Houla Massacre, Syria: What If?

[JihadJane]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

Sensitivity aside, I don't want a blind person driving the taxi I'm rising in, and I'd rather not have issues of war and peace decided by ... people with an overly inward-directed self-reinforcing trancelike closed mindedness to overwhelming new info they can'tor refuse to grasp ... or whatever exactly she was driving at with the descriptor. Find a better one, if you want to help.

I dig your point, of course. Just have a counter-one.

Please don't denigrate people with autism with rubbish like this (hilited).

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Please don't denigrate people with autism with rubbish like this (hilited).

Only by adduction. The actual disparaging was of the Western media and governments, described as autistic in a disparaging sense.

[Childlike Empress]

I apologize if I hurt feeling with my choice of words, i'm not writing in my mother tongue and did not intent to make fun of people with "disabilities/different abilities". What I wanted to refer to is the self-involved echo chamber of the western media.

[JihadJane]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

Only by adduction. The actual disparaging was of the Western media and governments, described as autistic in a disparaging sense.

Indeed, and no better than using people's race in a disparaging sense, e.g. "Jewish western media", when using Jewish as a metaphor for miserly. The reflection goes both ways.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

Did we know the Guardian boy Ali has a video? English subtitles. I forgot how young 11 can look. From "activists say" to "kids say the darnedest things in a war zone."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9KnjNxU8nI
11yo Ali Alsayed Houla Massacre 25/05/12 Survivor Tells his Story

Gets good at 2:07 as he shows the bullet graze on the back of his right hand. Tough kid, no tears or sign of emotion, other than eagerness to do this right. How he knew it was the gov't and not gangs:
the tank right outside their house, which was firing. And because they were Shahiba, in army fatigues and civilian clothes mixed, with big beards. No mention of the muscle man. Not that I really believe he saw anything like this. They stole 3 TVs, a computer, and a vacuum, he says.

Now, hasn't it been established his name does match with one of the families wiped out? Is it his real name, I wonder? He says his uncle was on Syrian state TV, which the kid watches, explaining Ali's other uncle(s?) and brother were killed by armed gangs. (see 2:41) I'm guessing this was a real broadcast, but here Ali exposes the hoax - he'd been arrested too, I think, clearly taken by gov't forces (no rogue Shahiba here) and made to lie on their TV channel. He probably also said they were an Alawi family and Ali might agree if pressed, but I wonder if it's true.

Most heartfelt part is at 3:09. This kid can see the big picture. Please watch, and spread the word. Syria's children need our help now.

Interesting video. There must have been more than one interview with the kid. The German article I linked to earlier contains the same name of the boy and a screenshot which looks like your youtube-video.

The Guardian article doesn't mention his name and contains more info about other victim forenames, he names his sister and brother f.e., not included in the youtube.

With those names I did my investigation into how his testimony and that of the ANNA witnesses could fit together. The Al-Sayed family is said to be a Sunni family targeted because of their allegance to the Government and the fact that one of them became a member of the new Parliament.

But that is not the family the names mentioned in the Guardian article belong to, which I found on the victims list linked very early in the thread. That's a different family (although they could belong to the same clan somehow), Arif, and was, according to the boy in the Guardian interview, targeted in the early morning of Saturday (when they were already false-flagging, as I've speculated) while the Al-Sayed family was targeted Friday late afternoon.

See linked post for details.

edit: the other main victim family Abdul Rasak, to which a majority of the murdered children belonged, is the one said to have converted from Sunni to Shia.

[JihadJane]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I apologize if I hurt feeling with my choice of words, i'm not writing in my mother tongue and did not intent to make fun of people with "disabilities/different abilities". What I wanted to refer to is the self-involved echo chamber of the western media.

Thanks. Let's stick to "self-involved echo chamber" in the future!

I don't want to prolong this topic but I'd like to add that autistic people are usually intensely sensitive to what's going on around them.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

Had to dig a bit for what I heard about the SOHRs. Actually, it's still too confusing - one guy has two names, etc. Some comments here by Petri Krohn show a grip I never got. He thinks they're both fake groups run by the Syrians. I don't know. If so, for either, they should make it clearer and deliver the punchline before it's too late.

In one post he links to an informative and reasonably objective article: The Syrian Observatory: The Inside Story. According to this, our good doctor was caught in a lot of lies and seems to be a plain hoaxer. In the recent context, why would he treat the muscle guys if he is a pathologist? The other SOHR seems to be a bit more credible, although as the article describes their stated methodology remains questionable - partly due to the nature of what they are doing. Certainly that one-man-and-his-secretary outlet also doesn't deserve the huge credit they get from the media and western organizations.

Your friends theory that both SOHR's are propaganda outlets of the Syrian Government seems totally implausible to me, given how their reportings shape the picture the western observer gets.

One site which openly puts names to their counts and daily reports is this one, which seems relatively objective although judged by the flag not on "rebel" side - they report the casualties and related accusations of "both" sides.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

We've seen Hermann's rebuttal to the critics. Now here's his new fascist-supporting fringe media admirer John Rosenthall's rebuttal.
http://pressenza.com/npermalink/syri...acre-revisited
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...ohn-rosenthal#

Good rebuttal to a very weak critique missing the point and using guilt by association. If Thierry Meyssan wouldn't exist, one would have to invent him, eh? In the older thread on the UN vetos I cited the mother from Qara after I found her website totally independent of any Meyssan interviews, I think it was over an article from the Vatican news agency FIDES.

And if we would want to turn the guilt-by-association around, which Rosenthal didn't do: Hahaha, you're working for Middle East Forum, Daniel Pipes' "think-tank"!

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Toontown and Virus.

Yew rang?

What? Now you're trying to sell it that I buy any of the clown-poo you, CE, and CL are selectively offering up? Trust me on this: I don't buy any of the clown poo you scoop up, irrespective of which side of the argument it's on.

OK, I"ll admit to having been uncertain for a while as to whether CNN is more or less credible than you lot and your sources...

...nah. Not really. I jest. Between you lot and CNN, it's CNN, hands down.

[Caustic Logic]

To Autistic people and allies who've taken offense: Apologies for my part trying to discern what the wrongly-applied descriptor meant in this case. My social skills are a bit lacking. Sometimes I think I have a touch of Autism, Asperger's type.

To Toontown:
The crap in question is that offered by the Daily Fail with their bodybuilder pictures. Is it true or untrue you buy that? Believe, proudly, I suppose, as with alll the other war-mongering corporate media outlets?

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Interesting video. There must have been more than one interview with the kid. The German article I linked to earlier contains the same name of the boy and a screenshot which looks like your youtube-video.

The Guardian article doesn't mention his name and contains more info about other victim forenames, he names his sister and brother f.e., not included in the youtube.

With those names I did my investigation into how his testimony and that of the ANNA witnesses could fit together. The Al-Sayed family is said to be a Sunni family targeted because of their allegance to the Government and the fact that one of them became a member of the new Parliament.

But that is not the family the names mentioned in the Guardian article belong to, which I found on the victims list linked very early in the thread. That's a different family (although they could belong to the same clan somehow), Arif, and was, according to the boy in the Guardian interview, targeted in the early morning of Saturday (when they were already false-flagging, as I've speculated) while the Al-Sayed family was targeted Friday late afternoon.

See linked post for details.

edit: the other main victim family Abdul Rasak, to which a majority of the murdered children belonged, is the one said to have converted from Sunni to Shia.

Ah... this is interesting and I need to get a better handle on it. Al-Sayed, Sunni but loyal, except according to Ali and the others. I did review Chulov's interview, running quite close to this version, except I think he says there his brother and uncle were killed right there instead of taken. And I was wrong he survived two massacres-the other house he ran to was his uncle's, who talked to the soldiers, as if freindly, as they asked him who they had just killed, as if he knew but they didn't, as if he told them to do it. And THEN he went on TV saying it was armed gangs, and Ali the 8-year-old 11-year-old was able to catch both ends of it.

Convenient.

Ali's uncle is, I presume, the one who just won election on May 24 (that I picked up in a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD0PA0BxNAQ&t=3m35s

Some statement on the rebel attitude towards democracy?

So this is all supposed to be the same family, but I guess there are different versions of it suffering multiple fates and divisions. Needs more work, some of it probably later today.

Other points,same... must go buy new food now.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

To Toontown:
The crap in question is that offered by the Daily Fail with their bodybuilder pictures. Is it true or untrue you buy that? Believe, proudly, I suppose, as with alll the other war-mongering corporate media outlets?

Haven't read it, but aside from my not being a big fan of British media in general, tabloids in particular, and British street ideology specifically:

The fact that Jihad Jane, based on zero input from me, said I buy it is two strikes against it on that account alone.

The fact that you want me to buy it so I can be your poster boy for your "war-mongering corporate media" indoctrinational rhetoric is strike three.

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by Toontown

Haven't read it, but aside from my not being a big fan of British media in general, tabloids in particular, and British street ideology specifically:

The fact that Jihad Jane, based on zero input from me, said I buy it is two strikes against it on that account alone.

The fact that you want me to buy it so I can be your poster boy for your "war-mongering corporate media" indoctrinational rhetoric is strike three.

Nope, you read me wrong. First, I was clarifying the misunderstanding, second, hoping to challenge you into agreeing with us that it's apparently a bunch of crap made up by the second-tier SOHR knock-off thing. I like reaching agreements where possible. But until you give it a review, it's probably best to just leave it unsure - but panned by your fellow forum members AND a British alarmist tabloid take, so not likely to be real great...

And if it's crap, Assad's baby-killing Alawite muscle-men remain mysterious and not reliably "exposed' yet.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

I'm not familiar with her stance on that. Perhaps her mind isn't keen on all levels. But on analyzing the UN's manipulation into supporting imperialist wars by the West, in Libya and Syria, she's done some good stuff.

The thing is it's the same mind-set that sees conspiracies in 9/11 that also sees conspiracies in the UN supporting "imperialist wars by the West". It goes hand in hand.

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

The thing is it's the same mind-set that sees conspiracies in 9/11 that also sees conspiracies in the UN supporting "imperialist wars by the West". It goes hand in hand.

It can, sure. I mean, I had that "bad feeling" about 9/11, and took some of the CTclaims seriously for a bit. But there is a differential when it comes to evidence. Anyway, it's a side-point I don't have more time for. This too is about the evidence, specifically for how big the "if" in the OP title really is.

[Virus]

Your "evidence" comes from the brutal totalitarian state doing the killing. Were you born yesterday?

[Caustic Logic]

I really do ... appreciate, that's the word ... Virus' contributions. I think he gets at the heart of things a lot of other poster's feel, with less dancing around. It can he helpful.

Anyway, "pretending" to do some research, I took the lady in the video who said
“They also killed people from the Abdulrazak family, ten persons, they killed them because they support the authorities. Of Al-Sayed family, they killed the family of the brother of Abdullah Al-Mashlab, the 3rd person in the Syrian parliament. He was elected on May 24th, and the next day they killed his wife and three kids and his brother and his big family as well."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD0PA0BxNAQ&t=3m35s

Another Assad propagandist for sure. She's wrong to boot! The parliament election was May 7 [WP]. Outsiders don't know that unless they look it up. The US called it "bordering on ludicrous," (see WP, and I'm not sure why the table there is blank) but it reportedly brought in the first ever coalition government with all opposition parties willing to participate (see below).

The SNC abstained on a platform of war only for Syria. (Or abject surrender, as demanded) So yeah, it didn't have the full spectrum.

And the lady would seem wrong. Nothing happened like that on May 24. Except the parliament so elected being sworn-in and electing speakers, and preparing to chart their way through the crisis. No Western media coverage of this ludicrous event I noticed. Chinese news was there.
http://english.cntv.cn/program/asiat...4/122858.shtml

Then, the next day ...

This kind of error, confusing starting work with being elected, is natural and if anything lends credibility and realism to the witness. Further investigation into this is warranted.

Was there a Mashlab elected to some high position? I think this Al-Mashlab appeared on state TV and said armed gangs killed his wife and children and his brother's larger family. I'd like to see the video if so. It would be another ringing denunciation of Assad's reform and democratization process, another obstacle to war and a full deep-till turnover of the whole country favored by the "pro-democracy activists" and their allies.

But it's bald propaganda, according to his apparent alleged nephew Ali Al-Sayed (from a big family mostly killed). He has his uncle on state TV the 26th saying armed gangs dunnit. But Ali himself, despite surviving the up-close slaughter, also witnessed his uncle hobnobbing with the Shahiba as if he had sent them.

Celebrating his swearing-in by having while whole traitorous family slaughtered?! This kind of maniac elected? Oh, we're past ludicrous now. About to time to call the whole charade off, huh? Only one thing will end the bloodshed, and that'll take years after the first NATO bomb falls, so we better get to it.

[Captain.Sassy]

Originally Posted by Virus

Your "evidence" comes from the brutal totalitarian state doing the killing. Were you born yesterday?

'Both sides' are lying. For whatever reason our media seems to only cast aspersions on information coming from the Syrian government or from Russia.

The Esprit de Corps article is interesting. It points out how false allegations of barbaric crimes have been used time and time again to justify war.

Yet somehow despite this history (and recent history too, such as what happened in Libya) any skepticism about the latest round of claims gets derided as 'conspiracy theory' or 'pro-fascism'.

[Virus]

How about the history of Stalinist police states staying in power for decades by lying, killing and feeding disinformation into the West through useful, duped idiots?

Syria learned from the best.

[JihadJane]

Some interesting historical context in this article:

'Russia and China Mull Syria ... and Saudi Arabia'

[Captain.Sassy]

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Some interesting historical context in this article:

'Russia and China Mull Syria ... and Saudi Arabia'

Interesting piece.

Here's something I found today:

Originally Posted by an FSA commander

As regards Sunni members of Mr Assad's Shabiha, the FSA has a simpler tactic. "There are many cases of Sunni joining the Shabiha in Aleppo," Haji al-Saleh noted. "There are two main Sunni families there, the Bari and Baqqarah, who have been supporting the regime. But now we've killed the heads of both families the situation is improving. Many Shabiha are coming to us to lay down their weapons."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226399120730

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by An FSA Commander

As regards Sunni members of Mr Assad's Shabiha, the FSA has a simpler tactic. "There are many cases of Sunni joining the Shabiha in Aleppo," Haji al-Saleh noted. "There are two main Sunni families there, the Bari and Baqqarah, who have been supporting the regime. But now we've killed the heads of both families the situation is improving. Many Shabiha are coming to us to lay down their weapons."

Can I re-post that again for emphasis? This is clearly another Assad propagandist working undercover. Please don't get your info from the dictator. If he was real FSA, it would show the regime is right, there's a rebel tactic of killing families or heads of them based on things like being Sunni yet still supporting the government.

The Al-Mashlab and Al-Sayed families were alleged to be just that. Despite what they told the world about the tragedy against Sunni opposition families in Taldou/Houla, did the situation for rebels there actually "improve" after the slaughter? Can we see the civil war coming to a head along ethnic lines, in slow motion? Possibly.

As the West moans about war (meaning resistance to the takeover instead of abject surrender), are they supporting, arming, and encouraging the side that seems to be methodically programming the future genocide that's bound to follow the war (or maybe even after the surrender at this point)?

[Darth Rotor]

I wasn't near the news for the last few days, took a break from all things electronic.

Is the fighting increasing in intensity or decreasing?

And how about the Russian ship with spare helicopter parts and repaired attack helicopters. Is that "stalled" at sea over the insurance withdrawal, or is it on the move again?

Any ideas?

[Captain.Sassy]

I thought the insurance cancellation was an interesting example of the fungibility of corporate/economic power, though the insurance company does say it revoked the ship's insurance because of a violation of the terms and not because of pressure from the UK government...

AFAIK it's still turned back.

Fighting intensity is generally up of late. UN monitors are going to stick around, apparently. The Syrian government says it will help/allow evacuation of Homs, but says the rebels are scuttling the evacuation; rebels, of course, say the opposite.

Paul Danahar's article 'The Intractable Syrian Conflict' or something like that is a reasonable read. He's no fan of Assad, and brings a more balanced perspective to what's going on than you usually get in the news.

Here ya go:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18420858

[Captain.Sassy]

Quote:

Foreign interests fuelling Syria conflict - UN observer head

Head of the UN Observer Mission in Syria Major General Robert Mood has said he believes foreign interests are fuelling the conflict in Syria by providing money and weapons.

However, he would not say whether Western countries were involved.

Maj Gen Mood said: ''We are pretty sure, through our dialogues, that there are supplies of both money and weapons and also presence of other parties on [the] ground.''

''They have not come from the villages in Syria. We believe we have seen parties from outside Syria contribute to the spiral of violence in a very non-constructive way.''

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0605/un-...-in-syria.html

Could be referencing Iran just as well as he could be referencing Saudi Arabia or foreign islamist fighters like this guy:

Quote:

"As chaos escalates, the regime will be weakened and so will the FSA," he said. "In the end, the people will join the jihadists."

Ghia is one of hundreds of foreign Sunni fighters said to have crossed Syria's borders to fight the Alawite-dominated regime.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226397802589

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by Captain.Sassy

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0605/un-...-in-syria.html

Could be referencing Iran just as well as he could be referencing Saudi Arabia or foreign islamist fighters like this guy:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226397802589

Yeah, Russian and Iranian militants... It's pretty clear what Mr. weird Mood refers to, but he has to be cryptic for some reason. Will the West latch onto the possibility the regime is bringing in foreigners to increase the violence? Probably not. Will they, can they, ignore his imprecise mumblings?

An interesting related allegation-via Thierry Meyssan, until I can track down a more primary source:

Quote:

In Turkey, opposition legislators have visited the Syrian refugee camps. They have confirmed the absence of more than one thousand refugees registered by the United Nations in the main camp and noted, by contrast, the presence of an arsenal in the camp. They have also demanded in Parliament that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan reveal the rising amount of humanitarian aid being given to phantom refugees. The deputies maintain that the refugee camp is a cover for a secret military operation, sheltering in reality combatants, principally Libyans who are using it as a rear base. The deputies are asserting that the combatants are those who were introduced in the district of Houla when the massacre was being perpetrated.

http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/thread-753542-1-1.html

6-7-800 estimated, one witness describes "thousands" of rebel fighters in Houla.

Another. Sorry, no equivalent article from CNN:
http://www.rt.com/news/syria-foreign...ts-terror-974/

Quote:

Consultant and peace activist Christoph R. Hörstel told RT that his information “is directly obtained from Syrian security personnel of various origins personally taking part in battles and other operations, and/or close relatives of such personnel – some are even well-known people".
“The information reaches me through a partner in Turkey. I counter-check all information obtained this way as best as possible under the circumstances,” Hörstel said.

Insurgents and terrorists are trying to infiltrate back to the lost strongholds in Hafeh and Idlib. They try to return from the rural areas, but face strong army resistance in these areas, plus in Homs and Hama. As the rebels lost most of their weapon stockpiles, they intend now to carry out terror attacks in civilian areas, using improvised bombs.

On the other hand, especially in Hafeh, it is understood that the insurgents are not capable of invading towns and town centers, even not in smaller villages. The only safe haven for the fighters seems to be right now Idlib's rural surroundings and forested stretches, reaching into the terror camps in neighboring Turkey.

Military deployment and logistic support operations are going on around town centers, rural villages close to cities are being shelled by the army, as soon as the presence of insurgents is verified.

After the capture of an ex-Guantanamo detainee in Homs as an alleged terror network mastermind, Syrian security is now researching this subject in-depth. In future, Syria may take some of these foreign elements to be dealt with in court under live TV coverage.

Some other captives mentioned are Portuguese and German. All difficult to verify, of course.

[Virus]

Thierry Meyssan is a 9/11 truther who says the Beslan massacre was orchestrated by the CIA.

Instead of listening to loons, don't listen to loons. Unfortunately loons and loon blogs are your bread and butter.

[Caustic Logic]

Yeah.

Hey, CS, CE, anyone else, nay-sayers, here's my proposal:
http://ciwclibya.org/syria.html

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Captain.Sassy

Could be referencing Iran just as well as he could be referencing Saudi Arabia or foreign islamist fighters like this guy:

John McCain mentions his Saudi buddies while fiddling this or the other "bomb bomb" tune:

Quote:

[...] “I’m glad that some of the nations in the Gulf, the Saudis, are providing some weapons [to the Syrian opposition],” the former conservative presidential candidate told CNN in an interview on Sunday.

McCain was arguing that the US should help the Syrian opposition with arms regardless of concerns over the presence of extremist forces among the anti-Assad groups, and that Washington would not be able to prevent them from laying their hands on arms. [...]

btw, Bahrain had a big party in the streets when the ghoulish Saudi crown prince died a couple of days ago. He was directing the invasion of the army to crush the (genuine mass) rebellion there.

Disgusting levels of hypocrisy.

edit: will take a look CL.

[Toontown]

So...McCain is now implicated in the Houla massacre?

Disgusting. Will the chain of blame-shame never end? How far does it go? How high does it reach?

[Mycroft]

Quote:

Consultant and peace activist Christoph R. Hörstel told RT that his information “is directly obtained from Syrian security personnel of various origins personally taking part in battles and other operations, and/or close relatives of such personnel – some are even well-known people".
“The information reaches me through a partner in Turkey. I counter-check all information obtained this way as best as possible under the circumstances,” Hörstel said.

This is basically an announcement of the guys biases. He's not a journalist, he's a "peace activist" who apparently believes the best way to achieve peace is to support the Assad regime.

Oh look! He even runs a pro-Sryia blog.

http://syria-help.blogspot.de/

[Childlike Empress]

He has a career in mainstream journalism but first of all is an Afghanistan expert going back to the 80s with more connections than a switchboard. He briefed the German troops post 9/11 about the local situation, for example. But by now he is persona non grata in the German mainstream media because he doesn't drink the war on terror kool-aid. He also spent time in Syria recently, traveled the country like a couple of other German independent journalists. Certainly not "unbiased", but professional - on his website you can see that he tries to persuade the Syrian Government to let him make their PR/Propaganda in Western media. He's outraged about their incompetence and says they can't grasp how important the "Infowar" is today. He says they are completely sure that "the truth will prevail", period. Actually quite funny and I agree that they absolutely suck at Propaganda.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

He has a career in mainstream journalism but first of all is an Afghanistan expert going back to the 80s with more connections than a switchboard. He briefed the German troops post 9/11 about the local situation, for example. But by now he is persona non grata in the German mainstream media because he doesn't drink the war on terror kool-aid. He also spent time in Syria recently, traveled the country like a couple of other German independent journalists. Certainly not "unbiased", but professional - on his website you can see that he tries to persuade the Syrian Government to let him make their PR/Propaganda in Western media. He's outraged about their incompetence and says they can't grasp how important the "Infowar" is today. He says they are completely sure that "the truth will prevail", period. Actually quite funny and I agree that they absolutely suck at Propaganda.

Since he's a truther and a Lord Haw-Haw for Syrian fascist totalitarianism, I'd hope that he's a person-non-grata in the German media.

Thanks for setting the record straight though. TrustbutVerfiy was right. You aren't duped by evil. You support evil because it's evil. Looks like I owe him five bucks.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Virus

I wonder if you would be so willing to support evil if you had to live under it.

People like me and the rest of the rational bunch don't think in terms like "evil", Crusader.

[Virus]

A survivor of the Nazi death camps once said that a man who refuses to see evil is a man who isn't worth knowing.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Virus

Thanks for setting the record straight though. TrustbutVerfiy was right. You aren't duped by evil. You support evil because it's evil. Looks like I owe him five bucks.

Just for the record in case there is a third version following.

[Virus]

Didn't that guy say that Angela Merkel is guilty of treason for supporting Israel?

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

This is basically an announcement of the guys biases. He's not a journalist, he's a "peace activist" who apparently believes the best way to achieve peace is to support the Assad regime.

Oh look! He even runs a pro-Sryia blog.

http://syria-help.blogspot.de/

Would you distrust someone latching onto unfounded activist claims promoting war, if they also had a website dedicated to taking down "tyrants" who've been targeted by the West's foreign policy establishment? Sure you would, because that's our baseline national/Western mentality. Someone with the opposite viewpoint should be valued as a counterweight or balance, however small. Instead they're dismissed for having some "bias" and have to go to non-Western or non-mainstream news outlets to even be heard.

Shame on us for that.

I agree, he's got a bias towards peace which, in this case, favors the Syrian government as well as a (lot, unsure %) of its people. It also goes against the wishes of the false-flagging extremist child-slashers. I favor them not being put in charge of Syria, so that's my bias too. That could motivate someone to lie about contacts and info or accept lies or errors, as you suggest. It could also motivate him to seek out truth to build a solid foundation for peace.

Just because someone's bias differs from yours doesn't mean they're wicked people rotten to the core, incapable of truth and only able to build their case on a crooked pile of falsehoods. That comes a lot closer to describing the corporate-controlled mainstream news on Syria, in my opinion. But even that isn't so simple and clear, and it remains best to go case-by-case based on the information.

[Virus]

If you support fascist totalitarianism, then yes, you are rotten to the core.

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by Virus

A survivor of the Nazi death camps once said that a man who refuses to see evil is a man who isn't worth knowing.

Virus: This thread is about the evil plaguing Syria lately, that's not been examined well enough yet. It's an unsolved crime, even as the gallows are hastily built. How is it you magically know where the evil is coming from again? A whole lotta trust in warmongering corporatist propaganda that kinda looks like "the truth" now by sheer pervasiveness. No skepticism, no details, no discussion, just crusading propaganda robot action. You've been well-programmed.

This could devolve further. Can we stick to the topics at hand. You've addressed none yet aside from your reasons to ignore just about every salient alleged fact we should be considering or ruling out on their own merits. This is less than invaluable and you go on well deserved ignore. I have and need only one reason for that - you.

ETA: No ignore button? Whatever - when I ignore you, which is unless you ever say something of value, that's why.

[Virus]

I know that Syria is a totalitarian state sponsor of terrorism and a client of an even larger totalitarian state sponsor of terrorism. I know that both these filthy regimes have held onto power for decades by lying and killing.

That's Syria 101 for you. Do you know this or don't you?