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Stumpy · 30th November 2004, 07:15 AM

Quote:

After nearly eight years of promises, the Central Intelligence Agency has at long last released the bulk of the so-called "Star Gate Archive" to the general public. At 89,901 pages, making up some 11,985 documents, the Archive is a monumental record of the US government's foray into remote viewing under code-names such as GRILL FLAME, CENTER LANE, SUN STREAK, and others, with the most widely known being STAR GATE.

You can buy the entire report on CD-ROM here..
Who's up for separating the wheat from the chaff (assuming there is any wheat)?

Soapy Sam · 30th November 2004, 07:25 AM

This is from the Department of Agriculture?

Ashles · 30th November 2004, 07:32 AM

If it worked, they wouldn't release it.

They have so it didn't.

CFLarsen · 30th November 2004, 07:40 AM

I think I would prefer to get it directly from the CIA, and not through some heavily biased source.

Who knows what they left out?

Ashles · 30th November 2004, 07:48 AM

Hmm, a search of the CIA website reveals 0 results for Stargate.

Maybe these people are lying.

So they haven't released it

So... so... it must work!

[puts foil hat back on]

Darat · 30th November 2004, 07:52 AM

For UK viewers you can catch it at 8pm tonight on SKY 1... we are talking about science fiction aren't we?

Rob Lister · 30th November 2004, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CFLarsen
I think I would prefer to get it directly from the CIA, and not through some heavily biased source.

CFLarsen · 30th November 2004, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob Lister

OK, OK....you know what I mean!

Ashles · 30th November 2004, 08:05 AM

Rob, I did not get that until you pointed it out.

I have just made a weird choking laughter noise in my workplace. It is awkward.

NarrMaster · 30th November 2004, 11:40 AM

StarGate archives? Ug?

c4ts · 30th November 2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stumpy
You can buy the entire report on CD-ROM here..
Who's up for separating the wheat from the chaff (assuming there is any wheat)?

Uhhh, shouldn't I be able to get that information for free?

Achán hiNidráne · 30th November 2004, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by c4ts
Uhhh, shouldn't I be able to get that information for free?

So does this info come from the Asguard or the Tokra?

CFLarsen · 30th November 2004, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark A. Siefert
So does this info come from the Asguard or the Tokra?

No, from Gozer the Traveller, when in the shape of a large Slor...

Ed · 1st December 2004, 06:01 AM

Well, I sent a note to them asking who released it and for a reference from a government site. We'll see.

Ersby · 1st December 2004, 06:05 AM

There was a guy on the Fortean Times forum offering these cd roms for half price. But the FTMB is down at the moment.

Garvarn · 1st December 2004, 04:18 PM

Would it really be legal for a company like these Remote Viewing dudes to sell CIA documents? If not, would the CIA really use such a company for retailing?

Best regards,
Chateaubriand

Ed · 2nd December 2004, 04:46 AM

I got a note back and the guys says that you have to look at the CIA FOIA site

http://www.foia.cia.gov/default.asp

I can't find anything. This site says "go look at the National Archives site. I did, nothing.

I recall something about these documents being realeased but not a lot more. The CIA wouldn't distribute them, some publishing organ of the government would and I suppose anyone could buy in bulk and get a discount so they could re-sell.

I am bored with this one.

KingMerv00 · 2nd December 2004, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by c4ts
Uhhh, shouldn't I be able to get that information for free?

Just cuz you paid for it the first time with you taxes? What are you, stupid?

"At 89,901 pages, making up some 11,985 documents"

I hope 89,893 of those pages are an apology letter for wasting government time and money with this trash.

Ashles · 2nd December 2004, 05:27 AM

And the other 8 pages are a list of all the highly paid experts and consultants who have enjoyed their ride on the gravy train.

You must understand I'm only saying this cos I'm jealous .

RichardR · 4th December 2004, 12:05 PM

If they got RV to work, how come they haven't found bin Laden?

Joe_Black · 4th December 2004, 03:28 PM

http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/reports...ia-request.htm

tells you how too request it there. I was thinking about it, but its alot of money for boring papers.

Soapy Sam · 6th December 2004, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichardR
If they got RV to work, how come they haven't found bin Laden?

You truly didn't know he's been working at Langley since his saucer crashed?

CFLarsen · 6th December 2004, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
You truly didn't know he's been working at Langley since his saucer crashed?

Crashing saucers....bending spoons and forks...

Why is kitchenware so important to the paranormal??

Temporal Renegade · 6th December 2004, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark A. Siefert
So does this info come from the Asguard or the Tokra?

Well, let's see whom we can dial up, then...

Azrael 5 · 12th December 2004, 05:10 PM

Anyone got any details on this,its a link from a post on Magic Cafe forum.The post says

Quote:

I believe a man called Joe Mcmoneagle, did a psychic demonstration on show for French TV (which got pulled because of a lawsuit, and was later shown on another channel) most skeptics claim it had too be fraud. http://www.mceagle.com/remote-viewing/France.shtml

Need some ammo to fire back at him,further...

Quote:

Of course the president of the International Parapsychological Association was involved (http://www.parapsych.org/), and many skeptics will claim that most parapsychology researchers are fraudsters, so of course it must of been rigged!!!

Joe_Black · 14th December 2004, 11:12 AM

Seems the is none.

Dr Adequate · 14th December 2004, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Many skeptics will claim that most parapsychology researchers are fraudsters

You can always spot a complete idiot by the quality of his straw men.

Is there a single sceptic in the entire world who thinks that "most parapsychology researchers are fraudsters"? If so, what's his name?

Joe_Black · 16th December 2004, 10:25 AM

Seems your not going too debunk Joe mcmoneagle, only attack a posters intelligence.

Dr Adequate · 16th December 2004, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe_Black
Seems your not going too debunk Joe mcmoneagle, only attack a posters intelligence.

Well, what? We've been given a link to the website by someone who claims he has special magic powers. So? I can, if you like, give you a link to the website of someone who says she's an ambassador for an alien civilisation. I can also show you a website by someone who claims she's a Faery Princess. I can link you to bleedin' Uri Gellers website, and you can learn about how he claims to bend spoons. Sheesh. People make all sort of strange claims. This guy is making, on his own behalf, a strange claim about his supposed powers without evidence. This needs debunking? It hasn't even been bunked.

People who invent straw men instead of dealing with the real issues are indeed complete idiots, cowering from reality. This is not an "attack" on the poster's intelligence --- it's an accurate assessment of it.

Joe_Black · 18th December 2004, 05:34 AM

So sorry Dr Adequate your quite right!

CptColumbo · 18th December 2004, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashles
If it worked, they wouldn't release it.

They have so it didn't.

Unless it's a double-bluff.

Dum..Dum..Dum..

Beady · 19th December 2004, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stumpy
You can buy the entire report on CD-ROM here..
Who's up for separating the wheat from the chaff (assuming there is any wheat)?

Well, I do find it odd that it's available in CD form from a private vendor, but in neither print nor CD form from the Government Printing Office.

[This is the edited/added part]

I just sent this email to the US Government at this site, under the subject "Consumer Protection":

Quote:

Is this a legitimate product: http://www.rviewer.com/SGArchive.html ?

That is, for my $100, would I truly get authentic copies of reports of tests performed or commissioned by the CIA on Remote Viewing? Does the CIA, as the ad says, sell the same material?

Today is Sunday; they promise a response within two days (business days, I assume)

Also, I don't know what it means, but if you "View" the RVIS page info, you'll see it was written December 14 and expires December 19 (tonight).

Dr Adequate · 7th January 2005, 11:13 AM

Bump.

Any results, Beady?

Beady · 8th January 2005, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
Bump.

Any results, Beady?

Sorry about not getting back, but it was kind of disappointing although I should have expected it. The reply was just a standard "If you're unsure about a product or company, contact the local Better Business Bureau."

OTOH, I mentioned these CDs to a coworker who's into RV, and I think he's actually going to buy a set. I tried to save him some money by printing out the The Skeptic's Dictionary article, but I guess he's richer than I am.

My coworker is a nice enough guy, but I have the uncomfortable feeling that I'm going to wind up firewalking, remote viewing and all that other crap if I'm not careful. I guess he's going to some sort of RV "Institute" (Madison? Monroe? Something like that) on vacation. My own vacation is going to be to Disneyworld.

Garrette · 10th January 2005, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Black:

Seems your not going too debunk Joe mcmoneagle, only attack a posters intelligence.

McMoneagle was also for a while a member of the project eventually called Stargate.

You want him debunked? Look at internal inconsistency. You can find the training manual on how RV was done at Stargate. McMoneagle doesn't do it that way now that he does it for money. You see, at Stargate, it was long and inaccurate process and not conducive to a quick sit-down like McMoneagle did for the French and like he has done a few time for Japanese television.

Another guy at Stargate was Paul Smith (who owns the rviewer.com site selling the purported CIA CDs). He says McMoneagle's new methods don't work.

Smith makes money off of it now, too, and claims to be an accomplished RVer himself. He has his own internal inconsistencies.

One more thing: At Stargate, there were six levels of RV, with the 6th being the most proficient and accurate. Only one person, according to Smith, made it to the 6th level; he and his successess are, unfortunately, anonymous. Smith and McMoneagle never made it past 3rd level which, you'll discover upon reading the manual, does not demonstrate the accuracy McMoneagle claims in his television shows.

I can't tell if you think McMoneagle is real or not or worth a true investigation. If you do, then I suggest you prove it to us. Better yet, assume a truly skeptical attitude and try to poke holes in your belief.

30th November 2004, 07:15 AM	#1
Stumpy Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 177	CIA releases STARGATE archive Quote: After nearly eight years of promises, the Central Intelligence Agency has at long last released the bulk of the so-called "Star Gate Archive" to the general public. At 89,901 pages, making up some 11,985 documents, the Archive is a monumental record of the US government's foray into remote viewing under code-names such as GRILL FLAME, CENTER LANE, SUN STREAK, and others, with the most widely known being STAR GATE. You can buy the entire report on CD-ROM here.. Who's up for separating the wheat from the chaff (assuming there is any wheat)?
Stumpy Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 177	__________________ Fellow member of sooper sekrit KC appreciation society

30th November 2004, 07:25 AM	#2
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,929	This is from the Department of Agriculture?
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,929

30th November 2004, 07:32 AM	#3
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	If it worked, they wouldn't release it. They have so it didn't.
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell No one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate - Ivars Peterson

30th November 2004, 07:40 AM	#4
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	I think I would prefer to get it directly from the CIA, and not through some heavily biased source. Who knows what they left out?
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

30th November 2004, 07:48 AM	#5
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	Hmm, a search of the CIA website reveals 0 results for Stargate. Maybe these people are lying. So they haven't released it So... so... it must work! [puts foil hat back on]
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell No one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate - Ivars Peterson

30th November 2004, 07:52 AM	#6
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,990	For UK viewers you can catch it at 8pm tonight on SKY 1... we are talking about science fiction aren't we?
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

30th November 2004, 08:01 AM	#7
Rob Lister Suspended Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 8,523	Quote: Originally posted by CFLarsen I think I would prefer to get it directly from the CIA, and not through some heavily biased source.

30th November 2004, 08:04 AM	#8
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Quote: Originally posted by Rob Lister OK, OK....you know what I mean!
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

30th November 2004, 08:05 AM	#9
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	Rob, I did not get that until you pointed it out. I have just made a weird choking laughter noise in my workplace. It is awkward.
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell No one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate - Ivars Peterson

30th November 2004, 11:40 AM	#10
NarrMaster Scholar Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 55	StarGate archives? Ug?
NarrMaster Scholar Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 55	__________________ <SMALL>TUCKER CARLSON: You had John Kerry on your show and you sniff his throne and you're accusing us of partisan hackery? JON STEWART: Absolutely. CARLSON: You've got to be kidding me. He comes on and you... STEWART: You're on CNN. The show that leads into me is puppets making crank phone calls. What is wrong with you? - 10/15/04, Crossfire- CNN</SMALL>

30th November 2004, 05:46 PM	#11
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Your base Posts: 8,427	Re: CIA releases STARGATE archive Quote: Originally posted by Stumpy You can buy the entire report on CD-ROM here.. Who's up for separating the wheat from the chaff (assuming there is any wheat)? Uhhh, shouldn't I be able to get that information for free?
	__________________ Ha ha ha ha.... Stupid signature size limit.

30th November 2004, 09:32 PM	#12
Achán hiNidráne Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Muskego, WI. Posts: 3,979	Re: Re: CIA releases STARGATE archive Quote: Originally posted by c4ts Uhhh, shouldn't I be able to get that information for free? So does this info come from the Asguard or the Tokra?
	__________________ "As the Corpse Lord knows, men today are ill-trained--ignoble: naught but wet anuses dribbling childish terrors and superstitions! Thus is knowledge--history, science, the world of the ancients--lost, never to be regained!" --M.A.R. Barker, "The Man of Gold"

30th November 2004, 11:10 PM	#13
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Re: Re: Re: CIA releases STARGATE archive Quote: Originally posted by Mark A. Siefert So does this info come from the Asguard or the Tokra? No, from Gozer the Traveller, when in the shape of a large Slor...
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

1st December 2004, 06:01 AM	#14
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Well, I sent a note to them asking who released it and for a reference from a government site. We'll see.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

1st December 2004, 06:05 AM	#15
Ersby Fortean Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 1,840	There was a guy on the Fortean Times forum offering these cd roms for half price. But the FTMB is down at the moment.
	__________________ "Once a man admits complete and unshakeable faith in his own integrity, he is in an excellent frame of mind to be approached by con men." David W. Maurer, "The Big Con" Updated: History of Psi in the Ganzfeld 1974-2010

1st December 2004, 04:18 PM	#16
Garvarn Thinker Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 206	Would it really be legal for a company like these Remote Viewing dudes to sell CIA documents? If not, would the CIA really use such a company for retailing? Best regards, Chateaubriand
	__________________ Formerly known as "Chateaubriand". http://garvarn.blogspot.com/

2nd December 2004, 04:46 AM	#17
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	I got a note back and the guys says that you have to look at the CIA FOIA site http://www.foia.cia.gov/default.asp I can't find anything. This site says "go look at the National Archives site. I did, nothing. I recall something about these documents being realeased but not a lot more. The CIA wouldn't distribute them, some publishing organ of the government would and I suppose anyone could buy in bulk and get a discount so they could re-sell. I am bored with this one.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

2nd December 2004, 05:13 AM	#18
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Re: Re: CIA releases STARGATE archive Quote: Originally posted by c4ts Uhhh, shouldn't I be able to get that information for free? Just cuz you paid for it the first time with you taxes? What are you, stupid? "At 89,901 pages, making up some 11,985 documents" I hope 89,893 of those pages are an apology letter for wasting government time and money with this trash.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

2nd December 2004, 05:27 AM	#19
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	And the other 8 pages are a list of all the highly paid experts and consultants who have enjoyed their ride on the gravy train. You must understand I'm only saying this cos I'm jealous .
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell No one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate - Ivars Peterson

4th December 2004, 12:05 PM	#20
RichardR Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,281	If they got RV to work, how come they haven't found bin Laden?
RichardR Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,281

4th December 2004, 03:28 PM	#21
Joe_Black Thinker Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 136	http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/reports...ia-request.htm tells you how too request it there. I was thinking about it, but its alot of money for boring papers.

6th December 2004, 04:48 AM	#22
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,929	Quote: Originally posted by RichardR If they got RV to work, how come they haven't found bin Laden? You truly didn't know he's been working at Langley since his saucer crashed?
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,929

6th December 2004, 05:19 AM	#23
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Quote: Originally posted by Soapy Sam You truly didn't know he's been working at Langley since his saucer crashed? Crashing saucers....bending spoons and forks... Why is kitchenware so important to the paranormal??
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

6th December 2004, 04:37 PM	#24
Temporal Renegade Last of the Time Lords Join Date: May 2003 Location: University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople Posts: 1,893	Re: Re: Re: CIA releases STARGATE archive Quote: Originally posted by Mark A. Siefert So does this info come from the Asguard or the Tokra? Well, let's see whom we can dial up, then...
	__________________ "Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED

12th December 2004, 05:10 PM	#25
Azrael 5 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 5,042	Anyone got any details on this,its a link from a post on Magic Cafe forum.The post says Quote: I believe a man called Joe Mcmoneagle, did a psychic demonstration on show for French TV (which got pulled because of a lawsuit, and was later shown on another channel) most skeptics claim it had too be fraud. http://www.mceagle.com/remote-viewing/France.shtml Need some ammo to fire back at him,further... Quote: Of course the president of the International Parapsychological Association was involved (http://www.parapsych.org/), and many skeptics will claim that most parapsychology researchers are fraudsters, so of course it must of been rigged!!!
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown

14th December 2004, 11:12 AM	#26
Joe_Black Thinker Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 136	Seems the is none.

14th December 2004, 12:12 PM	#27
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Quote: Many skeptics will claim that most parapsychology researchers are fraudsters You can always spot a complete idiot by the quality of his straw men. Is there a single sceptic in the entire world who thinks that "most parapsychology researchers are fraudsters"? If so, what's his name?

16th December 2004, 10:25 AM	#28
Joe_Black Thinker Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 136	Seems your not going too debunk Joe mcmoneagle, only attack a posters intelligence.

16th December 2004, 10:54 AM	#29
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Quote: Originally posted by Joe_Black Seems your not going too debunk Joe mcmoneagle, only attack a posters intelligence. Well, what? We've been given a link to the website by someone who claims he has special magic powers. So? I can, if you like, give you a link to the website of someone who says she's an ambassador for an alien civilisation. I can also show you a website by someone who claims she's a Faery Princess. I can link you to bleedin' Uri Gellers website, and you can learn about how he claims to bend spoons. Sheesh. People make all sort of strange claims. This guy is making, on his own behalf, a strange claim about his supposed powers without evidence. This needs debunking? It hasn't even been bunked. People who invent straw men instead of dealing with the real issues are indeed complete idiots, cowering from reality. This is not an "attack" on the poster's intelligence --- it's an accurate assessment of it.

18th December 2004, 05:34 AM	#30
Joe_Black Thinker Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 136	So sorry Dr Adequate your quite right!

18th December 2004, 07:52 PM	#31
CptColumbo Just One More Question Join Date: May 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 9,153	Quote: Originally posted by Ashles If it worked, they wouldn't release it. They have so it didn't. Unless it's a double-bluff. Dum..Dum..Dum..
	__________________ I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office" The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling

19th December 2004, 03:43 AM	#32
Beady Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 5,495	Re: CIA releases STARGATE archive Quote: Originally posted by Stumpy You can buy the entire report on CD-ROM here.. Who's up for separating the wheat from the chaff (assuming there is any wheat)? Well, I do find it odd that it's available in CD form from a private vendor, but in neither print nor CD form from the Government Printing Office. [This is the edited/added part] I just sent this email to the US Government at this site, under the subject "Consumer Protection": Quote: Is this a legitimate product: http://www.rviewer.com/SGArchive.html ? That is, for my $100, would I truly get authentic copies of reports of tests performed or commissioned by the CIA on Remote Viewing? Does the CIA, as the ad says, sell the same material? Today is Sunday; they promise a response within two days (business days, I assume) Also, I don't know what it means, but if you "View" the RVIS page info, you'll see it was written December 14 and expires December 19 (tonight).
	__________________ I tolerate with utmost latitude the right of others to differ with me in opinion without imputing to them criminality. I know too well all the weaknesses and uncertainty of human reason to wonder at its different results. -- Thomas Jefferson I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. -- Thomas Jefferson

7th January 2005, 11:13 AM	#33
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Bump. Any results, Beady?

8th January 2005, 12:55 AM	#34
Beady Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 5,495	Quote: Originally posted by Dr Adequate Bump. Any results, Beady? Sorry about not getting back, but it was kind of disappointing although I should have expected it. The reply was just a standard "If you're unsure about a product or company, contact the local Better Business Bureau." OTOH, I mentioned these CDs to a coworker who's into RV, and I think he's actually going to buy a set. I tried to save him some money by printing out the The Skeptic's Dictionary article, but I guess he's richer than I am. My coworker is a nice enough guy, but I have the uncomfortable feeling that I'm going to wind up firewalking, remote viewing and all that other crap if I'm not careful. I guess he's going to some sort of RV "Institute" (Madison? Monroe? Something like that) on vacation. My own vacation is going to be to Disneyworld.
	__________________ I tolerate with utmost latitude the right of others to differ with me in opinion without imputing to them criminality. I know too well all the weaknesses and uncertainty of human reason to wonder at its different results. -- Thomas Jefferson I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. -- Thomas Jefferson

10th January 2005, 08:15 AM	#35
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,647	Quote: Originally posted by Joe Black: Seems your not going too debunk Joe mcmoneagle, only attack a posters intelligence. McMoneagle was also for a while a member of the project eventually called Stargate. You want him debunked? Look at internal inconsistency. You can find the training manual on how RV was done at Stargate. McMoneagle doesn't do it that way now that he does it for money. You see, at Stargate, it was long and inaccurate process and not conducive to a quick sit-down like McMoneagle did for the French and like he has done a few time for Japanese television. Another guy at Stargate was Paul Smith (who owns the rviewer.com site selling the purported CIA CDs). He says McMoneagle's new methods don't work. Smith makes money off of it now, too, and claims to be an accomplished RVer himself. He has his own internal inconsistencies. One more thing: At Stargate, there were six levels of RV, with the 6th being the most proficient and accurate. Only one person, according to Smith, made it to the 6th level; he and his successess are, unfortunately, anonymous. Smith and McMoneagle never made it past 3rd level which, you'll discover upon reading the manual, does not demonstrate the accuracy McMoneagle claims in his television shows. I can't tell if you think McMoneagle is real or not or worth a true investigation. If you do, then I suggest you prove it to us. Better yet, assume a truly skeptical attitude and try to poke holes in your belief.