Merged: Honor student jailed for missing school

[MG1962]

http://www.news.com.au/world/honour-...-1226369371401

According to this news story a school girl who has missed to much school is going to jail. The article points out the girl holds down two jobs while apparently being both an advanced student and very successful with her studies.

While I understand the law is the law. The judge should have had some latitude in how to handle this

[Newtons Bit]

Originally Posted by MG1962

http://www.news.com.au/world/honour-...-1226369371401

According to this news story a school girl who has missed to much school is going to jail. The article points out the girl holds down two jobs while apparently being both an advanced student and very successful with her studies.

While I understand the law is the law. The judge should have had some latitude in how to handle this

It appears the judge does have some latitude, according to TFA. He just wants to be a dick.

[autumn1971]

Wait a minute, even in Texas, I thought juvenile convictions were wiped from the record after adulthood was reached. Is it possible they are trying her as an adult for truancy?
I realize that it's rude to generalize about an entire state, plus I live in Florida, so glass houses and all that, but Texas seems to have a whole lot of people in positions of power who think, "okay, what's the response that best serves the people of Texas? Okay, let's do the opposite of that."

[JJM 777]

Originally Posted by MG1962

the law is the law. The judge should have had some latitude

Rather, the law should have some latitude.

Why do we go to school? To get a job. She already has two jobs, and has fulfilled all other educational objectives of the schooling system.

[The Dark Lord]

That sucks. When I was in high school, I would skip school sometimes just because I felt like it. The school never did anything, and the law doesn't require that you go to school if you are 16 or above.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

What a prick judge. I also tend to be very "the law is the law", but there is clearly no moral hazard here. How many other kids are in this situation that they could exploit it?

[Brian-M]

One night in jail doesn't seem too bad.

But a law requiring everyone to attend school until they're eighteen? That seems strange to me, over here it's only 16. But apparently that is the law over there. Although, at age 17 she would be exempted if she "has received a high school diploma or high school equivalency certificate".

ETA: And the section of law I linked to mentions referral to juvenile court. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this shouldn't leave her with a criminal record as an adult.

[DallasDad]

Oh, wow. Section 5(B) says:

Quote:

...[i]s at least 17 years of age and...has received a high school diploma or high school equivalency certificate

I don't see any exception in there for those under 17 who have completed high school. What do they do with wunderkind, or even just kids like me who start early and skip grades? I had my HS diploma in hand at age 15. I can't imagine having been made to sit around for two years twiddling my thumbs.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by JJM 777

Rather, the law should have some latitude.

Yes. That appears to be the problem here. At first I thought the judge must just be an idiot (especially his comment about letting them all run loose). But looking more closely, it appears to be the law that is idiotic (or at least inflexible).

The state passed truancy laws. There are exceptions and excused absences only for a limited number of circumstances. Schools must create preventative measures, but those still are only to prevent truancy according to the standards set by law.

The student broke the law. There isn’t really anything in the law that allows the school or the judge to make an exception for this type of case. In accordance with the law, the school is required to report the truancy. The judge is obligated to find the student guilty. (Although I have not looked into how much leniency the judge could have on sentencing.) But there appears to be nothing in the law to allow for exceptions for a case like this. It also looks like these are mostly relatively recent laws. I assume it is some “get tough on kids skipping school” legislation that was not well thought out.

The law looks like a mess. If, instead of maintaining enrollment and taking college prep classes, she had instead dropped out and took an instructional course to get a GED (with permission from her parents/guardians or was enrolled in a job crops training program,) then this law would not apply.

These are laws clearly intended to keep bad kids from skipping school and causing trouble, but they are so focused forcing a legal solution to the problem (rather than being focused on the people, the school system, or the causes of the problem) that they are so narrowly defined that no exceptions, no matter no illogical, are allowed. This reeks of arrogance of the legislature.

And, a student is excluded from the truancy laws if the student “attends a private or parochial school”. So if you are rich or Christian and attend a rich kids’ school or a Christian kids’ school, you can be truant and run amok without the fear of being subject to criminal prosecution.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by DallasDad

Oh, wow. Section 5(B) says:I don't see any exception in there for those under 17 who have completed high school. What do they do with wunderkind, or even just kids like me who start early and skip grades? I had my HS diploma in hand at age 15. I can't imagine having been made to sit around for two years twiddling my thumbs.

25.086(5)(B) exempts people at least 17 who have a high school diploma. There are a number of other exemptions. It would take quite a while to track them all down, but I doubt your case would be a legal problem.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Well, now I read it a bit more. The law gives the school a great deal of latitude.

Sec. 25.087. EXCUSED ABSENCES. (a) A person required to attend school, including a person required to attend school under Section 25.085(e), may be excused for temporary absence resulting from any cause acceptable to the teacher, principal, or superintendent of the school in which the person is enrolled.

So the outrage should be why the school turned this over to the court instead of allowing excused absences. My initial thought is that is falls in the principal. Teachers probably just record attendance. Btu school s are required to attempt to prevent truancy cases getting turned over to the court. I would think that would include intervention by the principal. And the principal should have, I would think, found cause for excused absences.

Of course, we don’t know the whole story at that level, so we can’t really make any sort of judgment. But it looks like the real news story should be focused on the principal, not the judge.

[ThunderChunky]

It seems like her parents abandoned her which should at least entitle her to some sort of emancipation rights. It sucks that there is no exemption for her situation, but she was warned.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Originally Posted by Huff Post

Diane Tran, a 17-year-old honor student in Texas, was forced to spend the night in jail last week after missing too many classes, KHOU-11's Sherry Williams reports.

The Willis High School junior, who helps support two siblings, has both a full time and part-time job. She said that she's often too tired to go to school.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1549160.html


That seem's a tad harsh, spending a night in jail and getting a criminal record for missing school.

[The Dark Lord]

You didn't see the identically titled thread that was at the top of the forum before you posted this?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

lol no.

[catsmate1]

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

You didn't see the identically titled thread that was at the top of the forum before you posted this?

It's not identically titled, it has different capitalisation.

[sadhatter]

Originally Posted by MG1962

http://www.news.com.au/world/honour-...-1226369371401

According to this news story a school girl who has missed to much school is going to jail. The article points out the girl holds down two jobs while apparently being both an advanced student and very successful with her studies.

While I understand the law is the law. The judge should have had some latitude in how to handle this

I had a similar situation way back in my high school days.

I was a good student, maintaining b's with the odd c or two throughout my career , if i really didn't care about the class ( looking at you gym and home ec.).

But in the same sense, i didn't like school itself, so i'd miss 1-3 days a week. Keep in mind i did many after school activities, kept up above average grades, and was in no way, shape or form a problematic kid.

One day i was called into the principals office, which was an extremely rare occurrence, and told if i missed any more time i would be suspended.

My logic was as follows.

"So my grades are better than most, i participate in plenty of extra curricular things, i just prefer to do my work on my own time, and avoid the atmosphere here. So your idea, is to stop this, you will send me home, to do work on my own time?"

From there he just tried scattergunning threats ( didn't work too well, as i was actually very involved in the school. About 50% of the time when i did skip class it was to do something school related, like shop for props , write scripts, set up fundraising crap etc. ) , from threatening to remove me from all non class related activities ( While i didn't like this, he agreed that it would essentially just be punishing others to get at me. ), to a threat that even he admitted was empty ( withholding my diploma , if i missed over X number of days, regardless of grades.).

I think attendance in public school has way too much emphasis put on it. Sure for most, attendance correlates with effort, which correlates with results, but not for all. As long as someone is keeping above average grades, attendance shouldn't be as focused on as it is.

[Ian]

I would like to remind people that Randi didn't go to school, and he turned out way more than "all right."

When a journalist asked the judge, who was in his robes at his bench, "Can anything be done to revoke this?" the judge responded, "yeah, it probably could." When the journalist asked further, "will you?" the judge responded, "I haven't thought on that issue, because it turns me (uncertain word starting with an "r") soft."

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/1862...essive-truancy

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by Ian

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/1862...essive-truancy

Quote:

But the judge said Tran's case was bigger than the individual situation of one student.

"If you let one run loose, what are you gonna' do with the rest of 'em?," said Judge Lanny Moriarty. "Let them go too? A little stay in the jail for one night is not a death sentence."

How does such a ******* idiot get to be a judge in the first place? Do they have to have a lobotomy before they get to sit on the bench?

[Travis]

Remember that Texas has a law against passing reasonable and logical laws.

[JihadJane]

Originally Posted by JJM 777

Rather, the law should have some latitude.

Why do we go to school? To get a job. She already has two jobs, and has fulfilled all other educational objectives of the schooling system.

Why get a job?

[Xulld]

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1549160.html


That seem's a tad harsh, spending a night in jail and getting a criminal record for missing school.

Not only harsh, but useless. What is the benefit.

[Ixion]

Originally Posted by Ian

I would like to remind people that Randi didn't go to school, and he turned out way more than "all right."

When a journalist asked the judge, who was in his robes at his bench, "Can anything be done to revoke this?" the judge responded, "yeah, it probably could." When the journalist asked further, "will you?" the judge responded, "I haven't thought on that issue, because it turns me (uncertain word starting with an "r") soft."

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/1862...essive-truancy

I watched the video. My in-laws live in Montgomery County. The missing word in your video is "rather". In other words, the judge doesn't want to be more tolerant because he wants to appear strict. Political? Maybe.

This issue should have been solved at the school level.

[Xulld]

Originally Posted by Ixion

I watched the video. My in-laws live in Montgomery County. The missing word in your video is "rather". In other words, the judge doesn't want to be more tolerant because he wants to appear strict. Political? Maybe.

This issue should have been solved at the school level.

If she is getting good grades I dont see an issue. They say teach to the test, they say lets evaluate performance, then when they get a good performing student instead of allowing that person to take time off as a reward for performance, they punish it. Makes no sense, to me the only issue is the school and the law.

I think if more kids were allowed to work hard, get good grades, and then as a treat get a couple days off every other week, until there grades slip, its just not an issue.

[rwguinn]

There's an election, including for judge positions, going on right now...

[Mehdimentio]

Yikes. It's a relief I don't live in Texas...

So the judge's argument for this harsh sentence (despite the plausible background of the case) is a slippery slope (and a poorly constructed one at that)?

"an unsympathetic judge claimed if one student was allowed to avoid jail then they would all "run loose""

[Max_mang]

Originally Posted by sadhatter

I think attendance in public school has way too much emphasis put on it. Sure for most, attendance correlates with effort, which correlates with results, but not for all. As long as someone is keeping above average grades, attendance shouldn't be as focused on as it is.

I'm paraphrasing a bit as I can't remember the exact quotes:

"American public schools make you smart enough to do some kind of job, but dumb enough to swallow all the BS that goes along with it." - Frank Zappa

"The public school system is set up as a babysitting camp so people can continue working, and to train your kids to sit still for hours and not talk back to authority." - Doug Stanhope

How many jobs have you had where people have to spend hours a week driving to/from work (or take a train or bus) to sit in an office all day and do work they could easily do in the field or at home? I've had several. While I'm not a conspiracy theorist who thinks the government is purposely training people to be docile, the american public schools sure do set you up for that kind of mindset and to not defer from the norm.

[pgwenthold]

OK, while everyone is blaming the judge, he is merely the judge in this case. Someone ELSE brought the charge against her, and didn't like her missing school. Who did that? Was it the school? Or the police?

[Noztradamus]

Originally Posted by JJM 777

Rather, the law should have some latitude.

Why do we go to school? .....

For the school to receive gov subsidies based on the number of days you attend.

As judgy said, he wanted to make an example of her Pour encourager les autres.

[RemieV]

As always, here I am to inject skepticism.

1) The first articles made it sound like she was supporting two younger kids who were living with her or something. That is false. Her brother is older than her and is a student at A&M. Her sister, who is younger, lives with relatives.

2) She lives with one of her employers.

3) She was warned by a judge in April and chose not to heed that warning.

4) The quotes about her going to bed at 7am are from her friend; not from her employer.

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by RemieV

As always, here I am to inject skepticism. [ . . . SNIP . . . ]

Your skepticism is simply paraphrasing the apparent belief in Texas that the only thing that matters is that her body is in a class room. Absolutely nothing else about "education" registers with the Texan PTB.

[Jodie]

GED is always an option if work is a priority for the girl right now.

[RemieV]

Originally Posted by psionl0

Your skepticism is simply paraphrasing the apparent belief in Texas that the only thing that matters is that her body is in a class room. Absolutely nothing else about "education" registers with the Texan PTB.

It's not a Texas thing. It's a U.S. thing.

http://www.enotes.com/education-reference/truancy

Here, let's pick a state that people think of as more liberal. I'll go with California:

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/ai/tr/

Now, if I'm reading this correctly, Diane Tran missed ten days. In California, she would've been in front of a judge after four.

If what's called into question are the laws themselves, fine. But what I'm reading is people saying that she's a special case for reasons that aren't actually valid, and that those special reasons should've been taken into consideration.

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by RemieV

If what's called into question are the laws themselves, fine.

The laws are definitely stupid alright. In Australia they would be considered "racist" because it is a challenge to get an indigenous student to actually attend school - especially in the outback. (I'm sure that laws like these criminalize disadvantaged US citizens too).

Originally Posted by RemieV

But what I'm reading is people saying that she's a special case for reasons that aren't actually valid, and that those special reasons should've been taken into consideration.

Judges specialize in thumbing their noses at government legislation. This particular vegetable chose to apply the letter of the law and ignore any mitigating circumstances.

[Careyp74]

This is simple, for the most part, although I can understand problems with her dealing with the situation. You live where you want to. If you do not like the laws in the state that you are paying taxes in, you can usually move to one where the laws are more to your liking.

Changing the laws yourself is not an option. That is like hitting your head against a brick wall.

Did she know about the truancy laws? She is a 17 year old honor student, she can't plead ignorance.

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by Careyp74

If you do not like the laws in the state that you are paying taxes in, you can usually move to one where the laws are more to your liking.

So if the state passes a law compelling everybody to pick their nose and pick their bum, where will you be putting your digit?

[Careyp74]

Originally Posted by psionl0

So if the state passes a law compelling everybody to pick their nose and pick their bum, where will you be putting your digit?

God, I wouldn't use the same finger, that is just disgusting.

Also, I would be moving out of the state, since I do not want to be around a bunch of nose pickers.

[RemieV]

Originally Posted by psionl0

The laws are definitely stupid alright. In Australia they would be considered "racist" because it is a challenge to get an indigenous student to actually attend school - especially in the outback. (I'm sure that laws like these criminalize disadvantaged US citizens too).

Judges specialize in thumbing their noses at government legislation. This particular vegetable chose to apply the letter of the law and ignore any mitigating circumstances.

My point is that there has been no real evidence that there ARE mitigating circumstances. There's just been a bunch of spin.

From the time I was sixteen until the time I was eighteen, I held two jobs - one at a fast food restaurant, and one at a store in the mall. I was fully aware that this wasn't an excuse to miss class in and of itself. The total hours I worked were 50-60/wk - the equivalent of one full time job, and one part time job.

I was also an honor student.

And it was in Texas.

[ZirconBlue]

Originally Posted by Careyp74

This is simple, for the most part, although I can understand problems with her dealing with the situation. You live where you want to. If you do not like the laws in the state that you are paying taxes in, you can usually move to one where the laws are more to your liking.

Changing the laws yourself is not an option. That is like hitting your head against a brick wall.

Did she know about the truancy laws? She is a 17 year old honor student, she can't plead ignorance.

Yes, dear 17-year-old, pack up and move to another state. It's easy! I'm sure you've saved up all sorts of money for moving expenses and that you will have no problem at all finding housing or a job!

Originally Posted by RemieV

My point is that there has been no real evidence that there ARE mitigating circumstances. There's just been a bunch of spin.

The point is that the only reason to insist students attend class is to ensure that they get an education. If she is indeed an honor roll student, then, clearly her missing class is not a serious impediment for her to get that education. It's a clear case of Spirit v Letter.

And the fact that the law apparently only applies to students in public school is ridiculous.

[Careyp74]

Originally Posted by ZirconBlue

Yes, dear 17-year-old, pack up and move to another state. It's easy! I'm sure you've saved up all sorts of money for moving expenses and that you will have no problem at all finding housing or a job!

Didn't seem to have any trouble finding two already. Both her parents also seemed to be able to move away easy enough by themselves. Perhaps she could have gone with one of them?

Originally Posted by ZirconBlue

The point is that the only reason to insist students attend class is to ensure that they get an education. If she is indeed an honor roll student, then, clearly her missing class is not a serious impediment for her to get that education. It's a clear case of Spirit v Letter.

Enrollment and attendance plays a big part in school funding also.

Originally Posted by ZirconBlue

And the fact that the law apparently only applies to students in public school is ridiculous.

Catholic schools do not get public funding.