Do we really want the Olympics?

[Lamuella]

I don't have a problem with people meeting up to see who can run fastest or play tennis the best. I just don't see why I have to be involved.

[wobs]

Sport on TV can be generalised thus: football football football football football football football football football football football football football cricket football football football football snooker football football football football F1.

At least in the UK.

Every 4 years we get a lots of minority sports exposed to billions of people, and personally I enjoyed the weightlifting. As someone who doesn't care about footie, it is a welcome change. Maybe even bring poodle-clipping into the real Olympics and out of the world of April fools, just for a laugh.

[Damien Evans]

Originally Posted by wobs

Sport on TV can be generalised thus: football football football football football football football football football football football football football cricket football football football football snooker football football football football F1.

At least in the UK.

Every 4 years we get a lots of minority sports exposed to billions of people, and personally I enjoyed the weightlifting. As someone who doesn't care about footie, it is a welcome change. Maybe even bring poodle-clipping into the real Olympics and out of the world of April fools, just for a laugh.

Bring Lawn Bowls in. It's good fun at the Commonwealths, so why not the Olympics as well?

[Multivac]

Yes, I'm looking forward to the Olympics.

[JJM 777]

Originally Posted by wobs

Sport on TV can be generalised thus: football football football football football football football football football football football football football cricket football football football football snooker football football football football F1.

At least in the UK.

... in TV and in newspapers. Did you forget some rugby?

USA appears to be more diverse, it has several strongly reported sports: NHL, NBA, MLB, PGA, MLS.

[wobs]

Originally Posted by JJM 777

... in TV and in newspapers. Did you forget some rugby?

How could I forget rugby! Especially around here with two RL teams.

Quote:

USA appears to be more diverse, it has several strongly reported sports: NHL, NBA, MLB, PGA, MLS.

The USA does seem to be rich in TLA's

[Cuddles]

Originally Posted by Johnny Brant

9.3 billion quid would go a long way to feeding starving Africans..

No it wouldn't. The UK already spends more than that on foreign aid every year. Adding that little bit extra over the course of a decade really wouldn't make much difference. And that's just for the problems which could be solved by simply throwing money at them, which is very few of them.

Of course, the even bigger problem is that the money would never have been used to feed starving Africans* anyway. When I was little and refused to finish my food, my mother always used to admonish me that I shouldn't waste it because there were starving children in Ethiopia who could use it. My answer was of course "They can have it.". Of course, they couldn't. This was half-eaten food already going cold and stale on my plate. Even if I never finished it, it was never going to be useful to anyone else, let alone someone on a different continent. Sure, those starving Ethiopian children needed food, but whether I finished my plate or not was completely irrelevant to that.

It's exactly the same here. This money was never going to be used for foreign aid. There are already complaints that the UK budget for foreign aid is too high, especially given recent economic issues. If the Olympics hadn't come here, that budget certainly wouldn't have been increased. This money would simply have gone to funding other national interests. The NHS needs more money, science budgets have been cut, councils don't have enough money to repair roads, and so on.

So sure, there are plenty of things that this money could have been spent on. Many of them could easily be argued to be more useful than the Olympics, although obviously not everyone will agree. But "Won't someone please think of the children starving Africans!" just doesn't cut it.


* Why is it always starving Africans in these silly emotional appeals anyway? Around 70% of malnourished children live in Asia.

[sackett]

Re junk sports: I disagree about eliminating them. Let's have more, and livlier!

Why must the javelin just be about distance? Accuracy should count -- decisively, if we make spear-chucking into a two-team event!

And what about my old faves, knife- and tomahawk-throwing? Imagine a Mohawk Run with real Mohawks!

[JihadJane]

Another way of transferring wealth from the many to the few?

'Want to cleanse your city of its poor? Host the Olympics

Hosting the Olympics is often presented to us as an ideologically neutral opportunity to boost tourism and sports. In a thought-provoking piece Ceasefire Magazine's Ashok Kumar outlines a clear and consistent, yet barely noticed, pattern of the Games being used to fundamentally restructure the host City to the purposeful exclusion of its working class and ethnic minority residents.'

...

"London 2012, originally expected to cost £2.4bn, is now projected at £24bn, with contracts going to some of the world’s most egregious employers and global human rights violators. Some on the left have been critical of the massive transfer from public to private at a time of austerity. The London overspend has been portrayed by officials as a one-off, but a glance at the history of the Olympics shows that underestimating the cost is a consistent part of the Olympic experience."

Loadsa money!

[Tatyana]

Originally Posted by Mark6

A bit off-topic:

Not long ago I read a fairly convincing study which claims that today's top Olympic athletes have reached the limits of what can be done with human body just through exercise and diet. Any future records will be measured in hundredths, and then (increasinly infrequent) thousandths of seconds/inches.

Unless we accept the use of performance-enhancing drugs and genetic engineering.

I think we might have to accept having assisted athletes (those that take performance enhancing drugs-PEDs) and 'naturals' (those that follow WADA guidelines) and having two separate events (although that still leads to some assisted athletes cheating to win against the naturals).

There are some genetic freaks that just exceed in some events, but I think most people would be very surprised at how many athletes are actually taking some sort of PED.

It is almost like the biological warfare adaptation between plants and insects, the black market chemists develop some new drug, for example 'the clear' (called clear as you wouldn't test postive on a urine steroid drug screen), and WADA keeps coming up with new and innovative ways to find drug cheats.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clear

A lot of blood and urine samples are saved and tested again when a new method is developed, for example, a recent analytical test was developed for EPO, and quite a number of athletes tested positive for it, I think Lance Armstrong was one of these. Of course, he contested it as the samples were old, and in most of these cases, the drug conviction is often thrown out on a technicality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...cases_in_sport

There are a few interesting sources about drugs in sports, for example 'Steroid Nation' http://www.amazon.com/Steroid-Nation.../dp/B003A02YNS, the entertainment documentary 'Bigger, Stronger Faster' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigger,_Stronger,_Faster*.

It is difficult to get really good epidemiological data or many studies on performance enhancing drugs as the use of them is illegal and some of the penalties in the US are quite draconian (related to the war on drugs).

When studies are performed (more often in Europe), the issue is that researchers can't give the participants steroids for 'recreational use', so the participants are often taking different drugs, more than one drug and taking the drugs for varying amounts of time.

I do think there is probably less doping in the Olympics than in professional sports, but it is really shocking at how ubiquitous it is.

[Seismosaurus]

Originally Posted by Mark6

Any future records will be measured in hundredths, and then (increasinly infrequent) thousandths of seconds/inches.

I believe that there has been serious consideration to moving sprint times to 1/1000s of a second, as measuring in 1/100s has resulted in dead heats more than once. According to wiki the equipment they use already measures to better than that accuracy, so it would be very simple to make the change.

[tomwaits]

Originally Posted by Cuddles

When I was little and refused to finish my food, my mother always used to admonish me that I shouldn't waste it because there were starving children in Ethiopia who could use it. My answer was of course "They can have it.". Of course, they couldn't. This was half-eaten food already going cold and stale on my plate. Even if I never finished it, it was never going to be useful to anyone else, let alone someone on a different continent. Sure, those starving Ethiopian children needed food, but whether I finished my plate or not was completely irrelevant to that.

I always thought the "starving kids in Africa" line was suppose to get you to feel bad for being spoiled. As in, there are starving kids in Ethiopia who would love to eat food like this, but you're refusing it because you're a spoiled brat who only wants to eat hot dogs and ice cream. But I take your point regardless.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by sackett

Re junk sports: I disagree about eliminating them. Let's have more, and livlier!

Why must the javelin just be about distance? Accuracy should count -- decisively, if we make spear-chucking into a two-team event!

And what about my old faves, knife- and tomahawk-throwing? Imagine a Mohawk Run with real Mohawks!

How about an egg-and-spoon race, a coconut shy and a tombola. Each country gets a ticket and then somebody from a neutral or non-existent "country" like Taiwan, Tibet, Puerto Rico or Palestine can reach in and take out the winning ticket. And instead of a gold medal the winning country gets a goldfish in a plastic bag of water.

I really think this will bring back the original amateurist spirit.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Mark6

Would you prefer every athlete to swim whichever way he does best, or uniform stroke established?

I think the object of the race should be swim as fast as you can. Any stroke is acceptable but obviously the winner will be swimming front crawl.

Originally Posted by Mark6

Also, is skiing a cheating by snowy nations?

Yes. Fortunately global warming will soon put a stop to all that snow. Ha ha ha!

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Say what?

No more Diff'rent Strokes!

[tomwaits]

Well obviously wife carrying should be added to the list.

[Damien Evans]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

I think the object of the race should be swim as fast as you can. Any stroke is acceptable but obviously the winner will be swimming front crawl.

That's exactly what freestyle is already, except that you can't do backstroke, breaststroke or butterfly if it's part of a medley. It's perfectly acceptable to do doggy-paddle or any other style you can think of though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freesty...and_regulation

[shadron]

Originally Posted by Cuddles

When I was little and refused to finish my food, my mother always used to admonish me that I shouldn't waste it because there were starving children in Ethiopia who could use it.

* Why is it always starving Africans in these silly emotional appeals anyway? Around 70% of malnourished children live in Asia.

When I was young (in the early fifties), it was starving Belgians, presumably a by-then anachronistic reference to lean years in Europe following WWII.

[Damien Evans]

Incidentally, here is an excellent article about Doping in Cycling.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interv...chael-ashenden

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Damien Evans

That's exactly what freestyle is already, except that you can't do backstroke, breaststroke or butterfly if it's part of a medley. It's perfectly acceptable to do doggy-paddle or any other style you can think of though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freesty...and_regulation

I know. Except about the medley stuff.

[Jekyll's Guest]

Build a fantastic Olympic facility in Greece, and use it every 4 years.

Moth ball it in the down time, and do occasional repairs/upgrades.

[Jekyll's Guest]

Originally Posted by Lamuella

I don't have a problem with people meeting up to see who can run fastest or play tennis the best. I just don't see why I have to be involved.

Your dictatorship must have a frightfully small pool to draw from.

[catsmate1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Brant

18 junkies were caught at the 2008 Olympics, but no doubt many more went undetected because they had better doctors.
Then there are loads more who are caught out at sporting events outside the Olympics.

Let's see, if those caught represent 5% of those abusing drugs that's be................. 0.8% of the athletes competing.
Fail.

Personally I have no intention of going near London while the olympics are on.

[geni]

Originally Posted by Tatyana

It is almost like the biological warfare adaptation between plants and insects, the black market chemists develop some new drug, for example 'the clear' (called clear as you wouldn't test postive on a urine steroid drug screen), and WADA keeps coming up with new and innovative ways to find drug cheats.

Not really. Very few new drugs are appearing and they are getting weaker with every generation (because they are basicaly derivatives of the stuff people want to use). Actualy comeing up with a new performancing enhancing drug from scratch would be very expensive and since the millitary is no longer interested there just isn't the funding.

[The Don]

Mrs Don and I were unsuccessful in the first ticket ballot and in the second got tickets for the Weightlifting in the O2 arena and football at the Millennium Stadium. We are VERY excited about going to the Olympics.

We went to the Commonwealth Games in Manchester for a day and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves. We also went to Turin in 2006 and that was amazing.

I love the Olympics and do not begrudge government spending particularly when the published costs include reclaiming and decontaminating a large part of East London and making significant infrastructure investments.

I hope there's also a use for the venues. I may misremember but I recall many year ago hearing that there are more 50m swimming pools in Calais then there are in the whole of the UK (around 5 at that time). I look in envy at the sporting facilities in small French towns and how they compare to the rubbish facilities in a major British city (Bristol). If there's a legacy, I hope it's in the form of improved facilities for grassroots sport.

[Soapy Sam]

I have no interest in watching people run. The dog next door is faster- and can catch frisbees in her teeth.
I did enjoy running, till the knees cratered.

I'd be far happier seeing the money spent improving sports facilities and encouraging youngsters (and oldsters) to actually get off the sofa and play sport themselves instead of watching professionals do it.
(And any pretence that Olympic athletes are not professionals is a sad joke).

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

I have no interest in watching people run. The dog next door is faster- and can catch frisbees in her teeth.

A people version of this definitely needs to become an Olympic event.

[tomwaits]

Watching people run is a blast when one of the runners is Usain Bolt!

[Soapy Sam]

Where's his frisbee?

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Lamuella

I don't have a problem with people meeting up to see who can run fastest or play tennis the best. I just don't see why I have to be involved.

Or why it needs so many billion pounds of taxpayers money.

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

I have no interest in watching people run. The dog next door is faster- and can catch frisbees in her teeth.
I did enjoy running, till the knees cratered.

I'd be far happier seeing the money spent improving sports facilities and encouraging youngsters (and oldsters) to actually get off the sofa and play sport themselves instead of watching professionals do it.
(And any pretence that Olympic athletes are not professionals is a sad joke).

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

A people version of this definitely needs to become an Olympic event.

Surely that is why they do discus in the middle of the running track?

[richardm]

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

It can also entertain hundreds of millions of people. So yes, we want the Olympics.

It could still entertain millions of people if all the participating nations chipped in a little bit to build some state-of-the-art Olympic village in Greece, which could be reused every year instead of costing billions to build from scratch every four. Since the vast, vast majority of people only ever watch the Olympics on television it barely matters where it is, surely?

Edit: I see Jekyll's Guest is working on the same lines

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Surely that is why they do discus in the middle of the running track?

Yes, but it's like watching paint dry. Adding the 'catch it in your teeth' part would be a real tonic.

I have some ideas to improve the javelin event too.

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by richardm

It could still entertain millions of people if all the participating nations chipped in a little bit to build some state-of-the-art Olympic village in Greece, which could be reused every year instead of costing billions to build from scratch every four. Since the vast, vast majority of people only ever watch the Olympics on television it barely matters where it is, surely?

This is an eminently sensible idea and I can't help but think that its not being adopted is a dead giveaway that there are agendas running that have nothing to do with a sporting event.

[richardm]

Originally Posted by Cuddles

* Why is it always starving Africans in these silly emotional appeals anyway? Around 70% of malnourished children live in Asia.

When I were a lad it was "think of the starving millions in China!". I usually thought that they were welcome to whatever it was I was shoving around my plate but that it would probably have gone off by the time they got it.

[richardm]

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Another way of transferring wealth from the many to the few?

'Want to cleanse your city of its poor? Host the Olympics

Hosting the Olympics is often presented to us as an ideologically neutral opportunity to boost tourism and sports. In a thought-provoking piece Ceasefire Magazine's Ashok Kumar outlines a clear and consistent, yet barely noticed, pattern of the Games being used to fundamentally restructure the host City to the purposeful exclusion of its working class and ethnic minority residents.'

...

"London 2012, originally expected to cost £2.4bn, is now projected at £24bn, with contracts going to some of the world’s most egregious employers and global human rights violators. Some on the left have been critical of the massive transfer from public to private at a time of austerity. The London overspend has been portrayed by officials as a one-off, but a glance at the history of the Olympics shows that underestimating the cost is a consistent part of the Olympic experience."

Not only that, look at Newham attempting to relocate 500 of its poorest families safely out of the way in Stoke before the Olympics kicks off.

[richardm]

To answer the OP: I don't think I do want the Olympics, no. I find it very distasteful to see billions of pounds being spent in London, of all places, at a time when money is tight everywhere else, and I find the claims that it's "in budget" to be infuriating when they simply increase the budget available to make sure that it stays in bounds.

Will it be a great spectacle? Sure! Is it worth £11 billion? Hardly. "We'll make the money back!" you say - that is a good one, please tell me another.

[P.J. Denyer]

[quote=Akhenaten;8276103]Adding the 'catch it in your teeth' part would be a real tonic.
[quote]


That was kinda the point. I obviously should have smilied it!

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by richardm

To answer the OP: I don't think I do want the Olympics, no. I find it very distasteful to see billions of pounds being spent in London, of all places, at a time when money is tight everywhere else, and I find the claims that it's "in budget" to be infuriating when they simply increase the budget available to make sure that it stays in bounds.

Will it be a great spectacle? Sure! Is it worth £11 billion? Hardly. "We'll make the money back!" you say - that is a good one, please tell me another.

This. Public tax money has been plowed into an enormous white elephant that will have made some private individuals and a few associated companies huge amounts of money while ordinary Londoners face a decade of increased council tax to foot the bill. Some companies will do well while the tourists are here, but the associated distruption is going to be a nightmare for any company in the effected areas that doesn't make it's money off tourists.

It's become a bloated and corrupt edifice that couldn't be further from the ideals it's supposed to embody.

[richardm]

Incidentally the £9.3 billion mentioned by the OP is the "Old" budget, which was already quite a hike from the original budget of £2.4 billion. The £9.3 billion budget got close to being broken back in 2007, so the "New" budget was set at £11 billion; now they're looking at raising it to £13 billion.

The Games must come in under budget, you know!

Despite all this huge amount of spend, it's still going to cost you £15 to go up Anish Kapoor's Intestine , or £7 if you're too short to see over the safety rail.

[3point14]

Even if I thought the Olympics in London were a good idea (which I don't), this would have changed my mind.

Seriously ugly.