Gen Y's adversion to driving.

[Warrior1461]

http://news.yahoo.com/americas-gener...0--sector.html

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - To Shoshana Gurian-Sherman, driving seemed like a huge hassle.

Breach of rule 4 removed. Do not copy and paste entire articles from elsewhere.

Posted By:Cuddles

[Tsukasa Buddha]

(Might want to edit down how much of the article you quoted.)

My cousins and I definitely fit with this model. I would like to think this could be a long-term change in transit use, but I very much doubt it.

Quote:

The number of teen drivers has dramatically decreased over the past couple of decades. In 1983, 69% of all 17-year-olds had driver’s licenses. By 2008, only half of 17-year-olds had licenses. What’s behind the big drop?

Researchers hypothesize that the rise of the Internet, text messaging, and other technology has made it easier for teens to connect with each other and socialize without the need of a car. The car culture of generations past has apparently been replaced, at least partially, by the e-culture of texts, Twitter, Netflix, iTunes, and Facebook.

Linky.

Personally, I think cars are big money traps. And death traps, but that is secondary . A big problem my cousins and I face is that one has more job options available if one has a car, but you need a good source of income to buy a car. Obviously there are loans, but when you go a few months between jobs and you need to pay insurance, gas, random maintenance...

I'm betting there it is related to more "boomerang" kids as well. Don't need a car if you are living at home and your parents do the grocery shopping.

[Alan]

I don't drive because I don't do anything that requires it. Places I want to go are within walking distance or a train ride away. And there are the costs. And the Learner period delays the gratification of going where I would want to, as it would be at least the same as if someone with me drove me there in terms of their time investment.

Having one's own car is a requirement for some jobs, though.

[lionking]

All my kids got their licenses as soon as they turned 18, and purchased second hand cars soon after. Most either need their cars for work, or there is no public transport to get them there. I don't see any of their friends adverse to driving either.

[Rolfe]

I'd had it with public transport by the time I was 25. I bought a motorbike.

I passed my driving test when I was 18 and it was handy to be able to borrow my Dad's car sometimes, but no way could I have afforded one of my own. I went on travelling by train and bus and bicycle. But being able to drive at all, even in a borrowed car, was really handy. Having the motorbike was an absolute liberation.

I finally bought my first car when I was 32. I was so proud of it. I'm now on my 4th car, and I see no prospect of giving up unless my eyesight or reflexes pack it in. Even when they finally give me my free bus pass.

I thought public transport in the USA was so terrible everybody had to drive?

Rolfe.

[Ryokan]

I'm 35 and don't have a license.. I've always been happy with the bus service where I live, and always found better use for the money I could've used to get a license.

[The Dark Lord]

I hope more people stop driving. Less congestion and less chance of accidents for me!

[Warrior1461]

If we have the urban gen y riding bikes to work. This will mean long tern health benefits as this will fight the obesity epidemic in the long run.

[Howie Felterbush]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I'd had it with public transport by the time I was 25. I bought a motorbike.

I passed my driving test when I was 18 and it was handy to be able to borrow my Dad's car sometimes, but no way could I have afforded one of my own. I went on travelling by train and bus and bicycle. But being able to drive at all, even in a borrowed car, was really handy. Having the motorbike was an absolute liberation.

I finally bought my first car when I was 32. I was so proud of it. I'm now on my 4th car, and I see no prospect of giving up unless my eyesight or reflexes pack it in. Even when they finally give me my free bus pass.

I thought public transport in the USA was so terrible everybody had to drive?

Rolfe.

Of course you did.

Down in Madison, WI, it's a point of hipster pride to tell people you don't have a car. Most of the non-car people take the bus or ride vintage, sustainable, shade-grown bicycles.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I thought public transport in the USA was so terrible everybody had to drive?

Rolfe.

Depends where. Major cities, particularly New York have more than adequate public transport so that cars aren't needed. Lesser cities, for example Louisville, Kentucky, near my home have sufficient bus transport if you both live and work in the city, but not nearly so convenient as New York.

In most places, though, unless you are fortunate enough in your circumstances regarding residence adn work locale, cars are necessary or nearly enough so that it may as well be.

[Halfcentaur]

I was born in 1980. I put off learning to drive until I was around 18, at the time it felt like I was the last person on Earth to get with the program, looking back it doesn't seem that weird anymore.

Living in Oklahoma City, unless you're in a suburban area you are forced to drive for the most part. Public transportation here is mostly non existent, and the city, landwise, is one of the largest on Earth for being spread out.

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I'd had it with public transport by the time I was 25. I bought a motorbike.

I passed my driving test when I was 18 and it was handy to be able to borrow my Dad's car sometimes, but no way could I have afforded one of my own. I went on travelling by train and bus and bicycle. But being able to drive at all, even in a borrowed car, was really handy. Having the motorbike was an absolute liberation.

I finally bought my first car when I was 32. I was so proud of it. I'm now on my 4th car, and I see no prospect of giving up unless my eyesight or reflexes pack it in. Even when they finally give me my free bus pass.

I thought public transport in the USA was so terrible everybody had to drive?

Rolfe.

Not at all - or at least, not everywhere. I didn't get a liscence until I turned 22, and most of my neighborhood friends in Boston waited even longer than that. The bus/subway system there is both far cheaper than driving, and far less stressful. The only real exceptions were some Sunday bus routes, and late nights (after 2am), when the system was shut down for a few hours. New York City is pretty similar, and driving in DC is just awful.

[Kestrel]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I thought public transport in the USA was so terrible everybody had to drive?

It depends on where you live. The town I grew up in didn't have a bus system until after I graduated from collage. Almost everyone I knew got a drivers license at 16.

On the fringes of the Denver urban area where I live now a car is just about mandatory. The nearest bus stop is over a mile away. The bus comes to that stop twice in the morning and twice in the evening and never on weekends. The nearest store of any kind is two miles away. But further into town public transit is a lot better and it's being improved every year.

[Delvo]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I thought public transport in the USA was so terrible everybody had to drive

Not consistently, but in a lot of parts, yes. It's essentially a function of distance between destinations or length of a typical trip out. The more spread-out stuff is, the less efficient a public system can be. On average, the USA is more spacious than Europe, but in our bigger, denser cities, everything's still piled on top of everything else just as much as in a European city, so those cities get good bus & train systems (and good taxi service), which would be impossible in the rest of the country.

Right now, I live in a town where an extensive public transportation system wouldn't work. I drive a car, but I intend to get a scooter as soon as I can, partly to save money and extend the car's life. But I guess they'd still count "riding" a scooter or motorcycle as "driving".

I didn't bother getting a license when I turned 16 because I could ride my bicycle or a bus to anything I cared about. (The bus system was sort of skimpy, but was good enough in my part of the city if you planned ahead with the schedules.) That was in 1992, not a part of the modern phenomenon they're talking about here, and it wouldn't have worked if I'd wanted to go to certain other places in the city or had less time & willingness & ability for the biking. I finally learned to drive and got my license at about age 18.5 because my father convinced me that it would make sense to have that ability. I still didn't become a frequent driver until I moved off-campus for my third year at the university, and have biked or walked as much as conditions allowed in the various places I've lived since then.

All of that was dictated purely by practical considerations like distance, costs, and payload. If there's a real change going on here between one generation and another, I agree with the part of the article which suggests that it's because younger people are more practical and less emotionally invested in automobiles. They aren't the cultural novelty that they once were, and they keep getting more expensive and more crammed with more expensive parts with more expensive ways to break down.

[jasonpatterson]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I thought public transport in the USA was so terrible everybody had to drive?

Not to repeat the "it depends on location bit" yet again, but one major factor in whether you can realistically not drive in the US is the way our schools are organized. If you have a job in an area with crappy public schools and you have children, you really can't live near work, because you're stuck sending your kids to a private school or to the crappy school. Instead you move into a home half an hour away so that your kids get a decent education and you drive to work. Because it's so spread out, public transit really isn't practical. Most of suburbia doesn't even have sidewalks anymore.

[Seismosaurus]

I learned to drive in 2007/8, when I was 39 years old, and got my first car a few weeks after passing the test. So I have kind of a good perspective on this.

When you don't drive, much of your life is defined by that fact. Simple things - for example, I always strived to live as close as possible to where I worked. Generally within a mile or less, if possible. If further than that, you have to start thinking about bus routes.

Then you generally plan your travel a bit more carefully - can you stop off at the shops on the way home to buy groceries, rather than having to make a second trip? What's the weather going to be like when you have to travel? Do you have enough change on you for tickets? Do you need to leave more time for the trip, in case that bus happens to be full and you can't get on?

You're also somewhat dependent on mooching off friends and relatives. I tended to move around every few years, and I used to rope in relatives with a car to drive me.

When I got a car, the cliche came true - the amount of freedom I had increased considerably.

But there was one cost, outside of the financial one. I've always been a fairly big guy, but in the year following buying my first car I got much bigger through lack of exercise. And that led to my suffering from sleep apnea, which cost me my job. The lifestyle, health and financial fallout from all that is still snowballing through my life even now. Yes, I'm fully aware that this is nobody's fault but my own - I could have taken that car to drive down the gym, and I didn't. I could have gone to a doctor when I started feeling tired all the time, and I didn't. No excuses. But in that respect, getting a car practically ruined my life. Funny how things turn out.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I think one factor re: public transit is that more kids are spending longer times at universities that tend to either be in a major city with decent public transit (statistically still less than a European one) or in a "college town" where all the needs are centralised for them.

Outside the metros I have no reference for comparison for US vs Europe.

[Cain]

I stopped reading the second time I noticed her hyphenated last name.

[Babbylonian]

I'm "Gen X," got my license at my earliest opportunity in 1988 (encouraged by parents), and quit driving over 10 years ago. I wasn't a great driver and I got angry way too easily - not to the point of doing anything illegal but my blood pressure and general stress level went down noticeably after I stopped.

At this point, since I work at home (no commuting during heavy traffic times) I could probably drive with little trouble but over the years I've come to have serious issues with people driving alone.when there are public transit options available, and we've got good options in my area. It seems incredibly wasteful in terms of resources both general and individual. At $2.10 per round trip, even going to my usual grocery store is more economical than the cost of gasoline in the average car (according to Google's estimates anyway).

Buses and trains can take a bit longer but the potential financial and environmental advantages are huge. And the more people willing to use them, the more frequent the buses will come and the more routes will be provided. In and right around Portland, Oregon, it's not even that limiting in terms of where one can live.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

I'm "Gen X," got my license at my earliest opportunity in 1988 (encouraged by parents), and quit driving over 10 years ago. I wasn't a great driver and I got angry way too easily - not to the point of doing anything illegal but my blood pressure and general stress level went down noticeably after I stopped.

At this point, since I work at home (no commuting during heavy traffic times) I could probably drive with little trouble but over the years I've come to have serious issues with people driving alone.when there are public transit options available, and we've got good options in my area. It seems incredibly wasteful in terms of resources both general and individual. At $2.10 per round trip, even going to my usual grocery store is more economical than the cost of gasoline in the average car (according to Google's estimates anyway).

Buses and trains can take a bit longer but the potential financial and environmental advantages are huge. And the more people willing to use them, the more frequent the buses will come and the more routes will be provided. In and right around Portland, Oregon, it's not even that limiting in terms of where one can live.

I'm Gen X too. When I got to Miami, I found that public transportation was so-so. It was good enough that Randi was able to pick me up at the train station on weekends, but not having a car was a bit rough. I finally got a car when I started working for the police department and had to work midnight shifts. The Metro in Miami is good, but not nearly as good as it could be if expanded.

[Babbylonian]

Originally Posted by Ian

I'm Gen X too. When I got to Miami, I found that public transportation was so-so. It was good enough that Randi was able to pick me up at the train station on weekends, but not having a car was a bit rough. I finally got a car when I started working for the police department and had to work midnight shifts. The Metro in Miami is good, but not nearly as good as it could be if expanded.

Late-night service is bad around here too, though to be fair the major lines don't stop running until after midnight and start running at about 5, so most folks who have to work a graveyard shift are covered.

[Orphia Nay]

I'm 45 and have never had a license.

My son is 19 and has still only got his learner's permit. He said last week he may end up like me and never drive.

I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

Eta: He's been living on his own since he started uni in February.

[NewtonTrino]

Interesting discussion because my SO and and were discussing today how much we both appreciate automobiles. We're in Maui for 4th of July week and when we go on vacation we try and rent out cool cars to try out. This week we ended up with a hemi challenger which is pretty fun to drive around the island.

I've been driving since before it was legal. Both of my parents let occasionally drive their cars before I had a license (sounds crazy doesn't it?). I've always been super passionate about cars. Mustang 5.0's were at the top of my want list when I was a teenager. I've driven many awesome cars since then and cars just keep becoming a bigger part of my life.

[The_Fire]

37, eligble for licens since I was 18, never got it. First it was the money, then it was time, then money again, then time again, now I'm used to public transport and trains are excellent for clearing your thoughts and last minute research when going long distances for work etc. Busses are, on the other hand, not my favorite and I spend as little time as I can in those.....

[Puppycow]

It all depends on where you live. What generation you are doesn't really matter.

I'm a lapsed driver. It was a necessary skill where I used to live and it isn't one now. If I had money to spare, it would be nice to own a car, but it isn't necessary.

Also, in the olden days there wasn't any internet, so we actually left the house to go shopping. Nowadays we only buy (some) groceries at the local store and we do most of our shopping online. Lately we've even been buying stuff like toilet paper online. The prices are generally better than what you find at a brick-and-mortar store. And of course it's more convenient because it is delivered right to our front door.

[Madouc]

Grew up in and still live in Hong Kong, and while I'm turning 30 this week (holy moly, how did that happen?), myself and the vast majority of my friends don't drive. The few that do got their licences in other countries and do not currently own a car. I've driven a car on three occassions where I actually teared up I hated it so much.

That said, I see the value of at least being able to drive when going off on holiday - exploring rual areas is certainly easier when you can rent a car. I could mark my landmark birthday with some lessons, but then there are so many other things I could be doing with the money.

[commandlinegamer]

Thirty-three before I learned to drive. Just wasn't that bothered.

Nowadays, I love driving, but I haven't had a vehicle for 4 years cos I can't afford to.

[Tatyana]

Originally Posted by Seismosaurus

But there was one cost, outside of the financial one. I've always been a fairly big guy, but in the year following buying my first car I got much bigger through lack of exercise. And that led to my suffering from sleep apnea, which cost me my job. The lifestyle, health and financial fallout from all that is still snowballing through my life even now. Yes, I'm fully aware that this is nobody's fault but my own - I could have taken that car to drive down the gym, and I didn't. I could have gone to a doctor when I started feeling tired all the time, and I didn't.

Did you lose your job because you were tired all the time (because you had sleep apnea) or a direct result of sleep apnea?

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

I'm "Gen X," got my license at my earliest opportunity in 1988 (encouraged by parents), and quit driving over 10 years ago. I wasn't a great driver and I got angry way too easily - not to the point of doing anything illegal but my blood pressure and general stress level went down noticeably after I stopped.

At this point, since I work at home (no commuting during heavy traffic times) I could probably drive with little trouble but over the years I've come to have serious issues with people driving alone.when there are public transit options available, and we've got good options in my area. It seems incredibly wasteful in terms of resources both general and individual. At $2.10 per round trip, even going to my usual grocery store is more economical than the cost of gasoline in the average car (according to Google's estimates anyway).

Buses and trains can take a bit longer but the potential financial and environmental advantages are huge. And the more people willing to use them, the more frequent the buses will come and the more routes will be provided. In and right around Portland, Oregon, it's not even that limiting in terms of where one can live.

I am Gen X as well, and while I did have a car license, I lost it as I didn't convert it soon enough after immigrating.

I then got a motorbike license and lost that through too many tickets for speeding.

My partner is also Gen X, and he has a license, so we do rent cars on occasion when we are on holiday.

I can drive, I should really get my license, but it never seems like a priority, especially spending money on something I will rarely use.

We really like catching the train, and we are two minutes from the station.

[The Dark Lord]

Almost everybody I knew in high school got their licence at age 16. And many kids (hundreds) drove to school. The student parking lot is freaking huge. Easily bigger than the local Walmart's.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

Almost everybody I knew in high school got their licence at age 16. And many kids (hundreds) drove to school. The student parking lot is freaking huge. Easily bigger than the local Walmart's.

Oh god, traffic at our high schools is nightmarish. At one of them there is a cop every morning directing traffic.

[brodski]

I got my license at 17 (they youngest you can drive here) but went to university at 18, where I didn't have or need a car- them moved to central London were I also didn't have or need a car and so haven't driven since. Over a decade later it is still perfectly legal for em to drive, but probably not a good idea.

[The Dark Lord]

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha

Oh god, traffic at our high schools is nightmarish. At one of them there is a cop every morning directing traffic.

Yeah the traffic was pretty bad at my high school. It usually took a while to get in. They never had cops directing traffic though. I didn't have a first period my senior year partly in order to avoid the traffic.

[Eddie Dane]

I'm not surprised.

If you live in a walk-able community and have access to the Internet, why own an expensive machine that sucks up money all the time?

I wouldn't have a car if I could avoid it.

And I never take the car when I don't have to.
Lucky me: my town has lots of bicycle paths, I have a fast racebike for my own needs and one of these for groceries and kids.

[The Dark Lord]

Even if I could get by without a car (pretty much impossible where I live), I would not give it up. Driving is fun (at least it is if you've got 556 horses under the hood), plus it is more convenient. More expensive also? Sure, but I don't really care.

[Hallo Alfie]

Originally Posted by Warrior1461

Gen Y's adversion to driving.

Originally Posted by lionking

All my kids got their licenses as soon as they turned 18, and purchased second hand cars soon after. Most either need their cars for work, or there is no public transport to get them there. I don't see any of their friends adverse to driving either.

Adverse - Adjective: Preventing success or development; harmful; unfavorable: "adverse weather conditions"

Averse - Adjective: Having a strong dislike of or opposition to something


I assume you all mean averse rather than adverse?

[Garrette]

Slightly OT, but my biggest complaint about public transportation in the US is not local but national. I occasionally travel many hundreds of miles and am forced to do so by car or plane; since the plane is so much more expensive, I usually drive. I would prefer a train, particularly since my starting point is near a fairly large city and my end point is in a very large city with excellent local public transport.

The problem is that long distance train travel in the US (at least the bit that I have investigated) is inconveniently timed, far too time-consuming, and far too expensive, with hubs in far too few cities. I would have to drive at minimum 100 miles to reach the nearest train hub, and since there are no express routes I would have to plan for a 30 hour trip (one way) at a cost higher than what I would pay in gas to drive.

I find the situation immensely disturbing.

[geni]

Still a lot of UK jobs that seem to require driving licences simply to filter out those who can't afford lessons.

[jiggeryqua]

In 30 adult years I never once failed to get anywhere I wanted to get, despite being a life-long non-driver. Well ok, except precisely once, when I spent all day at a roundabout trying to hitch to a summmer job in Skegness and eventually decided I didn't really want to get there anyway. I did something else that summer. If only I were a driver, I'd know whether Skegness really was bracing.

According to a Poetry Society survey of a few years ago, poets of all generations (well, those alive at the time) were largely non-drivers. Can't find a link, but I can't imagine the veracity of the claim concerns anyone here.

[Mark6]

So far this thread has been about where/whether people objectively need a car, while OP's article is about whether American teenagers want car as a status symbol (answer -- they almost universally used to, not any more). In strictly utilitarian sense, many previous-generation teenagers could have delayed getting a car, and likely would have saved money doing so. But having a car was a social thing, especially for a male teenager. Not any more.

I spotted this trend years ago -- iPhone replaced car as teenage status symbol. I also noticed that when I mention it to men my own age, they say dismissively "You can't have sex on an iPhone!" To which I respond: "How many times did you actually have sex in a car?" With some shock they realize -- never or almost never. The myth of a car as the place for nookie is just a myth -- or has been for at least 40 years. In suburbia it is very easy to find a place for nookie, whether you have a car or not. Social value of a car was mostly in taking one (and one's date) to interesting places. Smartphone and internet bring interesting places to you.

[Rat]

I didn't learn until I was some way into my thirties, and it was rarely a great handicap. Certainly it was a pain carrying several heavy bags of shopping home once a week, but other than that, we went to work on the bus and on the train on holidays. What convinced me to learn to drive was a combination of work demanding it (literally) and a few train-related disasters.

Driving is very expensive, not so much because of fuel, but all the other expenses, and I don't really enjoy it anyway, but I couldn't be without it now.