ABC's Q&A Program

Legend · 9th July 2012, 08:08 AM

I dislike the arts-centric episodes, so tonight's wasn't too enjoyable for me until the end when ol' Turnbull once again summoned those grass-is-greener sighs from my mouth and wistful, sideways stares to my visage. Beside the fact that it's morally antiquated lies the corollary fact that opposition to same-sex marriage legislation is politically stubborn.

That Chu woman was annoying and inarticulate, and everyone else was regrettably boring. (It was very coincidental, though, that they started prattling about The West Wing, because I capriciously started watching it a few days ago and I'm very much enjoying it. I forwent an episode to watch Q&A.)

I still haven't watched the last episode, mostly on account of Mirabella, but I'll muster the courage after Thursday's exam as soon as I confirm with my shrink that he's good for Friday.

Would a Turnbull-lead Coalition make all hope of Labor's re-election dashed?

lionking · 10th July 2012, 01:32 PM

On your final point, yes. Labor's only real chance is an Abbott meltdown. It may have just started with his calling boat people "unchristian".

Legend · 23rd July 2012, 01:00 AM

I just watched last week's episode and there was one question asked about the standard of political discourse in the country, and how parties are prone to "outright lying". It reminds me of an opinion that people espouse in order to sound shrewd when they're just being lazy.

Blame is never levelled at the public. People complain about how the media outlets have screwed everyone over by focusing on Craig Thomson's alleged rendezvous with hookers rather than reporting on the intricacies of the policy flavour-of-the-day. That sort of thinking necessitates branding the media as disconnected from the pulse of consumer demand, which is a pretty big call. I mean, there's a reason we have no Colberts here. If there's a buck to be made with astute political commentary, the buck will be made by an eager someone. The consumer drives the market and people are paid a lot of money to make sure corporations are attentive.

When people start complaining about politicians being useless or fraudulent, we assign blame to everyone but ourselves. We put them there, and just as it is with the media, we drive the market. Political strategists are telling politicians to speak like they have a pole up their derrieres and to avoid this word or that word because it works on us, and it works on us because we are too lazy to think too hard about the progress or regress of the nation.

The culprit is the public's political apathy. They don't care what happens in Canberra and they're too "busy" to focus on anything more serious than some political scandal that nestles comfortably within their cynical and jejune views. There is no NWO conspiring to keep us stupid, it's just our own refusal to educate ourselves.

Originally Posted by lionking

On your final point, yes. Labor's only real chance is an Abbott meltdown. It may have just started with his calling boat people "unchristian".

Fingers crossed, but I'm increasingly losing confidence that a turnaround is possible. It's still on the cards, but movement needs to start happening right now for the ALP to remain within a whisker.

wombatwal · 23rd July 2012, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Legend

Fingers crossed, but I'm increasingly losing confidence that a turnaround is possible. It's still on the cards, but movement needs to start happening right now for the ALP to remain within a whisker.

I am surprised you think they have a chance.
They are, particularly The worst Prime Minister ever is totally on the nose with the public, warranted or not that is the way it is.
Sure, Stalin may meltdown, but it requires the blow torch to the belly by the government and media to do it.
If Stalin had the same blowtorch to the belly that The worst Prime Minister ever has had I think Stalin would melt.

Legend · 23rd July 2012, 01:25 AM

And what if they do the musical chairs with K-Rudd?

We need to find a moniker for K-Rudd.

Hallo Alfie · 24th July 2012, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Legend

And what if they do the musical chairs with K-Rudd?

We need to find a moniker for K-Rudd.

I think the Labor team gave us a very broad selection at the last leadership challenge.

Legend · 24th July 2012, 02:22 AM

I can't believe that the episode I missed was the one where someone fainted. Bloody Mirabella deterred me, and also ignored the bloke who just collapsed right next to her.

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I AGREE

By the way, does anyone find Tony Jones to be harsher on members of the government than he is on Opposition members?

bit_pattern · 24th July 2012, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by wombatwal

I am surprised you think they have a chance.

This. There's nothing Labor can do to stop this ship from sinking. 6 months ago I would have pointed to Howard pre-2001 and his subsequent recovery but we're just too close now, the statistical probability is completely out the window.

If I was the government I'd be trying to push the biggest reforms through parliament as I could, push through the full Henry Tax Review reforms and at least leave some kind of solid legacy, make up for the squandered opportunities. With control over the Senate (with the Greens agreement) they could smash through some solid reforms that could be embedded before 2013 and would go some-way to redeeming the party for the cynical opportunism that shaped the limp-wristed attempts at reform (CPRS, MRRT which was essentially just a watered down element of the Henry Tax Review) and the spectacular lack of backbone showed in the subsequent and devastating backdowns from what were already weak reforms.

Personally, I think Labor needs to burn and have some other phoenix rise from its ashes. It saddens me to see the state of the modern Labor Party, it is a moribund and institutionally decrepit hollow-shell of its former self. The factions, the career politics, the extreme obsession with daily media cycles; it's a completely dysfunctional entity. It simply can't pander to the progressive left and the blue-collar middle any more, the alliance forged in the Whitlam years has completely broken down, the two opposing forces that Labor claims to represent must be torn asunder and some kind of loose coalition formed from the wreckage.

And considering Labor's parlous grassroots membership it's almost hard to see how they are going to ever recover from the tidal wave that is about to hit. They're going to have a very hard time recovering from this *********.

Legend · 24th July 2012, 03:09 AM

That, bit_pattern, was a fabulous post and I agree so much about Labor having to crash in order to rebuild as a committed centre-left party. I'm disheartened by how much conservatism runs through it.

bit_pattern · 24th July 2012, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Legend

That, bit_pattern, was a fabulous post and I agree so much about Labor having to crash in order to rebuild as a committed centre-left party. I'm disheartened by how much conservatism runs through it.

Something's gotta give sooner or later.

Legend · 22nd November 2012, 09:46 AM

Did anyone watch the last episode, featuring K-Rudd and Turnbull? I'm catching up on iView and I'm exactly 10 minutes through and so far it has been great. I'm not a huge K-Rudd guy, but he does very well in front of cameras and microphones. (Unless he's trying to sing to a group of teenagers at some music festival.)

Heather Ridout's comments about the GST being "old fashioned" compared to a business cash flow tax made for an interesting little soundbite.

ETA: I just finished the episode and it was one of the best I've ever seen. To those who didn't catch it, you may consider it highly recommended. "Our central asset is Tony Abbott," said Rudd.

a_unique_person · 23rd November 2012, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Legend

Did anyone watch the last episode, featuring K-Rudd and Turnbull? I'm catching up on iView and I'm exactly 10 minutes through and so far it has been great. I'm not a huge K-Rudd guy, but he does very well in front of cameras and microphones. (Unless he's trying to sing to a group of teenagers at some music festival.)

Heather Ridout's comments about the GST being "old fashioned" compared to a business cash flow tax made for an interesting little soundbite.

ETA: I just finished the episode and it was one of the best I've ever seen. To those who didn't catch it, you may consider it highly recommended. "Our central asset is Tony Abbott," said Rudd.

Rudd has his problems. When he is rational and functioning, he is an intelligent and committed politician, (a politician nonetheless). He has a major failing in not being able to delegate and take contrary views to his own. Not only was caucus not included in decision making, cabinet was excluded also. Decision making was left to the 'gang of four', and then Rudd tried to run the whole ship single handedly, working him and his staff for ridiculously long hours. He was losing it. A speech he made not long before his removal was little more than a string of empty catch phrases that made no sense at all, even in polispeak. It was the kind of speech that people don't listen to, and when people stop listening, you are finished.

People like him still, he is better than anything the libs have to offer, I would be happy to see him PM again, if he has learned his lessons in how to be a Prime Minister, not superman.

9th July 2012, 08:08 AM	#1
Legend Focu Meu! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 10,309	ABC's Q&A Program I dislike the arts-centric episodes, so tonight's wasn't too enjoyable for me until the end when ol' Turnbull once again summoned those grass-is-greener sighs from my mouth and wistful, sideways stares to my visage. Beside the fact that it's morally antiquated lies the corollary fact that opposition to same-sex marriage legislation is politically stubborn. That Chu woman was annoying and inarticulate, and everyone else was regrettably boring. (It was very coincidental, though, that they started prattling about The West Wing, because I capriciously started watching it a few days ago and I'm very much enjoying it. I forwent an episode to watch Q&A.) I still haven't watched the last episode, mostly on account of Mirabella, but I'll muster the courage after Thursday's exam as soon as I confirm with my shrink that he's good for Friday. Would a Turnbull-lead Coalition make all hope of Labor's re-election dashed?
	__________________ Am I the only one who thinks that Legend actually does look something like a young Leonardo DiCaprio? ~ EeneyMinnieMoe ♦ Eat a potato, kid. ~ RoboTimbo ♦

10th July 2012, 01:32 PM	#2
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,650	On your final point, yes. Labor's only real chance is an Abbott meltdown. It may have just started with his calling boat people "unchristian".
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

23rd July 2012, 01:00 AM	#3
Legend Focu Meu! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 10,309	I just watched last week's episode and there was one question asked about the standard of political discourse in the country, and how parties are prone to "outright lying". It reminds me of an opinion that people espouse in order to sound shrewd when they're just being lazy. Blame is never levelled at the public. People complain about how the media outlets have screwed everyone over by focusing on Craig Thomson's alleged rendezvous with hookers rather than reporting on the intricacies of the policy flavour-of-the-day. That sort of thinking necessitates branding the media as disconnected from the pulse of consumer demand, which is a pretty big call. I mean, there's a reason we have no Colberts here. If there's a buck to be made with astute political commentary, the buck will be made by an eager someone. The consumer drives the market and people are paid a lot of money to make sure corporations are attentive. When people start complaining about politicians being useless or fraudulent, we assign blame to everyone but ourselves. We put them there, and just as it is with the media, we drive the market. Political strategists are telling politicians to speak like they have a pole up their derrieres and to avoid this word or that word because it works on us, and it works on us because we are too lazy to think too hard about the progress or regress of the nation. The culprit is the public's political apathy. They don't care what happens in Canberra and they're too "busy" to focus on anything more serious than some political scandal that nestles comfortably within their cynical and jejune views. There is no NWO conspiring to keep us stupid, it's just our own refusal to educate ourselves. Originally Posted by lionking On your final point, yes. Labor's only real chance is an Abbott meltdown. It may have just started with his calling boat people "unchristian". Fingers crossed, but I'm increasingly losing confidence that a turnaround is possible. It's still on the cards, but movement needs to start happening right now for the ALP to remain within a whisker.
	__________________ Am I the only one who thinks that Legend actually does look something like a young Leonardo DiCaprio? ~ EeneyMinnieMoe ♦ Eat a potato, kid. ~ RoboTimbo ♦

23rd July 2012, 01:22 AM	#4
wombatwal Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 854	Originally Posted by Legend Fingers crossed, but I'm increasingly losing confidence that a turnaround is possible. It's still on the cards, but movement needs to start happening right now for the ALP to remain within a whisker. I am surprised you think they have a chance. They are, particularly The worst Prime Minister ever is totally on the nose with the public, warranted or not that is the way it is. Sure, Stalin may meltdown, but it requires the blow torch to the belly by the government and media to do it. If Stalin had the same blowtorch to the belly that The worst Prime Minister ever has had I think Stalin would melt.
	__________________ http://greatsouthlandphotography.blogspot.com.au/ http://wombatsramblings.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/wombatwal/ Eats, roots and leaves.

23rd July 2012, 01:25 AM	#5
Legend Focu Meu! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 10,309	And what if they do the musical chairs with K-Rudd? We need to find a moniker for K-Rudd.
	__________________ Am I the only one who thinks that Legend actually does look something like a young Leonardo DiCaprio? ~ EeneyMinnieMoe ♦ Eat a potato, kid. ~ RoboTimbo ♦

24th July 2012, 01:23 AM	#6
Hallo Alfie Alexithymically superadjusted Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 10,001	Originally Posted by Legend And what if they do the musical chairs with K-Rudd? We need to find a moniker for K-Rudd. I think the Labor team gave us a very broad selection at the last leadership challenge.
	__________________ Alfie is a real goose. Lionking http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=14601 'Sex by surprise is a form of "rape" unknown outside of Sweden.' Bit Pattern http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...91#post8776491 'Show me a young conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.' Francois Guizot

24th July 2012, 02:43 AM	#8
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	Originally Posted by wombatwal I am surprised you think they have a chance. This. There's nothing Labor can do to stop this ship from sinking. 6 months ago I would have pointed to Howard pre-2001 and his subsequent recovery but we're just too close now, the statistical probability is completely out the window. If I was the government I'd be trying to push the biggest reforms through parliament as I could, push through the full Henry Tax Review reforms and at least leave some kind of solid legacy, make up for the squandered opportunities. With control over the Senate (with the Greens agreement) they could smash through some solid reforms that could be embedded before 2013 and would go some-way to redeeming the party for the cynical opportunism that shaped the limp-wristed attempts at reform (CPRS, MRRT which was essentially just a watered down element of the Henry Tax Review) and the spectacular lack of backbone showed in the subsequent and devastating backdowns from what were already weak reforms. Personally, I think Labor needs to burn and have some other phoenix rise from its ashes. It saddens me to see the state of the modern Labor Party, it is a moribund and institutionally decrepit hollow-shell of its former self. The factions, the career politics, the extreme obsession with daily media cycles; it's a completely dysfunctional entity. It simply can't pander to the progressive left and the blue-collar middle any more, the alliance forged in the Whitlam years has completely broken down, the two opposing forces that Labor claims to represent must be torn asunder and some kind of loose coalition formed from the wreckage. And considering Labor's parlous grassroots membership it's almost hard to see how they are going to ever recover from the tidal wave that is about to hit. They're going to have a very hard time recovering from this *********.
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	__________________ "You are the epitome of the 'pigeon playing chess'. No matter how good I am at chess, you are just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board and strut around like you've won something" "In this political climate, all of science is vulnerable to ideological attack when reality disagrees with political beliefs."

24th July 2012, 03:09 AM	#9
Legend Focu Meu! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 10,309	That, bit_pattern, was a fabulous post and I agree so much about Labor having to crash in order to rebuild as a committed centre-left party. I'm disheartened by how much conservatism runs through it.
	__________________ Am I the only one who thinks that Legend actually does look something like a young Leonardo DiCaprio? ~ EeneyMinnieMoe ♦ Eat a potato, kid. ~ RoboTimbo ♦

24th July 2012, 03:17 AM	#10
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	Originally Posted by Legend That, bit_pattern, was a fabulous post and I agree so much about Labor having to crash in order to rebuild as a committed centre-left party. I'm disheartened by how much conservatism runs through it. Something's gotta give sooner or later.
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	__________________ "You are the epitome of the 'pigeon playing chess'. No matter how good I am at chess, you are just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board and strut around like you've won something" "In this political climate, all of science is vulnerable to ideological attack when reality disagrees with political beliefs." Last edited by bit_pattern; 24th July 2012 at 03:32 AM.

22nd November 2012, 09:46 AM	#11
Legend Focu Meu! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 10,309	Did anyone watch the last episode, featuring K-Rudd and Turnbull? I'm catching up on iView and I'm exactly 10 minutes through and so far it has been great. I'm not a huge K-Rudd guy, but he does very well in front of cameras and microphones. (Unless he's trying to sing to a group of teenagers at some music festival.) Heather Ridout's comments about the GST being "old fashioned" compared to a business cash flow tax made for an interesting little soundbite. ETA: I just finished the episode and it was one of the best I've ever seen. To those who didn't catch it, you may consider it highly recommended. "Our central asset is Tony Abbott," said Rudd.
	__________________ Am I the only one who thinks that Legend actually does look something like a young Leonardo DiCaprio? ~ EeneyMinnieMoe ♦ Eat a potato, kid. ~ RoboTimbo ♦ Last edited by Legend; 22nd November 2012 at 10:45 AM.

23rd November 2012, 04:23 PM	#12
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,317	Originally Posted by Legend Did anyone watch the last episode, featuring K-Rudd and Turnbull? I'm catching up on iView and I'm exactly 10 minutes through and so far it has been great. I'm not a huge K-Rudd guy, but he does very well in front of cameras and microphones. (Unless he's trying to sing to a group of teenagers at some music festival.) Heather Ridout's comments about the GST being "old fashioned" compared to a business cash flow tax made for an interesting little soundbite. ETA: I just finished the episode and it was one of the best I've ever seen. To those who didn't catch it, you may consider it highly recommended. "Our central asset is Tony Abbott," said Rudd. Rudd has his problems. When he is rational and functioning, he is an intelligent and committed politician, (a politician nonetheless). He has a major failing in not being able to delegate and take contrary views to his own. Not only was caucus not included in decision making, cabinet was excluded also. Decision making was left to the 'gang of four', and then Rudd tried to run the whole ship single handedly, working him and his staff for ridiculously long hours. He was losing it. A speech he made not long before his removal was little more than a string of empty catch phrases that made no sense at all, even in polispeak. It was the kind of speech that people don't listen to, and when people stop listening, you are finished. People like him still, he is better than anything the libs have to offer, I would be happy to see him PM again, if he has learned his lessons in how to be a Prime Minister, not superman.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes