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Old 22nd April 2012, 08:13 AM   #121
Dancing David
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Originally Posted by IDB87 View Post
That's not the same.

Someone buys two pounds of beef - they then (through SCIENCE!) replicate the beef and give it away for free. OP takes the free two pounds of beef, and does what they will with it.

How is that stealing? OP wasn't going to buy the original beef, and the person who did buy it gave a copy of the original away for free.
A movie is not two pound of beef.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 06:34 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
I wonder... we downloaded Game of Thrones when season 1 was running, but we had every intention of getting the blu-rays whenever they'd come out. I knew 100% that I would buy them, and I did. I will do the same with all future seasons.

Is it still "wrong" (I'm not asking if it's illegal, I don't care one bit about that :P) to download a TV series that you know in advance you'll purchase on hard disc? I really don't think so. I got to watch the show a bit in advance, but no one was deprived of a sale.
The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent, you're simultaneously uploading it (or pieces of it) to any number of other people who aren't going to be as scrupulous about paying for the content when it's available in another format.

So, yeah, I'd still call it "wrong" even setting aside the illegality. On a right/wrong continuum I'd say you're in about the least wrong segment, but still...
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Old 23rd April 2012, 11:52 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent, you're simultaneously uploading it (or pieces of it) to any number of other people who aren't going to be as scrupulous about paying for the content when it's available in another format.

So, yeah, I'd still call it "wrong" even setting aside the illegality. On a right/wrong continuum I'd say you're in about the least wrong segment, but still...
I don't think it's terribly egregious. I would just think of it as 'civil disobedience against tyrannical laws.

And worth repeating:
http://ihnatko.com/2012/02/20/heavy-...nts-the-crown/

The world does not OWE you Season 1 of “Game Of Thrones” in the form you want it at the moment you want it at the price you want to pay for it. If it’s not available under 100% your terms, you have the free-and-clear option of not having it.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 12:46 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
I wonder... we downloaded Game of Thrones when season 1 was running, but we had every intention of getting the blu-rays whenever they'd come out. I knew 100% that I would buy them, and I did. I will do the same with all future seasons.

Is it still "wrong" (I'm not asking if it's illegal, I don't care one bit about that :P) to download a TV series that you know in advance you'll purchase on hard disc? I really don't think so. I got to watch the show a bit in advance, but no one was deprived of a sale.
I know "no one was deprived of a sale" is a common excuse for downloading content one would never pay for anyway. One can either not pay for something and never consume it. Or not pay for it and consume it via illegal means.

Not that its a good excuse, just one I have heard used in the past.
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Old 24th April 2012, 02:37 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
it is not illegal to download tv shows so why not
Isn't it??

Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent, you're simultaneously uploading it (or pieces of it) to any number of other people who aren't going to be as scrupulous about paying for the content when it's available in another format.
Technically that isn't true because you can turn off the Upload.

The trackers (and individuals) used to try and keep "track" of people who did that and shut them off or give them bad download speed, but I assume it was just too complicated. Turning off your upload won't affect you on at least 90 percent of torrents these days.


------------------


Here's an interesting angle on a related copyright issue I just saw in the Science section:

Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
Originally Posted by Stomatopoda View Post
It's going to be hilarious when the collectible figure makers start complaining about piracy from these.
So once replicators (3D printers) are cheap the US government will make them illegal?
Making copies of DVDs is so 20th century. The future of counterfeiting is 3D Printing!
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Old 24th April 2012, 03:20 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Mark6 View Post
Months ago I cancelled my cable subscription because it is blatantly not worth $100 a month to me. My family does not watch much TV, and what we do watch we get for free from the web, or for $8 a month from Netflix. This week for the first time since cancelling cable I wanted to watch something not legally available on web (including Netflix) -- Season 2 of "Game of Thrones". I went to HBO Go website, as some ads suggested I could buy the show there. That turned out not to be the case -- once you click on "Game of Thrones episode X", it takes you to a page which sells you complete HBO package. Which I emphatically do not want.

After finding that out, I installed a Bit Torrent downloader, and downloaded first and second episodes of Season Two. I would have happily paid HBO five or six dollars per episode -- which would actually bring HBO more money than buying a DVD set after season ends. But HBO is not offering shows a la carte... so screw them.
So you just decided that they didn't deserve your money. How convenient.

Quote:
While my argument is not reasonable with respect to houses/cars, it is reasonable with respect to anything easily divisible. Like food or data.
For sure, the situation is different to a degree, but the data is still their property.
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Old 24th April 2012, 03:24 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
They are quite skippable - it just requires better firmware than the default firmware on most DVD players.

(IOW the firmware has to ignore the UOP flag)
Personally I don't understand why some things are unskippable on DVDs. I mean, I don't care about seeing the company's logo. I know, I just bought their product, they don't need to sell it to me. And the copyright notice ? Not reading it doesn't absolve me of any responsibility in case I copy it, and it's not like I never read it before, so I don't know why many companies still make that unskippable.
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Old 24th April 2012, 03:25 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
What's annoying me, and I think virtually encourages piracy, is Facebook, or more specifically, the show producers on Facebook.

80% of Facebook users, including myself, are outside of North America. Like many people I "like" many of the TV shows I watch.

What do they do? Constantly tempt and harass me with news about the next (US) episode ... "don't miss it tonight!!" etc etc with trailers and competitions and other news and info.

I can wait weeks, or months, until the episode comes to my country. I can visit their website and get "this content not available in your country".

Or I can download it illegally and watch it the next day.

Hey, they told me not to miss it!
I do agree that anti-piracy or anti-distribution tricks by those companies seem to be more likely to backfire. Not all smart people, there.
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Old 24th April 2012, 03:30 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
5. Should there not be a way that those less fortunate than me can access the same culture - at no charge?
No.
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Old 24th April 2012, 03:34 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
I wonder... we downloaded Game of Thrones when season 1 was running, but we had every intention of getting the blu-rays whenever they'd come out. I knew 100% that I would buy them, and I did. I will do the same with all future seasons.

Is it still "wrong" (I'm not asking if it's illegal, I don't care one bit about that :P) to download a TV series that you know in advance you'll purchase on hard disc? I really don't think so. I got to watch the show a bit in advance, but no one was deprived of a sale.
Personally I don't have a problem with such a practice. It's not technically legal but since it's zero-sum I'm not bothered by it.

There's a lot about copyright laws that I feel actually loses sales.
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Old 26th April 2012, 06:07 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
A movie is not two pound of beef.
Most of them are two pounds of something.
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Old 27th April 2012, 09:21 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The problem as I see it is that if you're downloading via Bit Torrent
Ah, but I'm not.
And, as someone else said, you can turn off upload anyway.

Originally Posted by SumDood View Post
I know "no one was deprived of a sale" is a common excuse for downloading content one would never pay for anyway. One can either not pay for something and never consume it. Or not pay for it and consume it via illegal means.

Not that its a good excuse, just one I have heard used in the past.
I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote, considering I did pay for the content...
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Old 27th April 2012, 10:11 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
Isn't it??
Not that I am aware of what law would I be breaking?
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Old 27th April 2012, 11:30 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
Not that I am aware of what law would I be breaking?
Downloading television shows from sources that don't have the copyright holders' express permission to distribute is a violation of copyright law ("illegal").
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Old 27th April 2012, 04:15 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Downloading television shows from sources that don't have the copyright holders' express permission to distribute is a violation of copyright law ("illegal").
source?
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Old 28th April 2012, 05:52 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
source?
Are you waiting to say downloading is not distributing ?
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Old 28th April 2012, 11:36 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Are you waiting to say downloading is not distributing ?
I'm waiting for evidence that downloading tv shows is illegal.
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Old 28th April 2012, 03:02 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
I'm waiting for evidence that downloading tv shows is illegal.
OK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._Copyright_Act
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Old 28th April 2012, 03:35 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
can you be more specific I don't know about US law and that page doesn't mention downloading at all
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Old 28th April 2012, 05:20 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
can you be more specific I don't know about US law and that page doesn't mention downloading at all
Well, from my perspective, this conversation is US. I don't know any other countries law better than US, and and I don't know US law that well

It has to do with making a copy, which you are technically doing by downloading. It's probably debatable in theory, perhaps less so in practice. I also don't think I can't point to any cases where it's been used in a scenario where someone was only downloading (say usenet ... I know, never talk about usenet....)
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Old 29th April 2012, 07:17 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
In Finland I pay 20 EUR per month as a compulsory television ownership tax, which funds the two free national totally ad-free channels, plus some 10 other free ad-funded channels.
I can get more channels than that totally free (no monthly tax) over the air. Finland sounds expensive!

$100/month gets you hundreds of channels, including ad-free movie channels like HBO, Showtime, etc.
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Old 29th April 2012, 09:50 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
I can get more channels than that totally free (no monthly tax) over the air. Finland sounds expensive!

$100/month gets you hundreds of channels, including ad-free movie channels like HBO, Showtime, etc.
Dish Network offers the $29.99 America's Top 120 package which you can frequently find on sale for $19.99.

http://www.dish.com/entertainment/pa...ricas-top-120/

Sometimes that lasts for only a year or so depending on the contract and which re-seller you bought it from, and it goes up to $45. But if you tell them you're going to cancel they will lower it to at least $35.
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Old 30th April 2012, 08:40 AM   #143
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Using BitTorrent just got harder in the UK: BBC News - The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs
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Old 30th April 2012, 09:24 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Aidoneus View Post
Using BitTorrent just got harder in the UK: BBC News - The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs
Womp womp woooom..
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Old 30th April 2012, 11:59 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Aidoneus View Post
Using BitTorrent just got harder in the UK: BBC News - The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs
That should make just about no difference at all. Also:

Quote:
"Its operators line their pockets by commercially exploiting music and other creative works without paying a penny to the people who created them.
How does Pirate Bay make money? Ads?
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Old 30th April 2012, 12:19 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop View Post


How does Pirate Bay make money? Ads?
Donations I imagine. Any other way is disputed.
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Old 11th May 2012, 02:04 PM   #147
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http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-options.shtml

Game Of Thrones On Track To Be Most Pirated Show Of 2012; Pirates Still Asking HBO For Legitimate Options

Much like the North, Game of Thrones cannot be held—it's too big and too wild. Matthew Inman warned HBO that they should make their content more accessible or risk driving people to piracy, but that isn't really HBO's style. Now jilocasin points us to the news that Game of Thrones is well on track to be the most torrented show of 2012, and nobody can deny that HBO's foolish subscriber-only distribution is a primary reason for that. Approximately 25-million times have people decided to pay the iron price for the show, and as the comments on Reddit attest, it's often because the gold price wasn't even an option. Others pay for the show but still pirate for the sake of occasional convenience...
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Old 19th May 2012, 06:29 AM   #148
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Game of Thrones wouldn't be known around the world, if it wasn't for filesharing. People talk about it because they've seen and liked it. That's a lot of free hype for HBO, a fact the content distribution industry in general always forgets to mention.

The "captive customer" business model may work in a particular market, but I dare say no customer honestly likes it - except for the crowd dancing around the hallucinogenic apple idol over there. Or should, if (s)he's got the notion that the market should offer a good choice, not just between necessary evils. "Necessary" and "evil" being subjective, meaning it should be fun to buy non-essential ghafla like entertainment. What's okay for political parties and shoes definitely doesn't do for having fun.

Pay TV was an acceptable, ad-free compromise in the '90's, but nowadays there's so much "liberated" and ad-free content out there, I'm made to feel stupid for attempting to always play by the rules. I know no-one who hasn't at least once downloaded something just out of curiosity. You needn't be afraid of getting caught, either, as long as you're reasonably selective and conscious of the risks.

I can't see the cult of the copyright growing grassroots support, rather the opposite. We may still feel that taking something for nothing is morally wrong, but it's gotten mixed up with globalization, patent-grabbing, anti-corporatism and -capitalism and the prerogatives of the economically stricken to be excused from paying for stuff they couldn't afford otherwise.
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Old 19th May 2012, 06:52 AM   #149
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And when all products are like Syfy, that is what will happen. The deal is that the pay for model, pays for high production values. And it is not limited to HBO, AMC has done well with Mad Men and Walking Dead, with lots of commercials.

However HBO uses their model quite well, we have HBO for just that reason, my wife likes True Blood and we both watch Games of Thrones. Personally I don't watch much TV, my wife watches a lot more.

The issue I have is that content producers do it for one thing to make money. If they don't make money then we end up with Syfy quality material (which can be entertaining for the laugh value). The big networks are too cautious to ever make a Sopranos, Six Feet Under, True Blood or Boardwalk Empire.

So while I understand the idea, content productions are the property of the producer and just like cars, the ease of committing a crime does not make it acceptable.
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Old 19th May 2012, 09:09 AM   #150
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US folks can probably tell at a glance how many of the TV series on this list) were produced by HBO, or rather HBO exclusives. Game of Thrones and The Wire, and Rome probably, too? (I never saw that)

I'm no big series watcher; I remember Waking the Dead (UK) and ReGenesis (Canadian TV). Quality content tends to come from the UK imv.

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Old 19th May 2012, 04:48 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Eligbak View Post
Game of Thrones wouldn't be known around the world, if it wasn't for filesharing. People talk about it because they've seen and liked it. That's a lot of free hype for HBO, a fact the content distribution industry in general always forgets to mention.

But unless that "free hype" as you put it translates into revenue in some manner at some point, the free hype isn't helping HBO.
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Old 19th May 2012, 04:52 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
But unless that "free hype" as you put it translates into revenue in some manner at some point, the free hype isn't helping HBO.
Mind, quantifying any monetary benefit from said hype is an impossibility. We can only speak qualitatively. You cannot know if it helped or not.
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Old 19th May 2012, 10:10 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by wackyvorlon View Post
Mind, quantifying any monetary benefit from said hype is an impossibility.

I don't think it's impossible. It would, however, likely require some comprehensive market research on the part of HBO to find out exactly what led a customer to purchase an HBO product, i.e. something along the lines of a "How did you hear about our product/service?" type of question one can often find from companies requesting customer feedback.
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Old 19th May 2012, 10:28 PM   #154
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I watch all my "stolen" TV shows on YouTube.
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Old 19th May 2012, 10:34 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
I don't think it's impossible. It would, however, likely require some comprehensive market research on the part of HBO to find out exactly what led a customer to purchase an HBO product, i.e. something along the lines of a "How did you hear about our product/service?" type of question one can often find from companies requesting customer feedback.
That requires people self-reporting, though. There's no guarantee they will remember it correctly, or even tell the truth.
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Old 19th May 2012, 10:55 PM   #156
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I don't feel guilty about using BitTorrent because I use it to download linux distros, using the torrent file from their site. BitTorrent can be used for legal purposes.

...although I don't keep seeding for long because my upload speed is terrible so it's not worth it for anyone.

I do stream some shows that won't be released where I live for a long time, and plan on buying the DVD/Blu-ray, though.
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Old 19th May 2012, 11:21 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Eligbak View Post
Pay TV was an acceptable, ad-free compromise in the '90's, but nowadays there's so much "liberated" and ad-free content out there, I'm made to feel stupid for attempting to always play by the rules.
This reminds me of how confused I was in the early 80s that pay-cable TV channels still had commercials. How much more than free do I have to pay to not have commercials, I said. Apparently, as with HBO, not that much. Why didn't we have that option with the other cable TV channels though.

At least 20 years later DVR made that an obsolete issue.

They missed out on making me pay extra for no commercials on those channels for 20 years. Now they can't unless they lock out DVR somehow.
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Old 20th May 2012, 12:44 AM   #158
Babbylonian
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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
...although I don't keep seeding for long because my upload speed is terrible so it's not worth it for anyone.
It's always worth it for torrent health, even if you're only offering up 10 kB/s or less. Of course, it may not be worth it for you since it's easy to saturate your upload connection, which can sometimes result in poor download performance. Still, if you can spare even some upload bandwidth, every little bit helps.
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Old 20th May 2012, 12:50 AM   #159
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I don't feel guilty about using torrents because I think capitalism is moribund.
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Old 20th May 2012, 01:35 AM   #160
Alan
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It's always worth it for torrent health, even if you're only offering up 10 kB/s or less. Of course, it may not be worth it for you since it's easy to saturate your upload connection, which can sometimes result in poor download performance. Still, if you can spare even some upload bandwidth, every little bit helps.
It's good to know. I tried tonight, and uploaded 108.4 kB in about 45 minutes, but then I jumped up to 5 kB/s a little bit ago. I got as high as 13 kB/s for about a second!

I just passed a megabyte total!
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