Microsoft Unveils 'Surface' Tablet PC

[WildCat]

At a Los Angeles press conference:

Quote:

Microsoft took a bold step into the tablet market on Monday with the unveiling of a computer aimed squarely at bettering Apple's market-leading iPad.

The computer, called Surface, will be available in two versions. One will run the Windows 8 Pro operating system and the other will be based on Windows RT, a new version of Windows designed to run on the ARM family of processors that are predominant in the tablet market.

"It's something new, something different, a whole new family of computing devices from Microsoft," said Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft, at a Los Angeles news conference.

The machine has a 10.6-inch, widescreen, high-definition display and comes with a 3-millimeter-thick, pressure-sensitive cover that doubles as a keyboard.

Current specifications call for the Windows RT version to be slightly thinner but slightly heavier than Apple's latest iPad, although Microsoft notes the size and weight of the device could change once mass production begins.

So, will it be another MS bust like the Zune, or a serious competitor to the iPad?

And when will Apple file a lawsuit against it?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally Posted by WildCat

So, will it be another MS bust like the Zune, or a serious competitor to the iPad?

Given that they keep insisting on offer multiple versions of Windows, I'd lean toward the former.

[TheL8Elvis]

Originally Posted by WildCat

At a Los Angeles press conference:

So, will it be another MS bust like the Zune, or a serious competitor to the iPad?

And when will Apple file a lawsuit against it?

Zune ..

[The Dark Lord]

I dunno. I will pobably get one if they get good reviews. I hope it is better than the iPad. I did finally give in and order an iPad despite my disdain for Apple, just today.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

I hope it is better than the iPad.

Pretty much impossible.

[DavidJames]

It will be interesting to see how they develop the business model. The Apple eco-system provide plenty of margin and flexibility.

[The Dark Lord]

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Pretty much impossible.

Apple does have a pretty fanatical following which means a lot of people will buy their products which means that a lot of developers will develop for them which means that a lot of good apps. Which is the reason I bought one, even though I don't really like Apple. There really isn't anything special about iOS.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

Apple does have a pretty fanatical following which means a lot of people will buy their products which means that a lot of developers will develop for them which means that a lot of good apps. Which is the reason I bought one, even though I don't really like Apple. There really isn't anything special about iOS.

Other than being superior to the others, no there's nothing special about it.

[The Dark Lord]

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Other than being superior to the others, no there's nothing special about it.

As an operating system, iOS5 is inferior to Android 4.0. It does have a much better selection of tablet apps though.

[Moon-Spinner]

I see these iPads and clones as primarily for the mass market population which just want something to do the basics (email, surf the web). People I know that bought the Apple ipad were frustrated by the things they couldn't do on it (but still happy with the small size and ability to do the basics).

I thought I would wait to see what other pads would come out over the next few years. I would want a pad that I could have more control over it's functionality and software that I would want to use. I knew Windows 8 was design for the tablet market (but didn't know that Microsoft was developing its own tablet at that time), and I see this as a good step toward achieving what I and other users would be looking for.

[Daald]

I will definitely be getting one. I'm probably going to wait for the x86 model over the ARM model though.

[elgarak]

So.... It has a built-in stand, and comes with an external keyboard. Microsoft seems to think that people like to put it on a desk in front of them.

Excuse me, but we already have such products. They're called laptops. The whole point of a tablet is to be able to NOT put it down. To use it standing, or while chillaxing on the couch. To step back from that and go halfway back to the laptop shows how massively ignorant Microsoft is.

Microsoft has a tremendous case of Apple-envy. Apple does, Microsoft calls "me too, me too". In the past, with catastrophic results (Zune). What Microsoft should do is to concentrate on their core-business, which is software. Apple already has the hardware, write some *********** software for it. Office for the iPad would be a much better step than this ****. Not that I care much for Office for iPad anymore, but would they have released one way back when, I probably would have gotten a copy. But as things stand, I won't get one when they finally come around to finally do it.

[Moon-Spinner]

Originally Posted by elgarak

So.... It has a built-in stand, and comes with an external keyboard. Microsoft seems to think that people like to put it on a desk in front of them.

Excuse me, but we already have such products. They're called laptops. The whole point of a tablet is to be able to NOT put it down. To use it standing, or while chillaxing on the couch. To step back from that and go halfway back to the laptop shows how massively ignorant Microsoft is.

The keyboard is detachable, so this device can be use either as a laptop or a pad. Microsoft is trying to capture both markets.

[a_unique_person]

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Given that they keep insisting on offer multiple versions of Windows, I'd lean toward the former.

Apple tried the server market, and gave up. The idea that one OS can suit all needs is crazy, with our current level of technology. MS Server is OK, but still screws up when you push it. So multiple versions it is. The new version of Windows is targeted at portable devices, the desktop 'experience' is an add on.

Which makes sense, since the main job of an OS is pretty basic really. Launch an application, manage an FS.

[elgarak]

Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner

The keyboard is detachable, so this device can be use either as a laptop or a pad. Microsoft is trying to capture both markets.

Go over to surface.com, and watch then video Microsoft releases to advertise for that thing. What features are advertised?

And read my post again. I understand, but Microsoft is not going forward. They're not making a tablet, they're making a laptop-hybrid, because they cannot sell a high-priced major software product for the iPad.

[commandlinegamer]

Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner

The keyboard is detachable, so this device can be use either as a laptop or a pad. Microsoft is trying to capture both markets.

Dell tried that with the Streak...

Anyway it has to be better than some of the budget so-called tablets out there.

Heartbreaking to see people buying £50 brand-even-tech-geeks-have-never-heard-of machines from eBay which you're lucky if they last half-an-hour before the keyboard, or wireless packs in.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

As an operating system, iOS5 is inferior to Android 4.0.

No.

[DavidS]

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

As an operating system, iOS5 is inferior to Android 4.0.

Can you enumerate specific reasons you say this, with objective or quantitative metrics where appropriate?

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

No.

Can you similarly refute that a priori, or point by point?

I ask to be inquisitive, not argumentative.

Some of us might appreciate an expert, or at least more informed, discussion of the OS (not necessarily app suite or market) differences and advantages. An admittedly quick search found only this thread.

[The Dark Lord]

It's just my opinion, but iOS is boring and simplistic.

[TheL8Elvis]

Originally Posted by DavidS

Can you enumerate specific reasons you say this, with objective or quantitative metrics where appropriate?

Can you similarly refute that a priori, or point by point?

I ask to be inquisitive, not argumentative.

Some of us might appreciate an expert, or at least more informed, discussion of the OS (not necessarily app suite or market) differences and advantages. An admittedly quick search found only this thread.

You probably want to stay way from those apple -vs- android threads.

Perhaps the point was that a superior or inferior OS is mostly subjective.

I think the 'generalisms' are mostly true:
If you want 100 different clocks and launchers and like to to tweak , go with android.
If you are happy with the what apple gives you and you just want it to work, go with apple.

The only other thing I'll add - *you* are apples customer, and I think that keep that in mind when improving the user experience. Apple makes money selling devices people buy because iOS is on it.

Who is the real Android customer ?

ETA: the fact this devolved into android vs iOS might tell you how well MS will do :-)

[DavidS]

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

You probably want to stay way from those apple -vs- android threads.

Perhaps the point was that a superior or inferior OS is mostly subjective.

I think the 'generalisms' are mostly true:
If you want 100 different clocks and launchers and like to to tweak , go with android.
If you are happy with the what apple gives you and you just want it to work, go with apple.

The only other thing I'll add - *you* are apples customer, and I think that keep that in mind when improving the user experience. Apple makes money selling devices people buy because iOS is on it.

Who is the real Android customer ?

ETA: the fact this devolved into android vs iOS might tell you how well MS will do :-)

I'm asking specifically about the OS quality claims, not the marketing nor applications market considerations. I seek enlightenment, not engagement.

As a technical professional with more than average cybernetic acumen, I'm curious about the basis for those claims. A difference presenting only subjective value can still be a suitable basis.

The list of things I (personally, currently) want from a smartphone or tablet is sufficiently short to make the marketing and applications market details irrelevant to my choice.

Clocks & launchers, eh? Hmm...

Apple makes money selling devices because the Apple logo is on them. Without reason to think iOS is better, that can't be it.

[TheL8Elvis]

Originally Posted by DavidS

I'm asking specifically about the OS quality claims, not the marketing nor applications market considerations. I seek enlightenment, not engagement.
...

Then I'll defer to those who made the original claims to enlighten you.

[Rat]

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

I think the 'generalisms' are mostly true:
If you want 100 different clocks and launchers and like to to tweak , go with android.
If you are happy with the what apple gives you and you just want it to work, go with apple.

This is the second time I've read this bit of dismissive snidery here this week. Is it something Apple owners train for? Is it something printed in the instruction manual?

Generally I'm happy with what Android gives me -- it takes pictures, it checks email, and so on. I do not have a huge number of other apps, but when I've gone to download them, I've not noticed a preponderance of clocks, while I have noticed a good number of decent quality apps that do what I need.

[TheL8Elvis]

Originally Posted by Rat

This is the second time I've read this bit of dismissive snidery here this week. Is it something Apple owners train for? Is it something printed in the instruction manual?

You left out (what I consider to be) most of the context:

Quote:

Perhaps the point was that a superior or inferior OS is mostly subjective.

I think the 'generalisms' are mostly true

I was simply throwing out some over-simplifications, not trying to piss on anybodies parade.

Originally Posted by Rat

Generally I'm happy with what Android gives me -- it takes pictures, it checks email, and so on. I do not have a huge number of other apps, but when I've gone to download them, I've not noticed a preponderance of clocks, while I have noticed a good number of decent quality apps that do what I need.

[Beerina]

I see nothing particularly novel about it. The magnetic docking is cool, as is the thinness, but those kinds of things are low priority compared to actual tablet-style fun and games and surfing.

Where is the novel in that bit, that makes this more than another Johnny Come-Lately mee-too effort?

[Wowbagger]

Well, the one thing it has going for it, is that it will have a better operating system than the iPads: The full power of Windows! (Or, almost full power, if its the RT edition.)

If you care about that sort of thing. I suspect most tablet computing fans won't care about that. But, as a software developer and general tech geek, I might. I, for one, always found iOS to be a rather wimpy, oversimplified operating system.

I happen to have a Windows 7 based convertible Tablet PC, right now. It's heavier than an iPad, and it's bulkier to walk around with. But, I like it 'cause its also a full-fledged laptop, and not some puny Internet device.

My only concern is that the interface for Windows 8, with those active tiles, isn't much to my liking. I would much prefer the direction Android took with its widgets system.

But, I am willing to hold off on final judgement until I am able to play with one.

Time will tell if other people really care about the power of their operating system.

ETA: As a side note, I want to mention that I have a preview version of Windows 8 on a desktop machine. And, I can't say I'm a fan of the tiles for use on desktop machines, at all!

[Staffsknot]

Pretty good article on this: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/s...-2012061931075

But in all seriousness, il wait until it is released before I make any sort of wide sweeping judgements about it.

[TheL8Elvis]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Well, the one thing it has going for it, is that it will have a better operating system than the iPads: The full power of Windows! (Or, almost full power, if its the RT edition.)

If you care about that sort of thing. I suspect most tablet computing fans won't care about that. But, as a software developer and general tech geek, I might. I, for one, always found iOS to be a rather wimpy, oversimplified operating system.

Could you elaborate ?

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I happen to have a Windows 7 based convertible Tablet PC, right now. It's heavier than an iPad, and it's bulkier to walk around with. But, I like it 'cause its also a full-fledged laptop, and not some puny Internet device.

So you already have what MS just showed. Except the new one is smaller and thinner. Right ? And nobody bought them then they were called convertible laptops.

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

My only concern is that the interface for Windows 8, with those active tiles, isn't much to my liking. I would much prefer the direction Android took with its widgets system.

But, I am willing to hold off on final judgement until I am able to play with one.

Time will tell if other people really care about the power of their operating system.

ETA: As a side note, I want to mention that I have a preview version of Windows 8 on a desktop machine. And, I can't say I'm a fan of the tiles for use on desktop machines, at all!

[Bell]

"Surface"

Really?

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

Could you elaborate ?

Just off the top of my head, regarding iOS:

File management is practically non-existent.
System settings and customization options are limited.
Difficult to install and use servers, such as a database servers; and development tools.
Opportunities for third-party APIs are more limited.
Can't run performance-demanding games terribly well.
Performance-demanding applications, such as video editing software, have to put up with feature limits and/or poor performance.
Multi-tasking is not handled as well: Overlapping or side-by-side windows are practically non-existent.

Also: Apps. tend to have limited features, but that is more about the apps, than the OS. I like having the feature set of Word, Excel, etc. around.

Etc.

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

So you already have what MS just showed. Except the new one is smaller and thinner. Right ?

Mostly right.

The new one also comes with an OS that is better optimized for multi-touch interfacing and such, that won't make much difference on the one I have.
(I happen to have a model that supports single point touch, but I find it's not worth much, and end up using a stylus anyway.)

And, it looks like it will typically have less storage space.

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

And nobody bought them then they were called convertible laptops.

I think price is also an issue. Convertible laptop tablets cost around $2,000 each. If the Surface machines can do a lot better, I think they will sell better.

[commandlinegamer]

Originally Posted by Bell

"Surface"

Really?

At least it's better than "slate". That name should have died out with Arthur C. Clarke.

[DavidS]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Just off the top of my head, regarding iOS:

File management is practically non-existent.
System settings and customization options are limited.
Difficult to install and use servers, such as a database servers; and development tools.
Opportunities for third-party APIs are more limited.
Can't run performance-demanding games terribly well.
Performance-demanding applications, such as video editing software, have to put up with feature limits and/or poor performance.
Multi-tasking is not handled as well: Overlapping or side-by-side windows are practically non-existent.

Also: Apps. tend to have limited features, but that is more about the apps, than the OS. I like having the feature set of Word, Excel, etc. around.

Thanks. Those are the sort of comparisons I was asking for Android v. iOS. I know you didn't mention Android, but it's helpful to see some OS comparison criteria enumerated even with qualitative/comparative/subjective assessments.

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by DavidS

Thanks. Those are the sort of comparisons I was asking for Android v. iOS. I know you didn't mention Android, but it's helpful to see some OS comparison criteria enumerated even with qualitative/comparative/subjective assessments.

Android is also a quite a bit more limited than desktop Windows.

But, it has less limitations than iOS. For example: You can replace any built-in components of Android, if you wanted to: The phone dialer, the on-screen keyboard, etc. Can't do that with an iOS, at least not without serious hacking.

I'm not entirely sure how Windows Phone compares in that department, anymore. But Windows 8 RT looks to be an almost full deal, when it comes to OS power, so those limits probably don't apply to Surface.

[Wowbagger]

Microsoft's "mistake", back in 2002 or so, was that they were targeting the Tablet PC for business users, and assumed they would want relatively powerful machines.

They didn't forsee a consumer demand for cheaper, dumber machines.

Apple saw the demand for for cheaper, dumber machines, and they sold them like hot-cakes!

Now, Microsoft has to play catch-up by trying to appeal to both markets. That's my hypothesis behind why they have both Windows RT (using the cheaper ARM chip) and Windows Pro (using a powerful Intel chip) options.

What does everyone else think?

[Wolfman]

[elgarak]

Interesting video here. It's a mashup of Microsoft's Surface presentation and Apple's original iPad unveiling.

Essentially, Microsoft tried to copy the whole thing. Two years after Apple, who have already moved on two generations. And even then, they failed to achieve what Apple had back then. Demo machines for the attendees (Microsoft let people hold the prototypes, but the keyboard was still off-limits). Airplay working without noticeable glitches (Microsoft had to show all on the tablet only, no mirroring on the big screen). Prices and release dates in the very near future.

It's rather embarrassing. It pains me to see Microsoft fail so spectacularly. I don't want them to go under like this. I believe there's a market out there and enough talent in house to succeed.

I have criticized Microsoft products a lot, and mostly abandoned them for my daily work. This was not done out of hate, but because there were better alternatives out there. Instead of fixing and improving, Microsoft tried to catch Apple, and failed ... and failed some more.

As I said before: Apple (and others) make good hardware. Write some *********** software for them, instead of trying to BE them. You aren't them, so be what you are.

[kajata]

Originally Posted by elgarak

It's rather embarrassing. It pains me to see Microsoft fail so spectacularly.

You have to be careful making remarks like that. This thread has some pretty funny posts in it proclaiming the iPad a major fail when it was introduced.

[elgarak]

Originally Posted by kajata

You have to be careful making remarks like that. This thread has some pretty funny posts in it proclaiming the iPad a major fail when it was introduced.

One word: Zune.


And you must admit that Apple had things in place that Microsoft does not: Prices, delivery dates, a demonstration of working (new) features, and a software/content delivery infrastructure (App store and iTunes. Microsoft wants to build something like the former. The latter...I dunno. Is the Zune marketplace still there? Be it as it may, it's never mentioned as one of the major players in digital content delivery).

[TheL8Elvis]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Android is also a quite a bit more limited than desktop Windows.

But, it has less limitations than iOS. For example: You can replace any built-in components of Android, if you wanted to: The phone dialer, the on-screen keyboard, etc. Can't do that with an iOS, at least not without serious hacking.

I'm not entirely sure how Windows Phone compares in that department, anymore. But Windows 8 RT looks to be an almost full deal, when it comes to OS power, so those limits probably don't apply to Surface.

From what I have read, RT may be as locked down as iOS. Signed code, etc. I think MS is really trying to follow in Apples footsteps on this one.

[kajata]

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

From what I have read, RT may be as locked down as iOS.

Am I crazy in thinking within 5 years or so Macs and iOS devices will be running under the same OS? With each new OS X release it's looking more and more that way.