The UN is *not* going to invade Texas. Really. - Page 5

RandFan · 30th August 2012, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

It also has a huge drawback that you ignore: the fact that you admit to the cops that you killed him. So if (when probably) the cops find out that you knew the victim and had reason for wanting him dead, you are probably screwed. Versus other methods where if the cops can't prove you killed him, even if they know you have a motive, you are off the hook.

Understood, I'd go with this one. If you have a motive to kill someone then there is a link regardless. The police are often competent enough to find that link.

I understand your argument but if I had to come up with a method I think this is the best by far (assuming I couldn't get the person to go deer hunting). JMO.

The Dark Lord · 30th August 2012, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Understood, I'd go with this one. If you have a motive to kill someone then there is a link regardless. The police are often competent enough to find that link..

Yes. But a motive is not enough to convict somebody. A motive plus an admission that you actually killed that person? Good luck not going to prison.

Quote:

I understand your argument but if I had to come up with a method I think this is the best by far (assuming I couldn't get the person to go deer hunting). JMO.

I think it is a horrible way to try to get away with murder. Deer hunting isn't too bad though.

RandFan · 30th August 2012, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

Yes. But a motive is not enough to convict somebody. A motive plus an admission that you actually killed that person? Good luck not going to prison.

I think it is a horrible way to try to get away with murder. Deer hunting isn't too bad though.

I think it's one of the best. We can of course disagree.

thaiboxerken · 31st August 2012, 01:45 PM

Castle Doctrine... stand your ground.... Florida... suburb... black teenager killed.. Still on trial.

mortimer · 31st August 2012, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

I think it's one of the best. We can of course disagree.

How about invite your victim over, shoot him, then plant one of your kitchen knives on him? That wouldn't be much harder. Should we do away with self-defense laws because someone might use them as a way to murder?

RandFan · 31st August 2012, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by mortimer

How about invite your victim over, shoot him, then plant one of your kitchen knives on him? That wouldn't be much harder.

Agreed. Not only is it possible but I've no doubt *many people have gotten away with doing just that.

Quote:

Should we do away with self-defense laws because someone might use them as a way to murder?

I've not argued that we should do away with laws and I certainly wouldn't do it on the grounds of this premise alone (in fact, to do so would be just as irrational as some of the arguments in favor of stand your ground laws in that they primarily appeal to fear). For my part I'm questioning the necessity and prudence of various laws and provisions in the law and comparing the down sides with the benefits. IMO stand your ground laws are more of an emotional response to crime rather than a pragmatic solution to a problem.

*Many is a relative term. As a crime statistic I'm sure it's negligible.

tsig · 31st August 2012, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

But it attracts cockroaches, flies, corpseworms, ghouls, and cops. You have to weight the pros and cons.

Tell the cops it's part of your religion.

The cockroaches, flies, corpseworms and ghouls are the upside.

Keeps down the JW's, encyclopedia salesmen and bill collectors.

Travis · 31st August 2012, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

Yeah, we should make it safer to rob people's houses because according to random internet posters, the Castle Doctrine makes it easy to commit murder. Even though they cannot prove it has ever happened.

I would rather people did not try and shoot robbers. We have professional police forces for dealing with that stuff.

Originally Posted by mortimer

How about invite your victim over, shoot him, then plant one of your kitchen knives on him? That wouldn't be much harder. Should we do away with self-defense laws because someone might use them as a way to murder?

You have the right to try and preserve your life.

The Dark Lord · 31st August 2012, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Travis

I would rather people did not try and shoot robbers. We have professional police forces for dealing with that stuff.

I dunno about you, but I don't have a cop stationed inside my house. So if I catch some low life breaking into my house, I am just going to shoot him unless I am confident it is not necessary.

RandFan · 1st September 2012, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

I dunno about you, but I don't have a cop stationed inside my house. So if I catch some low life breaking into my house, I am just going to shoot him unless I am confident it is not necessary.

Then again you could worry about what you would do if you won the lottery. Though both are unlikely.

thaiboxerken · 1st September 2012, 01:46 PM

I'd hate to be a plumber in The Dark Lord's neighborhood.

The Dark Lord · 1st September 2012, 02:42 PM

I am pretty sure that if I need a plumber, he'll just ring the doorbell, rather than trying to break in. So his chances of being shot are zero.

tsig · 1st September 2012, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

I am pretty sure that if I need a plumber, he'll just ring the doorbell, rather than trying to break in. So his chances of being shot are zero.

So if I want to rob you all I have to do is ring the doorbell?

rwguinn · 1st September 2012, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by tsig

So if I want to rob you all I have to do is ring the doorbell?

don't be an ***, please.

The Dark Lord · 1st September 2012, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by tsig

So if I want to rob you all I have to do is ring the doorbell?

I have no idea where this comes from. The point was that I would not shoot a plumber who came to my house and rang the doorbell after I called him for his services.

To answer your question, ringing the doorbell, and then forcing your way in with a weapon might work. But it might also get you shot dead. I have loaded guns in the house, and if I got the chance I would get one and kill you.

If anybody wants to rob my house, but doesn't want to risk dying, they had better make sure I am not home.

thaiboxerken · 1st September 2012, 07:26 PM

So you answer the door with a gun in hand often?

Robrob · 1st September 2012, 07:34 PM

Really kind of parsing the law here. Unless you're in an episode of CSI there's minimal likelihood this kind of defense (inviting someone over, shooting them, using a throw down knife) is really going to work.

The Dark Lord · 1st September 2012, 07:39 PM

I never answer the door with a gun in my hand. That's just plain stupid. If I think I need the gun, I won't answer the door (not that that's ever happened).

Travis · 3rd September 2012, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

I dunno about you, but I don't have a cop stationed inside my house. So if I catch some low life breaking into my house, I am just going to shoot him unless I am confident it is not necessary.

In my experience robbers will usually flee if they find someone there irrespective of whether you are holding a gun or not. All I had to do to stop my lawn mower from being stolen was to walk outside and ask the guy doing it what he was up to.

He immediately made up some lame story about him mistaking the lawn mower for one his friend owned and took off.

30th August 2012, 09:36 PM	#161
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,421	Originally Posted by The Dark Lord It also has a huge drawback that you ignore: the fact that you admit to the cops that you killed him. So if (when probably) the cops find out that you knew the victim and had reason for wanting him dead, you are probably screwed. Versus other methods where if the cops can't prove you killed him, even if they know you have a motive, you are off the hook. Understood, I'd go with this one. If you have a motive to kill someone then there is a link regardless. The police are often competent enough to find that link. I understand your argument but if I had to come up with a method I think this is the best by far (assuming I couldn't get the person to go deer hunting). JMO.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

30th August 2012, 09:43 PM	#162
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860	Originally Posted by RandFan Understood, I'd go with this one. If you have a motive to kill someone then there is a link regardless. The police are often competent enough to find that link.. Yes. But a motive is not enough to convict somebody. A motive plus an admission that you actually killed that person? Good luck not going to prison. Quote: I understand your argument but if I had to come up with a method I think this is the best by far (assuming I couldn't get the person to go deer hunting). JMO. I think it is a horrible way to try to get away with murder. Deer hunting isn't too bad though.
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860

30th August 2012, 09:48 PM	#163
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,421	Originally Posted by The Dark Lord Yes. But a motive is not enough to convict somebody. A motive plus an admission that you actually killed that person? Good luck not going to prison. I think it is a horrible way to try to get away with murder. Deer hunting isn't too bad though. I think it's one of the best. We can of course disagree.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

31st August 2012, 01:45 PM	#164
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,995	Castle Doctrine... stand your ground.... Florida... suburb... black teenager killed.. Still on trial.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

31st August 2012, 03:43 PM	#165
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 3,479	Originally Posted by RandFan I think it's one of the best. We can of course disagree. How about invite your victim over, shoot him, then plant one of your kitchen knives on him? That wouldn't be much harder. Should we do away with self-defense laws because someone might use them as a way to murder?
	__________________ "why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid

31st August 2012, 05:43 PM	#166
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,421	Originally Posted by mortimer How about invite your victim over, shoot him, then plant one of your kitchen knives on him? That wouldn't be much harder. Agreed. Not only is it possible but I've no doubt many people have gotten away with doing just that. Quote: Should we do away with self-defense laws because someone might use them as a way to murder? I've not argued that we should do away with laws and I certainly wouldn't do it on the grounds of this premise alone (in fact, to do so would be just as irrational as some of the arguments in favor of stand your ground laws in that they primarily appeal to fear). For my part I'm questioning the necessity and prudence of various laws and provisions in the law and comparing the down sides with the benefits. IMO* stand your ground laws are more of an emotional response to crime rather than a pragmatic solution to a problem. *Many is a relative term. As a crime statistic I'm sure it's negligible.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith Last edited by RandFan; 31st August 2012 at 05:45 PM.

31st August 2012, 07:42 PM	#167
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,800	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey But it attracts cockroaches, flies, corpseworms, ghouls, and cops. You have to weight the pros and cons. Tell the cops it's part of your religion. The cockroaches, flies, corpseworms and ghouls are the upside. Keeps down the JW's, encyclopedia salesmen and bill collectors.

31st August 2012, 09:38 PM	#168
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,960	Originally Posted by The Dark Lord Yeah, we should make it safer to rob people's houses because according to random internet posters, the Castle Doctrine makes it easy to commit murder. Even though they cannot prove it has ever happened. I would rather people did not try and shoot robbers. We have professional police forces for dealing with that stuff. Originally Posted by mortimer How about invite your victim over, shoot him, then plant one of your kitchen knives on him? That wouldn't be much harder. Should we do away with self-defense laws because someone might use them as a way to murder? You have the right to try and preserve your life.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

31st August 2012, 10:12 PM	#169
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860	Originally Posted by Travis I would rather people did not try and shoot robbers. We have professional police forces for dealing with that stuff. I dunno about you, but I don't have a cop stationed inside my house. So if I catch some low life breaking into my house, I am just going to shoot him unless I am confident it is not necessary.
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860

1st September 2012, 01:36 AM	#170
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,421	Originally Posted by The Dark Lord I dunno about you, but I don't have a cop stationed inside my house. So if I catch some low life breaking into my house, I am just going to shoot him unless I am confident it is not necessary. Then again you could worry about what you would do if you won the lottery. Though both are unlikely.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

1st September 2012, 01:46 PM	#171
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,995	I'd hate to be a plumber in The Dark Lord's neighborhood.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

1st September 2012, 02:42 PM	#172
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860	I am pretty sure that if I need a plumber, he'll just ring the doorbell, rather than trying to break in. So his chances of being shot are zero.
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860

1st September 2012, 06:14 PM	#173
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,800	Originally Posted by The Dark Lord I am pretty sure that if I need a plumber, he'll just ring the doorbell, rather than trying to break in. So his chances of being shot are zero. So if I want to rob you all I have to do is ring the doorbell?

1st September 2012, 06:35 PM	#174
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,456	Originally Posted by tsig So if I want to rob you all I have to do is ring the doorbell? don't be an ***, please.
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

1st September 2012, 06:42 PM	#175
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860	Originally Posted by tsig So if I want to rob you all I have to do is ring the doorbell? I have no idea where this comes from. The point was that I would not shoot a plumber who came to my house and rang the doorbell after I called him for his services. To answer your question, ringing the doorbell, and then forcing your way in with a weapon might work. But it might also get you shot dead. I have loaded guns in the house, and if I got the chance I would get one and kill you. If anybody wants to rob my house, but doesn't want to risk dying, they had better make sure I am not home.
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860

1st September 2012, 07:26 PM	#176
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,995	So you answer the door with a gun in hand often?
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

1st September 2012, 07:34 PM	#177
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660	Really kind of parsing the law here. Unless you're in an episode of CSI there's minimal likelihood this kind of defense (inviting someone over, shooting them, using a throw down knife) is really going to work.
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660

1st September 2012, 07:39 PM	#178
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860	I never answer the door with a gun in my hand. That's just plain stupid. If I think I need the gun, I won't answer the door (not that that's ever happened).
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860

3rd September 2012, 12:44 AM	#179
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,960	Originally Posted by The Dark Lord I dunno about you, but I don't have a cop stationed inside my house. So if I catch some low life breaking into my house, I am just going to shoot him unless I am confident it is not necessary. In my experience robbers will usually flee if they find someone there irrespective of whether you are holding a gun or not. All I had to do to stop my lawn mower from being stolen was to walk outside and ask the guy doing it what he was up to. He immediately made up some lame story about him mistaking the lawn mower for one his friend owned and took off.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy