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Old 11th November 2012, 04:12 PM   #1
bikerdruid
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Vatican pledges to continue campaign of homophobia and bigotry

http://www.examiner.com/article/vati...ia-and-bigotry

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/def..._popeb%28f.jpg

Edited by LashL:  Removed hotlinked image. Please see Rule 5.


In opposition to justice, the Vatican will continue to fight against marriage equality. According to the Vatican, the Roman Catholic Church will continue their immoral campaign of bigotry and homophobia in an attempt to deny gay and lesbian individuals the right to same-sex marriage.

In two separate, strongly worded editorials this weekend, the Vatican reaffirmed the Roman Catholic Church's unequivocal opposition to marriage equality. Despite the recent moral progress of the West, the Catholic Church is determined to cling to their immoral and unjust homophobia and bigotry.
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Old 11th November 2012, 04:25 PM   #2
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And the number of Catholics will keep shrinking, so this isn't all bad news.
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Old 11th November 2012, 04:39 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
And the number of Catholics will keep shrinking, so this isn't all bad news.
Or it could be the way it is with Catholics and birth control, i.e. that the official position o the church will become less and less relevant vis-a-vis the real world. Eventually (though a long time down the road), I could see the papacy having the same impact of the real world that the English monarchs do.
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Old 11th November 2012, 04:41 PM   #4
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At least he is not being a hypocrite like Catholics who support marriage equality and use birth control while preaching to those that need it, not to use it. That is a whole other level of disgusting.

How about some criticism leveled at catholics, given that the majority are hypocrites at least the Pope is honestly following his beliefs, however misguided.
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Old 11th November 2012, 06:17 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
At least he is not being a hypocrite like Catholics who support marriage equality and use birth control while preaching to those that need it, not to use it. That is a whole other level of disgusting.

How about some criticism leveled at catholics, given that the majority are hypocrites at least the Pope is honestly following his beliefs, however misguided.
Some evidence, please?
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Old 11th November 2012, 06:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by TimCallahan View Post
Eventually (though a long time down the road), I could see the papacy having the same impact of the real world that the English British monarchs do.
FTFY.

But really, you think the Pope will become head of state of 15 other countries?
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Old 11th November 2012, 06:40 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Some evidence, please?
Seems evident. When you call yourself Catholic, you should do as the Pope (or the Vatican) says. When you don't, you're a hypocrite.

So when you use birth control - which the Pope forbids - you're a hypocrite. Or when you're in favour of gay marriage - which the Pope condemns - you're a hypocrite. Simple as that. When you're honest, and you don't agree with the policies set out by the Catholic church, leave the church and find another Christian denomination which suits your convictions. With around 30,000 denominations, here's not exactly a lack of choice.
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Old 11th November 2012, 06:44 PM   #8
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The vast majority of Catholics practice birth control with pills or condoms. I'd say that's evidence.
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Old 11th November 2012, 06:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Seems evident. When you call yourself Catholic, you should do as the Pope (or the Vatican) says. When you don't, you're a hypocrite.
Not if you're an open dissident, which is something that it actually makes sense to be if you believe that the church was founded by Jesus but corrupted by humans. If you're silent and let people think that you're following the line of Rome, that's fairly close to standard-issue hypocrisy.
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Old 11th November 2012, 07:28 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Visual Purple View Post
Not if you're an open dissident, which is something that it actually makes sense to be if you believe that the church was founded by Jesus but corrupted by humans. If you're silent and let people think that you're following the line of Rome, that's fairly close to standard-issue hypocrisy.
Shouldn't you then rather become a member of the Hare Club for Men instead of the RCC? But yeah, I can think of at least one prominent Catholic who rejects about anything the RCC stands for - including transubstantiation and the divinity of Christ - and stil calls himself Catholic.
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Old 11th November 2012, 07:39 PM   #11
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Why not form a schism if you disagree with so much of what the church says? Laziness and/or not wanting to give up brand recognition, I suppose.

btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister?
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Old 11th November 2012, 08:30 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Stomatopoda View Post
btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister?
nope...cuz he is.
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Old 11th November 2012, 10:42 PM   #13
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Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church, if you do not follow the Pope's lead you are a hypocrite and if you financially support such a criminal organisation you are scum.
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Old 11th November 2012, 10:46 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Some evidence, please?
Just to clarify, do you not accept that a majority of Catholics have used birth control?
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Old 12th November 2012, 12:51 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Stomatopoda View Post
btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister?
Wanted to know that myself. I remember the previous pope in the early years at least looked cheerful, benign and fatherly. The present pope in almost every pic seems to look like some dark lord gleefully replaying in his mind some horrible torture that he presided over in some inquisitorial dungeon.
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Old 12th November 2012, 01:18 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church
I don't see how the dogma of papal infallibility is relevant here.
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Old 12th November 2012, 02:07 AM   #17
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What about spreading AIDS by opposing condom use and covering up the abuse of children? I assume these policies will continue also.
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Old 12th November 2012, 02:16 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
I don't see how the dogma of papal infallibility is relevant here.
The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.
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Old 12th November 2012, 02:29 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
The pope decides the values of catholics
He does, but generally not by infallibility.
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Old 12th November 2012, 02:40 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Wanted to know that myself. I remember the previous pope in the early years at least looked cheerful, benign and fatherly. The present pope in almost every pic seems to look like some dark lord gleefully replaying in his mind some horrible torture that he presided over in some inquisitorial dungeon.
It's his misfortune to look almost exactly like Emperor Palpatine, even more so when he attempts to smile.
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Old 12th November 2012, 02:43 AM   #21
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I look at the whole Gay Marriage Vs Religion thing this way:

Religion is a club, and they have many rules in their special club book. If you want to be in their club, you have to abide by their rules.

To be honest, Civil Partnerships are becoming more acceptable now anyway, so I donít really see a problem.

Going by the Christian special club book, I think itís much more hypocritical that the Pope isnít publically advocating stoning homosexuals to death anyway.
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Old 12th November 2012, 03:38 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.
How do you call somebody which believe in everything catholic do, but refuse /or is not aware of) the dogma of papal infailibility ?

What is their religion ?

because if you say they are not catholic, then what are they ?

BTW from my experience it seems they are the majority around the "so called catholic" country I lived in. In fact I am pretty sure many catholic don't even know about this papal infailibility.
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Old 12th November 2012, 03:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church, if you do not follow the Pope's lead you are a hypocrite and if you financially support such a criminal organisation you are scum.
Papal infallibility is not really relevant here. The concept was only introduced in 1870, and has been used only once (and retrofitted a handful of times). The obvious problem (for the RCC) with papal infallibility is that once you've pronounced something article of fatih under infallibility, it stands for the rest of eternity. On other things, the Church can (eventually) backpedal.

What you're lookin for is papal supremacy.
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Old 12th November 2012, 03:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
It's his misfortune to look almost exactly like Emperor Palpatine, even more so when he attempts to smile.
I think you're being very insulting to the Emperor.

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Old 12th November 2012, 03:59 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Stomatopoda View Post

btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister?
I'd settle for one in which he's not giving a Hitler salute.
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Old 12th November 2012, 04:03 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.
Cherry picking what part of a religion you're going to follow is as old as religion itself. Why should Catholics have to follow the teachings anymore than any other religion?
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Old 12th November 2012, 04:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Stomatopoda View Post
Why not form a schism if you disagree with so much of what the church says? Laziness and/or not wanting to give up brand recognition, I suppose.
Do you refer to Huub Oosterhuis, or in general? Oosterhuis has enough "brand recognition" of himself, among both catholics and protestants, and he doesn't really tout that he's formally catholic. And you may read from the wiki page that the RCC kicked him out, at least as pastor, when he gave up celibacy. He simply continued to hold mass/service, outside the authority of the church.

But if you want to change the RCC from within, you run the risk of being dragged before the Inquisition - as happened with Schillebeeckx.
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Old 12th November 2012, 05:41 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
It's his misfortune to look almost exactly like Emperor Palpatine, even more so when he attempts to smile.

To be fair, he does a pretty good Gollum impression too.
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Old 12th November 2012, 05:54 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Aepervius;8764203[HILITE
]How do you call somebody which believe in everything catholic do, but refuse /or is not aware of) the dogma of papal infailibility ? [/hilite]

What is their religion ?

because if you say they are not catholic, then what are they ?

BTW from my experience it seems they are the majority around the "so called catholic" country I lived in. In fact I am pretty sure many catholic don't even know about this papal infailibility.
Protestant.
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Old 12th November 2012, 07:51 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
Just to clarify, do you not accept that a majority of Catholics have used birth control?
I know that the majority of American Catholics use or have used contraceptives. I also know that the great majority of American Catholics also say that they have no moral objections to the use of contraception. So your assertion that the majority of Catholics use birth control methods while telling others that they shouldn't do so is simply not true.
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Old 12th November 2012, 08:02 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church, if you do not follow the Pope's lead you are a hypocrite...
It is a dogma that is far from universally accepted, having even been disputed by a number of popes. So a Catholic who doesn't follow the pope's lead is not a hypocrite, but rather someone who thinks that the pope is wrong about something.

Quote:
...and if you financially support such a criminal organisation you are scum.
So my wife, who has donated money to her parish because they are actively working to improve the lives of the poor who live in the surrounding area, is "scum", is she?

How's this for a blanket assertion? If you make extremely insulting generalizations about millions of people based on your own smug arrogance, ignorance and anger, then you are a small-minded bigot and a fool.
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Old 12th November 2012, 08:04 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
I think you're being very insulting to the Emperor.

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Old 12th November 2012, 08:05 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.
Ironically, you seem to be just as determined to tell Catholics what they think as the pope is.
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Old 12th November 2012, 08:10 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Seems evident. When you call yourself Catholic, you should do as the Pope (or the Vatican) says. When you don't, you're a hypocrite.

So when you use birth control - which the Pope forbids - you're a hypocrite. Or when you're in favour of gay marriage - which the Pope condemns - you're a hypocrite. Simple as that. When you're honest, and you don't agree with the policies set out by the Catholic church, leave the church and find another Christian denomination which suits your convictions. With around 30,000 denominations, here's not exactly a lack of choice.
People work for change from within. Ever hear of the Log Cabin Republicans?
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Old 12th November 2012, 08:33 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
Viral marketing for Star Wars VII started already?
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Old 12th November 2012, 08:43 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by mutile View Post
The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God, if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.
.
"ex cathedra"... those statements made with that imprint are infallible. Without it, any statements are not binding as the word of god.
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Old 12th November 2012, 08:47 AM   #37
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Odd the righteous indignation does not appear to extend to their employees who have been buggering the children in the flock. They just get transferred.
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Old 12th November 2012, 08:56 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
People work for change from within.
That's why I stuck with the Church for years longer than I should have.
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Old 12th November 2012, 08:58 AM   #39
Aepervius
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Protestant.
Nope. Transubstantiation, the saint, the virginity of mary and many other detail make them explicitely NOT protestant.
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Old 12th November 2012, 09:06 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
People work for change from within. Ever hear of the Log Cabin Republicans?
Yes. Those are the people who want that the party that now caters to the Jim Crow-crowd moves back in the direction of the spirit of Abe Lincoln, right?

Care to name a movement of people within the RCC that works for change within? I wouldn't know. We had ẗhe "Eight of May Movement", but they disbanded themselves because most of their members had left the church, disillusioned. The RCC is a highly undemocratic organisation where policy is made by the Pope and a handful of cardinals. You better watch paint dry than that the RCC changes - correction, it has changed since Vatican II, but back in time, not in the direction society moves.
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