2016 The Movie - Page 2

mhaze · 9th August 2012, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

You keep accusing me of having no facts, yet I've provided more than you.

So your defense now is that the filmmakers are inaccurately hyping their movie?

Bizarre--even for you.

Defense? Hype? The hype is all on this thread, dude. The movie is pretty straightforward and factual. Maybe even dull. D'souza is somewhat of an intellectual. It's not biased though. Anyone could go see it and learn a hundred things about Obama that they did not know beforehand.

hgc · 9th August 2012, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

Lol, a typical liberal with no facts arguing with second hand pap. Hey, Joe, you wouldn't think that maybe the lurid stuff was just, you know, ADVERTISING TECHNIQUES?

So all that stuff in the movie trailer about Obama wanting to avenge the sins of colonialism isn't actually in the movie?

Fact: The movie trailer paints a picture of Obama intending to "downsize" America to avenge the sins of colonialism.

Baseless speculation: The movie trailer is misleading for marketing purposes.

mhaze · 9th August 2012, 04:32 PM

Didn't I already mention "neo colonialism"? Maybe it's not understood what that means here. Wait, I already mentioned that the movie went into that. Does that have anything to do with the assertion the movie tells you "what to worry about"?

D'Souza goes into a great deal of depth about the world view of one growing up in colonialism and makes a case that Obama has that world view, further, that few people understand that or it's import. This is in direct opposition, incidentally, to something like making a case that Obama's a socialist or a communist, although I think one could argue the two directions are not mutually exclusive.

I certainly would have to agree with him that few people have any comprehension of this part of Obama, regardless of their orientation politically. The poster says "Obama: You don't know him" and the movie pretty much proves that out.

ANTPogo · 9th August 2012, 04:40 PM

Yes, Obama's an unknown wild card. Who knows what he'll do if he's ever elected President of the United States!

Oh, wait...

JoeTheJuggler · 9th August 2012, 05:20 PM

The second sentence in this trailer is a lie:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

"Barrack Obama's journey to America can be traced back to the independence of Kenya, the land of his fathers."

But of course, Barrack Obama was born in America, so he had no such "journey to America". He was actually a natural born U.S. citizen 2 years before the Independent Republic of Kenya was founded.

Lest there be any confusion about the wording of this statement, it is placed in exact parallel to a statement D'Souza makes about himself. He was born in '47 in India just prior to India's gaining its independence.

ETA: Apparently Obama's political views are shaped by a fictional past.

mhaze · 9th August 2012, 05:35 PM

Joe, hey, calm down. Think about what you said...it makes NO SENSE. Then post again please.

JoeTheJuggler · 9th August 2012, 05:37 PM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

This trailer begins by quoting a passage from Obama's Dreams from My Father. The voiceover then says:

Quote:

Obama has a dream: a dream from his father--that the sins of colonialism be set right (?!!) and America be downsized.

What? I thought it was the conservatives who wanted to shrink the federal government, and Obama who wants to raise taxes and increase spending.

And this statement is definitely not in any way supported by the excerpt from the book.

Sure. . .attempting to extend access to healthcare to as many Americans as possible is completely anathema to the dreams of the founding fathers. That's why the framers of the Constitution only mentioned the "general welfare" of the people twice--exactly the same number of times and in the same locations as they mentioned the "common defence".

lopeyschools · 9th August 2012, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

Let's start with this, smartypants.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/2016_obamas_america/

79% liked the movie.

What exactly is this statement supposed to mean? 79% of people who posted to rotten tomatoes can't be wrong?

BenBurch · 9th August 2012, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by lopeyschools

What exactly is this statement supposed to mean? 79% of people who posted to rotten tomatoes can't be wrong?

Anybody who agrees with MHaze cannot be wrong.

Anybody who disagrees with MHaze cannot be right.

Simple, once you accept that he is omniscient.

ANTPogo · 9th August 2012, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

Let's start with this, smartypants.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/2016_obamas_america/

79% liked the movie.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sicko/

87% liked Michael Moore's Sicko.

Liberals win.

mhaze · 9th August 2012, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

....this statement is definitely not in any way supported by the excerpt from the book.....

Oh, the quote from the book must support something that the voiceover said? Why? Haven't you ever heard of a conclusion being the result of a number of facts and inferences?

What would an anti-colonialist think downsizing American influence would constitute? It would likely be quite different than the downsizing conservatives consider essential for fiscal sanity.

Originally Posted by lopeyschools

What exactly is this statement supposed to mean? 79% of people who posted to rotten tomatoes can't be wrong?

It's not at all unusual for most of the people in the audience to like a movie, and for critics to not like it. That's routine for anything science fiction, of course. But recently this was seen with "Act of Valor", a really good movie - critics hated it. I'm suggesting that a bunch of reviews which are negative about 2016 can be tossed, of course, and that what matters is whether audiences like it. And the evidence is they do.

Don't be so quick to leap to conclusions based on critics of this movie (or any other for that matter). I think pretty much anyone liberal or conservative would have little problem and enjoy watching 2016.

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Anybody who agrees with MHaze cannot be wrong.

Anybody who disagrees with MHaze cannot be right.

Simple, once you accept that he is omniscient.

Pretty much correct....I'm in the unfortunate position of having SEEN THE MOVIE...

Travis · 9th August 2012, 08:33 PM

Uh, does this movie actually present any real information about Obama that wasn't known before? Or is all the supposed "new" stuff just the baseless, poorly assembled, brain vomit accusations of D'Souza?

I just want to know how many more steel pins to shove through my D'Souza Voodoo doll.

JoeTheJuggler · 9th August 2012, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

Oh, the quote from the book must support something that the voiceover said? Why?

Because it follows the quote and it uses the same words as the title of the book which are shown as text on the screen.

It clearly implies that the "dream from my father" that Obama was talking about was a dream of getting even for the sins of colonialism and downsizing America.

JoeTheJuggler · 9th August 2012, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/2016_obamas_america/

79% liked the movie.

So when I cited comments and reviews, you said, "Lol, a typical liberal with no facts arguing with second hand pap."

Now you're using the percentage of Rotten Tomatoes users who "liked" the movie as an argument that the movie isn't warning us to worry about how things will be in 2016 if Obama gets a second term?

Regnad Kcin · 9th August 2012, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

The primary thesis is that most people don't really understand who Obama is or why he acts as he is. Considerable play is given to indonesian culture and neo colonial perspectives.

So a load of dung dust, then?

Regnad Kcin · 9th August 2012, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

The movie is pretty straightforward and factual. Maybe even dull. D'souza is somewhat of an intellectual. It's not biased though. Anyone could go see it and learn a hundred things about Obama that they did not know beforehand.

You make me laugh like a boy scout at jamboree hearing his first dirty joke after eating too many s'mores. Please post more!

JoeTheJuggler · 9th August 2012, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

It's not biased though.

Yeah, right.

Quote:

Anyone could go see it and learn a hundred things about Obama that they did not know beforehand.

Such as?

lopeyschools · 9th August 2012, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

Oh, the quote from the book must support something that the voiceover said? Why? Haven't you ever heard of a conclusion being the result of a number of facts and inferences?

What would an anti-colonialist think downsizing American influence would constitute? It would likely be quite different than the downsizing conservatives consider essential for fiscal sanity.

It's not at all unusual for most of the people in the audience to like a movie, and for critics to not like it. That's routine for anything science fiction, of course. But recently this was seen with "Act of Valor", a really good movie - critics hated it. I'm suggesting that a bunch of reviews which are negative about 2016 can be tossed, of course, and that what matters is whether audiences like it. And the evidence is they do.

Don't be so quick to leap to conclusions based on critics of this movie (or any other for that matter). I think pretty much anyone liberal or conservative would have little problem and enjoy watching 2016.

Pretty much correct....I'm in the unfortunate position of having SEEN THE MOVIE...

Well I watched the trailer and I'm going to have to pass on this movie.

http://2016themovie.com/media/

1. I'm not a fan of docudramas

2. Seems like the whole premise of the movie is a false dichotomy. Obama wants to "downsize" America and the American founders (plus Dinesh, our hero) wanted to "grow liberty by growing America."

angrysoba · 9th August 2012, 09:47 PM

Before everybody rushes out to vote for Dinesh D'Souza I should let you know that he was not born in the United States and his real name is दिनेश डिसूज़ा !

angrysoba · 9th August 2012, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

D'souza's debate with Hitchens was nothing but an exercise in the most common and shallow attacks against atheism, he even went so far as to accuse atheists of secretly believing in God.

Which Hitchens-D'Souza debate was that? XXII or XXVIII?

The interminable series of debates they both had was obviously a business arrangement and not to be taken as a serious intellectual battle.

daenku32 · 9th August 2012, 09:53 PM

Can I make a Obama 2016 prediction first?

OK, assuming Republicans hold Congress the way they have the past two years: Unemployment will be around 6%, Debt will be pretty high, and we still have deficits, but interest on the debt it is manageable due to low 2-3% interest rates.

US has had a minor re-insurgency of urban living and low fuel consumption vehicles, leading to stagnation of oil consumption. Much of this fuel still comes from Canadian tar sands.

Iran is under sanctions (duh), and is considered a rogue nation by those who do not rely upon it for cheap oil (business as usual).

Palestinian state exists in a way. Not yet recognized by US since that would require GOPers in Congress to vote for it.

We are finally out of Iraq & Afghanistan.

Trade deficit has been reduced. Big part is in increase in wages in developing countries, and China's pursuit of economic equality, which puts pressure on industries in the country. India in turn is having trouble with providing its industry with electricity required to power new plants transferred from places like China.

US has continued to see a slight degradation of middle class. It still has to compete with low wage countries, and stagnant recovery has stomped wage growth. Housing prices are nearly the same as 4 years earlier, except that new housing has stepped up to deal with increased population.

Obama administration still has to deal with instances of corruption in financial and environmental circles. Finance has continued with dirty deals and environmental issues suffer from bribes and "matching regulations" issues, where something is only considered "polluted" if it exceeds Federal allowances.

mhaze · 10th August 2012, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by daenku32

Can I make a Obama 2016 prediction first?

OK, assuming Republicans hold Congress the way they have the past two years: Unemployment will be around 6%, Debt will be pretty high, and we still have deficits, but interest on the debt it is manageable due to low 2-3% interest rates......

Low unemployment carries with it higher money velocity, hence inflation, so it is antithetical to 2-3% interest rates, even if the Fed continues or increases its purchases of treasuries above the 60% level.

I don't think many economists would agree that the 2-3% rates (artificial) could be carried on until 2016. Capital flight is already occurring, as savers can get better deals out of the USA.

But having said those things, your guesses mean that the corrections necessary to regain economic health are simply put off beyond 2016, which isn't exactly a good thing, as the corrections would involve that much more severity.

mhaze · 10th August 2012, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by lopeyschools

Well I watched the trailer and I'm going to have to pass on this movie.

http://2016themovie.com/media/

1. I'm not a fan of docudramas
...

Great reason to not see it. Hunger Games was certainly more interesting.

Originally Posted by lopeyschools

....
2. Seems like the whole premise of the movie is a false dichotomy. Obama wants to "downsize" America and the American founders (plus Dinesh, our hero) wanted to "grow liberty by growing America."

I didn't leave with that impression at all. More like take someone with an anti colonialist view, how would they change America? Well, they'd cut out the things that had annoyed them from the anti-colonist point of view. It's essentially a 19th century perspective, but D'Souza suggests Obama developed this perspective as many do in third world countries. Dinesh is not portrayed as "a hero" or someone of "moral superiority", on the contrary, he notes he grew up in a similar environment.

Mooseman · 10th August 2012, 06:32 AM

Can I see this movie for free? If not can't, I can just get my fill of misinformation and speculation right here for free? Wonderfully enough from both sides.

ANTPogo · 10th August 2012, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by mhaze

More like take someone with an anti colonialist view, how would they change America? Well, they'd cut out the things that had annoyed them from the anti-colonist point of view. It's essentially a 19th century perspective, but D'Souza suggests Obama developed this perspective as many do in third world countries. Dinesh is not portrayed as "a hero" or someone of "moral superiority", on the contrary, he notes he grew up in a similar environment.

So, setting aside for the moment that his entire thesis is laughably false to begin with, does D'Souza think that Obama "changing America" in this fashion is a good thing, or a bad thing?

mhaze · 10th August 2012, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Mooseman

Can I see this movie for free? If not can't, I can just get my fill of misinformation and speculation right here for free? Wonderfully enough from both sides.

Probably so after a while, Netflix.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

So, setting aside for the moment that his entire thesis is laughably false to begin with....

Let's neither set aside that you don't understand his thesis, nor that you've repeatedly made things up as to what his ideas were, nor that you think you can pontificate on a guy who is light years your likely superior in intelligence and education. D'Souza for fun matches wits with Sherman, Hitchins, many others, and is as comfortable with athiests as religious people, conservatives as liberals.

Yeah, let's not set aside the arrogance which the internet breeds.

ANTPogo · 10th August 2012, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by mhaze

Let's neither set aside that you don't understand his thesis, nor that you've repeatedly made things up as to what his ideas were, nor that you think you can pontificate on a guy who is light years your likely superior in intelligence and education. D'Souza for fun matches wits with Sherman, Hitchins, many others, and is as comfortable with athiests as religious people, conservatives as liberals.

Yeah, let's not set aside the arrogance which the internet breeds.

So, does D'Souza think that Obama "changing America" in this fashion is a good thing, or a bad thing?

Oh, and since you lamely dodged my question the first time, you get a bonus question: does the fact that Michael Moore's Sicko got a rating on Rotten Tomatoes nearly ten percentage points higher than D'Souza's magnum opus mean that Moore's documentary is that much more popular and accurate than "2016: Obama's America"?

Regnad Kcin · 10th August 2012, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by mhaze

...Yeah, let's not set aside the arrogance which the internet breeds.

Irony richer than a 3-layer, double-chocolate rum cake.

BenBurch · 10th August 2012, 07:13 AM

It's not that our conservative friends are ignorant; it's that they know so much that isn't so.

ANTPogo · 10th August 2012, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin

Irony richer than a 3-layer, double-chocolate rum cake.

Hey, now. Mhaze saw a movie made by someone he thinks is smart. A movie that got a 79% rating from the visitors to a website about movies!

What have you accomplished lately, hmm?

mhaze · 10th August 2012, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

So, does D'Souza think that Obama "changing America" in this fashion is a good thing, or a bad thing? ...

Hmmm....

I don't recall much in the way of moralistic or judgmental assumptions in that movie.

So are you asking what D'Souza personally believes, or what? Not that that would have much to do with the movie.

mhaze · 10th August 2012, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

Hey, now. Mhaze saw a movie made by someone he thinks is smart. ....

Thinks he's smart? Judge for yourself.

vs Hitchens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V85OykSDT8

at CPAC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZb134WAErg

ANTPogo · 10th August 2012, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by mhaze

I don't recall much in the way of moralistic or judgmental assumptions in that movie.

So are you asking what D'Souza personally believes, or what? Not that that would have much to do with the movie.

No, I was specifically asking about the movie. I know what he personally believes.

I wanted to know if the movie says anything about what this hypothetical "Obama's America" of the year 2016 (the one that Obama seeks to create because of his anti-Colonialism) would be like, and if the movie makes any assessment as to whether "Obama's America" of the year 2016 would be good for America geostrategically (and for the American people in general), bad for America geostrategically (and for the American people in general), or simply business as usual for America and Americans, no different from the way things have always been in the post-9/11 era.

ANTPogo · 10th August 2012, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by mhaze

Thinks he's smart? Judge for yourself.

vs Hitchens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V85OykSDT8

Where Hitchens schooled D'Souza, who was out of his depth and didn't know what he was talking about.

Quote:

at CPAC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZb134WAErg

Ah, CPAC. Where if you can avoid drooling on yourself, you're pretty much an intellectual giant among convention attendees.

mhaze · 10th August 2012, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

No, I was specifically asking about the movie. I know what he personally believes.

I wanted to know if the movie says anything about what this hypothetical "Obama's America" of the year 2016 (the one that Obama seeks to create because of his anti-Colonialism) would be like, and if the movie makes any assessment as to whether "Obama's America" of the year 2016 would be good for America geostrategically (and for the American people in general), bad for America geostrategically (and for the American people in general), or simply business as usual for America and Americans, no different from the way things have always been in the post-9/11 era.

Then go watch it, since you don't seem to believe comments from someone who has seen it.

ANTPogo · 10th August 2012, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by mhaze

Then go watch it, since you don't seem to believe comments from someone who has seen it.

Your comments don't seem to actually say anything about the content of the movie.

mhaze · 10th August 2012, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

Your comments don't seem to actually say anything about the content of the movie.

Okay, under the relentless pressure, I'll confess.

The movie shows beyond a shadow of a doubt the removal of the brain of Stalin and it's preservation in temporary debrained Gulag prisoners, until it could be placed in the new child of a couple unsuspecting and naive Communist sympathizers in Hawaii, as well as the evil and hidden hand which guided the Freakn'Stalin to his current status as Bamster.

fuelair · 10th August 2012, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

I've seen it. Do you have any questions?

Yes, is it completely pure made up crap or do they at least get a few of the names right?

fuelair · 10th August 2012, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

I think he's white. Sure acts like it.

Could you explain the difference to those of us who do not follow that.

Cobalt · 10th August 2012, 05:50 PM

I heard about it on the radio. And promptly decided to give no ****s about it.

9th August 2012, 04:24 PM	#41
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler You keep accusing me of having no facts, yet I've provided more than you. So your defense now is that the filmmakers are inaccurately hyping their movie? Bizarre--even for you. Defense? Hype? The hype is all on this thread, dude. The movie is pretty straightforward and factual. Maybe even dull. D'souza is somewhat of an intellectual. It's not biased though. Anyone could go see it and learn a hundred things about Obama that they did not know beforehand.
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9th August 2012, 04:26 PM	#42
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,991	Originally Posted by mhaze Lol, a typical liberal with no facts arguing with second hand pap. Hey, Joe, you wouldn't think that maybe the lurid stuff was just, you know, ADVERTISING TECHNIQUES? So all that stuff in the movie trailer about Obama wanting to avenge the sins of colonialism isn't actually in the movie? Fact: The movie trailer paints a picture of Obama intending to "downsize" America to avenge the sins of colonialism. Baseless speculation: The movie trailer is misleading for marketing purposes.
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9th August 2012, 04:32 PM	#43
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Didn't I already mention "neo colonialism"? Maybe it's not understood what that means here. Wait, I already mentioned that the movie went into that. Does that have anything to do with the assertion the movie tells you "what to worry about"? D'Souza goes into a great deal of depth about the world view of one growing up in colonialism and makes a case that Obama has that world view, further, that few people understand that or it's import. This is in direct opposition, incidentally, to something like making a case that Obama's a socialist or a communist, although I think one could argue the two directions are not mutually exclusive. I certainly would have to agree with him that few people have any comprehension of this part of Obama, regardless of their orientation politically. The poster says "Obama: You don't know him" and the movie pretty much proves that out.
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9th August 2012, 04:40 PM	#44
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,322	Yes, Obama's an unknown wild card. Who knows what he'll do if he's ever elected President of the United States! Oh, wait...
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9th August 2012, 05:35 PM	#46
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Joe, hey, calm down. Think about what you said...it makes NO SENSE. Then post again please.
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9th August 2012, 06:17 PM	#48
lopeyschools Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: West Coast - BC Posts: 372	Originally Posted by mhaze Let's start with this, smartypants. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/2016_obamas_america/ 79% liked the movie. What exactly is this statement supposed to mean? 79% of people who posted to rotten tomatoes can't be wrong?

9th August 2012, 06:46 PM	#49
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,093	Originally Posted by lopeyschools What exactly is this statement supposed to mean? 79% of people who posted to rotten tomatoes can't be wrong? Anybody who agrees with MHaze cannot be wrong. Anybody who disagrees with MHaze cannot be right. Simple, once you accept that he is omniscient.
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9th August 2012, 06:52 PM	#50
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,322	Originally Posted by mhaze Let's start with this, smartypants. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/2016_obamas_america/ 79% liked the movie. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sicko/ 87% liked Michael Moore's Sicko. Liberals win.
	__________________ "A nation can survive with kufr, but not with zulm." - ʿAlī ibn Abī Ṭālib "No more hurting people" - Martin William Richard Currently Reading: Righteous Victims, by Benny Morris

9th August 2012, 07:40 PM	#51
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler ....this statement is definitely not in any way supported by the excerpt from the book..... Oh, the quote from the book must support something that the voiceover said? Why? Haven't you ever heard of a conclusion being the result of a number of facts and inferences? What would an anti-colonialist think downsizing American influence would constitute? It would likely be quite different than the downsizing conservatives consider essential for fiscal sanity. Originally Posted by lopeyschools What exactly is this statement supposed to mean? 79% of people who posted to rotten tomatoes can't be wrong? It's not at all unusual for most of the people in the audience to like a movie, and for critics to not like it. That's routine for anything science fiction, of course. But recently this was seen with "Act of Valor", a really good movie - critics hated it. I'm suggesting that a bunch of reviews which are negative about 2016 can be tossed, of course, and that what matters is whether audiences like it. And the evidence is they do. Don't be so quick to leap to conclusions based on critics of this movie (or any other for that matter). I think pretty much anyone liberal or conservative would have little problem and enjoy watching 2016. Originally Posted by BenBurch Anybody who agrees with MHaze cannot be wrong. Anybody who disagrees with MHaze cannot be right. Simple, once you accept that he is omniscient. Pretty much correct....I'm in the unfortunate position of having SEEN THE MOVIE...
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9th August 2012, 08:33 PM	#52
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,938	Uh, does this movie actually present any *real* information about Obama that wasn't known before? Or is all the supposed "new" stuff just the baseless, poorly assembled, brain vomit accusations of D'Souza? I just want to know how many more steel pins to shove through my D'Souza Voodoo doll.
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9th August 2012, 09:00 PM	#53
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,696	Originally Posted by mhaze Oh, the quote from the book must support something that the voiceover said? Why? Because it follows the quote and it uses the same words as the title of the book which are shown as text on the screen. It clearly implies that the "dream from my father" that Obama was talking about was a dream of getting even for the sins of colonialism and downsizing America.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

9th August 2012, 09:03 PM	#54
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,696	Originally Posted by mhaze http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/2016_obamas_america/ 79% liked the movie. So when I cited comments and reviews, you said, "Lol, a typical liberal with no facts arguing with second hand pap." Now you're using the percentage of Rotten Tomatoes users who "liked" the movie as an argument that the movie isn't warning us to worry about how things will be in 2016 if Obama gets a second term?
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

9th August 2012, 09:10 PM	#55
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 6,205	Originally Posted by mhaze The primary thesis is that most people don't really understand who Obama is or why he acts as he is. Considerable play is given to indonesian culture and neo colonial perspectives. So a load of dung dust, then?
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9th August 2012, 09:17 PM	#56
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 6,205	Originally Posted by mhaze The movie is pretty straightforward and factual. Maybe even dull. D'souza is somewhat of an intellectual. It's not biased though. Anyone could go see it and learn a hundred things about Obama that they did not know beforehand. You make me laugh like a boy scout at jamboree hearing his first dirty joke after eating too many s'mores. Please post more!
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9th August 2012, 09:17 PM	#57
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,696	Originally Posted by mhaze It's not biased though. Yeah, right. Quote: Anyone could go see it and learn a hundred things about Obama that they did not know beforehand. Such as?
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9th August 2012, 09:37 PM	#58
lopeyschools Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: West Coast - BC Posts: 372	Originally Posted by mhaze Oh, the quote from the book must support something that the voiceover said? Why? Haven't you ever heard of a conclusion being the result of a number of facts and inferences? What would an anti-colonialist think downsizing American influence would constitute? It would likely be quite different than the downsizing conservatives consider essential for fiscal sanity. It's not at all unusual for most of the people in the audience to like a movie, and for critics to not like it. That's routine for anything science fiction, of course. But recently this was seen with "Act of Valor", a really good movie - critics hated it. I'm suggesting that a bunch of reviews which are negative about 2016 can be tossed, of course, and that what matters is whether audiences like it. And the evidence is they do. Don't be so quick to leap to conclusions based on critics of this movie (or any other for that matter). I think pretty much anyone liberal or conservative would have little problem and enjoy watching 2016. Pretty much correct....I'm in the unfortunate position of having SEEN THE MOVIE... Well I watched the trailer and I'm going to have to pass on this movie. http://2016themovie.com/media/ 1. I'm not a fan of docudramas 2. Seems like the whole premise of the movie is a false dichotomy. Obama wants to "downsize" America and the American founders (plus Dinesh, our hero) wanted to "grow liberty by growing America."

9th August 2012, 09:47 PM	#59
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,520	Before everybody rushes out to vote for Dinesh D'Souza I should let you know that he was not born in the United States and his real name is दिनेश डिसूज़ा !

9th August 2012, 09:51 PM	#60
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,520	Originally Posted by Halfcentaur D'souza's debate with Hitchens was nothing but an exercise in the most common and shallow attacks against atheism, he even went so far as to accuse atheists of secretly believing in God. Which Hitchens-D'Souza debate was that? XXII or XXVIII? The interminable series of debates they both had was obviously a business arrangement and not to be taken as a serious intellectual battle.

9th August 2012, 09:53 PM	#61
daenku32 Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,982	Can I make a Obama 2016 prediction first? OK, assuming Republicans hold Congress the way they have the past two years: Unemployment will be around 6%, Debt will be pretty high, and we still have deficits, but interest on the debt it is manageable due to low 2-3% interest rates. US has had a minor re-insurgency of urban living and low fuel consumption vehicles, leading to stagnation of oil consumption. Much of this fuel still comes from Canadian tar sands. Iran is under sanctions (duh), and is considered a rogue nation by those who do not rely upon it for cheap oil (business as usual). Palestinian state exists in a way. Not yet recognized by US since that would require GOPers in Congress to vote for it. We are finally out of Iraq & Afghanistan. Trade deficit has been reduced. Big part is in increase in wages in developing countries, and China's pursuit of economic equality, which puts pressure on industries in the country. India in turn is having trouble with providing its industry with electricity required to power new plants transferred from places like China. US has continued to see a slight degradation of middle class. It still has to compete with low wage countries, and stagnant recovery has stomped wage growth. Housing prices are nearly the same as 4 years earlier, except that new housing has stepped up to deal with increased population. Obama administration still has to deal with instances of corruption in financial and environmental circles. Finance has continued with dirty deals and environmental issues suffer from bribes and "matching regulations" issues, where something is only considered "polluted" if it exceeds Federal allowances.

10th August 2012, 04:31 AM	#62
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by daenku32 Can I make a Obama 2016 prediction first? OK, assuming Republicans hold Congress the way they have the past two years: Unemployment will be around 6%, Debt will be pretty high, and we still have deficits, but interest on the debt it is manageable due to low 2-3% interest rates...... Low unemployment carries with it higher money velocity, hence inflation, so it is antithetical to 2-3% interest rates, even if the Fed continues or increases its purchases of treasuries above the 60% level. I don't think many economists would agree that the 2-3% rates (artificial) could be carried on until 2016. Capital flight is already occurring, as savers can get better deals out of the USA. But having said those things, your guesses mean that the corrections necessary to regain economic health are simply put off beyond 2016, which isn't exactly a good thing, as the corrections would involve that much more severity.
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10th August 2012, 04:35 AM	#63
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by lopeyschools Well I watched the trailer and I'm going to have to pass on this movie. http://2016themovie.com/media/ 1. I'm not a fan of docudramas ... Great reason to not see it. Hunger Games was certainly more interesting. Originally Posted by lopeyschools .... 2. Seems like the whole premise of the movie is a false dichotomy. Obama wants to "downsize" America and the American founders (plus Dinesh, our hero) wanted to "grow liberty by growing America." I didn't leave with that impression at all. More like take someone with an anti colonialist view, how would they change America? Well, they'd cut out the things that had annoyed them from the anti-colonist point of view. It's essentially a 19th century perspective, but D'Souza suggests Obama developed this perspective as many do in third world countries. Dinesh is not portrayed as "a hero" or someone of "moral superiority", on the contrary, he notes he grew up in a similar environment.
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10th August 2012, 06:32 AM	#64
Mooseman Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 169	Can I see this movie for free? If not can't, I can just get my fill of misinformation and speculation right here for free? Wonderfully enough from both sides.
Mooseman Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 169

10th August 2012, 06:35 AM	#65
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,322	Originally Posted by mhaze More like take someone with an anti colonialist view, how would they change America? Well, they'd cut out the things that had annoyed them from the anti-colonist point of view. It's essentially a 19th century perspective, but D'Souza suggests Obama developed this perspective as many do in third world countries. Dinesh is not portrayed as "a hero" or someone of "moral superiority", on the contrary, he notes he grew up in a similar environment. So, setting aside for the moment that his entire thesis is laughably false to begin with, does D'Souza think that Obama "changing America" in this fashion is a good thing, or a bad thing?
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10th August 2012, 06:50 AM	#66
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by Mooseman Can I see this movie for free? If not can't, I can just get my fill of misinformation and speculation right here for free? Wonderfully enough from both sides. Probably so after a while, Netflix. Originally Posted by ANTPogo So, setting aside for the moment that his entire thesis is laughably false to begin with.... Let's neither set aside that you don't understand his thesis, nor that you've repeatedly made things up as to what his ideas were, nor that you think you can pontificate on a guy who is light years your likely superior in intelligence and education. D'Souza for fun matches wits with Sherman, Hitchins, many others, and is as comfortable with athiests as religious people, conservatives as liberals. Yeah, let's not set aside the arrogance which the internet breeds.
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10th August 2012, 06:56 AM	#67
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,322	Originally Posted by mhaze Let's neither set aside that you don't understand his thesis, nor that you've repeatedly made things up as to what his ideas were, nor that you think you can pontificate on a guy who is light years your likely superior in intelligence and education. D'Souza for fun matches wits with Sherman, Hitchins, many others, and is as comfortable with athiests as religious people, conservatives as liberals. Yeah, let's not set aside the arrogance which the internet breeds. So, does D'Souza think that Obama "changing America" in this fashion is a good thing, or a bad thing? Oh, and since you lamely dodged my question the first time, you get a bonus question: does the fact that Michael Moore's Sicko got a rating on Rotten Tomatoes nearly ten percentage points higher than D'Souza's magnum opus mean that Moore's documentary is that much more popular and accurate than "2016: Obama's America"?
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10th August 2012, 07:01 AM	#68
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 6,205	Originally Posted by mhaze ...Yeah, let's not set aside the arrogance which the internet breeds. Irony richer than a 3-layer, double-chocolate rum cake.
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10th August 2012, 07:13 AM	#69
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,093	It's not that our conservative friends are ignorant; it's that they know so much that isn't so.
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10th August 2012, 07:23 AM	#70
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,322	Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin Irony richer than a 3-layer, double-chocolate rum cake. Hey, now. Mhaze saw a movie made by someone he thinks is smart. A movie that got a 79% rating from the visitors to a website about movies! What have you accomplished lately, hmm?
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10th August 2012, 08:39 AM	#71
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by ANTPogo So, does D'Souza think that Obama "changing America" in this fashion is a good thing, or a bad thing? ... Hmmm.... I don't recall much in the way of moralistic or judgmental assumptions in that movie. So are you asking what D'Souza personally believes, or what? Not that that would have much to do with the movie.
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10th August 2012, 08:43 AM	#72
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by ANTPogo Hey, now. Mhaze saw a movie made by someone he thinks is smart. .... Thinks he's smart? Judge for yourself. vs Hitchens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V85OykSDT8 at CPAC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZb134WAErg
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10th August 2012, 08:46 AM	#73
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,322	Originally Posted by mhaze I don't recall much in the way of moralistic or judgmental assumptions in that movie. So are you asking what D'Souza personally believes, or what? Not that that would have much to do with the movie. No, I was specifically asking about the movie. I know what he personally believes. I wanted to know if the movie says anything about what this hypothetical "Obama's America" of the year 2016 (the one that Obama seeks to create because of his anti-Colonialism) would be like, and if the movie makes any assessment as to whether "Obama's America" of the year 2016 would be good for America geostrategically (and for the American people in general), bad for America geostrategically (and for the American people in general), or simply business as usual for America and Americans, no different from the way things have always been in the post-9/11 era.
	__________________ "A nation can survive with kufr, but not with zulm." - ʿAlī ibn Abī Ṭālib "No more hurting people" - Martin William Richard Currently Reading: Righteous Victims, by Benny Morris Last edited by ANTPogo; 10th August 2012 at 09:00 AM.

10th August 2012, 08:48 AM	#74
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,322	Originally Posted by mhaze Thinks he's smart? Judge for yourself. vs Hitchens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V85OykSDT8 Where Hitchens schooled D'Souza, who was out of his depth and didn't know what he was talking about. Quote: at CPAC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZb134WAErg Ah, CPAC. Where if you can avoid drooling on yourself, you're pretty much an intellectual giant among convention attendees.
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10th August 2012, 09:07 AM	#75
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by ANTPogo No, I was specifically asking about the movie. I know what he personally believes. I wanted to know if the movie says anything about what this hypothetical "Obama's America" of the year 2016 (the one that Obama seeks to create because of his anti-Colonialism) would be like, and if the movie makes any assessment as to whether "Obama's America" of the year 2016 would be good for America geostrategically (and for the American people in general), bad for America geostrategically (and for the American people in general), or simply business as usual for America and Americans, no different from the way things have always been in the post-9/11 era. Then go watch it, since you don't seem to believe comments from someone who has seen it.
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10th August 2012, 09:12 AM	#76
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,322	Originally Posted by mhaze Then go watch it, since you don't seem to believe comments from someone who has seen it. Your comments don't seem to actually say anything about the content of the movie.
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10th August 2012, 10:53 AM	#77
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by ANTPogo Your comments don't seem to actually say anything about the content of the movie. Okay, under the relentless pressure, I'll confess. The movie shows beyond a shadow of a doubt the removal of the brain of Stalin and it's preservation in temporary debrained Gulag prisoners, until it could be placed in the new child of a couple unsuspecting and naive Communist sympathizers in Hawaii, as well as the evil and hidden hand which guided the Freakn'Stalin to his current status as Bamster.
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