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Tags Elizabeth Warren , lying charges , race issues , racial categorization

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Old 1st May 2012, 03:36 PM   #1
applecorped
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Elizabeth Warren - 1/32nd Cherokee? How?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ses-questions/

"Elizabeth Warren is under fire for reports she claimed status as a minority lawyer based on a far-back blood connection to the Cherokee line. The Boston Globe reported that the Democratic candidate challenger to Scott Brown in the Senate race in Massachusetts self-identified as a minority from 1986 to 1995, though she has no recent Native American family.
Genealogist at the New England Historic Genealogical Society Chris Child set out to hunt down Warren’s ancestry last Thursday. In less than a week, he discovered documents citing an 1894 marriage record that lists Warren’s great-great-great grandmother, O. C. Sarah Smith as Cherokee, meaning that Warren is 1/32nd Native American."


Ooops.
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Old 1st May 2012, 03:44 PM   #2
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Pretindian.
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Old 1st May 2012, 03:52 PM   #3
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I'll be damned. After digging and digging, they finally got something on her. Way to go, muckrakers! You successfully raked some muck.
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Old 1st May 2012, 03:55 PM   #4
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... Seriously, what? That's news?
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Old 1st May 2012, 03:58 PM   #5
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"Politician stopped claiming to be part Indian almost twenty years ago, even though we found out that she actually has part-Indian ancestry! Stop the presses!!"

Sheesh...
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Old 1st May 2012, 04:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
"Politician stopped claiming to be part Indian almost twenty years ago, even though we found out that she actually has part-Indian ancestry! Stop the presses!!"

Sheesh...
Well, the point is she used her Native American ancestry as a sop to Harvard students' diversity concerns. Given that she has 97% European (i.e. non-diverse) ancestry it seems like a pretty cynical move to me, not to mention insulting to actual Cherokees. But maybe she can explain for herself, and I'd be more than happy to hear her out.
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Old 1st May 2012, 04:57 PM   #7
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My sons qualify for Indian Education even though they are only 1/128th Native American. Go figure.
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Old 1st May 2012, 05:03 PM   #8
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So isn't this a bad action of the part of Harvard, not Warren?

Quote:
The story kicked off Friday when the Boston Herald reported on an article that ran in the Harvard Crimson in 1996 about students’ concerns regarding a lack of diversity among the school’s faculty. In the story, Warren, who serves as the Leo Gottlieb Professor of Law at Harvard’s Law School, was cited as Native American. Warren’s identification as Native American pre-dates her time at Harvard.
Law School directories from the Association of American Law Schools from 1986-1995 list Warren as a minority law professor. During this time Warren taught at the University of Texas School of Law and the University of Pennsylvania Law School.
Though Warren reportedly said last week that she was proud of her heritage, she makes no mention of her ancestry during a profile of her childhood made by the Boston Globe. The reporter who wrote that story said he did not remember her mentioning anything about her Native American roots. Though he said in an email it was possible that he had forgotten, he thought it was “unlikely that she brought it up.”
So technically, she really is part Cherokee. And so Harvard, which had a crappy record on diversity (see Bell, Derrick) tried to wave away concerns by pointing to Warren. But it's not like she applied to college under a minority scholarship or anything like that, did she?

Maybe I'm missing the issue?
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Old 1st May 2012, 05:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
So isn't this a bad action of the part of Harvard, not Warren?
I agree with you. This incident makes Harvard look a lot worse than Warren.
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Old 1st May 2012, 05:07 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson View Post
My sons qualify for Indian Education even though they are only 1/128th Native American. Go figure.
I assume "Hey, I'm a minority!" is qualified somewhere with one of various legal definitions, racist or otherwise.
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Old 1st May 2012, 05:07 PM   #11
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This will surely end in a trail of tears.
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Old 1st May 2012, 05:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
This will surely end in a trail of tears.
Tricky! Too soon!
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Old 1st May 2012, 05:13 PM   #13
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Gotta work on my timing.
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Old 1st May 2012, 05:20 PM   #14
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The one-drop rule lives on!

ETA: At least she can say she's more Native American than Ward Churchill.
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Old 1st May 2012, 05:25 PM   #15
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These discussions can end up quite ugly, but right now this looks fairly benign. Lots of possibilities and speculation, but no smoking gun. Different federally recognised tribes have different standards, and blood proportion might be only part of the membership qualification.

Personally, I get annoyed when people claim to be Italian or Irish when they have a longer American heritage than I do. But these discussions aren't really rational .

Besides, true Socialists like Warren know that Nations are illusory, bourgeoisie tools of oppression for dividing the proletariat!
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Old 1st May 2012, 05:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson View Post
My sons qualify for Indian Education even though they are only 1/128th Native American. Go figure.
The BIA, who administers Indian Education, requires membership in a tribe, not distant partial ancestry.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/32.2

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/32

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Old 1st May 2012, 09:15 PM   #17
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If George Zimmerman's a cracker then Elizabeth Warren can be an American Indian. What's next? Benjamin Jealous is black?
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Old 1st May 2012, 09:27 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ravdin View Post
Given that she has 97% European (i.e. non-diverse) ancestry
How is European not diverse? That includes everyone from the celts to the slavs.
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Old 1st May 2012, 09:37 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
How is European not diverse? That includes everyone from the celts to the slavs.
Whoops! Let me fix it.

<sarcasm>Given that she has 97% European (i.e. non-diverse) ancestry</sarcasm>

I agree, it's completely ridiculous to assume that all people of European descent are a monolithic, non-diverse bunch. That's academia for you!
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Old 1st May 2012, 09:50 PM   #20
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I've mentioned before that I'm (probably) part Seneca. I mentioned this once in college at one of those machines that takes your face and makes it another race when the one that rendered me as a Native American, and it looked almost exactly like me with a tan and brown eyes. A friend of a friend was incredulous and seemed almost offended that I'd mention it without being sure. Now if my grandmother was correct (and there is some evidence that she was), I'm either 6.25% or 12.5%. This person said I should only claim that which I was both sure of and was the largest portion of and also it couldn't be native American, because of my light hair and blue eyes. By her criteria, I'm Italian...at 12.5%.

Race is weird and complex.
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Old 1st May 2012, 09:51 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ravdin View Post
Whoops! Let me fix it.

<sarcasm>Given that she has 97% European (i.e. non-diverse) ancestry</sarcasm>

I agree, it's completely ridiculous to assume that all people of European descent are a monolithic, non-diverse bunch. That's academia for you!
I don't think you can blame "academia" for our silly cultural views on race; they've never been particularly inspired (e.g. "one drop of blood", Black vs African conflation, all people to the South are Hispanic or Latino).
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Old 1st May 2012, 10:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
I don't think you can blame "academia" for our silly cultural views on race; they've never been particularly inspired (e.g. "one drop of blood", Black vs African conflation, all people to the South are Hispanic or Latino).
Perhaps not, but I can certainly blame academia for Harvard's silly views on race.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 12:07 AM   #23
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The conservative blogs are calling her Fauxcahotas. Her latest excuse? She thought she might get invited to a luncheon with other 1/32nd Cherokees. But apparently the luncheon offers never came and so she took herself off the list.

Then she tries the indignant trick:

Quote:
"The only one as I understand it who’s raising any question about whether or not I was qualified for my job is Scott Brown and I think I am qualified and frankly I’m a little shocked to hear anybody raise a question about whether or not I’m qualified to hold a job teaching,” she said, pushing to put Brown on defense. “What does he think it takes for a woman to be qualified?”
But as Ann Althouse (a law school prof at Wisconsin) notes:

Quote:
This is nonresponsive to the issue, an attempt to distract. The question is not whether she was qualified. The question is whether she tried to obtain or did obtain a special advantage, with race taken as a plus factor. In affirmative action, the concern is not whether those who are hired are qualified. It's whether the most meritorious candidate received the offer and whether race should boost one person over the next person.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 05:06 AM   #24
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So you're wondering how Warren is 1/32nd Cherokee, and then posting a link to an article claiming she's 1/32nd Cherokee because her great-great-great grandmother was?

Uhm, congratulations on answering your own question?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 05:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by ravdin View Post
Perhaps not, but I can certainly blame academia for Harvard's silly views on race.
Last I checked, Harvard took enough federal money to fall under the government's rules on race. People can self report as black, Hispanic, and so on, based on distant ancestry.
But claiming Indian status for set asides (especially Cherokee) requires proof of tribal membership.

Ask Ward Churchill.

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Old 3rd May 2012, 06:24 AM   #26
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Not sure about this here in the land of Connecticut Casinos 1/32 mans you are an Indian?
Did she claim to be more than that.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 06:30 AM   #27
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I would hope if my great-great-great grandmother was somehow alive and knew I was her great-great-great grandson she would want for me to benefit from whatever is available based upon her ancestry.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 07:01 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Halfcentaur View Post
I would hope if my great-great-great grandmother was somehow alive and knew I was her great-great-great grandson she would want for me to benefit from whatever is available based upon her ancestry.
All of my great-great-great grandmothers would likely try to hang me for witchcraft for using devil magic to communicate through the air with sorcerous machines like this computer. Or they might be okay with that, but object to the fact that I use said sorcerous machines to look at pictures of butts. Either way, I'm not certain I really care what they'd think. Thanks for the genetic material, ladies, but stay out of my life. And for a few of you, stay out of the Yemassee War. What's that? Too late? Sorry, didn't mean to bring it up. What? Yes, I'll be good. No, I won't. No. Okay. Yes, grandma. Yes. Okay. You, too. What? Yes. Mmm hmmm. Well, that's sad. Sorry about your leg. What? Yes. Okay. Mmm hmmm. Look, grandma, I got to go. Okay. Mmmhmmm. You, too. Okay, I got to-- what? No. Yes. Mmm hmmm. Okay, bye. Bye! BYE, grandma! Love you! She was totally still talking when I hung up.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 08:31 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The conservative blogs are calling her Fauxcahotas. Her latest excuse? She thought she might get invited to a luncheon with other 1/32nd Cherokees. But apparently the luncheon offers never came and so she took herself off the list.

Then she tries the indignant trick:



But as Ann Althouse (a law school prof at Wisconsin) notes:
Wait, you're taking this idiocy seriously?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 09:02 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Wait, you're taking this idiocy seriously?
During the 1980s and 1990s, law schools were under continual pressure to show "diversity" in their faculty. The way I see it, there are two explanations for Warren listing her minor "minority" status:

1. The schools pushed for her to mention it, because she gave them a two-fer: a female and a Native American.

2. Warren herself pushed for it, because it made her more attractive to the elite colleges, so that she could move up to Harvard.

However, Warren dropped mention of it after getting hired by Harvard. It seems pretty obvious that explanation #1 would have still applied, but #2 ceased to be important, as she had arrived at the pinnacle of her profession.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 09:09 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Wait, you're taking this idiocy seriously?
What idiocy? The fact that Warren lied to make herself a more attractive candidate?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 10:17 AM   #32
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the Cherokee Nation will accept anyone descended from someone on the Dawes Rolls (same situation as why Israel will accept anyone the Nazis would kill) but to be Cherokee you have to be part of the community. I've got ancestry, but I have no connections to the Cherokee community, so I'm not Cherokee.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 11:05 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
What idiocy? The fact that Warren lied to make herself a more attractive candidate?
Wait, where did she lie and for what position was she running in the nineties?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 11:12 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
What idiocy? The fact that Warren lied to make herself a more attractive candidate?
Right, where did she lie? In that original article I didn't see any of this supposed lying. Can you cite some evidence?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 11:38 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Right, where did she lie? In that original article I didn't see any of this supposed lying. Can you cite some evidence?
She may not have lied. But even if I take what she says at face value, what a load of phony bs. (Unfortunately. I very much want her to win.)
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Old 3rd May 2012, 11:42 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
She may not have lied. But even if I take what she says at face value, what a load of phony bs. (Unfortunately. I very much want her to win.)
Phony how? If I have 1/32 Cherokee ancestry, I'm not allowed to say so? I know lots of people who are part Native American and they all mention it. It's a very interesting thing to most people. Did she use this fact to get something she wasn't entitled to? Is there anyone claiming that Elizabeth Warren isn't freaking brilliant and deserves whatever success she's had? Did she beat out some deserving white guy who deserved her slot more, but because she was 1/32 Cherokee they went with the squaw?

Aside from her checking a box...which was true!...what is she alleged to have done wrong?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 11:54 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
How is European not diverse? That includes everyone from the celts to the slavs.
Pfft! More like the swells to the chavs.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 12:32 PM   #38
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Elizabeth Warren makes this guy cry:
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Old 3rd May 2012, 01:14 PM   #39
jnelso99
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Elizabeth Warren makes this guy cry:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Dude was Italian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Eyes_Cody
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Old 3rd May 2012, 01:51 PM   #40
Brainster
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Originally Posted by jnelso99 View Post
Well, then she makes him smile.
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