Shame at Edmund Scientific.

[wackyvorlon]

Just ran into this on their online catalog: http://www.scientificsonline.com/rev...tegory/444475/

It's a training DVD for remote viewing. They're also selling a device for ghost hunting. Maybe with a little encouragement they can be reminded of what their real customer base wants?

[crimresearch]

Originally Posted by wackyvorlon

Just ran into this on their online catalog: http://www.scientificsonline.com/rev...tegory/444475/

It's a training DVD for remote viewing. They're also selling a device for ghost hunting. Maybe with a little encouragement they can be reminded of what their real customer base wants?

All the parts needed to build a lifelike robot? A girl robot?

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by wackyvorlon

Just ran into this on their online catalog: http://www.scientificsonline.com/rev...tegory/444475/

It's a training DVD for remote viewing. They're also selling a device for ghost hunting. Maybe with a little encouragement they can be reminded of what their real customer base wants?

Wasn't there a SWIFT entry on this a year or so back, when they first crossed the line? Maybe they could change their name to Edmund Sciencey Stuff.

They were a very respected name, but I guess the lure of money is too great to resist for some people/companies. I remember looking them up and it's not the same company all the science geeks know from the 50s to 70s. Some megacorp owns them now.

[neeche]

That is ridiculous. Reallly too bad they sell something like that.

[wackyvorlon]

I've sent them an email about it, and posted a negative review for the product. Here's hoping we can get them to see sense.

[jj]

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...uplex%20outlet

Check the reviews for that. Keep your sarcasm detector on low, low gain, so it doesn't catch fire. That may be the way to handle the one in the OP, too.

[davefoc]

FWIW, gold plated contacts might be the best approach to making corrosion resistance highly reliable outlets.

Of course gold plated contacts will not have any detectable effect on the performance of an audio system, but these outlets may give you the best chance of having an outlet last for a thousand years or so.

ETA: I just read through some of the customer reviews for the Wattgate 381. I wasn't sure which ones were true believer, company planted or just sarcastic but I'm pretty sure the guy who was using it to cure his warts wasn't being serious.

[wackyvorlon]

But it tightened one guys bass!

[jj]

Originally Posted by davefoc

FWIW, gold plated contacts might be the best approach to making corrosion resistance highly reliable outlets.

Of course gold plated contacts will not have any detectable effect on the performance of an audio system, but these outlets may give you the best chance of having an outlet last for a thousand years or so.

Cryogenic treatment?

[davefoc]

Originally Posted by jj

Cryogenic treatment?

Yeah, I saw that little bit of fun but I wasn't quite sure I got it. The idea is that cooling parts of the outlet to cryogenic levels during the manufacturing process improves it somehow? It sounded like this had something to do with some kind of audiophile mythology that I wasn't familiar with.

[wackyvorlon]

Well, cryogenic hardening of steel is a real thing:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_hardening

But it's completely unnecessary here.

[SezMe]

Originally Posted by davefoc

....but I'm pretty sure the guy who was using it to cure his warts wasn't being serious.

It's the ninth post down. Don't miss it.

[davefoc]

Originally Posted by wackyvorlon

Well, cryogenic hardening of steel is a real thing:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_hardening

But it's completely unnecessary here.

Yeah, I had heard of it in that context, I went looking for any information about it's use with brass. (I assume the metal components of an outlet are brass). I happened on the Wikipedia article which looks like it's a self serving blurb possibly by a company that's involved in cryogenically treating this kind of product. I didn't see any information about its use for treating brass.

Slightly off topic aside:
When I submitted plans for a renovation I was doing to the city the guy had me change the word outlet to receptacle. He said that electricians use the word, outlet, to mean an electrical box that could have a light, switch or receptacle installed in it. Sounded believable to me and I never checked to see if he was right.

[jj]

Originally Posted by davefoc

FWIW, gold plated contacts might be the best approach to making corrosion resistance highly reliable outlets.

Of course gold plated contacts will not have any detectable effect on the performance of an audio system, but these outlets may give you the best chance of having an outlet last for a thousand years or so.

ETA: I just read through some of the customer reviews for the Wattgate 381. I wasn't sure which ones were true believer, company planted or just sarcastic but I'm pretty sure the guy who was using it to cure his warts wasn't being serious.

The site is infested with Electrical Engineers. If you think it might perhaps be sarcasm, it probably is.

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by jj

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...uplex%20outlet

Check the reviews for that. Keep your sarcasm detector on low, low gain, so it doesn't catch fire. That may be the way to handle the one in the OP, too.

That link just cost me about an hour of reading time. Hysterical. I love the guy who plugged his Bose Wave AM/FM Radio into one of the cryogenic receptacles and got an improved LED display. He said something like, (I paraphrase) "I don't know if it's that I'm getting greener greens or blacker blacks - or both - but it's a totally new experience...."

[Jeff Corey]

"it allowed me to finally notice a slight upper level linear phase cancellation of high frequency harmonics around 68 khz."
My dog couldn't hear this. This guy must have bat ancestry. Or is just bats.

[R.A.F.]

My fav review...about the 5th or 6th page....device cured some poor fella's performance anxiety...but he's doing much better, now...

I wonder if it can make crops grow?

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by jj

The site is infested with Electrical Engineers. If you think it might perhaps be sarcasm, it probably is.

There are a LOT of sarcastic reviews...

[kookbreaker]

/stands up

Hi folks. Most of you know me as kookbreaker. Some of you know me from owning a certain science store that I am not allowed to mention in my .sig.

In any case, allow me to explain some background.

Edmund Scientific, which most folks know, was sold to Science Kit & Boreal Lab in 2001 so that the Edmund Company could continue to operate as Edmund Optics, they now produce a huge catalog of industrial optics and equipment.

The division that was sold was semi-officially known as 'Scientifics'. They had been using that title on the catalogs for several years before the sale. It was officially 'Scientifics, a division of Edmund Scientific'. It was the Edmund most of us are familiar with.

Science Kit was eventually purchased by VWR - a large supplier of lab equipment. While Scientifics thrived under SK and VWR at first, they have since been struggling a bit. I suspect their catalog management has been an issue. After I had a nice write-up in The Philadelphia Inquirer I was actually contacted by representatives of VWR - I am presently not at liberty to say why. Robert Edmund also contacted me.

As some have noted, this is not Edmund Scientifics first flirting with woo. In the last decade a few items popped up that were very questionable. But in the past the Edmund Catalog was often quite heavy with woo. Evidence this scan I have of a page from the 1975 catalog:



Edmund dropped most of this stuff in the 80's when they started to branch out into industrial concerns and were worried about being taken seriously.

I was hired by the Scientifics division in 1999 to be most of their product line manager. I was rather determined to not add anything close to woo stuff, and despite this there were tons of products that came in of one kind of ************ or another. Once the company was sold, I no longer had any say in the product line.

[wackyvorlon]

I wanted to add an update. I've received a response to my email from them, and I guess the remote viewing DVD is officially discontinued, but they have old stock laying around. After that's gone, it'll be off their website.

They share our perspective on the importance of Edmund sticking to science, and the value of the company in that direction. I'm pretty pleased with the response I've received.

[crimresearch]

Thank you for the update. I'll be sending them one saying that I appreciate them clearing out that stuff.

[kookbreaker]

According to the reviews, this thing has been in the catalog for 3 years. I suspect it is being dropped due to poor sales rather than any complaints.

[Almo]

Even when I was a kid looking at probably that very catalog, I saw the way the woo-item descriptions were written. They were inviting you to buy the pyramid thing, put a piece of fruit in it, and see that it wasn't preserved any better than in a normal plastic container.

It was deceptive marketing, but if you read carefully, you could see they were inviting customers to do their own testing on these things. Which really is "scientific" after all, right?

[Careyp74]

Originally Posted by wackyvorlon

Well, cryogenic hardening of steel is a real thing:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_hardening

But it's completely unnecessary here.

I think cryogenic heat treatments would have a LOT of effect.

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by Almo

Even when I was a kid looking at probably that very catalog, I saw the way the woo-item descriptions were written. They were inviting you to buy the pyramid thing, put a piece of fruit in it, and see that it wasn't preserved any better than in a normal plastic container.

It was deceptive marketing, but if you read carefully, you could see they were inviting customers to do their own testing on these things. Which really is "scientific" after all, right?

Not from what I am reading. That is just one page of many covering woo topics. In that same catalog there are two pages covering biofeedback equipment (including an E-meter!), a whole page-n-half of Kirlian photography. The page next to the Pyramid page was a combo of 'ESP' gear and genuine optical illusion stuff. Now this would be just 5-6 pages out of a 165 page catalog, but still...

Add to it that one of the very influential persons in the company at that time subscribes to a lot of woo. Great guy, but fell for a lot of that 70's woo stuff.

[davefoc]

Originally Posted by Careyp74

I think cryogenic heat treatments would have a LOT of effect.

That article says steel. What is the effect on brass (assuming the contacts in a receptacle are brass)? I am not sure that making contacts in a normal electrical receptacle is a good thing to do if cryogenic heat treatments had that effect on the contacts. I see two possible issues:
1. Would a super hard material make a good connection to a plug? Maybe the brass that is used conforms a bit to the plug which actually leads to a better connection?
2. Would a super hard material receptacle contact wear the plug faster than a standard receptacle contact?

On the other hand, gold plating the contacts probably does make the receptacle better. I used to be involved with the design of hand held computers and battery contact plating was an issue. Gold seemed to be the best but it was also the most expensive so we used other approaches as I recall. I will say though that in more than twenty years of owning a small apartment building near the ocean I can not remember a receptacle failing because of corroded contacts. In fact receptacles are extremely reliable and are generally replaced because they get dirty in a way that's hard to clean or for some other aesthetic reason. So I am thinking the return on investment for $150 receptacles could be a long one.

[Audible Click]

Originally Posted by wackyvorlon

I wanted to add an update. I've received a response to my email from them, and I guess the remote viewing DVD is officially discontinued, but they have old stock laying around. After that's gone, it'll be off their website.

They share our perspective on the importance of Edmund sticking to science, and the value of the company in that direction. I'm pretty pleased with the response I've received.

Did it give the impression of a form letter or did it seem to be written by an actual human being? I'm asking this because, although, I don't write many complaint emails, the last few I've written seem to be form emails. IMO very bad business.

[NobbyNobbs]

Originally Posted by wackyvorlon

But it tightened one guys bass!

Does it work for salmon or trout too?

[maddog]

OMG, those reviews are hysterical!!!

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by wackyvorlon

Just ran into this on their online catalog: http://www.scientificsonline.com/rev...tegory/444475/

It's a training DVD for remote viewing. They're also selling a device for ghost hunting. Maybe with a little encouragement they can be reminded of what their real customer base wants?

free enterprise and the like, deal with and let lack of interest kill it off rather than foricing your agenda on people maybe.

[Theofrak]

Maybe they will start selling e-Meters.

[Speedskater]

a] From an NEC (US National Electric Code) point of view, a receptacle is the device that a plug is inserted in. Most common is the dual receptacle unit. An outlet is the box in the wall, where power leaves the in-wall system to a fan or luminary (lamp) or heater or receptacle. A box with only a switch is not an outlet. But one major receptacle manufacture only calls them outlets, the word receptacle is not on the package.

b] Gold is a great material for low voltage, low current contacts. But gold is bad in high current contacts. With gold AC power connectors, if you plug in a unit that is already switched on, the gold plating at the point of contact will be destroyed.

[MattusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Wasn't there a SWIFT entry on this a year or so back, when they first crossed the line? Maybe they could change their name to Edmund Sciencey Stuff.

They were a very respected name, but I guess the lure of money is too great to resist for some people/companies. I remember looking them up and it's not the same company all the science geeks know from the 50s to 70s. Some megacorp owns them now.

Yup, I blew the whistle on Edmund (Pseudo)Scientific three years ago. I wrote about it in an online article to Skeptical Inquirer - http://www.csicop.org/si/show/edmund...host_detectors - and on my Skeptical Teacher blog - http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.co...ors-other-woo/ (I can't recall if I wrote an article for the JREF blog on this)

I was also interviewed on SETI Radio's "Skeptic Check" two years ago about this topic - http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.co...skeptic-check/

In addition, even after all this exposure (and after I tried to contact them and got others to do likewise) to have them stop promoting this nonsense, they appear to have doubled-down on the woo, because now they're selling an "ESP Lamp", too...
http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.co...c-at-it-again/

My advice is to simply boycott them. And I encourage you to tell all your teacher/education friends and acquaintences to do the same. I know they certainly won't be getting my school district's money any more.

[MattusMaximus]

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

According to the reviews, this thing has been in the catalog for 3 years. I suspect it is being dropped due to poor sales rather than any complaints.

Nope. If fact, on more than one occasion I have noticed that it has been "out of stock", which likely means it is selling quite well. At least, that's how I've been reading it over the years.

For example, just look at their "Ghost Hunting Party in a Box" - out of stock and selling like hotcakes, apparently

My favorite part... the description:

Quote:

Back in the day, your parents used a Ouija board to contact the dead. You can get your “ghostbuster” on this Halloween with this high-tech Ghost Hunting Party in a Box – the best starter kit available to hunt down the paranormal. Just add your own video camera, and host your own “spooky” event! Starter Kit includes: GaussMaster Electromagnetic Field (EMF) meter, Portable Motion Sensor, Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP) Listener, Digital Local Remote Thermometer, Deluxe Carrying Case to keep it all together.

I'll be taking my school district's business elsewhere, thank you.

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Nope. If fact, on more than one occasion I have noticed that it has been "out of stock", which likely means it is selling quite well. At least, that's how I've been reading it over the years.

Hmmm. Could be. Overall Edmund is not doing well, however.

Quote:

For example, just look at their "Ghost Hunting Party in a Box" - out of stock and selling like hotcakes, apparently

My favorite part... the description:

Could be then. I make no further apologies for Edmund these days. They had their days of woo in the past. But they moved on from that 70;s stuff.

Quote:

I'll be taking my school district's business elsewhere, thank you.

* kookbreaker waves!

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

My advice is to simply boycott them. And I encourage you to tell all your teacher/education friends and acquaintences to do the same. I know they certainly won't be getting my school district's money any more.

I should point out that Edmund was purchased from the Edmund family in 2001 by Science Kit & Boreal Lab (The Edmund family went into industrial optics). SK&B was in turn purchased by VWR. VWR owns a lot of science suppliers.

[zeggman]

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Nope. If fact, on more than one occasion I have noticed that it has been "out of stock", which likely means it is selling quite well. At least, that's how I've been reading it over the years.

For example, just look at their "Ghost Hunting Party in a Box" - out of stock and selling like hotcakes, apparently

My favorite part... the description:


I'll be taking my school district's business elsewhere, thank you.

Meh, you can either use the equipment in that box to do science and fail to find supernatural activity, or you can use it for science that has nothing to do with chasing ghosts.

You're free to buy your equipment wherever you choose, but I don't fault them for this as long as they're still selling microscopes, telescopes, chemistry sets, electronic kits, etc.

I'm more concerned about "The Science Channel" which is MOSTLY given over to pseudo-science or manufacturing technology. I used to see science shows on that channel, but I guess the market wasn't there. I suspect that people who would watch a real "science channel" are spending more time on the internet and less in front of the TV. Not trying to derail here, but I think Edmund Scientific is still selling mostly science equipment, and even these pseudo-science kits can be used for real science.

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by zeggman

Meh, you can either use the equipment in that box to do science and fail to find supernatural activity, or you can use it for science that has nothing to do with chasing ghosts.

You're free to buy your equipment wherever you choose, but I don't fault them for this as long as they're still selling microscopes, telescopes, chemistry sets, electronic kits, etc.

I'm more concerned about "The Science Channel" which is MOSTLY given over to pseudo-science or manufacturing technology. I used to see science shows on that channel, but I guess the market wasn't there. I suspect that people who would watch a real "science channel" are spending more time on the internet and less in front of the TV. Not trying to derail here, but I think Edmund Scientific is still selling mostly science equipment, and even these pseudo-science kits can be used for real science.

I don't know about that.

Using over-sensitive equipment can very easily lead to people getting false positives ( or at least thinking they've gotten a positive). I've seen the woo programs where people swing around hypersensitive EM detectors and marvel at how all the lights change. I've seen folks with digital thermometers that read to .1F marvel at the 'cold spots' that are less than .2 degrees difference from the rest of the area.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by wackyvorlon

But it tightened one guys bass!

So the bass' hole is now smaller and fits properly..??[

[zeggman]

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

I don't know about that.

Using over-sensitive equipment can very easily lead to people getting false positives ( or at least thinking they've gotten a positive). I've seen the woo programs where people swing around hypersensitive EM detectors and marvel at how all the lights change. I've seen folks with digital thermometers that read to .1F marvel at the 'cold spots' that are less than .2 degrees difference from the rest of the area.

IMO learning how to distinguish between noise and signal, and the capabilities/limitations of the instruments one is using, is also part of doing science.

Whether that's likely to happen at a "Paranormal Party" probably depends on the people involved. Either way, I don't fault ES for selling the hardware.