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#1 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2,295
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Most useful IT skills and how to acquire them?
Greetings, forumites
I find myself in the unenviable position of having to find a new job, the previous company I worked for having gone under last wednesday. I've got about 18 months experience in desktop support, but no formal IT qualifications (I do have a degree in physics, only a 3rd though). I'm pretty keen on continuing in IT, but alot of the jobs i've seen so far need some combination of .NET, SQL, PHP, Java, HTML etc skills and/or qualifications (and sometimes experience, though that's a different issue). So basically, I need some advice. I need to know which of these skills is likely to be the most useful for finding a job, how easy they are to learn, whether i'm missing out any obvious ones, what type of qualifications employers are most interested in, how long I should expect to devote to learning each one, whether I should specialise or try to get a grounding in everything, whether I should self-teach using online materials (and which online materials) etc. I can't afford to fund my own training courses at present unless they're in the range of just a few hundred quid, but I can afford to buy books if that is likely to be useful. Looks like I also qualify for up to £1500 worth of training courses with the welsh React scheme, which looks like it can also pay for travel to courses, but I need to know how best to spend it. Anyone got any advice, or perhaps been in a similar situation? |
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"I offer the world my genius. All I ask in return is that the world cover my expenses." Hugo Rune |
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#2 |
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Muse
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
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I'm not sure there's a simple answer to this. The field is so wide, you can't just prepare for an 'IT job'.
You say you were in Desktop Support so learning a programming language is not going to help you if that's the area you want to stay in. If you want to get into programming though, there's still a myriad of choices. Java is a pretty good one to go for as it's used in a number of sectors but the key thing these days is probably to ensure you learn an OO (Object Oriented) language so you understand OO principles (converting to a different OO language is then much easier than if you were converting from a more 'sequential' language). I think out and out programming might be a fairly daunting step for you though (based on what seems to be your background) and you probably still wouldn't get a post because of lack of experience. Probably best to start with something that you could then gain experience in under your own power, so say teach yourself HTML, CSS etc (HTML Dog is a great starting resource for this) and you can use this to create your own website, then branch out to doing some for others (free or paid) - say a local club or friends small business or whatever. You then have something to demonstrate to an employer beyond 'I've done a training course' - indeed, you can sell yourself as an experienced web-designer! You'll also get a better idea whether you enjoy the design aspects or programming aspects more and that'll inform where you go next - if the latter then into more use of java script and then potentially into Java, or creating underlying databases and enjoying the SQL stuff and so on. Great if your training can be subsidised but there are some great free resources on the Internet these days. Some of my developers have taught themselves Objective C (for programming apps for iOS ie Apple devices) just from a series of free lectures from one of the Universities. If you wanted to stay in desktop support then gaining some form of MS certification is probably the way to go and / or perhaps some simple macro / VB work to underpin the Office suite. Again, this may allow you to decide which bits you like best and lead into being a .NET developer or going down the SQL server route. Seriously, there are so many options that without knowing more about you, it's difficult to advise. I see you are in Wales? If in the South then there's about to be some new IT jobs created in Caerphilly by a company called Attenda. I think a fair proportion of those will be support based so may be worth looking into. Sorry I can't be more help. |
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#3 |
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,570
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Folks will need Desktop Support, but what might help you grow, is find a smaller company that needs an IT guy to do everything, thats the fastest way to get your hands dirty so to speak, and often gives you the most exposure, a larger company is much more to likely to pigeon hole your role.
The bad news is in a smaller company climates in my opinion tend to be much more political as well, so there's good and bad, obviously. Good luck. |
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#4 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,930
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I'd look at the job adverts for something you'd like to move towards and choose a course accordingly. Where do you want to go? £1500 isn't enough for deep knowledge of anything though. ITIL Foundation might extend the story you can sell at your next interview a little. Doubtless there are specific Microsoft courses you could do. Depends on the job market where you are, I think.
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#5 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 3,016
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I have indeed been in a similar situation though the employment environment was different then. I visited my office and the key wouldn't turn in the lock. There was a sign on the door talking about repossession and I was skint. Like you I had a physics degree (not even a 3rd, no-one has ever asked) but only 12 months relevant work experience to your 18. Where I was slightly better off than you was in having an NVQ III in computer administration (by which they meant the paperwork you do when you install a BNC network card) woohoo!
Back then job adverts for IT pretty much just listed the amount of experience you had. Maybe or or two key technologies but length of experience was the main factor. There were few qualifications to ask for. The adverts were in this thing we used to call a newspaper made out of dead trees. It would be up to you to pick the jobs your were suitable for and sent in a CV to them You'd use something called a covering letter to highlight areas of your experience that matched what the recruiter was looking for. Chances are your CV would be read by someone who knew about technology and if they liked the look of you they'd call you in for interview. Now back in those days there were recruitment agencies but since this was before jobserve existed these agencies were like shops with cards in the window. Different agencies might specialise in different industry segments and so not all were worth the candle. I borrowed a copy of the BCS yearbook from my local library and found fax numbers for all the recruitment agencies with an IT department. I then wrote a macro in word to fax my CV and cover letter on spec to every single one of them. This was no help whatsoever but it give give me something to tell the dole office. What helped was having a good CV and covering letter tailored to specific job advertisements in such a way as to demonstrate that I had read and understood the advertisement and maybe even researched a little bit about the company. I'm not sure that happens so much any more. All the recruitment I've been involved in since has involved personal recommendation or agencies. Agencies these days seemed to have swarmed online and technology skills amongst those in the sector are somewhat less than they perhaps should be. Instead we have an alphabet soup of technologies and qualifications being used in simple search queries. If you have a CV that says "I know nothing about SQL or Oracle because I'm not a DBA" then expect to be contacted about database administrator jobs. As such you need to craft your CV for this brave new world. Now you mentioned .NET, SQL, PHP, Java, HTML already. I take it that this means that perhaps you haven't a great deal of experience in using these technologies but you know what they are and what they're used for. This puts you one step ahead of say, my wife or my children. The word you're looking for is familiarity. Put that on your CV "familiar with Web technologies PHP, Java, HTML and MySQL and MSSQL Server." Now your CV is turning up in those searches that's step one. I can tell that you are also "working towards" ITIL and MCSE track qualifications. By which I mean that you've taken that vital first step of knowing that the qualifications exist and are used as a search term by recruiters and HR departments that know nothing of real world IT experience. Essentially when I was at the same stage in my career that you are now the first page of my CV was three columns of technologies and software I'd heard of and would be interested in working with. Alongside which I'd have my level of understanding from Basic to Advanced. Such a CV would be considered pretty hackneyed these days by it impressed the unskilled in those days and I suspect that it would have the same effect on the recruiter bots. Then these recruiter bots are going to answer your question for you. If they start contacting you about Java work then sit down and learn a bit of JAVA. If it's web technologies then a portfolio is far more informative than any qualification. |
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EDL = English Disco Lovers |
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#6 |
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Ardent Formulist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 14,149
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Believe it or not, there are still a LOT of companies using Visual Basic 6, because it's so easy to learn and, although it's not a powerful language, it's easy to crank out quick and dirty apps that are "good enough". The best thing is, if you've got Microsoft Office, you already have Visual Basic for Applications, which is essentially the same language and comes with all the documentation you need.
Basic knowledge of HTML will also take you a long way. |
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To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens. |
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#7 |
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Critical Thinker
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 344
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IT is a pretty big field, so it might be hard to give you any advice without knowing more about what you'd like to work with. The tasks in the field range from hardware repair, user support, technical writing, project management, system administration and operations, data modeling, software development, software architecture, user interaction design, user interface design, testing and quality assurance, sales and marketing (and so on and on.) That said, in my opinion, the lowest thresholds for entry on the technical side of things is in testing and project management. System administration requires skills that have perhaps not yet been as clearly defined and itemized as those required for software development, so that might also be an area where you can get in on the ground floor based without a lot of paper-proven training. (But check with someone who actually works with system administration in your area before you base any decisions on that advice -- I'm partly guessing.) For training, I would suggest project management courses (PMP and SCRUM are nice words to have on your CV), courses in specific software testing tools or methods if you can find them and training, either officially or on your own, in Unix/Linux administration (at least to the point where you can write shell scripts, schedule batch jobs and run backups -- both ways) or Windows administration, if that's easier to find. Someone who knows a little bit in at least two of those areas can always be of some use in most IT organizations. |
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#8 |
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Guest
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Geneva
Posts: 3,110
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ITIL can be very useful and I find it opens up many doors by having it on my CV. If you were to pay for a whole training course it may not be worth it, but you can just pay for the exam (about £120 in London IIRC) and learn it on your own (after 18 months in the industry a lot of it should be a little familiar at least). Here's a (hopefully) useful link on how to get this without paying for training that I am using to upgrade my qualification from v2 to v3
http://www.itskeptic.org/pass-itil-v...y-and-free-ste If you think you can get through this without too much investment of time and money I would really recommend it. If not, then what you are asking sounds more along the technical side of the industry rather than process so you may be better to focus on the more techie skills |
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#9 |
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Available
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 841
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All the advice above is good, so here's another reasonable option...
If you've got desktop support experience, it's but a short jump across to software testing. You might consider seeing if there are any junior test analyst positions for software companies available. Testing or QA is a good way to really get stuck into the IT industry. From there you will start to pick up some programming skills and be dealing with databases, which will allow you to decide if you want to work with data (DBA or BI), code, or specialise in QA (performance and load testing are well paid QA specialties). Good luck! |
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#10 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 4,062
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The most useful IT skill is probably being able to search the web for what you need to know, quickly determine which results are the most useful, and apply those results effectively. Not much good on a resume though.
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#11 | |||
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BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,243
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Another vote for ITIL Foundation here. At the very least it gives you an appreciation of, and a common vocabulary for, the processes involved in running an IT shop.
If you want to go the programing route there's a great list of free resources in this question on StackOverflow. Or there's the Stanford programming course (part 1 you can skip the fiirst half -see the youtube link below) Do a quick analysis of what jobs are out there and what are the most common skills. Maybe come back here with a shortlist?
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Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke |
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#12 |
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Muse
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 577
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Well, it sorta depends on where you want to go from here. IMO, there are basically three paths:
1) Programming/Development 2) System and network Administration 3) Testing and QA Number One often requires a CS degree, and numbers two and three do not. (For reasons I do not completely understand) I do Number two, and did number one for about 6 years. In Silicon Valley, near where I live, there is alot of demand for all three. ALOT of demand! I get unsolicited voicemails, referrals and emails about once a week. It is probably somewhat obvious that I prefer number two, since it is what I chose. You shoould first decide which option you would like to pursue. If it is number two, I would recommend taking whatever PC you have and installing a dual boot of windos and Red Hat Linux. Then try and get a webserver, email server, dns server, whatever running on that system. You can do the same by building a system on Amazon EC2. Figuring out how EC2 works on your own will give you valuable skills, and it costs next to nothing. Good luck! |
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"We all know that Barack Obama won the Nobel Prize, but none of us quite know what for." -Victor Davis Hanson |
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#13 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Within a star too far to dream of
Posts: 1,484
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Great suggestions all, but this first thing to get under you're belt is the in and out knowledge of current operating systems - Windows XP, Windows 7, 8, The last several Mac Systems, Linux (Redhat)? How well versed are you with these? No matter what IT position you get, chances are that other users will look to you solve issues that come up with their systems. I sure that interviewers will want to know what platforms you know.
So many suggestions might seem overwhelming, but you seem to be motivated enough to get hacking, and get to where you want to go... |
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#14 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2,295
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Cheers guys, this has all been very helpful (and if anyone else has any advice i'd love to hear that too). I'll definitely take a look at this ITIL course, even if it's not directly useful it'l be great to have something cheap and reasonably easy to achieve on my CV anyway.
I'm also considering the programming route as a long term option, i've got a friend who self-taught himself C++ and C#, doing something similar with asp.net, VB and SQL might give me an option of moving sideways into a different career. Though I appreciate that it won't be easy without any direct experience, might still be worth a shot. Ocelot, i'll definitely use that "familiar with" idea when I start learning some new stuff, cheers. |
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"I offer the world my genius. All I ask in return is that the world cover my expenses." Hugo Rune |
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#15 |
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BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,243
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Also allow me to point out that I know more good programmers with physics and EE degrees than I do with CS degrees.
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Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke |
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#17 |
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BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,243
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Some good (if inflammatory) stuff here on elReg
And part of the StackExchange family I haven't tried yet http://careers.stackoverflow.com/ |
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Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke |
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#18 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Egoville
Posts: 3,083
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I thought IT jobs were in danger of becoming obsolete. :-/
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__________________
Reading this sentence is ineluctable. |
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#19 |
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Ardent Formulist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 14,149
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__________________
To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens. |
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#20 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: state of denial
Posts: 1,360
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I've been doing development for ~15 years and I've met plenty of people in the field without a CS degree. However, most of them also have gobs of experience, to balance the lack of degree (or having the wrong degree). So it is something you can learn on your own if motivated, however, it I'll agree with sir drinks that it is probably more difficult to get your foot in the door without something to show for it.
If you are interested in development, I think that at least initially you should focus on one aspect. Web development? ASP .NET is a good choice. Mobile apps? Either Objective-C (iPhone) or Java (Android). Windows Desktop apps? VB .NET. Their are plenty of free web tutorials to get you started. If you have a Mac XCode is a free development environement. If you're on Windows Eclipse (for Android development) or Visual Studio Express (for .NET) are free. |
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#21 |
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Muse
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
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#22 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Egoville
Posts: 3,083
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__________________
Reading this sentence is ineluctable. |
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#23 |
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BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,243
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The only people saying IT jobs are becoming obsolete seem to either a) know sod all about the business or b) are selling the latest pablum from Telon to today's magic pixie dust. The intersection of these 2 sets is not the empty set.
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Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke |
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#24 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Within a star too far to dream of
Posts: 1,484
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I work in IT, and IT jobs are definitely not becoming obsolete. Business managers would like to cut down on the amount of IT people they employ, but that's just business as usual, there are long term plans for reducing IT people where I work by combing jobs and such.
Maybe part of the idea that IT jobs are becoming obsolete stems from the fact that so many young people become computer savvy and can perform whatever computer needs small companies may require, but businesses that have higher computer needs will always need people that have training and knowledge beyond the simple speadsheets and networking needs. |
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#25 |
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BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,243
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I work for a major bank and we're continually seeing more IT development even with the massive investment in staff in India* and China. Some jobs are becoming obsolete - I'm an excellent CICS systems programmer but almost nobody needs an excellent CICS sysprog these days - someone who can run an install and log a case with IBM solves most needs. So after automating most of the work I did producing models of business services I'm currently working for SCJP 6 as we have shedloads of java development to do in our area.
*some damned good people by the way with excellent skills. |
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Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke |
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#26 |
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Muse
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 882
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Related question: How valuable are the Microsoft certifications? In the U.S. at least, late-night commercials for career colleges used to promote MCSE training aggressively as the gateway to an IT career. (Of course, I've also heard that someone with an MCSE "Must Call Someone Else.") I understand that the MCSE program has been changed/revised fairly recently. Is it an important credential? Does it really open doors? Or is it so common that it's really like touting your B.A.?
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#27 |
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Available
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 841
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I can't speak for MCSE as I'm on the programming side, but definitely Microsoft's MCTS and MCPD qualifications for developers are very valuable. They not only give a prospective employer a reasonable assurance that at least this candidate has some knowledge, but they also count towards an organisations Microsoft Partner status. So if you're applying at a Microsoft oriented company, such a qualification has direct benefits for them.
e.g. if your company has at least 4 qualified MCPD's you get fairly hefty discounts on software like Team Foundation Server. |
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#28 |
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BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,243
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That's interesting Octavo. Thanks
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Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke |
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#29 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2,295
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Update - I have a new job, same thing as before (desktop support) but for a bigger company and for more money. The job ad asked for MCSE, ITIL and MCPs, but I just explained in my cover letter that i'd done the same job they were advertising for 18 months without those qualifications, and then I got basically everything right in the IT test part of the interview.
I think i'll still work through this ITIL course though as it looks like it might be pretty useful in future, and it looks like having Oracle and PRINCE2 will be the best way to get a better paying job in future so I think i'll start looking at those when i'm settled in as well. Cheers again for the advice guys. |
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"I offer the world my genius. All I ask in return is that the world cover my expenses." Hugo Rune |
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#30 |
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Available
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 841
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No problem
The company that currently employs me offered all the developers a fairly decent financial incentive to qualify as MCPD's as the combined spend on incentives was offset by the savings they would incur from not having to pay full retail price for TFS. Of course in South Africa the Rand is fairly weak against the USD, so this may not make as much sense elsewhere in the world. |
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#31 |
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RBL CHeck Failed
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: in the shadows
Posts: 2,403
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I'm assuming you are in the UK? SEO is a booming market, and a basic level of competence could be achieved very quickly if you work with pros for a while.
Degrees are entirely irrelevant, competence and results are all that matters, the big digital media agencies are constantly recruiting (or struggling to) for relatively highly paid jobs. |
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"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title." - Anonymous |
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#32 |
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Guest
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Geneva
Posts: 3,110
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While ITIL and PRINCE2 aren't mutually exclusive by any means, in my opinion you would be better to go for one (ITIL if service management is your bag, PRINCE2 for project management) otherwise you risk being (or more importantly looking like) a jack of all trades which wouldn't lend itself to the higher paying jobs which want you to be a master of one.
I had this type of problem last year as I had 10 years of service management and then 3 of project management. PM contracts didn't want to know as I didn't have the necessary experience, service management were wary as I had gone over to PM! All in my opinion of course - occasionally you may see jobs asking for both and others may have different experience. Anyway - congratulations on the job! |
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#33 |
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Ardent Formulist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 14,149
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Here's a useful link:
http://career-services.monster.com/y...aid_job_skills The skills that pay the most, and how to acquire them. |
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__________________
To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens. |
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#34 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: state of denial
Posts: 1,360
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I have no evidence to back it up, but I've always felt that certs weren't particularly useful if you have a relevant B.S. or higher degree and/or lots of experience. In other words, it's never come up in a job interview or a posting I was looking at.
OTOH, they could be useful if you're trying to get into the field, but don't want to pursue a 4 year degree. |
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#35 |
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Available
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 841
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Absolutely agree, however even If you've gobs of experience, but no degree, there's really no reason NOT to pursue a MS qualification. They're fairly quick and cheap to write, you can self-study and as I mentioned earlier they do have some benefits to the right employer. Of course if you already have a CS degree, you probably don't need any further education to get a good job.
Maybe it's a South African thing, but 3 out of the last 3 Software companies I've worked for (all bespoke MS dev work) have had MS qualifications as part of their yearly personnel assessments, but for all of them, maintaining their MS Partner status was critical. |
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#36 |
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Muse
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 668
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![]() Says it all... |
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UKLS - 1984-2003, 2007- Girl 6: Besides, it's like he's an absentee landowner... And, I hate slumlords... ;-) |
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#37 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Egoville
Posts: 3,083
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__________________
Reading this sentence is ineluctable. |
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#38 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Within a star too far to dream of
Posts: 1,484
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I've gone through two MCTS books for Windows 7, but never took the exams. They really helped with my Windows 7 knowledge base, and I learned many things I probably would not have thought of without the books. Being already employed in IT I didn't feel any urgent need to take the exams (plus I'm a terrible exam taker anyway).
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#39 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 34,706
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Sorry if this has been said:
My instructors said that there are a number of factors in being hired -know you stuff, be ready to hit the ground running, whatever your skill set. There is usually no orientation or training phase -be competent in at least two areas, the example they gave was to know server software and PERL, so you have skills across broad categories -get certificates: it is silly but between two candidates with the same experience they will hire the one with the certificates |
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Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager |
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#40 |
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BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,243
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My wife (IT director for an insurance company) was grumbling last night as most of the CVs she'd been reading for some VB dev roles were unreadable*. She was also annoyed that at the start they would claim relevant experience (eg Oracle) then completely fail to show any Oracle work in the CV.
*eta: so they weren't read. They'll be expected to document their code and test cases. |
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Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke |
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