Australian Politics

[MG1962]

Originally Posted by Legend

Michael Keenan is breaking down in parliament. He stood there in silence on several occasions in an effort to control himself while talking about the Christmas Island tragedy. Tissues got passed down from the backbenches to the woman who sits next to Ken Wyatt. I don't know her name.

Bronwyn Bishop took the piss, the stupid cow. It was as if she trashed the idea of putting aside "partisan politics", as they say.

She is living proof humans can survive in the modern world without a stitch of humanity about them

[Legend]

Originally Posted by MG1962

She is living proof humans can survive in the modern world without a stitch of humanity about them

This is the danger with career politicians. She has become a jaded old work mule.

[lionking]

And it looks like some Lib backbenchers may cross the floor to vote for Oakshot's asylum seeker bill, involving offshore peocessing in Nauru and Malaysia. This could be a very important vote, even though it's very unlikely to get through the Senate.

[Wildy]

I will admit that on the boat people debate I'm finding myself more in agreement with the Greens than anyone else. We really do need a better solution than "go somewhere else". But if your aim is to stop the boats in their tracks, sending them to Malaysia is probably the best way to go.

But of course that would probably end up removing a bogeyman that the Liberals have been using for quite a while now.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by lionking

And it looks like some Lib backbenchers may cross the floor to vote for Oakshot's asylum seeker bill, involving offshore peocessing in Nauru and Malaysia...

'Cause that worked so well last time.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

'Cause that worked so well last time.

It did stop the boats, and that's exactly what both sides want. Another boat sank north of CI today. This just has to stop.

[wombatwal]

Where is Alfie.
He agreed with me months ago when I suggested a compromise Nauru and Malaysia solution.
I wonder if he feels the same now.

[Hallo Alfie]

Yes I do. Anything to stop the deaths. That said, Malaysia is still a crappy idea.

Also, the worst PM ever should meet anything that is put on the table. Her words say "compromise" but her politics and actions - judging by parliament today - remain "do it my way".

[lionking]

And yet who's authority will be undermined if Lib backbenchers cross the floor, as seems likely?

Worst Opposition Leader ever. By far.

[lionking]

Harry Jenkins is talking now. A very good Speaker, but also a good debater.

What really annoys me is that Labor is prepared to compromise, and at least some of the Libs support the compromise. The Chamber is almost empty now. Abbott and his puppy, Pyne, are no doubt putting the blowtorch to the dissidents.

[Hallo Alfie]

The worst opposition leader ever. That's a laugh. So far he has managed the scalp of K Rudd, nearly brought down a first term government, he has Gillard on the ropes in terms of her own leadership (there are still rumours of her impending fall), and he holds an amazing 2pp lead in the polls. He has the Labor government backflipping on policy to now reintroduce offshore processing.

You might hate him and his policies but in terms of KRAs, his employers and he would be very happy with the results to date.

As for Gillard....

[Hallo Alfie]

Originally Posted by lionking

What really annoys me is that Labor is prepared to compromise,

???
What would you like to see happen?

[lionking]

Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie

???
What would you like to see happen?

Are you really following this? Labor is prepared to support Nauru as a processing centre.

But don't recant. Your posts consistently display irrational hatred for Labor and (mysogenist?) hatred for Gillard.

[Hallo Alfie]

Originally Posted by lionking

Are you really following this? Labor is prepared to support Nauru as a processing centre.

So you are suggesting that Gillard should offer a compromise and then withdraw that offer.

Nice

Or perhaps, you are saying that Labor should stick to their Malaysian solution guns and allow more deaths at sea.

Even nicer.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie

So you are suggesting that Gillard should offer a compromise and then withdraw that offer.

Nice

Or perhaps, you are saying that Labor should stick to their Malaysian solution guns and allow more deaths at sea.

Even nicer.

Just as I thought, you are not following this issue at all. Thanks for the confirmation.

[lionking]

I really don't know how Abbott can look at himself in the mirror. There is a solution at hand to stop these boats. Abbott is digging his heels in. If backbenchers cross the floor, Abbott is doomed.

[Wildy]

Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie

Or perhaps, you are saying that Labor should stick to their Malaysian solution guns and allow more deaths at sea.

And what evidence do you have that the Malaysian solution will cause more deaths at sea?

[Wildy]

Originally Posted by lionking

I really don't know how Abbott can look at himself in the mirror. There is a solution at hand to stop these boats. Abbott is digging his heels in. If backbenchers cross the floor, Abbott is doomed.

But that's not evidence that Abbott is a bad leader, it just means that... uhh... err... umm... that Gillard... is bad... because... Liberal backbenchers voted with her on something?

[lionking]

Yup, something like that......

[Legend]

Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie

The worst opposition leader ever. That's a laugh. So far he has managed the scalp of K Rudd, nearly brought down a first term government, he has Gillard on the ropes in terms of her own leadership (there are still rumours of her impending fall), and he holds an amazing 2pp lead in the polls. He has the Labor government backflipping on policy to now reintroduce offshore processing.

You might hate him and his policies but in terms of KRAs, his employers and he would be very happy with the results to date.

Oh, Alfie, darling.

You're telling me none of that happens to be incidental, residual "success" from Gillard being the "worst PM ever", and has everything to do with Abbott's political prowess? Considering how badly he's doing in the approval ratings, that position is totally untenable.

What I'm trying to say is: if you wore an eye patch, you'd be blind.

Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie

As for Gillard....

... her politics has been impressive. She controlled a minority government where Abbott could not; her government helped Australia through one of the biggest global economic crises in recent history; she poached an opposition MP to fill the role of Speaker within that minority government in order to shore up numbers; she had the guts to introduce a revolutionary and unpopular carbon tax to keep the Greens content, an area where Abbott fails hopelessly; and, she has shown an ability to offer compromise not just to the Greens and Independents, but also to the Opposition.

Abbott has been calling everything a sign of the apocalypse. He is a lazy, slimy politician who places his political ambition ahead of practical solutions. His doomsday prophecy, as Emerson quite aptly put it, has actually had an impact on consumer confidence and makes Australia out to be a Greek dystopia when it is actually the envy of the world.

[Wildy]

The Coalition are arguing "human rights" and "compromise". What stupidity from them.

Bob Katter has basically explained why offshore processing wouldn't work and why Malaysia might work. I'm also a little amazed to hear him claim that he potentially made a mistake when he voted against Malaysia the first time.

Also he looks funny without a hat.

[Legend]

That's what was so weird about the whole thing. Julie Bishop got up there saying they "won't compromise on human rights", and then blamed the government for "not compromising" in the very same speech.

[Wildy]

I'm starting to wonder if there's going to be a split in the Coalition when this all comes down to a vote.

[Wildy]

And Christopher Pyne once again acts like an idiot.

I agree with the Albanese. The Coalition are being inconsistent.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Wildy

I'm starting to wonder if there's going to be a split in the Coalition when this all comes down to a vote.

If there is anyone with conscience in the Coalition, and someone crosses the floor, Abbott is gone I believe. Turnbull is sitting there twiddling his fingers.

What a charade. We have people losing their lives on the way to CI. A solution is at hand. Yet that toxic fool Abbott won't compromise for the sake of a handful of votes in Western Sydney.

Worst Opposition Leader ever. True Liberals should hang their heads in shame.

[Wildy]

I'm very interested in clearing up what happened with Washer. From the ABC it sounds like he was planning on crossing the floor but changed his mind after Bishop gave him a kiss.

At least the bill passed the house. Hopefully it'll make it through the Senate, but that depends on either Coalition senators disobeying the Liberals or the Greens suddenly changing their mind (not bloodly likely though).

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Wildy

I'm very interested in clearing up what happened with Washer. From the ABC it sounds like he was planning on crossing the floor but changed his mind after Bishop gave him a kiss.

At least the bill passed the house. Hopefully it'll make it through the Senate, but that depends on either Coalition senators disobeying the Liberals or the Greens suddenly changing their mind (not bloodly likely though).

A kiss? The kiss of death more likely.

With Bandt's amendment getting up, maybe the Greens will vote with Labor in the Senate. I hope so, otherwise we will have more leaky boats and more deaths.

[Legend]

I only just realised that there are two Bishops on the Liberal frontbench, ha! Could you imagine getting a kiss from Bronwyn? If you got one from old Julie there, I've no doubt you'd turn into bloody stone.

I had to go to bed before I passed out, so I missed the denouement, but it sounds at least slightly exciting. I missed Hockey's "tears", too.

ETA: And yes, the Greens had better vote for it or I'm going to be thoroughly disappointed with them.

[Akhenaten]

It's getting close to the point where Abbot is looking like a liability as the election looms closer, isn't it?

I mean, as a keen Julia supporter I'd rather see hm stick around, and that can't be good.

[Hallo Alfie]

The bill will fail in the senate.
Gillard fails the test again and proves she had no real interest in reaching a solution.
A true compromise would have met the one sticking point that stops the coalition from supporting the bill which is about sending asylum seekers to a country that is a signatory to the UN convention or at the least has some protections (eg. Nauru under the Pacific solution was run under Australian control).

Her stupid knows no bounds it seems.
Moreover her pleas around compromise and putting aside political point scoring prove a lie - and she has form.

[lionking]

Places like Afghanistan, Nigeria and Columbia are signatories to the UN convention on refugees. Let's send them there.

The stance by Abbott is cynical in the extreme. Since when have the Libs been beholden to UN conventions?

The other group to come out of this shamefully is the Greens. They will never get their desire for onshore processing passed and they know it. In the meantime, they will just let people drown. Some principled decision that is.

[lionking]

By the way Alfie, do you actually know the Coalition policy? It's to tow the bloody boats back to where they came from including to Malaysia, regardless of whether these destinations have signed the refugee convention or not. Do you support this policy? A very simple question.

[Wildy]

Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie

The bill will fail in the senate.

Well we'll find out later on today won't we.

Quote:

Gillard fails the test again and proves she had no real interest in reaching a solution.

So because the bill fails in the Senate it's her fault? Quite frankly if the bill that passed the House yesterday fails, it's the fault of Rob Oakshott, the author of the bill. And last time I checked he wasn't part of Labor.

Quote:

A true compromise would have met the one sticking point that stops the coalition from supporting the bill which is about sending asylum seekers to a country that is a signatory to the UN convention or at the least has some protections (eg. Nauru under the Pacific solution was run under Australian control).

Considering that when Scott Morrison was on 7.30 and was asked about Coalition support if Labor implemented Coalition policy, after deflecting for a bit he ended up saying:

Originally Posted by Scott Morrison, 7.30 25/6/12

No, what I'm saying, Leigh: the problem now is just not their policies and what they do, it's them themselves. This government is the pull factor. They are actually the problem. And they have no credibility now out there, I think, to pull virtually any measure off. Now I have very great confidence that if Tony Abbott and I were given the opportunity if we're elected that these measures would be absolutely successful, as they were last time when John Howard, Philip Ruddock and Alexander Downer constructed the arrangements we had last time and put them into place. I have great confidence in that.

If you can't tell he's basically saying that the Coalition would oppose Labor implementing Coalition policy because they want to do it themselves.

If you look at how the Liberals have been acting in this term it's quite clear that they don't give a damn about the lives of these people, they'd gladly let more die if it means that they can go on the TV and claim that "the Government isn't doing anything" while opposing whatever the Government proposes.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Wildy

If you look at how the Liberals have been acting in this term it's quite clear that they don't give a damn about the lives of these people, they'd gladly let more die if it means that they can go on the TV and claim that "the Government isn't doing anything" while opposing whatever the Government proposes.

Exactly. The boats arriving is good for Abbott, and the last thing he and his cronies want is for Labor to find a solution. How anybody sees it differently is absolutely beyond me.

[wombatwal]

Look, Malaysia may not be a perfect solution at all.
But it is a short term solution with Nauru thrown in if the 800 arrivals is breached.
Then, maybe, we can get a sane, sensible bi-partisan policy on refugees, working with our neighbours for a regional solution. It gives us, you know us, Australia, not them and us Coalition and Labor.
The Greens have gone for me, I did consider voting for them because I had no other choice. But no, will probably vote informal unfortunately unless a good competent Independent comes through in my electorate of Werriwa.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by wombatwal

Look, Malaysia may not be a perfect solution at all.
But it is a short term solution with Nauru thrown in if the 800 arrivals is breached.
Then, maybe, we can get a sane, sensible bi-partisan policy on refugees, working with our neighbours for a regional solution. It gives us, you know us, Australia, not them and us Coalition and Labor.
The Greens have gone for me, I did consider voting for them because I had no other choice. But no, will probably vote informal unfortunately unless a good competent Independent comes through in my electorate of Werriwa.

Well said wal.

[Wildy]

Voted down 39-29. Of course Abbott is blaming Gillard for supposedly being "stubborn" and Gillard has, quite rightly, pointed out that Abbott keeps on going on about "stopping the boats" until he has to make a decision that could stop the boats.

[lionking]

The Greens and the Coalition now both have blood on their hands. A solution (perhaps imperfect) to stop the boats was at hand. Abbott is scum.

[Wildy]

While I can agree that the Greens have blood on their hands, it isn't as much as the Coalition.

The Greens have never liked offshore processing or the Malaysia solution and so voted against a bill that they felt didn't represent the ideals of their party. Perhaps things would be different if their amendments had gone through but it didn't. I think the one increasing funding to the UN to help speed up processing in the camps in Malaysia and Indonesia would have done wonders in encouraging a regional solution to this issue.

There's really no excuse from the Coalition though. If human rights are now suddenly so important then they could have called for an amendment that required these deals to have a binding agreement on the other country to enforce those rights on the people involved. Instead they just wanted cheap goal scoring.

[lionking]

Can't disagree.