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bikerdruid · 11th November 2012, 04:12 PM

http://www.examiner.com/article/vati...ia-and-bigotry

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/def..._popeb%28f.jpg

Edited by LashL:

Removed hotlinked image. Please see Rule 5.

In opposition to justice, the Vatican will continue to fight against marriage equality. According to the Vatican, the Roman Catholic Church will continue their immoral campaign of bigotry and homophobia in an attempt to deny gay and lesbian individuals the right to same-sex marriage.

In two separate, strongly worded editorials this weekend, the Vatican reaffirmed the Roman Catholic Church's unequivocal opposition to marriage equality. Despite the recent moral progress of the West, the Catholic Church is determined to cling to their immoral and unjust homophobia and bigotry.

Vic Vega · 11th November 2012, 04:25 PM

And the number of Catholics will keep shrinking, so this isn't all bad news.

TimCallahan · 11th November 2012, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Vic Vega

And the number of Catholics will keep shrinking, so this isn't all bad news.

Or it could be the way it is with Catholics and birth control, i.e. that the official position o the church will become less and less relevant vis-a-vis the real world. Eventually (though a long time down the road), I could see the papacy having the same impact of the real world that the English monarchs do.

mutile · 11th November 2012, 04:41 PM

At least he is not being a hypocrite like Catholics who support marriage equality and use birth control while preaching to those that need it, not to use it. That is a whole other level of disgusting.

How about some criticism leveled at catholics, given that the majority are hypocrites at least the Pope is honestly following his beliefs, however misguided.

Foster Zygote · 11th November 2012, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by mutile

At least he is not being a hypocrite like Catholics who support marriage equality and use birth control while preaching to those that need it, not to use it. That is a whole other level of disgusting.

How about some criticism leveled at catholics, given that the majority are hypocrites at least the Pope is honestly following his beliefs, however misguided.

Some evidence, please?

ddt · 11th November 2012, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

Eventually (though a long time down the road), I could see the papacy having the same impact of the real world that the ~~English~~ British monarchs do.

FTFY.

But really, you think the Pope will become head of state of 15 other countries?

ddt · 11th November 2012, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

Some evidence, please?

Seems evident. When you call yourself Catholic, you should do as the Pope (or the Vatican) says. When you don't, you're a hypocrite.

So when you use birth control - which the Pope forbids - you're a hypocrite. Or when you're in favour of gay marriage - which the Pope condemns - you're a hypocrite. Simple as that. When you're honest, and you don't agree with the policies set out by the Catholic church, leave the church and find another Christian denomination which suits your convictions. With around 30,000 denominations, here's not exactly a lack of choice.

thaiboxerken · 11th November 2012, 06:44 PM

The vast majority of Catholics practice birth control with pills or condoms. I'd say that's evidence.

Visual Purple · 11th November 2012, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by ddt

Seems evident. When you call yourself Catholic, you should do as the Pope (or the Vatican) says. When you don't, you're a hypocrite.

Not if you're an open dissident, which is something that it actually makes sense to be if you believe that the church was founded by Jesus but corrupted by humans. If you're silent and let people think that you're following the line of Rome, that's fairly close to standard-issue hypocrisy.

ddt · 11th November 2012, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Visual Purple

Not if you're an open dissident, which is something that it actually makes sense to be if you believe that the church was founded by Jesus but corrupted by humans. If you're silent and let people think that you're following the line of Rome, that's fairly close to standard-issue hypocrisy.

Shouldn't you then rather become a member of the Hare Club for Men instead of the RCC?

But yeah, I can think of at least one prominent Catholic who rejects about anything the RCC stands for - including transubstantiation and the divinity of Christ - and stil calls himself Catholic.

Stomatopoda · 11th November 2012, 07:39 PM

Why not form a schism if you disagree with so much of what the church says? Laziness and/or not wanting to give up brand recognition, I suppose.

btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister?

bikerdruid · 11th November 2012, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Stomatopoda

btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister?

nope...cuz he is.

mutile · 11th November 2012, 10:42 PM

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church, if you do not follow the Pope's lead you are a hypocrite and if you financially support such a criminal organisation you are scum.

mutile · 11th November 2012, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

Some evidence, please?

Just to clarify, do you not accept that a majority of Catholics have used birth control?

Susheel · 12th November 2012, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Stomatopoda

btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister?

Wanted to know that myself. I remember the previous pope in the early years at least looked cheerful, benign and fatherly. The present pope in almost every pic seems to look like some dark lord gleefully replaying in his mind some horrible torture that he presided over in some inquisitorial dungeon.

Gazpacho · 12th November 2012, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church

I don't see how the dogma of papal infallibility is relevant here.

catsmate1 · 12th November 2012, 02:07 AM

What about spreading AIDS by opposing condom use and covering up the abuse of children? I assume these policies will continue also.

mutile · 12th November 2012, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by Gazpacho

I don't see how the dogma of papal infallibility is relevant here.

The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.

Gazpacho · 12th November 2012, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

The pope decides the values of catholics

He does, but generally not by infallibility.

Agatha · 12th November 2012, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

Wanted to know that myself. I remember the previous pope in the early years at least looked cheerful, benign and fatherly. The present pope in almost every pic seems to look like some dark lord gleefully replaying in his mind some horrible torture that he presided over in some inquisitorial dungeon.

It's his misfortune to look almost exactly like Emperor Palpatine, even more so when he attempts to smile.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 12th November 2012, 02:43 AM

I look at the whole Gay Marriage Vs Religion thing this way:

Religion is a club, and they have many rules in their special club book. If you want to be in their club, you have to abide by their rules.

To be honest, Civil Partnerships are becoming more acceptable now anyway, so I don’t really see a problem.

Going by the Christian special club book, I think it’s much more hypocritical that the Pope isn’t publically advocating stoning homosexuals to death anyway.

Aepervius · 12th November 2012, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.

How do you call somebody which believe in everything catholic do, but refuse /or is not aware of) the dogma of papal infailibility ?

What is their religion ?

because if you say they are not catholic, then what are they ?

BTW from my experience it seems they are the majority around the "so called catholic" country I lived in. In fact I am pretty sure many catholic don't even know about this papal infailibility.

ddt · 12th November 2012, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church, if you do not follow the Pope's lead you are a hypocrite and if you financially support such a criminal organisation you are scum.

Papal infallibility is not really relevant here. The concept was only introduced in 1870, and has been used only once (and retrofitted a handful of times). The obvious problem (for the RCC) with papal infallibility is that once you've pronounced something article of fatih under infallibility, it stands for the rest of eternity. On other things, the Church can (eventually) backpedal.

What you're lookin for is papal supremacy.

Sledge · 12th November 2012, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by Agatha

It's his misfortune to look almost exactly like Emperor Palpatine, even more so when he attempts to smile.

I think you're being very insulting to the Emperor.

Soapy Sam · 12th November 2012, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by Stomatopoda

btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister?

I'd settle for one in which he's not giving a Hitler salute.

Craig4 · 12th November 2012, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.

Cherry picking what part of a religion you're going to follow is as old as religion itself. Why should Catholics have to follow the teachings anymore than any other religion?

ddt · 12th November 2012, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by Stomatopoda

Why not form a schism if you disagree with so much of what the church says? Laziness and/or not wanting to give up brand recognition, I suppose.

Do you refer to Huub Oosterhuis, or in general? Oosterhuis has enough "brand recognition" of himself, among both catholics and protestants, and he doesn't really tout that he's formally catholic. And you may read from the wiki page that the RCC kicked him out, at least as pastor, when he gave up celibacy. He simply continued to hold mass/service, outside the authority of the church.

But if you want to change the RCC from within, you run the risk of being dragged before the Inquisition - as happened with Schillebeeckx.

P.J. Denyer · 12th November 2012, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Agatha

It's his misfortune to look almost exactly like Emperor Palpatine, even more so when he attempts to smile.

To be fair, he does a pretty good Gollum impression too.

tsig · 12th November 2012, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Aepervius;8764203[HILITE

]How do you call somebody which believe in everything catholic do, but refuse /or is not aware of) the dogma of papal infailibility ? [/hilite]

What is their religion ?

because if you say they are not catholic, then what are they ?

BTW from my experience it seems they are the majority around the "so called catholic" country I lived in. In fact I am pretty sure many catholic don't even know about this papal infailibility.

Protestant.

Foster Zygote · 12th November 2012, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

Just to clarify, do you not accept that a majority of Catholics have used birth control?

I know that the majority of American Catholics use or have used contraceptives. I also know that the great majority of American Catholics also say that they have no moral objections to the use of contraception. So your assertion that the majority of Catholics use birth control methods while telling others that they shouldn't do so is simply not true.

Foster Zygote · 12th November 2012, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church, if you do not follow the Pope's lead you are a hypocrite...

It is a dogma that is far from universally accepted, having even been disputed by a number of popes. So a Catholic who doesn't follow the pope's lead is not a hypocrite, but rather someone who thinks that the pope is wrong about something.

Quote:

...and if you financially support such a criminal organisation you are scum.

So my wife, who has donated money to her parish because they are actively working to improve the lives of the poor who live in the surrounding area, is "scum", is she?

How's this for a blanket assertion? If you make extremely insulting generalizations about millions of people based on your own smug arrogance, ignorance and anger, then you are a small-minded bigot and a fool.

NWO Sentryman · 12th November 2012, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Sledge

I think you're being very insulting to the Emperor.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65.../poperor-1.gif

Heretics! There is only one emperor. The God Emperor of Mankind, and his chosen sons, the Primarchs of the Space Marines.

Foster Zygote · 12th November 2012, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.

Ironically, you seem to be just as determined to tell Catholics what they think as the pope is.

Beerina · 12th November 2012, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by ddt

Seems evident. When you call yourself Catholic, you should do as the Pope (or the Vatican) says. When you don't, you're a hypocrite.

So when you use birth control - which the Pope forbids - you're a hypocrite. Or when you're in favour of gay marriage - which the Pope condemns - you're a hypocrite. Simple as that. When you're honest, and you don't agree with the policies set out by the Catholic church, leave the church and find another Christian denomination which suits your convictions. With around 30,000 denominations, here's not exactly a lack of choice.

People work for change from within. Ever hear of the Log Cabin Republicans?

paiute · 12th November 2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/def..._popeb%28f.jpg

Viral marketing for Star Wars VII started already?

I Ratant · 12th November 2012, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by mutile

The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites.

The pope speaks for God, if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.

.
"ex cathedra"... those statements made with that imprint are infallible. Without it, any statements are not binding as the word of god.

Craig4 · 12th November 2012, 08:47 AM

Odd the righteous indignation does not appear to extend to their employees who have been buggering the children in the flock. They just get transferred.

The Shrike · 12th November 2012, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

People work for change from within.

That's why I stuck with the Church for years longer than I should have.

Aepervius · 12th November 2012, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by tsig

Protestant.

Nope. Transubstantiation, the saint, the virginity of mary and many other detail make them explicitely NOT protestant.

ddt · 12th November 2012, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

People work for change from within. Ever hear of the Log Cabin Republicans?

Yes. Those are the people who want that the party that now caters to the Jim Crow-crowd moves back in the direction of the spirit of Abe Lincoln, right?

Care to name a movement of people within the RCC that works for change within? I wouldn't know. We had ẗhe "Eight of May Movement", but they disbanded themselves because most of their members had left the church, disillusioned. The RCC is a highly undemocratic organisation where policy is made by the Pope and a handful of cardinals. You better watch paint dry than that the RCC changes - correction, it has changed since Vatican II, but back in time, not in the direction society moves.

11th November 2012, 04:25 PM	#2
Vic Vega Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Cradle of Liberty Posts: 1,075	And the number of Catholics will keep shrinking, so this isn't all bad news.
	__________________ "The sleeping and the dead Are but as pictures. 'Tis the eye of childhood That fears a painted devil." --Shakespeare - Macbeth

11th November 2012, 04:39 PM	#3
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,211	Originally Posted by Vic Vega And the number of Catholics will keep shrinking, so this isn't all bad news. Or it could be the way it is with Catholics and birth control, i.e. that the official position o the church will become less and less relevant vis-a-vis the real world. Eventually (though a long time down the road), I could see the papacy having the same impact of the real world that the English monarchs do.
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,211

11th November 2012, 04:41 PM	#4
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525	At least he is not being a hypocrite like Catholics who support marriage equality and use birth control while preaching to those that need it, not to use it. That is a whole other level of disgusting. How about some criticism leveled at catholics, given that the majority are hypocrites at least the Pope is honestly following his beliefs, however misguided.
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525

11th November 2012, 06:17 PM	#5
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,459	Originally Posted by mutile At least he is not being a hypocrite like Catholics who support marriage equality and use birth control while preaching to those that need it, not to use it. That is a whole other level of disgusting. How about some criticism leveled at catholics, given that the majority are hypocrites at least the Pope is honestly following his beliefs, however misguided. Some evidence, please?
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11th November 2012, 06:35 PM	#6
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,406	Originally Posted by TimCallahan Eventually (though a long time down the road), I could see the papacy having the same impact of the real world that the ~~English~~ British monarchs do. FTFY. But really, you think the Pope will become head of state of 15 other countries?
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11th November 2012, 06:40 PM	#7
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,406	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote Some evidence, please? Seems evident. When you call yourself Catholic, you should do as the Pope (or the Vatican) says. When you don't, you're a hypocrite. So when you use birth control - which the Pope forbids - you're a hypocrite. Or when you're in favour of gay marriage - which the Pope condemns - you're a hypocrite. Simple as that. When you're honest, and you don't agree with the policies set out by the Catholic church, leave the church and find another Christian denomination which suits your convictions. With around 30,000 denominations, here's not exactly a lack of choice.
	__________________ Proud member of the Solipsistic Autosycophant's Group

11th November 2012, 06:44 PM	#8
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,076	The vast majority of Catholics practice birth control with pills or condoms. I'd say that's evidence.
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11th November 2012, 06:58 PM	#9
Visual Purple Thinker Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 148	Originally Posted by ddt Seems evident. When you call yourself Catholic, you should do as the Pope (or the Vatican) says. When you don't, you're a hypocrite. Not if you're an open dissident, which is something that it actually makes sense to be if you believe that the church was founded by Jesus but corrupted by humans. If you're silent and let people think that you're following the line of Rome, that's fairly close to standard-issue hypocrisy.
Visual Purple Thinker Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 148

11th November 2012, 07:28 PM	#10
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,406	Originally Posted by Visual Purple Not if you're an open dissident, which is something that it actually makes sense to be if you believe that the church was founded by Jesus but corrupted by humans. If you're silent and let people think that you're following the line of Rome, that's fairly close to standard-issue hypocrisy. Shouldn't you then rather become a member of the Hare Club for Men instead of the RCC? But yeah, I can think of at least one prominent Catholic who rejects about anything the RCC stands for - including transubstantiation and the divinity of Christ - and stil calls himself Catholic.
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11th November 2012, 07:39 PM	#11
Stomatopoda Muse Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 892	Why not form a schism if you disagree with so much of what the church says? Laziness and/or not wanting to give up brand recognition, I suppose. btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister?
Stomatopoda Muse Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 892

11th November 2012, 08:30 PM	#12
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by Stomatopoda btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister? nope...cuz he is.
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11th November 2012, 10:42 PM	#13
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525	Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church, if you do not follow the Pope's lead you are a hypocrite and if you financially support such a criminal organisation you are scum.
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525

11th November 2012, 10:46 PM	#14
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote Some evidence, please? Just to clarify, do you not accept that a majority of Catholics have used birth control?
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525

12th November 2012, 12:51 AM	#15
Susheel Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 600	Originally Posted by Stomatopoda btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister? Wanted to know that myself. I remember the previous pope in the early years at least looked cheerful, benign and fatherly. The present pope in almost every pic seems to look like some dark lord gleefully replaying in his mind some horrible torture that he presided over in some inquisitorial dungeon.
Susheel Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 600	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

12th November 2012, 01:18 AM	#16
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by mutile Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church I don't see how the dogma of papal infallibility is relevant here.
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12th November 2012, 02:07 AM	#17
catsmate1 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Dublin (the one in Ireland) Posts: 7,243	What about spreading AIDS by opposing condom use and covering up the abuse of children? I assume these policies will continue also.
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12th November 2012, 02:16 AM	#18
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525	Originally Posted by Gazpacho I don't see how the dogma of papal infallibility is relevant here. The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites. The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God.
mutile Muse Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 525

12th November 2012, 02:29 AM	#19
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by mutile The pope decides the values of catholics He does, but generally not by infallibility.
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12th November 2012, 02:40 AM	#20
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,299	Originally Posted by Susheel Wanted to know that myself. I remember the previous pope in the early years at least looked cheerful, benign and fatherly. The present pope in almost every pic seems to look like some dark lord gleefully replaying in his mind some horrible torture that he presided over in some inquisitorial dungeon. It's his misfortune to look almost exactly like Emperor Palpatine, even more so when he attempts to smile.
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12th November 2012, 02:43 AM	#21
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,317	I look at the whole Gay Marriage Vs Religion thing this way: Religion is a club, and they have many rules in their special club book. If you want to be in their club, you have to abide by their rules. To be honest, Civil Partnerships are becoming more acceptable now anyway, so I don’t really see a problem. Going by the Christian special club book, I think it’s much more hypocritical that the Pope isn’t publically advocating stoning homosexuals to death anyway.
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12th November 2012, 03:38 AM	#22
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,890	Originally Posted by mutile The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites. The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God. How do you call somebody which believe in everything catholic do, but refuse /or is not aware of) the dogma of papal infailibility ? What is their religion ? because if you say they are not catholic, then what are they ? BTW from my experience it seems they are the majority around the "so called catholic" country I lived in. In fact I am pretty sure many catholic don't even know about this papal infailibility.
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life. Last edited by Aepervius; 12th November 2012 at 03:41 AM.

12th November 2012, 03:40 AM	#23
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,406	Originally Posted by mutile Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church, if you do not follow the Pope's lead you are a hypocrite and if you financially support such a criminal organisation you are scum. Papal infallibility is not really relevant here. The concept was only introduced in 1870, and has been used only once (and retrofitted a handful of times). The obvious problem (for the RCC) with papal infallibility is that once you've pronounced something article of fatih under infallibility, it stands for the rest of eternity. On other things, the Church can (eventually) backpedal. What you're lookin for is papal supremacy.
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12th November 2012, 03:51 AM	#24
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Agatha It's his misfortune to look almost exactly like Emperor Palpatine, even more so when he attempts to smile. I think you're being very insulting to the Emperor.
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12th November 2012, 03:59 AM	#25
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,907	Originally Posted by Stomatopoda btw, is there a single photo anywhere of the current pope not looking sinister? I'd settle for one in which he's not giving a Hitler salute.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,907

12th November 2012, 04:03 AM	#26
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,398	Originally Posted by mutile The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites. The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God. Cherry picking what part of a religion you're going to follow is as old as religion itself. Why should Catholics have to follow the teachings anymore than any other religion?
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,398

12th November 2012, 04:07 AM	#27
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,406	Originally Posted by Stomatopoda Why not form a schism if you disagree with so much of what the church says? Laziness and/or not wanting to give up brand recognition, I suppose. Do you refer to Huub Oosterhuis, or in general? Oosterhuis has enough "brand recognition" of himself, among both catholics and protestants, and he doesn't really tout that he's formally catholic. And you may read from the wiki page that the RCC kicked him out, at least as pastor, when he gave up celibacy. He simply continued to hold mass/service, outside the authority of the church. But if you want to change the RCC from within, you run the risk of being dragged before the Inquisition - as happened with Schillebeeckx.
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12th November 2012, 05:41 AM	#28
P.J. Denyer Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,185	Originally Posted by Agatha It's his misfortune to look almost exactly like Emperor Palpatine, even more so when he attempts to smile. To be fair, he does a pretty good Gollum impression too.

12th November 2012, 05:54 AM	#29
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27,248	Originally Posted by Aepervius;8764203[HILITE ]How do you call somebody which believe in everything catholic do, but refuse /or is not aware of) the dogma of papal infailibility ? [/hilite] What is their religion ? because if you say they are not catholic, then what are they ? BTW from my experience it seems they are the majority around the "so called catholic" country I lived in. In fact I am pretty sure many catholic don't even know about this papal infailibility. Protestant.

12th November 2012, 07:51 AM	#30
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,459	Originally Posted by mutile Just to clarify, do you not accept that a majority of Catholics have used birth control? I know that the majority of American Catholics use or have used contraceptives. I also know that the great majority of American Catholics also say that they have no moral objections to the use of contraception. So your assertion that the majority of Catholics use birth control methods while telling others that they shouldn't do so is simply not true.
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12th November 2012, 08:02 AM	#31
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,459	Originally Posted by mutile Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church, if you do not follow the Pope's lead you are a hypocrite... It is a dogma that is far from universally accepted, having even been disputed by a number of popes. So a Catholic who doesn't follow the pope's lead is not a hypocrite, but rather someone who thinks that the pope is wrong about something. Quote: ...and if you financially support such a criminal organisation you are scum. So my wife, who has donated money to her parish because they are actively working to improve the lives of the poor who live in the surrounding area, is "scum", is she? How's this for a blanket assertion? If you make extremely insulting generalizations about millions of people based on your own smug arrogance, ignorance and anger, then you are a small-minded bigot and a fool.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

12th November 2012, 08:04 AM	#32
NWO Sentryman Proud NWO Gatekeeper Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Quantum Gate to the NWO Posts: 3,872	Originally Posted by Sledge I think you're being very insulting to the Emperor. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65.../poperor-1.gif Heretics! There is only one emperor. The God Emperor of Mankind, and his chosen sons, the Primarchs of the Space Marines.
	__________________ If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East

12th November 2012, 08:05 AM	#33
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,459	Originally Posted by mutile The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites. The pope speaks for God if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God. Ironically, you seem to be just as determined to tell Catholics what they think as the pope is.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

12th November 2012, 08:10 AM	#34
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by ddt Seems evident. When you call yourself Catholic, you should do as the Pope (or the Vatican) says. When you don't, you're a hypocrite. So when you use birth control - which the Pope forbids - you're a hypocrite. Or when you're in favour of gay marriage - which the Pope condemns - you're a hypocrite. Simple as that. When you're honest, and you don't agree with the policies set out by the Catholic church, leave the church and find another Christian denomination which suits your convictions. With around 30,000 denominations, here's not exactly a lack of choice. People work for change from within. Ever hear of the Log Cabin Republicans?
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

12th November 2012, 08:33 AM	#35
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Smack in the middle of a de Broglie wavelength. Posts: 1,147	Originally Posted by bikerdruid http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/def..._popeb%28f.jpg Viral marketing for Star Wars VII started already?
	__________________ A Novel and Efficient Synthesis of Cadaverine Organic chemistry, vengeful ghosts, and high explosives. What could possibly go wrong? Now free for download! http://www.scribd.com/doc/36568510/A...-of-Cadaverine

12th November 2012, 08:43 AM	#36
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by mutile The pope decides the values of catholics, if catholics use birth control they are hypocrites. The pope speaks for God, if you have a problem with his repugnant views, take it up with God. . "ex cathedra"... those statements made with that imprint are infallible. Without it, any statements are not binding as the word of god.