e. something along the lines of a "How did you hear about our product/service?" type of question one can often find from companies requesting customer feedback.

Sideroxylon · 19th May 2012, 10:28 PM

I watch all my "stolen" TV shows on YouTube.

wackyvorlon · 19th May 2012, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Corsair 115

I don't think it's impossible. It would, however, likely require some comprehensive market research on the part of HBO to find out exactly what led a customer to purchase an HBO product, i.e. something along the lines of a "How did you hear about our product/service?" type of question one can often find from companies requesting customer feedback.

That requires people self-reporting, though. There's no guarantee they will remember it correctly, or even tell the truth.

Alan · 19th May 2012, 10:55 PM

I don't feel guilty about using BitTorrent because I use it to download linux distros, using the torrent file from their site. BitTorrent can be used for legal purposes.

...although I don't keep seeding for long because my upload speed is terrible so it's not worth it for anyone.

I do stream some shows that won't be released where I live for a long time, and plan on buying the DVD/Blu-ray, though.

OnlyTellsTruths · 19th May 2012, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Eligbak

Pay TV was an acceptable, ad-free compromise in the '90's, but nowadays there's so much "liberated" and ad-free content out there, I'm made to feel stupid for attempting to always play by the rules.

This reminds me of how confused I was in the early 80s that pay-cable TV channels still had commercials. How much more than free do I have to pay to not have commercials, I said. Apparently, as with HBO, not that much. Why didn't we have that option with the other cable TV channels though.

At least 20 years later DVR made that an obsolete issue.

They missed out on making me pay extra for no commercials on those channels for 20 years. Now they can't unless they lock out DVR somehow.

Babbylonian · 20th May 2012, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Alan

...although I don't keep seeding for long because my upload speed is terrible so it's not worth it for anyone.

It's always worth it for torrent health, even if you're only offering up 10 kB/s or less. Of course, it may not be worth it for you since it's easy to saturate your upload connection, which can sometimes result in poor download performance. Still, if you can spare even some upload bandwidth, every little bit helps.

Bad Lieutenant · 20th May 2012, 12:50 AM

I don't feel guilty about using torrents because I think capitalism is moribund.

Alan · 20th May 2012, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

It's always worth it for torrent health, even if you're only offering up 10 kB/s or less. Of course, it may not be worth it for you since it's easy to saturate your upload connection, which can sometimes result in poor download performance. Still, if you can spare even some upload bandwidth, every little bit helps.

It's good to know. I tried tonight, and uploaded 108.4 kB in about 45 minutes, but then I jumped up to 5 kB/s a little bit ago. I got as high as 13 kB/s for about a second!

I just passed a megabyte total!

22nd April 2012, 08:13 AM	#121
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,931	Originally Posted by IDB87 That's not the same. Someone buys two pounds of beef - they then (through SCIENCE!) replicate the beef and give it away for free. OP takes the free two pounds of beef, and does what they will with it. How is that stealing? OP wasn't going to buy the original beef, and the person who did buy it gave a copy of the original away for free. A movie is not two pound of beef.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

22nd April 2012, 06:34 PM	#122
Babbylonian Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Oswego, OR Posts: 4,580	Originally Posted by Morrigan I wonder... we downloaded Game of Thrones when season 1 was running, but we had every intention of getting the blu-rays whenever they'd come out. I knew 100% that I would buy them, and I did. I will do the same with all future seasons. Is it still "wrong" (I'm not asking if it's illegal, I don't care one bit about that :P) to download a TV series that you know in advance you'll purchase on hard disc? I really don't think so. I got to watch the show a bit in advance, but no one was deprived of a sale. The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent, you're simultaneously uploading it (or pieces of it) to any number of other people who aren't going to be as scrupulous about paying for the content when it's available in another format. So, yeah, I'd still call it "wrong" even setting aside the illegality. On a right/wrong continuum I'd say you're in about the least wrong segment, but still...
	__________________ Where am I going to find a piece of metal? Here...in space...at this hour?

23rd April 2012, 11:52 AM	#123
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562	Originally Posted by Babbylonian The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent, you're simultaneously uploading it (or pieces of it) to any number of other people who aren't going to be as scrupulous about paying for the content when it's available in another format. So, yeah, I'd still call it "wrong" even setting aside the illegality. On a right/wrong continuum I'd say you're in about the least wrong segment, but still... I don't think it's terribly egregious. I would just think of it as 'civil disobedience against tyrannical laws. And worth repeating: http://ihnatko.com/2012/02/20/heavy-...nts-the-crown/ The world does not OWE you Season 1 of “Game Of Thrones” in the form you want it at the moment you want it at the price you want to pay for it. If it’s not available under 100% your terms, you have the free-and-clear option of not having it.
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562

23rd April 2012, 12:46 PM	#124
SumDood Muse Join Date: May 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 727	Originally Posted by Morrigan I wonder... we downloaded Game of Thrones when season 1 was running, but we had every intention of getting the blu-rays whenever they'd come out. I knew 100% that I would buy them, and I did. I will do the same with all future seasons. Is it still "wrong" (I'm not asking if it's illegal, I don't care one bit about that :P) to download a TV series that you know in advance you'll purchase on hard disc? I really don't think so. I got to watch the show a bit in advance, but no one was deprived of a sale. I know "no one was deprived of a sale" is a common excuse for downloading content one would never pay for anyway. One can either not pay for something and never consume it. Or not pay for it and consume it via illegal means. Not that its a good excuse, just one I have heard used in the past.
	__________________ All that is necessary for ignorance to triumph is for intelligent men to do nothing.

24th April 2012, 02:37 AM	#125
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,926	Originally Posted by mutile it is not illegal to download tv shows so why not Isn't it?? Originally Posted by Babbylonian The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent, you're simultaneously uploading it (or pieces of it) to any number of other people who aren't going to be as scrupulous about paying for the content when it's available in another format. Technically that isn't true because you can turn off the Upload. The trackers (and individuals) used to try and keep "track" of people who did that and shut them off or give them bad download speed, but I assume it was just too complicated. Turning off your upload won't affect you on at least 90 percent of torrents these days. ------------------ Here's an interesting angle on a related copyright issue I just saw in the Science section: Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths Originally Posted by Stomatopoda It's going to be hilarious when the collectible figure makers start complaining about piracy from these. So once replicators (3D printers) are cheap the US government will make them illegal? Making copies of DVDs is so 20th century. The future of counterfeiting is 3D Printing!
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,926	__________________ ________________________

24th April 2012, 03:20 AM	#126
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,980	Originally Posted by Mark6 Months ago I cancelled my cable subscription because it is blatantly not worth $100 a month to me. My family does not watch much TV, and what we do watch we get for free from the web, or for $8 a month from Netflix. This week for the first time since cancelling cable I wanted to watch something not legally available on web (including Netflix) -- Season 2 of "Game of Thrones". I went to HBO Go website, as some ads suggested I could buy the show there. That turned out not to be the case -- once you click on "Game of Thrones episode X", it takes you to a page which sells you complete HBO package. Which I emphatically do not want. After finding that out, I installed a Bit Torrent downloader, and downloaded first and second episodes of Season Two. I would have happily paid HBO five or six dollars per episode -- which would actually bring HBO more money than buying a DVD set after season ends. But HBO is not offering shows a la carte... so screw them. So you just decided that they didn't deserve your money. How convenient. Quote: While my argument is not reasonable with respect to houses/cars, it is reasonable with respect to anything easily divisible. Like food or data. For sure, the situation is different to a degree, but the data is still their property.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

24th April 2012, 03:24 AM	#127
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,980	Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis They are quite skippable - it just requires better firmware than the default firmware on most DVD players. (IOW the firmware has to ignore the UOP flag) Personally I don't understand why some things are unskippable on DVDs. I mean, I don't care about seeing the company's logo. I know, I just bought their product, they don't need to sell it to me. And the copyright notice ? Not reading it doesn't absolve me of any responsibility in case I copy it, and it's not like I never read it before, so I don't know why many companies still make that unskippable.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

24th April 2012, 03:25 AM	#128
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,980	Originally Posted by icerat What's annoying me, and I think virtually encourages piracy, is Facebook, or more specifically, the show producers on Facebook. 80% of Facebook users, including myself, are outside of North America. Like many people I "like" many of the TV shows I watch. What do they do? Constantly tempt and harass me with news about the next (US) episode ... "don't miss it tonight!!" etc etc with trailers and competitions and other news and info. I can wait weeks, or months, until the episode comes to my country. I can visit their website and get "this content not available in your country". Or I can download it illegally and watch it the next day. Hey, they told me not to miss it! I do agree that anti-piracy or anti-distribution tricks by those companies seem to be more likely to backfire. Not all smart people, there.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

24th April 2012, 03:30 AM	#129
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,980	Originally Posted by Donn 5. Should there not be a way that those less fortunate than me can access the same culture - at no charge? No.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

24th April 2012, 03:34 AM	#130
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,980	Originally Posted by Morrigan I wonder... we downloaded Game of Thrones when season 1 was running, but we had every intention of getting the blu-rays whenever they'd come out. I knew 100% that I would buy them, and I did. I will do the same with all future seasons. Is it still "wrong" (I'm not asking if it's illegal, I don't care one bit about that :P) to download a TV series that you know in advance you'll purchase on hard disc? I really don't think so. I got to watch the show a bit in advance, but no one was deprived of a sale. Personally I don't have a problem with such a practice. It's not technically legal but since it's zero-sum I'm not bothered by it. There's a lot about copyright laws that I feel actually loses sales.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

26th April 2012, 06:07 AM	#131
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,451	Originally Posted by Dancing David A movie is not two pound of beef. Most of them are two pounds of something.
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27th April 2012, 09:21 AM	#132
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 7,009	Originally Posted by Babbylonian The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent Ah, but I'm not. And, as someone else said, you can turn off upload anyway. Originally Posted by SumDood I know "no one was deprived of a sale" is a common excuse for downloading content one would never pay for anyway. One can either not pay for something and never consume it. Or not pay for it and consume it via illegal means. Not that its a good excuse, just one I have heard used in the past. I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote, considering I did pay for the content...
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27th April 2012, 10:11 AM	#133
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525	Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths Isn't it?? Not that I am aware of what law would I be breaking?
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525

27th April 2012, 11:30 AM	#134
Babbylonian Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Oswego, OR Posts: 4,580	Originally Posted by mutile Not that I am aware of what law would I be breaking? Downloading television shows from sources that don't have the copyright holders' express permission to distribute is a violation of copyright law ("illegal").
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27th April 2012, 04:15 PM	#135
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525	Originally Posted by Babbylonian Downloading television shows from sources that don't have the copyright holders' express permission to distribute is a violation of copyright law ("illegal"). source?
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525

28th April 2012, 05:52 AM	#136
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562	Originally Posted by mutile source? Are you waiting to say downloading is not distributing ?
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562

28th April 2012, 11:36 AM	#137
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525	Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis Are you waiting to say downloading is not distributing ? I'm waiting for evidence that downloading tv shows is illegal.
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525

28th April 2012, 03:02 PM	#138
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562	Originally Posted by mutile I'm waiting for evidence that downloading tv shows is illegal. OK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._Copyright_Act
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562

28th April 2012, 03:35 PM	#139
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525	Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis OK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._Copyright_Act can you be more specific I don't know about US law and that page doesn't mention downloading at all
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525

28th April 2012, 05:20 PM	#140
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562	Originally Posted by mutile can you be more specific I don't know about US law and that page doesn't mention downloading at all Well, from my perspective, this conversation is US. I don't know any other countries law better than US, and and I don't know US law that well It has to do with making a copy, which you are technically doing by downloading. It's probably debatable in theory, perhaps less so in practice. I also don't think I can't point to any cases where it's been used in a scenario where someone was only downloading (say usenet ... I know, never talk about usenet....)
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562

29th April 2012, 07:17 AM	#141
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,471	Originally Posted by JJM 777 In Finland I pay 20 EUR per month as a compulsory television ownership tax, which funds the two free national totally ad-free channels, plus some 10 other free ad-funded channels. I can get more channels than that totally free (no monthly tax) over the air. Finland sounds expensive! $100/month gets you hundreds of channels, including ad-free movie channels like HBO, Showtime, etc.

29th April 2012, 09:50 PM	#142
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,926	Originally Posted by WildCat I can get more channels than that totally free (no monthly tax) over the air. Finland sounds expensive! $100/month gets you hundreds of channels, including ad-free movie channels like HBO, Showtime, etc. Dish Network offers the $29.99 America's Top 120 package which you can frequently find on sale for $19.99. http://www.dish.com/entertainment/pa...ricas-top-120/ Sometimes that lasts for only a year or so depending on the contract and which re-seller you bought it from, and it goes up to $45. But if you tell them you're going to cancel they will lower it to at least $35.
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30th April 2012, 08:40 AM	#143
Aidoneus Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 161	Using BitTorrent just got harder in the UK: BBC News - The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

30th April 2012, 09:24 AM	#144
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,451	Originally Posted by Aidoneus Using BitTorrent just got harder in the UK: BBC News - The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs Womp womp woooom..
	__________________ It's guaranteed I'm overreacting.

30th April 2012, 11:59 AM	#145
Fuzzy Dunlop Scholar Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 92	Originally Posted by Aidoneus Using BitTorrent just got harder in the UK: BBC News - The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs That should make just about no difference at all. Also: Quote: "Its operators line their pockets by commercially exploiting music and other creative works without paying a penny to the people who created them. How does Pirate Bay make money? Ads?
Fuzzy Dunlop Scholar Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 92

30th April 2012, 12:19 PM	#146
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,451	Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop How does Pirate Bay make money? Ads? Donations I imagine. Any other way is disputed.
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11th May 2012, 02:04 PM	#147
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562	http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-options.shtml Game Of Thrones On Track To Be Most Pirated Show Of 2012; Pirates Still Asking HBO For Legitimate Options Much like the North, Game of Thrones cannot be held—it's too big and too wild. Matthew Inman warned HBO that they should make their content more accessible or risk driving people to piracy, but that isn't really HBO's style. Now jilocasin points us to the news that Game of Thrones is well on track to be the most torrented show of 2012, and nobody can deny that HBO's foolish subscriber-only distribution is a primary reason for that. Approximately 25-million times have people decided to pay the iron price for the show, and as the comments on Reddit attest, it's often because the gold price wasn't even an option. Others pay for the show but still pirate for the sake of occasional convenience...
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,562

19th May 2012, 06:29 AM	#148
Eligbak Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 98	Game of Thrones wouldn't be known around the world, if it wasn't for filesharing. People talk about it because they've seen and liked it. That's a lot of free hype for HBO, a fact the content distribution industry in general always forgets to mention. The "captive customer" business model may work in a particular market, but I dare say no customer honestly likes it - except for the crowd dancing around the hallucinogenic apple idol over there. Or should, if (s)he's got the notion that the market should offer a good choice, not just between necessary evils. "Necessary" and "evil" being subjective, meaning it should be fun to buy non-essential ghafla like entertainment. What's okay for political parties and shoes definitely doesn't do for having fun. Pay TV was an acceptable, ad-free compromise in the '90's, but nowadays there's so much "liberated" and ad-free content out there, I'm made to feel stupid for attempting to always play by the rules. I know no-one who hasn't at least once downloaded something just out of curiosity. You needn't be afraid of getting caught, either, as long as you're reasonably selective and conscious of the risks. I can't see the cult of the copyright growing grassroots support, rather the opposite. We may still feel that taking something for nothing is morally wrong, but it's gotten mixed up with globalization, patent-grabbing, anti-corporatism and -capitalism and the prerogatives of the economically stricken to be excused from paying for stuff they couldn't afford otherwise.
Eligbak Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 98

19th May 2012, 06:52 AM	#149
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,931	And when all products are like Syfy, that is what will happen. The deal is that the pay for model, pays for high production values. And it is not limited to HBO, AMC has done well with Mad Men and Walking Dead, with lots of commercials. However HBO uses their model quite well, we have HBO for just that reason, my wife likes True Blood and we both watch Games of Thrones. Personally I don't watch much TV, my wife watches a lot more. The issue I have is that content producers do it for one thing to make money. If they don't make money then we end up with Syfy quality material (which can be entertaining for the laugh value). The big networks are too cautious to ever make a Sopranos, Six Feet Under, True Blood or Boardwalk Empire. So while I understand the idea, content productions are the property of the producer and just like cars, the ease of committing a crime does not make it acceptable.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Last edited by Dancing David; 19th May 2012 at 07:07 AM.

19th May 2012, 09:09 AM	#150
Eligbak Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 98	US folks can probably tell at a glance how many of the TV series on this list) were produced by HBO, or rather HBO exclusives. Game of Thrones and The Wire, and Rome probably, too? (I never saw that) I'm no big series watcher; I remember Waking the Dead (UK) and ReGenesis (Canadian TV). Quality content tends to come from the UK imv.
Eligbak Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 98	Last edited by Eligbak; 19th May 2012 at 09:15 AM.

19th May 2012, 04:48 PM	#151
Corsair 115 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 8,684	Originally Posted by Eligbak Game of Thrones wouldn't be known around the world, if it wasn't for filesharing. People talk about it because they've seen and liked it. That's a lot of free hype for HBO, a fact the content distribution industry in general always forgets to mention. But unless that "free hype" as you put it translates into revenue in some manner at some point, the free hype isn't helping HBO.
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19th May 2012, 04:52 PM	#152
wackyvorlon Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sarnia, ON, Canada Posts: 333	Originally Posted by Corsair 115 But unless that "free hype" as you put it translates into revenue in some manner at some point, the free hype isn't helping HBO. Mind, quantifying any monetary benefit from said hype is an impossibility. We can only speak qualitatively. You cannot know if it helped or not.
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19th May 2012, 10:10 PM	#153
Corsair 115 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 8,684	Originally Posted by wackyvorlon Mind, quantifying any monetary benefit from said hype is an impossibility. I don't think it's impossible. It would, however, likely require some comprehensive market research on the part of HBO to find out exactly what led a customer to purchase an HBO product, i.e. something along the lines of a "How did you hear about our product/service?" type of question one can often find from companies requesting customer feedback.
	__________________ "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."

19th May 2012, 10:28 PM	#154
Sideroxylon Gavagai! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Turkey Posts: 10,838	I watch all my "stolen" TV shows on YouTube.
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19th May 2012, 10:34 PM	#155
wackyvorlon Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sarnia, ON, Canada Posts: 333	Originally Posted by Corsair 115 I don't think it's impossible. It would, however, likely require some comprehensive market research on the part of HBO to find out exactly what led a customer to purchase an HBO product, i.e. something along the lines of a "How did you hear about our product/service?" type of question one can often find from companies requesting customer feedback. That requires people self-reporting, though. There's no guarantee they will remember it correctly, or even tell the truth.
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