[Ed] Craniosacral therapy

yairhol · 23rd July 2012, 11:42 AM

Hi,
I've just heard of something called Craniosacral therapy.

Quote:

A craniosacral therapy session involves the therapist placing their hands on the patient, which allows them to "tune into the craniosacral rhythm".[2] Craniosacral therapists claim to treat mental stress, neck and back pain, migraines, TMJ Syndrome, and for chronic pain conditions such as fibromyalgia.[

Now of course this sounds bullsh** (and it probably is) but I have also found a peer reviewed journal called: Complementary Therapies in Clinical Practice
and there is a paper there which sums up:

Quote:

CST was found to be an effective means for treating lower urinary tract symptoms and improving quality of life in MS patients.

Does anyone know about this method of therapy? Does it have any theraputic abilities?
Thanks.

Soapy Sam · 23rd July 2012, 12:17 PM

Interesting typo.

yairhol · 23rd July 2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

Interesting typo.

Where's the typo exactly?
edit: nevermind...:-)

Capsid · 23rd July 2012, 01:04 PM

Poor grammar aside (see abstract), the study is poorly controlled and not blinded to the operator (difficult). There is no group that received no treatment or perhaps a treatment not on the key points on the head, so the specifc effect of CST is not established.

poblob14 · 23rd July 2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

craniosacral rhythm

Don't need to read any further. It's woo.

Although, one might also note that it seems to work on the usual ailments with large subjective components.

Edited to add: A search for this journal on PubMed reveals a number of scholarly articles on such subjects as diaphragmatic breathing therapy for diabetics, aromatherapy for postpartum depression, and reflexology for cardiac patients. Reflexology. For CARDIAC patients.

So yeah.

Spindrift · 23rd July 2012, 01:38 PM

The phrase "tunes into _____ rhythms" is pretty much a dead giveaway as BS unless you are talking about music.

Chris Haynes · 23rd July 2012, 07:56 PM

Cranial Sacral therapy is essentially a homeopathic head massage. Totally worthless.

quarky · 23rd July 2012, 10:22 PM

I have a friend that makes her living 'manipulating' the joints of the skull.
People's insurance even pays for the 'therapy'.
She asked to practice on me, and i found it to be the wooiest therapy ever.

Except aura-fluffing, i suppose.

Acleron · 24th July 2012, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by yairhol

Hi,
I've just heard of something called Craniosacral therapy.

Now of course this sounds bullsh** (and it probably is) but I have also found a peer reviewed journal called: Complementary Therapies in Clinical Practice
and there is a paper there which sums up:

Does anyone know about this method of therapy? Does it have any theraputic abilities?
Thanks.

You have to be careful about the peer reviewing in such journals. It is used to mislead people into believing that it is peer reviewed by reputable academic researchers. In reality, journals with 'complementary' or 'alternative' in their title or description are reviewed by other woo-meisters.

Aridas · 24th July 2012, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by yairhol

Does anyone know about this method of therapy? Does it have any theraputic abilities?
Thanks.

As someone who received training in various forms of massage therapy, I have a little bit of experience with Craniosacral. I, myself, wouldn't call it completely woo. My impression, though, was that it was of relatively little use. Potentially of some value for one or two minor causes/factors of headaches, at best, and the placebo effect for most of the rest of the effect.

I might still have my notes regarding it, but I don't really feel like digging them up.

Rolfe · 24th July 2012, 02:22 AM

I was talked into having it once. It is exactly that - homoeopathic head massage. The "therapist" just moved the skin of my head slightly in relation to the bones of my skull, and talked a lot of complete rubbish which had no basis in actual anatomical fact.

It's harmless, that's as much as can be said for it. Your hairdresser will give your head a much more challenging workout though.

Rolfe.

Mojo · 24th July 2012, 03:23 AM

We used to have a craniosacral therapist on the forum: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...45#post1050845

Mojo · 24th July 2012, 03:58 AM

Here's another thread which, although it started off about homoeopathy, got hijacked into a discussion of craniosacral therapy when Sarah-I showed up part way down the first page: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=40533

Bikewer · 24th July 2012, 06:09 AM

"Aura fluffers"? Really? I mean, I know what a fluffer does on a porn movie set... Does the customer get a happy ending?
Can I make money at this? Sounds like a great retirement job. Do you have to dress funny?

Dave Rogers · 24th July 2012, 06:30 AM

It worries me that anyone can even take the name of the therapy seriously. Unless, of course, they actually have got their head up there...

Dave

quarky · 24th July 2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

"Aura fluffers"? Really? I mean, I know what a fluffer does on a porn movie set... Does the customer get a happy ending?
Can I make money at this? Sounds like a great retirement job. Do you have to dress funny?

You'd have to move to Sedona, Arizona.

jli · 3rd August 2012, 07:36 AM

Here is a systematic review, which concludes that CST is useless: http://faculty.une.edu/com/jnorton/BCOHTAassessment.pdf

On Yahoo Answers, we recently had a "discussion" with a craniosacral therapist who couldn't get it under his skull

, that cranial bones fuse as we age.

Rolfe · 3rd August 2012, 02:37 PM

That's exactly what the one who did her voodoo on me thought. She was going on about feeling these bones move, and I said, look, I'm 46, this is not happening.

Rolfe.

jli · 4th August 2012, 01:53 AM

He tried to mock another skeptic by claiming, that in none of the 20 anatomy text books he had read did it say that the cranial bones fuse. When it was showed to him where, he did not declare himself as standing corrected. It was the text books that were wrong.

23rd July 2012, 11:42 AM	#1
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,403	Craniosacral therapy Hi, I've just heard of something called Craniosacral therapy. Quote: A craniosacral therapy session involves the therapist placing their hands on the patient, which allows them to "tune into the craniosacral rhythm".[2] Craniosacral therapists claim to treat mental stress, neck and back pain, migraines, TMJ Syndrome, and for chronic pain conditions such as fibromyalgia.[ Now of course this sounds bullsh** (and it probably is) but I have also found a peer reviewed journal called: Complementary Therapies in Clinical Practice and there is a paper there which sums up: Quote: CST was found to be an effective means for treating lower urinary tract symptoms and improving quality of life in MS patients. Does anyone know about this method of therapy? Does it have any theraputic abilities? Thanks.
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,403	Last edited by yairhol; 23rd July 2012 at 12:25 PM.

23rd July 2012, 12:17 PM	#2
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,905	Interesting typo.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,905

23rd July 2012, 12:19 PM	#3
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,403	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam Interesting typo. Where's the typo exactly? edit: nevermind...:-)
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,403	Last edited by yairhol; 23rd July 2012 at 12:24 PM.

23rd July 2012, 01:04 PM	#4
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,507	Poor grammar aside (see abstract), the study is poorly controlled and not blinded to the operator (difficult). There is no group that received no treatment or perhaps a treatment not on the key points on the head, so the specifc effect of CST is not established.
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,507

23rd July 2012, 01:19 PM	#5
poblob14 Thinker Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 229	Quote: craniosacral rhythm Don't need to read any further. It's woo. Although, one might also note that it seems to work on the usual ailments with large subjective components. Edited to add: A search for this journal on PubMed reveals a number of scholarly articles on such subjects as diaphragmatic breathing therapy for diabetics, aromatherapy for postpartum depression, and reflexology for cardiac patients. Reflexology. For CARDIAC patients. So yeah.
poblob14 Thinker Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 229	Last edited by poblob14; 23rd July 2012 at 01:28 PM.

23rd July 2012, 01:38 PM	#6
Spindrift Enturbulator Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 8,646	The phrase "tunes into _____ rhythms" is pretty much a dead giveaway as BS unless you are talking about music.
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.

23rd July 2012, 07:56 PM	#7
Chris Haynes Perfectly Poisonous Person Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Wacky Washington Way Out West Posts: 4,214	Cranial Sacral therapy is essentially a homeopathic head massage. Totally worthless.
	__________________ I used to be intelligent... but then I had kids "HCN, I hate you!" ( so sayeth Deetee at http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1077344 )... What I get for linking to http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/

23rd July 2012, 10:22 PM	#8
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454	I have a friend that makes her living 'manipulating' the joints of the skull. People's insurance even pays for the 'therapy'. She asked to practice on me, and i found it to be the wooiest therapy ever. Except aura-fluffing, i suppose.
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454

24th July 2012, 01:27 AM	#9
Acleron Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In a beautifully understandable universe Posts: 2,001	Originally Posted by yairhol Hi, I've just heard of something called Craniosacral therapy. Now of course this sounds bullsh** (and it probably is) but I have also found a peer reviewed journal called: Complementary Therapies in Clinical Practice and there is a paper there which sums up: Does anyone know about this method of therapy? Does it have any theraputic abilities? Thanks. You have to be careful about the peer reviewing in such journals. It is used to mislead people into believing that it is peer reviewed by reputable academic researchers. In reality, journals with 'complementary' or 'alternative' in their title or description are reviewed by other woo-meisters.

24th July 2012, 01:34 AM	#10
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,110	Originally Posted by yairhol Does anyone know about this method of therapy? Does it have any theraputic abilities? Thanks. As someone who received training in various forms of massage therapy, I have a little bit of experience with Craniosacral. I, myself, wouldn't call it completely woo. My impression, though, was that it was of relatively little use. Potentially of some value for one or two minor causes/factors of headaches, at best, and the placebo effect for most of the rest of the effect. I might still have my notes regarding it, but I don't really feel like digging them up.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

24th July 2012, 02:22 AM	#11
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,405	I was talked into having it once. It is exactly that - homoeopathic head massage. The "therapist" just moved the skin of my head slightly in relation to the bones of my skull, and talked a lot of complete rubbish which had no basis in actual anatomical fact. It's harmless, that's as much as can be said for it. Your hairdresser will give your head a much more challenging workout though. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

24th July 2012, 03:23 AM	#12
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,456	We used to have a craniosacral therapist on the forum: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...45#post1050845
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

24th July 2012, 03:58 AM	#13
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,456	Here's another thread which, although it started off about homoeopathy, got hijacked into a discussion of craniosacral therapy when Sarah-I showed up part way down the first page: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=40533
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

24th July 2012, 06:09 AM	#14
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,612	"Aura fluffers"? Really? I mean, I know what a fluffer does on a porn movie set... Does the customer get a happy ending? Can I make money at this? Sounds like a great retirement job. Do you have to dress funny?

24th July 2012, 06:30 AM	#15
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In a world lit only by fire. Posts: 17,907	It worries me that anyone can even take the name of the therapy seriously. Unless, of course, they actually have got their head up there... Dave
	__________________ "We will punish the murderer together. Our punishment will be more generosity, more tolerance and more democracy." - Fabian Stang, Mayor of Oslo SSKCAS, covert member

24th July 2012, 09:34 AM	#16
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454	Originally Posted by Bikewer "Aura fluffers"? Really? I mean, I know what a fluffer does on a porn movie set... Does the customer get a happy ending? Can I make money at this? Sounds like a great retirement job. Do you have to dress funny? You'd have to move to Sedona, Arizona.
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454

3rd August 2012, 07:36 AM	#17
jli Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 315	Here is a systematic review, which concludes that CST is useless: http://faculty.une.edu/com/jnorton/BCOHTAassessment.pdf On Yahoo Answers, we recently had a "discussion" with a craniosacral therapist who couldn't get it under his skull , that cranial bones fuse as we age.
	__________________ Cancer is not a fungus. Anaximperator-blog Last edited by jli; 3rd August 2012 at 07:40 AM.

3rd August 2012, 02:37 PM	#18
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,405	That's exactly what the one who did her voodoo on me thought. She was going on about feeling these bones move, and I said, look, I'm 46, this is not happening. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

4th August 2012, 01:53 AM	#19
jli Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 315	He tried to mock another skeptic by claiming, that in none of the 20 anatomy text books he had read did it say that the cranial bones fuse. When it was showed to him where, he did not declare himself as standing corrected. It was the text books that were wrong.
	__________________ Cancer is not a fungus. Anaximperator-blog