The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy - Page 79

Astreja · 18th June 2012, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

Speaking of Egypt, there is another prophecy also recorded in Ezekiel that I would like to share with you: "and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt (Ezek 30:13, KJV)." Twenty-five hundred years have passed since this prophecy, and during this period of time not one of its numerous ruling princes were Egyptian! This would be similar to my predicting that their would never again be an American elected President of the United States, and having it actually come true.

DOC, this sounds like mere semantics. Did Egypt cease having princes? Yes. Did they stop having rulers? No, they did not. Did they stop being a nation? No.

A sovereign nation changing its system of government is not exactly what I would call solid evidence for divine prophesy.

DOC · 18th June 2012, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Was there ever another Prince in Egypt after the Prophecy, DOC?

If there was, then the prophecy has failed.

If Obama was born in Kenya he is technically not of the land of America, even though he is an American president. He would technically be of the land of Kenya.

Egypt at one time was a very powerful nation. But remember it was ruled by the Romans, Arabs (Muslims), and British for many years.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

If Obama was born in Kenya he is technically not of the land of America, even though he is an American president, he is of the land of Kenya.

DOC, are you really going to try and claim that Obama isn't an American.

Really???

Do you not care at all how absurd your arguments are?

This is at least as ridiculous as claiming that Tyre isn't there.

Originally Posted by DOC

Egypt at one time was a very powerful nation.

You don't say.

Originally Posted by DOC

But remember it was ruled by the Romans, Arabs (Muslims), and British for many years.

Did Egypt ever have another ruling prince after the prophecy was made?

Yes or no, DOC?

DOC · 18th June 2012, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Astreja

DOC, this sounds like...

Your post implies I made the quote which would be false. Here is the full post:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...83#post8381383

joobz · 18th June 2012, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

Your post implies I made the quote which would be false. Here is the full post:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...83#post8381383

this post implies that you don't wish to answer Astreja's questions, but would rather harp on something completely inane and stupid.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 09:12 PM

Why does this "prophecy" only consist of half of one very carefully cherry-picked verse, DOC?

Ezekiel 30:100-19

¹⁰Thus saith the Lord God; I will also make the multitude of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon.

¹¹ e and his people with him, the terrible of the nations, shall be brought to destroy the land: and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain.

¹²And I will make the rivers dry, and sell the land into the hand of the wicked: and I will make the land waste, and all that is therein, by the hand of strangers: I the Lord have spoken it.

¹³Thus saith the Lord God; I will also destroy the idols, and I will cause their images to cease out of Noph; and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt: and I will put a fear in the land of Egypt.

¹⁴And I will make Pathros desolate, and will set fire in Zoan, and will execute judgments in No.

¹⁵And I will pour my fury upon Sin, the strength of Egypt; and I will cut off the multitude of No.

¹⁶And I will set fire in Egypt: Sin shall have great pain, and No shall be rent asunder, and Noph shall have distresses daily.

¹⁷The young men of Aven and of Pibeseth shall fall by the sword: and these cities shall go into captivity.

¹⁸At Tehaphnehes also the day shall be darkened, when I shall break there the yokes of Egypt: and the pomp of her strength shall cease in her: as for her, a cloud shall cover her, and her daughters shall go into captivity.

¹⁹Thus will I execute judgments in Egypt: and they shall know that I am the Lord

DOC · 18th June 2012, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

DOC, are you really going to try and claim that Obama isn't an American.

Really???

Strawman, but if he wasn't born in the US, then according to the US Constitution, he would be ineligible to be president.

joobz · 18th June 2012, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

Strawman, but if he wasn't born in the US, then according to the US Constitution, he would be ineligible to be president.

If you made logical arguments, your posts would be meaningful.

DOC · 18th June 2012, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Why does this "prophecy" only consist of half of one very carefully cherry-picked verse, DOC?

Ezekiel 30:100-19

¹⁰Thus saith the Lord God; I will also make the multitude of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon.

¹¹ e and his people with him, the terrible of the nations, shall be brought to destroy the land: and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain.

¹²And I will make the rivers dry, and sell the land into the hand of the wicked: and I will make the land waste, and all that is therein, by the hand of strangers: I the Lord have spoken it.

¹³Thus saith the Lord God; I will also destroy the idols, and I will cause their images to cease out of Noph; and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt: and I will put a fear in the land of Egypt.

¹⁴And I will make Pathros desolate, and will set fire in Zoan, and will execute judgments in No.

¹⁵And I will pour my fury upon Sin, the strength of Egypt; and I will cut off the multitude of No.

¹⁶And I will set fire in Egypt: Sin shall have great pain, and No shall be rent asunder, and Noph shall have distresses daily.

¹⁷The young men of Aven and of Pibeseth shall fall by the sword: and these cities shall go into captivity.

¹⁸At Tehaphnehes also the day shall be darkened, when I shall break there the yokes of Egypt: and the pomp of her strength shall cease in her: as for her, a cloud shall cover her, and her daughters shall go into captivity.

¹⁹Thus will I execute judgments in Egypt: and they shall know that I am the Lord

http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/Hos...f/Cherries.jpg

We've already been over the above many times, I was talking about princes in post 3119:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...83#post8381383

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

Originally Posted by Astreja

DOC, this sounds like...

Your post implies I made the quote which would be false. Here is the full post:

You brought the quote into the discussion to support your inane argument, you own it.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

We've already been over the above many times, I was talking about princes.

You just tried to tell Astreja that it wasn't you talking at all.

In any case, you are wrong about the prince thing and you are guilty of cherry picking half of a single verse to try and support yet another of your ridiculous claims that, as you point out yourself, has already been dealt with many times.

Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Egypt. Deal with it.

DOC · 18th June 2012, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Egypt. Deal with it.

I have given many posts about Nebu and Egypt, I'm not repeating them, we are talking about princes. The link to the prince post is in post 3129.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

We've already been over the above many times, I was talking about princes in post 3119:

I know exactly what you're taking about. What will you try next - posting single words and saying because those words appear in the dictionary the prophecy has been fulfilled?

joobz · 18th June 2012, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

I have many posts about Nebu and Egypt,

Yes you did. And all of them failed to change the fact that Neb didn't destroy egypt.

Originally Posted by DOC

I'm not repeating them,

smart. I wouldn't want to repeat bad arguments either.

Originally Posted by DOC

we are talking about princes.

No, you are talking about princes.
others are pointing out that you are cherry picking.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

I have given many posts about Nebu and Egypt. . .

And you were wrong in every single one of them.

Originally Posted by DOC

I'm not repeating them . . .

Except that that's exactly what you're doing.

Originally Posted by DOC

. . . we are talking about princes.

Then why aren't you answering my question about them?

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Did Egypt ever have another ruling prince after the prophecy was made?

Yes or no, DOC?

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

I have given many posts about Nebu and Egypt, I'm not repeating them, we are talking about princes.

Are you trying to claim that half verses count as complete prophecies?

Why stop there? Why don't phrases like "And I will pour" or single words like "destroy" count as discrete prophecies?

Originally Posted by DOC

The link to the prince post is in post 3129.

I hardly need you to tell me how to navigate my thread.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 09:42 PM

Ezekiel 26

⁴And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

⁵It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.

Astreja · 18th June 2012, 09:49 PM

DOC, the quoted prophesy is a failure. The idols of Egypt did not get destroyed. The land was not laid waste. Egypt is still there.

Quibbling about 'princes' in this context is like pointing at a nicely-printed $ sign on a bill of sale that's out by millions of dollars.

Lucian · 18th June 2012, 10:05 PM

I find myself fascinated by this statement from DOC's dumb source:

Quote:

Specific prophesies are conspicuously absent from the 26 other religious books that claim to be scripture....

I didn't realize that there* were exactly 26 religious books that "claim to be scripture." Does Voluspa count? That has specific prophecies. Granted, a wolf hasn't eaten the sun yet, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

*Or "their," as the same dumb source would say.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 10:07 PM

Thus saith the Lord God; I will also destroy the idols . . .

Astreja · 18th June 2012, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lucian

I didn't realize that there* were exactly 26 religious books that "claim to be scripture." Does Voluspa count? That has specific prophecies. Granted, a wolf hasn't eaten the sun yet, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

Hey, who needs the wolf? We've got Gimli, which is also mentioned in Vóluspá. I know it exists because I've been there Myself. Several times.

In fact, the next time I drive up to Gimli for the Icelandic Festival, I think I'll take along a handful of gold-painted checkers and chess pieces. If I drop them in the grass near the Viking Village and someone finds them, it'll fulfill another Vóluspá prophesy and augment the truthiness of Norse scripture. Hail Oðinn!

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 10:46 PM

. . .and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt

Craig B · 18th June 2012, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

If Obama was born in Kenya he is technically not of the land of America, even though he is an American president. He would technically be of the land of Kenya.

If my aunt had balls she'd technically be my uncle. Obama wasn't born in Kenya. And the fact that his father was, doesn't mean that the USA has become a colony of Kenya.

Quote:

Egypt at one time was a very powerful nation. But remember it was ruled by the Romans, Arabs (Muslims), and British for many years.

By that absurd standard, England was ruled by Germans throughout almost the whole period that it was world hegemon, insofar as its reigning dynasty since 1714 originated as petty warlords from Hanover.

Anyway your list is not complete. Of "Arabs (Muslims)" who ruled Egypt, the Mamluks were

Quote:

predominantly Cuman or Kipchak and later Circassian and Georgian.

according to wiki, and they ruled Egypt for a very long time. Saladin was a Kurd, and Mehmet Ali was born in Greece to Albanian parents and was an officer in the Turkish army, to name other famous rulers of that land. But I suppose to you one "Arab (Muslim)" is much like another, by reason of being hell-bound infidels.

Wildy · 18th June 2012, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/Hos.../TyreBeach.jpg

Ezekiel 26

⁴And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

⁵It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.

You know he could have had a stronger argument if he'd spoken about the prophecy regarding the destruction of Babylon instead of Tyre. But then he'd have to explain away things like who destroyed it and why you can't see dancing goat-demons there.

zooterkin · 18th June 2012, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

Strawman, but if he wasn't born in the US, then according to the US Constitution, he would be ineligible to be president.

Well, unsurprisingly, you appear to be incorrect on this point too, irrelevant to the current discussion though it is. The phrase in the Constitution is "natural born citizen", and the current interpretation is that it would include people born outside the territory of the US to US citizens.

And yet, regardless of where he was born, if he was president, he would be the President of the United States.*

* ETA: This is of course leaving aside the fact that your quibble about 'of' is based on a translation, and clearly you've learnt nothing about that, either, despite having had some excellent posts about it from some very knowledgeable members.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 11:14 PM

And I will make the rivers dry . . .

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 11:29 PM

. . . and I will make the land waste, and all that is therein.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 11:31 PM

I don't know what I'm doing wrong here but I can't seem to get the captions to match the pictures.

Little help, DOC?

pakeha · 18th June 2012, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/Hos.../Ptolemies.jpg

. . .and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt

Well, DOC, it looks to me like there were princes in Egypt after that prophecy was made.
What do you think?

Craig B · 18th June 2012, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by pakeha

Well, DOC, it looks to me like there were princes in Egypt after that prophecy was made.
What do you think?

Dynasty of Greek origin, so doesn't count, presumably. British dynasty of German origin. Previous English dynasty of Scottish origin. One before that of Welsh origin. So England has had no "princes" since 1485, by that reasoning. Yet there's swarms of them, as far as I can see.

pakeha · 18th June 2012, 11:51 PM

Let's ponder that one over drinks at my favourite non-existent beach resort.

Akhenaten · 18th June 2012, 11:53 PM

Thus will I execute judgments in Egypt: and they shall know that I am the Lord (Ezekiel 30:19)

Right idea, wrong god.

Should we give Sir Zeke half points for this one?

Toontown · 19th June 2012, 12:01 AM

Yeah. What are the odds that the last book of the Bible would miss the Second Coming by two millenia!

Well...pretty good, actually. And then three millenia, and then four, and then...

But it's all a big misunderstanding. He does, in fact, come quickly. When He comes. And all these things must shortly come to pass. Someday. It's just a matter of getting your semantics right. That's the important thing. Truth follows semantics.

Akhenaten · 19th June 2012, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

If Obama was born in Kenya he is technically not of the land of America, even though he is an American president, he is of the land of Kenya.

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

DOC, are you really going to try and claim that Obama isn't an American?

Originally Posted by DOC

Strawman, but if he wasn't born in the US, then according to the US Constitution, he would be ineligible to be president.

Nothing like an each-way bet, eh DOC?

Oystein · 19th June 2012, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Craig B

... British dynasty of German origin. ... So England has had no "princes" since 1485, by that reasoning. Yet there's swarms of them, as far as I can see.

We Germans certainly don't see then as German any longer, the Brits can keep them. Please.

DOC · 19th June 2012, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by pakeha

Well, DOC, it looks to me like there were princes in Egypt after that prophecy was made.
What do you think?

Where were they born and are you saying a prince during the Roman empire when the Romans were in charge had any power?

The verse says this:

"and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt"

It says of the land of Egypt, not in the land of Egypt. And that verse implies the prince will have real power.

Mashuna · 19th June 2012, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

Where were they born and are you saying a prince during the Roman empire when the Romans were in charge had any power?

The verse says this:

"and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt"

It says of the land of Egypt, not in the land of Egypt. And that verse implies the prince will have real power.

Do you want to tell Prince Charles that he's not really the Prince of Wales, or shall I?

DOC · 19th June 2012, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/Hos.../TyreBeach.jpg

Ezekiel 26

⁴And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

⁵It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.

Already been discussed many times; you should read the thread.

Mashuna · 19th June 2012, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

Already been discussed many times, read the thread.

I've read the thread, it seems to be missing either a reasonable answer from you, or an admission of failure.

Akhenaten · 19th June 2012, 12:37 AM

I can't help but think there's something even more wrong about this whole exchange than I'd first thought.

This objection to my mentioning Nebuchadnezzar makes absolutely no sense:

Originally Posted by DOC

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Egypt. Deal with it.

I have given many posts about Nebu and Egypt, I'm not repeating them, we are talking about princes. The link to the prince post is in post 3129.

Unless, that is, DOC didn't even realise that the verse fragment quoted in Post #3129 was actually part of the larger Nebuchadnezzar prophecy.

Is that what happened, DOC?

If so . . .

18th June 2012, 08:55 PM	#3122
DOC Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 7,741	Originally Posted by Akhenaten Was there ever another Prince in Egypt after the Prophecy, DOC? If there was, then the prophecy has failed. If Obama was born in Kenya he is technically not of the land of America, even though he is an American president. He would technically be of the land of Kenya. Egypt at one time was a very powerful nation. But remember it was ruled by the Romans, Arabs (Muslims), and British for many years.
	Last edited by DOC; 18th June 2012 at 09:01 PM.

18th June 2012, 09:03 PM	#3123
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	Originally Posted by DOC If Obama was born in Kenya he is technically not of the land of America, even though he is an American president, he is of the land of Kenya. DOC, are you really going to try and claim that Obama isn't an American. Really??? Do you not care at all how absurd your arguments are? This is at least as ridiculous as claiming that Tyre isn't there. Originally Posted by DOC Egypt at one time was a very powerful nation. You don't say. Originally Posted by DOC But remember it was ruled by the Romans, Arabs (Muslims), and British for many years. Did Egypt ever have another ruling prince after the prophecy was made? Yes or no, DOC?
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18th June 2012, 09:11 PM	#3125
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,493	Originally Posted by DOC Your post implies I made the quote which would be false. Here is the full post: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...83#post8381383 this post implies that you don't wish to answer Astreja's questions, but would rather harp on something completely inane and stupid.
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18th June 2012, 09:12 PM	#3126
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	Why does this "prophecy" only consist of half of one very carefully cherry-picked verse, DOC? Ezekiel 30:100-19 ¹⁰Thus saith the Lord God; I will also make the multitude of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon. ¹¹ e and his people with him, the terrible of the nations, shall be brought to destroy the land: and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain. ¹²And I will make the rivers dry, and sell the land into the hand of the wicked: and I will make the land waste, and all that is therein, by the hand of strangers: I the Lord have spoken it. ¹³Thus saith the Lord God; I will also destroy the idols, and I will cause their images to cease out of Noph; and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt: and I will put a fear in the land of Egypt. ¹⁴And I will make Pathros desolate, and will set fire in Zoan, and will execute judgments in No. ¹⁵And I will pour my fury upon Sin, the strength of Egypt; and I will cut off the multitude of No. ¹⁶And I will set fire in Egypt: Sin shall have great pain, and No shall be rent asunder, and Noph shall have distresses daily. ¹⁷The young men of Aven and of Pibeseth shall fall by the sword: and these cities shall go into captivity. ¹⁸At Tehaphnehes also the day shall be darkened, when I shall break there the yokes of Egypt: and the pomp of her strength shall cease in her: as for her, a cloud shall cover her, and her daughters shall go into captivity. ¹⁹Thus will I execute judgments in Egypt: and they shall know that I am the Lord
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

18th June 2012, 09:15 PM	#3128
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,493	Originally Posted by DOC Strawman, but if he wasn't born in the US, then according to the US Constitution, he would be ineligible to be president. If you made logical arguments, your posts would be meaningful.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

18th June 2012, 08:54 PM	#3121
Astreja Springy Goddess Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 971	Originally Posted by DOC Speaking of Egypt, there is another prophecy also recorded in Ezekiel that I would like to share with you: "and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt (Ezek 30:13, KJV)." Twenty-five hundred years have passed since this prophecy, and during this period of time not one of its numerous ruling princes were Egyptian! This would be similar to my predicting that their would never again be an American elected President of the United States, and having it actually come true. DOC, this sounds like mere semantics. Did Egypt cease having princes? Yes. Did they stop having rulers? No, they did not. Did they stop being a nation? No. A sovereign nation changing its system of government is not exactly what I would call solid evidence for divine prophesy.

18th June 2012, 09:08 PM	#3124
DOC Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 7,741	Originally Posted by Astreja DOC, this sounds like... Your post implies I made the quote which would be false. Here is the full post: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...83#post8381383

18th June 2012, 09:12 PM	#3127
DOC Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 7,741	Originally Posted by Akhenaten DOC, are you really going to try and claim that Obama isn't an American. Really??? Strawman, but if he wasn't born in the US, then according to the US Constitution, he would be ineligible to be president.

18th June 2012, 09:15 PM	#3129
DOC Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 7,741	Originally Posted by Akhenaten Why does this "prophecy" only consist of half of one very carefully cherry-picked verse, DOC? Ezekiel 30:100-19 ¹⁰Thus saith the Lord God; I will also make the multitude of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon. ¹¹ e and his people with him, the terrible of the nations, shall be brought to destroy the land: and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain. ¹²And I will make the rivers dry, and sell the land into the hand of the wicked: and I will make the land waste, and all that is therein, by the hand of strangers: I the Lord have spoken it. ¹³Thus saith the Lord God; I will also destroy the idols, and I will cause their images to cease out of Noph; and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt: and I will put a fear in the land of Egypt. ¹⁴And I will make Pathros desolate, and will set fire in Zoan, and will execute judgments in No. ¹⁵And I will pour my fury upon Sin, the strength of Egypt; and I will cut off the multitude of No. ¹⁶And I will set fire in Egypt: Sin shall have great pain, and No shall be rent asunder, and Noph shall have distresses daily. ¹⁷The young men of Aven and of Pibeseth shall fall by the sword: and these cities shall go into captivity. ¹⁸At Tehaphnehes also the day shall be darkened, when I shall break there the yokes of Egypt: and the pomp of her strength shall cease in her: as for her, a cloud shall cover her, and her daughters shall go into captivity. ¹⁹Thus will I execute judgments in Egypt: and they shall know that I am the Lord http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/Hos...f/Cherries.jpg We've already been over the above many times, I was talking about princes in post 3119: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...83#post8381383
	Last edited by DOC; 18th June 2012 at 09:21 PM.

18th June 2012, 09:15 PM	#3130
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	Originally Posted by DOC Originally Posted by Astreja DOC, this sounds like... Your post implies I made the quote which would be false. Here is the full post: You brought the quote into the discussion to support your inane argument, you own it.
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18th June 2012, 09:20 PM	#3131
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	Originally Posted by DOC We've already been over the above many times, I was talking about princes. You just tried to tell Astreja that it wasn't you talking at all. In any case, you are wrong about the prince thing and you are guilty of cherry picking half of a single verse to try and support yet another of your ridiculous claims that, as you point out yourself, has already been dealt with many times. Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Egypt. Deal with it.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

18th June 2012, 09:24 PM	#3132
DOC Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 7,741	Originally Posted by Akhenaten Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Egypt. Deal with it. I have given many posts about Nebu and Egypt, I'm not repeating them, we are talking about princes. The link to the prince post is in post 3129.
	Last edited by DOC; 18th June 2012 at 09:27 PM.

18th June 2012, 09:25 PM	#3133
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	Originally Posted by DOC We've already been over the above many times, I was talking about princes in post 3119: I know exactly what you're taking about. What will you try next - posting single words and saying because those words appear in the dictionary the prophecy has been fulfilled?
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18th June 2012, 09:27 PM	#3134
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,493	Originally Posted by DOC I have many posts about Nebu and Egypt, Yes you did. And all of them failed to change the fact that Neb didn't destroy egypt. Originally Posted by DOC I'm not repeating them, smart. I wouldn't want to repeat bad arguments either. Originally Posted by DOC we are talking about princes. No, you are talking about princes. others are pointing out that you are cherry picking.
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18th June 2012, 09:30 PM	#3135
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	Originally Posted by DOC I have given many posts about Nebu and Egypt. . . And you were wrong in every single one of them. Originally Posted by DOC I'm not repeating them . . . Except that that's exactly what you're doing. Originally Posted by DOC . . . we are talking about princes. Then why aren't you answering my question about them? Originally Posted by Akhenaten Did Egypt ever have another ruling prince after the prophecy was made? Yes or no, DOC?
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18th June 2012, 09:35 PM	#3136
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	Originally Posted by DOC I have given many posts about Nebu and Egypt, I'm not repeating them, we are talking about princes. Are you trying to claim that half verses count as complete prophecies? Why stop there? Why don't phrases like "And I will pour" or single words like "destroy" count as discrete prophecies? Originally Posted by DOC The link to the prince post is in post 3129. I hardly need you to tell me how to navigate my thread.
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18th June 2012, 09:42 PM	#3137
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	Ezekiel 26 ⁴And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock. ⁵It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.
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18th June 2012, 09:49 PM	#3138
Astreja Springy Goddess Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 971	DOC, the quoted prophesy is a failure. The idols of Egypt did not get destroyed. The land was not laid waste. Egypt is still there. Quibbling about 'princes' in this context is like pointing at a nicely-printed $ sign on a bill of sale that's out by millions of dollars.

18th June 2012, 10:05 PM	#3139
Lucian Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,545	I find myself fascinated by this statement from DOC's dumb source: Quote: Specific prophesies are conspicuously absent from the 26 other religious books that claim to be scripture.... I didn't realize that there* were exactly 26 religious books that "claim to be scripture." Does Voluspa count? That has specific prophecies. Granted, a wolf hasn't eaten the sun yet, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. *Or "their," as the same dumb source would say.
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18th June 2012, 10:07 PM	#3140
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	*Thus saith the Lord God; I will also destroy the idols . . .*
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18th June 2012, 10:43 PM	#3141
Astreja Springy Goddess Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 971	Originally Posted by Lucian I didn't realize that there* were exactly 26 religious books that "claim to be scripture." Does Voluspa count? That has specific prophecies. Granted, a wolf hasn't eaten the sun yet, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Hey, who needs the wolf? We've got Gimli, which is also mentioned in Vóluspá. I know it exists because I've been there Myself. Several times. In fact, the next time I drive up to Gimli for the Icelandic Festival, I think I'll take along a handful of gold-painted checkers and chess pieces. If I drop them in the grass near the Viking Village and someone finds them, it'll fulfill another Vóluspá prophesy and augment the truthiness of Norse scripture. Hail Oðinn!

18th June 2012, 10:46 PM	#3142
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	*. . .and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt*
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18th June 2012, 10:48 PM	#3143
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,883	Originally Posted by DOC If Obama was born in Kenya he is technically not of the land of America, even though he is an American president. He would technically be of the land of Kenya. If my aunt had balls she'd technically be my uncle. Obama wasn't born in Kenya. And the fact that his father was, doesn't mean that the USA has become a colony of Kenya. Quote: Egypt at one time was a very powerful nation. But remember it was ruled by the Romans, Arabs (Muslims), and British for many years. By that absurd standard, England was ruled by Germans throughout almost the whole period that it was world hegemon, insofar as its reigning dynasty since 1714 originated as petty warlords from Hanover. Anyway your list is not complete. Of "Arabs (Muslims)" who ruled Egypt, the Mamluks were Quote: predominantly Cuman or Kipchak and later Circassian and Georgian. according to wiki, and they ruled Egypt for a very long time. Saladin was a Kurd, and Mehmet Ali was born in Greece to Albanian parents and was an officer in the Turkish army, to name other famous rulers of that land. But I suppose to you one "Arab (Muslim)" is much like another, by reason of being hell-bound infidels.
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18th June 2012, 10:57 PM	#3144
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia, not that you'll read the "location" field. Posts: 9,921	Originally Posted by Akhenaten http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/Hos.../TyreBeach.jpg Ezekiel 26 ⁴And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock. ⁵It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations. You know he could have had a stronger argument if he'd spoken about the prophecy regarding the destruction of Babylon instead of Tyre. But then he'd have to explain away things like who destroyed it and why you can't see dancing goat-demons there.
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18th June 2012, 11:02 PM	#3145
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 24,556	Originally Posted by DOC Strawman, but if he wasn't born in the US, then according to the US Constitution, he would be ineligible to be president. Well, unsurprisingly, you appear to be incorrect on this point too, irrelevant to the current discussion though it is. The phrase in the Constitution is "natural born citizen", and the current interpretation is that it would include people born outside the territory of the US to US citizens. And yet, regardless of where he was born, if he was president, he would be the President of the United States.* * ETA: This is of course leaving aside the fact that your quibble about 'of' is based on a translation, and clearly you've learnt nothing about that, either, despite having had some excellent posts about it from some very knowledgeable members.
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18th June 2012, 11:14 PM	#3146
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	*And I will make the rivers dry . . .*
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18th June 2012, 11:29 PM	#3147
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	*. . . and I will make the land waste, and all that is therein.*
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18th June 2012, 11:31 PM	#3148
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	I don't know what I'm doing wrong here but I can't seem to get the captions to match the pictures. Little help, DOC?
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18th June 2012, 11:32 PM	#3149
pakeha Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7,968	Originally Posted by Akhenaten http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/Hos.../Ptolemies.jpg *. . .and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt* Well, DOC, it looks to me like there were princes in Egypt after that prophecy was made. What do you think?
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18th June 2012, 11:42 PM	#3150
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,883	Originally Posted by pakeha Well, DOC, it looks to me like there were princes in Egypt after that prophecy was made. What do you think? Dynasty of Greek origin, so doesn't count, presumably. British dynasty of German origin. Previous English dynasty of Scottish origin. One before that of Welsh origin. So England has had no "princes" since 1485, by that reasoning. Yet there's swarms of them, as far as I can see.
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18th June 2012, 11:51 PM	#3151
pakeha Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7,968	Let's ponder that one over drinks at my favourite non-existent beach resort.
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18th June 2012, 11:53 PM	#3152
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	*Thus will I execute judgments in Egypt: and they shall know that I am the Lord (Ezekiel 30:19)* Right idea, wrong god. Should we give Sir Zeke half points for this one?
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19th June 2012, 12:01 AM	#3153
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,555	Yeah. What are the odds that the last book of the Bible would miss the Second Coming by two millenia! Well...pretty good, actually. And then three millenia, and then four, and then... But it's all a big misunderstanding. He does, in fact, come quickly. When He comes. And all these things must shortly come to pass. Someday. It's just a matter of getting your semantics right. That's the important thing. Truth follows semantics.
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19th June 2012, 12:03 AM	#3154
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,641	Originally Posted by DOC If Obama was born in Kenya he is technically not of the land of America, even though he is an American president, he is of the land of Kenya. Originally Posted by Akhenaten DOC, are you really going to try and claim that Obama isn't an American? Originally Posted by DOC Strawman, but if he wasn't born in the US, then according to the US Constitution, he would be ineligible to be president. Nothing like an each-way bet, eh DOC?
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19th June 2012, 12:07 AM	#3155
Oystein Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 9,738	Originally Posted by Craig B ... British dynasty of German origin. ... So England has had no "princes" since 1485, by that reasoning. Yet there's swarms of them, as far as I can see. We Germans certainly don't see then as German any longer, the Brits can keep them. Please.