The plans of God - Page 90

Paulhoff · 15th December 2012, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by AdMan

It seems, according to his OP, that edge seems to think this tragedy must have been part of God's plan:

Highlight added.

edge, care to comment and tell us why your god is such a despicable monster, if he does exist?

They are so used to having others of their belief back them up when the logic of their beliefs make no sense, that they don't see how messed up their thinking is.

Paul

edge · 17th December 2012, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by AdMan

It seems, according to his OP, that edge seems to think this tragedy must have been part of God's plan:

Highlight added.

edge, care to comment and tell us why your god is such a despicable monster, if he does exist?

Free will is part of the plan so when you take away the knowledge of God from the young this is what will happen because of the immaturity of young minds. The shooter, a young man in his 20s had to be atheist, or else he would have never done what he did, even if he did attend a church it means nothing to a person’s heart, it only means something if you truly believe. Keep raising cold hearted kids, give them all of what they desire, let them play the games that give them the ability to kill in cyber space and we will see more unusual crimes as time goes by. The mother lost faith in people, the government, and probably God, the wrong psychology started with her. That kid walked into that school alone and without God, God wasn’t there with him.
You want him out of school and most other places so he wasn’t there. That is your freewill in action and the outcome is what we have today. It’s only going to get worse.
The monster is you, you created what we have here today, not God.

edge · 17th December 2012, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Paulhoff

They are so used to having others of their belief back them up when the logic of their beliefs make no sense, that they don't see how messed up their thinking is.

Paul

Actually we are seeing your way of thinking... in action in today's world.

pakeha · 17th December 2012, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by edge

... The shooter, a young man in his 20s had to be atheist, or else he would have never done what he did, even if he did attend a church it means nothing to a person’s heart, it only means something if you truly believe. ...

Had to be an atheist?

Slowvehicle · 17th December 2012, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by edge

Free will is part of the plan so when you take away the knowledge of God from the young this is what will happen because of the immaturity of young minds. The shooter, a young man in his 20s had to be atheist, or else he would have never done what he did, even if he did attend a church it means nothing to a person’s heart, it only means something if you truly believe. Keep raising cold hearted kids, give them all of what they desire, let them play the games that give them the ability to kill in cyber space and we will see more unusual crimes as time goes by. The mother lost faith in people, the government, and probably God, the wrong psychology started with her. That kid walked into that school alone and without God, God wasn’t there with him.
You want him out of school and most other places so he wasn’t there. That is your freewill in action and the outcome is what we have today. It’s only going to get worse.
The monster is you, you created what we have here today, not God.

"...had to be an atheist, or else he would never have done what he did..." So, any time a theist commits an atrocity, it proves that the theist is really an atheist?

edge · 17th December 2012, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Slowvehicle

"...had to be an atheist, or else he would never have done what he did..." So, any time a theist commits an atrocity, it proves that the theist is really an atheist?

According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes.

pakeha · 17th December 2012, 07:36 AM

"Kill them all. God will know his own"
http://www.cathar.info/120502_arnaud.htm

edge · 17th December 2012, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by pakeha

Had to be an atheist?

I heard he was mentally challenged also which raises more questions.
But definitely the love wasn't in his heart.

edge · 17th December 2012, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by pakeha

"Kill them all. God will know his own"
http://www.cathar.info/120502_arnaud.htm

What's your point? I'm not any denomination for a reason; I took Christ’s words seriously.

Slowvehicle · 17th December 2012, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by edge

According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes.

I really, really, want you to pursue this. DO you really think tyhat you have the authority to determine whether someone is, or is not, a theist, based on their behavior? Does that apply to all theists? What about theists whose 'god' is a different one than your 'god'?

Astreja · 17th December 2012, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by edge

What's your point? I'm not any denomination for a reason; I took Christ’s words seriously.

Not nearly seriously enough, Edge.

According to Matthew 25:35-40, every single time you slander a law-abiding, compassionate and loving nonbeliever or different-believer, you are insulting Jesus. I advise that you give serious consideration to this.

laca · 17th December 2012, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by edge

According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes.

Nope, that has nothing to with being an atheist or theist. You might want to look up the words. The level of retarded apologetics you're displaying here is sickening.

kerikiwi · 17th December 2012, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by edge

I heard he was mentally challenged also which raises more questions.
But definitely the love wasn't in his heart.

Since that was a choice god made, god is even more responsible than the shooter, as god has the power to prevent such mental challenges and absence of love and chooses not to.
Rather like if I had the power to teach my child how to swim, chose not to and then, when the child fell in the pond, let him drown because he should have been able to swim.
Whichever way you twist it, your fictional character is evil.
It's a good thing he is fictional, isn't it?

dafydd · 17th December 2012, 11:55 AM

When are we going to get to the bit about god's plans?

Nay_Sayer · 17th December 2012, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by edge

According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes.

That is honestly thee single stupidest most dishonest thing Iv'e ever heard.

had to be an atheist...

Sometimes the religious sicken me with what they will say to protect their imaginary cloud friend .

Paulhoff · 17th December 2012, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by edge

Free will is part of the plan..................

See people, right there is the heart of the problem, they love to tell us this over and over as if it is some great insight. But at the same time everything they say about their god shows us that it is a lie. To have free-will one must not be in fear of doing something wrong in the eyes of this so-called god. Also, if there is a plan, there is no free-will. And if this so-called god knows all, again there is no free-will.

Paul

Paulhoff · 17th December 2012, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by edge

Actually we are seeing your way of thinking... in action in today's world.

Really, my thinking. You have in no way read all of your bible, slavery, killing of children in your god's name. Killing of the world but for the ones on a boat. My thinking, I think you think little of yourself and your god is sick and you back him up which makes you as bad. You know nothing of me, you have shown that.

Paul

Paulhoff · 17th December 2012, 05:56 PM

See, the FREE-WILL of children doesn't count with the bible god.

Paul

edge · 18th December 2012, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Paulhoff

Really, my thinking. You have in no way read all of your bible, slavery, killing of children in your god's name. Killing of the world but for the ones on a boat. My thinking, I think you think little of yourself and your god is sick and you back him up which makes you as bad. You know nothing of me, you have shown that.

Paul

You're an atheist aren't you? You have made this very clear, am I wrong about that?
You want the ten commandments out of schools and government buildings so that the parents can't enlighten their children when asked what they mean. Then when a child sees this at places that are public you want to take out, in God we trust, and take out God from the pledge of allegiance so that these basic principles are not re-enforced.
You want to say killing your child in the womb is acceptable but not later when they are out of the womb? This is what you want? Your way of thinking doesn't make sense and is illogical. keep sending out crossed signals because responsibility for your actions can be wiped put by an abortion. So this is what will happen, your kids will be cold to retribution of their actions, after all we kill other animals so it's OK to kill the human animal because we are all animals. this is what they will understand from your anti-religion rants.
So yes I can read you and your Idiotic responses to what I have written.

Originally Posted by edge

Quote:

According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes. (Added)your children will be cold to killing others. Your type of Philosophy is responsible today not ours from thousands of years ago, lets get that straight right now, what happens today is from you pushing your philosophy.

If he didn't have the love in his heart he is not Christian or else 28 people would still be alive.
That kid at 20--didn't believe or else he wouldn't have done what he did, that puts him in the atheist category or at the very least a fallen soul.
Like you.
Here is what you should be responding to.

Quote:

Keep raising cold hearted kids, give them all of what they desire, let them play the games that give them the ability to kill in cyber space and we will see more unusual crimes as time goes by. The mother lost faith in people, the government, and probably God, the wrong psychology started with her. That kid walked into that school alone and without God, God wasn’t there with him.
You want him (God), out of school and most other places so he wasn’t there. That is your freewill in action and the outcome is what we have today. It’s only going to get worse.
The monster is you, you created what we have here today, not God.

When you make killing a game, without emotions, expect more of the same from your atheistic blandness on morality after all you’ll say, it’s just a game.

What you teach your kids and push on them will have an effect on them that we will and are seeing every day in today’s world. Atheistic view is there are no repercussions for anything we do which isn’t against the law, which is totally wrong. There will be a price in this life and the next.

It has been found that the heart sends the brain more signals than the brain sends to the heart. The heart reads life and emotions. They have now found from the heart beat on the blank spaces on an EKG, in between heart beats, they found they can read (your emotions), in particular, what you feel. It has also been shown that the heart can see things that are going to happen 3 to 4 seconds before they happen.
Consider lying to yourself. You try to convince yourself in your brain that the lie is the truth, but your heart still beats. Your heart continues to show feelings even when you have already convinced yourself the lie are the truth. It is for the other person to tell until they, he/she checks the change of pace by hand or through 'lie detectors'. Lie detectors in reality are to check the change of pace in your veins or your heart.
What’s in your heart matters significantly.

edge · 18th December 2012, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

When are we going to get to the bit about god's plans?

Turn around and you'll get it, till then you won't.

edge · 18th December 2012, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer

That is honestly thee single stupidest most dishonest thing Iv'e ever heard.

had to be an atheist...

Sometimes the religious sicken me with what they will say to protect their imaginary cloud friend .

Really? It is written there is hot and cold, this kid was cold not quit like you but not a Christian either so therefore he didn't believe which makes him closer to your way of thinking. There is also luke warm which doesn't quit cut it either.

edge · 18th December 2012, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Astreja

Not nearly seriously enough, Edge.

According to Matthew 25:35-40, every single time you slander a law-abiding, compassionate and loving nonbeliever or different-believer, you are insulting Jesus. I advise that you give serious consideration to this.

According to you then we are all slanderers, even righteous preachers, who witness as we are told to do to the lost. To tell you the truth about the world and the word is not slander.
It's clear you do not understand those passages you quoted, you should have read further. Try to think about this; you can't get there by your works alone, if you read on you will find out your classification.

edge · 18th December 2012, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Slowvehicle

I really, really, want you to pursue this. DO you really think tyhat you have the authority to determine whether someone is, or is not, a theist, based on their behavior? Does that apply to all theists? What about theists whose 'god' is a different one than your 'god'?

It is quite clear when you fall away, especially when you murder what you are.
You have become atheistic to the word of God. No other God gives us Grace. Read above that will help.

Slowvehicle · 18th December 2012, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by edge

Really? It is written there is hot and cold, this kid was cold not quit like you but not a Christian either so therefore he didn't believe which makes him closer to your way of thinking. There is also luke warm which doesn't quit cut it either.

Edge:
Forgive my bluntness, but you cannot know whether anyone is, or is not, a "christian". It is not yours to judge. Are you truly, actually, honestly claiming that no 'christian' has ever committed an atrocity?

Do you actually believe that a parent is prevented from being able to teach whichever version of whichever edition of whichever interpretation of "the ten commandments" she feels caught up in, just because that particular edition/version/translation is not emblazoned upon the courthouse?

Cheesy One · 18th December 2012, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by edge

It has been found that the heart sends the brain more signals than the brain sends to the heart. The heart reads life and emotions. They have now found from the heart beat on the blank spaces on an EKG, in between heart beats, they found they can read (your emotions), in particular, what you feel. It has also been shown that the heart can see things that are going to happen 3 to 4 seconds before they happen.
Consider lying to yourself. You try to convince yourself in your brain that the lie is the truth, but your heart still beats. Your heart continues to show feelings even when you have already convinced yourself the lie are the truth. It is for the other person to tell until they, he/she checks the change of pace by hand or through 'lie detectors'. Lie detectors in reality are to check the change of pace in your veins or your heart.
What’s in your heart matters significantly.

The heart is a muscle that pumps blood through your body. It doesn't contain emotions or anything of the sort. One thinks with their brain and not their heart.

edge · 18th December 2012, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by kerikiwi

Since that was a choice god made, god is even more responsible than the shooter, as god has the power to prevent such mental challenges and absence of love and chooses not to.
Rather like if I had the power to teach my child how to swim, chose not to and then, when the child fell in the pond, let him drown because he should have been able to swim.
Whichever way you twist it, your fictional character is evil.
It's a good thing he is fictional, isn't it?

We have a choice to either let evil in or God in but he will not take away freewill that is why he gave us the Grace of Jesus' sacrifice to help us out, that is a love we can't comprehend. The problem is what he is really teaching your not learning. I'm trying to help you see it the way I do, not the way they seen it in the past because we do learn from our mistakes.
be aware that when he does demonstrate his powers it will be too late if you are on the fence or on your side. It's not your fault per say because it is so simple that it's over most peoples heads. Even now with all that is happening we now can quickly see our mistakes where our/your thinking is wrong as stated above.

edge · 18th December 2012, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Slowvehicle

Edge:
Forgive my bluntness, but you cannot know whether anyone is, or is not, a "christian". It is not yours to judge. Are you truly, actually, honestly claiming that no 'christian' has ever committed an atrocity?

Do you actually believe that a parent is prevented from being able to teach whichever version of whichever edition of whichever interpretation of "the ten commandments" she feels caught up in, just because that particular edition/version/translation is not emblazoned upon the courthouse?

Geez in here it is pretty clear and what you all want to take away is clear, and the result of that tragedy is a result of a young mind not following Christ and that is even more clear. The atheists want God out of everything which is anti-Christian what does that tell you? I would bet that he had the video games that depict murder, we will find out about that and physiologists will find out about that and we will probably hear about that.
In Yellow: Sure I can and it is easy to do.

edge · 18th December 2012, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Cheesy One

The heart is a muscle that pumps blood through your body. It doesn't contain emotions or anything of the sort. One thinks with their brain and not their heart.

When you lose heart that's all you have.

Frank Merton · 18th December 2012, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Cheesy One

The heart is a muscle that pumps blood through your body. It doesn't contain emotions or anything of the sort. One thinks with their brain and not their heart.

I saw an item the other day that our stomach does a certain amount of thinking too.

edge · 18th December 2012, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Frank Merton

I saw an item the other day that our stomach does a certain amount of thinking too.

Cellular memory comes to mind, what do people say about their transplants like a heart or lungs?
I think you know by golly!
And welcome. They also found out that the heart has a big magnetic field around the human body and it affects other living organisms, we are all connected to something greater than self.

Cheesy One · 18th December 2012, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Frank Merton

I saw an item the other day that our stomach does a certain amount of thinking too.

Well there is something else that they say men think with but I shall not mention here.

Frank Merton · 18th December 2012, 07:47 AM

I think maybe, just maybe, you carry that a little too far. The idea of the item, if I understood it correctly, is that there are some very direct connections of the brain right in the stomach. That's right -- brain cells in the stomach. Just getting information would not be their function, since peripheral nerves do that and pass the info along. No, some sort of brain function is down there in the stomach, probably making decisions for it that can't wait for the circuit from stomach to brain to stomach to happen.

I may have gotten it all wrong.

Cheesy One · 18th December 2012, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by edge

When you lose heart that's all you have.

Attempting to think with one doesn't lead to anything good.

Slowvehicle · 18th December 2012, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by edge

Geez in here it is pretty clear and what you all want to take away is clear, and the result of that tragedy is a result of a young mind not following Christ and that is even more clear. The atheists want God out of everything which is anti-Christian what does that tell you? I would bet that he had the video games that depict murder, we will find out about that and physiologists will find out about that and we will probably hear about that.
In Yellow: Sure I can and it is easy to do.

No, you cannot. Further, if you are a 'christian', you are enjoined from pretending to do so.

As far as "atheists want(ing) god out of everything", did you observe Diwali? Have you made your hajj? Did you greet the corn gods with blue pollen this morning at dawn? You want "the gods" out of everything as much as you accuse atheists of doing---but you want a waiver, an exception, for one particular bronze-age superstition.

You want to force me to acknowledge your 'god' in public--I want to prevent anyone from forcing anyone else to acknowledge any "gods".

Frank Merton · 18th December 2012, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Slowvehicle

As far as "atheists want(ing) god out of everything", did you observe Diwali? Have you made your jihad? Did you greet the corn gods with blue pollen this morning at dawn? You want "the gods" out of everything as much as you accuse atheists of doing---but you want a waiver, an exception, for one particular bronze-age superstition.

You want to force me to acknowledge your 'god' in public--I want to prevent anyone from forcing anyone else to acknowledge any "gods".

Well I haven't heard talk about forcing atheists to acknowledge God for quite awhile.

As an atheist, I think I am right and the theists are wrong.

Now, if they want to convert me, then I have the right to try to convert them. So we end up in an argument. I generally am entertained, they generally lose their temper (I can be sarcastic sometimes when it is warranted). (There are exceptions to this -- Jews and East Asians keep their cool better).

I'm not much worried about whether religion is "in" things or not. I suppose separation of church and state is the law, and the law ought to be obeyed, but that is certainly low on my list of priorities. To say that that is an atheist objective is an exaggeration; the only thing here that gets me going is when they want to use my money.

RoboTimbo · 18th December 2012, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by edge

[i][color="DarkRed"]You want the ten commandments out of schools and government buildings so that the parents can't enlighten their children when asked what they mean.[/color][/i][/quote]

That's exactly what I want. I don't want your cultish religion forced down the public's throat any more than I want any other religion to be established or sanctioned by the government.

I don't mind having a discussion with children about the barbarity of religions and point to the 10 (or 217 depending on how you count them) commandments as bronze and iron age goat herder mentality and an early experiment in thought control. Then I'll point out how slavery and genocide are condoned in the bible and how they believed in witchcraft and advocated murdering suspected witches. Is that what you meant about enlightening children?

Quote:

Then when a child sees this at places that are public you want to take out, in God we trust, and take out God from the pledge of allegiance so that these basic principles are not re-enforced.

Why just your religion? Why not every religion in the world? The less intelligent theists want to claim that atheism is a religion, why not have the government sponsor that one? We can put "There is no evidence for any god(s)" on our coins and paper money.

Nay_Sayer · 18th December 2012, 10:55 AM

Adam Lanza is pictured at St. Rose Middle School in Newton, Conn.
(This is a catholic school)

Source:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/connec...ry?id=17992396

With this little bit of info, Can I now claim he must of been a devout catholic and did this all to please the pope?

No.

Edge until you can give me even a speckle of evidence to prove he shooter was an atheist I'll be ignoring your rabble on the matter.

Back to the task of proving you know any of gods so called plans.

kerikiwi · 18th December 2012, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by edge

It has been found that the heart sends the brain more signals than the brain sends to the heart. The heart reads life and emotions. They have now found from the heart beat on the blank spaces on an EKG, in between heart beats, they found they can read (your emotions), in particular, what you feel. It has also been shown that the heart can see things that are going to happen 3 to 4 seconds before they happen.
Consider lying to yourself. You try to convince yourself in your brain that the lie is the truth, but your heart still beats. Your heart continues to show feelings even when you have already convinced yourself the lie are the truth. It is for the other person to tell until they, he/she checks the change of pace by hand or through 'lie detectors'. Lie detectors in reality are to check the change of pace in your veins or your heart.
What’s in your heart matters significantly.

The only thing in the heart which matters is moving blood.
I gave up counting when I got to the tenth 'no' for this tripe.

kerikiwi · 18th December 2012, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by edge

Turn around and you'll get it, till then you won't.

I turned around, several times, and no, still nothing

laca · 18th December 2012, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by edge

Geez in here it is pretty clear and what you all want to take away is clear, and the result of that tragedy is a result of a young mind not following Christ and that is even more clear. The atheists want God out of everything which is anti-Christian what does that tell you? I would bet that he had the video games that depict murder, we will find out about that and physiologists will find out about that and we will probably hear about that.
In Yellow: Sure I can and it is easy to do.

Let's just skip all the infantile and retarded stuff in your post and focus on you explaining how you can do that.

15th December 2012, 09:22 AM	#3561
Paulhoff You can't expect perfection. Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 12,570	Originally Posted by AdMan It seems, according to his OP, that edge seems to think this tragedy must have been part of God's plan: Highlight added. edge, care to comment and tell us why your god is such a despicable monster, if he does exist? They are so used to having others of their belief back them up when the logic of their beliefs make no sense, that they don't see how messed up their thinking is. Paul
	__________________ For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST" Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing

17th December 2012, 07:06 AM	#3564
pakeha Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7,957	Originally Posted by edge ... The shooter, a young man in his 20s had to be atheist, or else he would have never done what he did, even if he did attend a church it means nothing to a person’s heart, it only means something if you truly believe. ... Had to be an atheist?
pakeha Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7,957

17th December 2012, 07:07 AM	#3565
Slowvehicle Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: ...not where I seemed, nor was calculated to be...but no-one need worry... Posts: 2,112	Originally Posted by edge Free will is part of the plan so when you take away the knowledge of God from the young this is what will happen because of the immaturity of young minds. The shooter, a young man in his 20s had to be atheist, or else he would have never done what he did, even if he did attend a church it means nothing to a person’s heart, it only means something if you truly believe. Keep raising cold hearted kids, give them all of what they desire, let them play the games that give them the ability to kill in cyber space and we will see more unusual crimes as time goes by. The mother lost faith in people, the government, and probably God, the wrong psychology started with her. That kid walked into that school alone and without God, God wasn’t there with him. You want him out of school and most other places so he wasn’t there. That is your freewill in action and the outcome is what we have today. It’s only going to get worse. The monster is you, you created what we have here today, not God. "...had to be an atheist, or else he would never have done what he did..." So, any time a theist commits an atrocity, it proves that the theist is really an atheist?
	__________________ "Science is a wall against which we crash all of our ideas. The ones that survive are the ones we keep, but they are still subjected to periodic crash tests." -Foster Zygote "And in science the default is that you're wrong. EVERYONE is wrong. You only can be not wrong if you have evidence to back up your claim." -Dinwar "That is not my circus; those are not my monkeys." -Howard Tayler

17th December 2012, 07:36 AM	#3567
pakeha Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7,957	"Kill them all. God will know his own" http://www.cathar.info/120502_arnaud.htm
pakeha Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7,957

17th December 2012, 07:54 AM	#3570
Slowvehicle Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: ...not where I seemed, nor was calculated to be...but no-one need worry... Posts: 2,112	Originally Posted by edge According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes. I really, really, want you to pursue this. DO you really think tyhat you have the authority to determine whether someone is, or is not, a theist, based on their behavior? Does that apply to all theists? What about theists whose 'god' is a different one than your 'god'?
	__________________ "Science is a wall against which we crash all of our ideas. The ones that survive are the ones we keep, but they are still subjected to periodic crash tests." -Foster Zygote "And in science the default is that you're wrong. EVERYONE is wrong. You only can be not wrong if you have evidence to back up your claim." -Dinwar "That is not my circus; those are not my monkeys." -Howard Tayler

17th December 2012, 06:59 AM	#3562
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by AdMan It seems, according to his OP, that edge seems to think this tragedy must have been part of God's plan: Highlight added. edge, care to comment and tell us why your god is such a despicable monster, if he does exist? Free will is part of the plan so when you take away the knowledge of God from the young this is what will happen because of the immaturity of young minds. The shooter, a young man in his 20s had to be atheist, or else he would have never done what he did, even if he did attend a church it means nothing to a person’s heart, it only means something if you truly believe. Keep raising cold hearted kids, give them all of what they desire, let them play the games that give them the ability to kill in cyber space and we will see more unusual crimes as time goes by. The mother lost faith in people, the government, and probably God, the wrong psychology started with her. That kid walked into that school alone and without God, God wasn’t there with him. You want him out of school and most other places so he wasn’t there. That is your freewill in action and the outcome is what we have today. It’s only going to get worse. The monster is you, you created what we have here today, not God.

17th December 2012, 07:04 AM	#3563
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by Paulhoff They are so used to having others of their belief back them up when the logic of their beliefs make no sense, that they don't see how messed up their thinking is. Paul Actually we are seeing your way of thinking... in action in today's world.

17th December 2012, 07:26 AM	#3566
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by Slowvehicle "...had to be an atheist, or else he would never have done what he did..." So, any time a theist commits an atrocity, it proves that the theist is really an atheist? According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes.

17th December 2012, 07:41 AM	#3568
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by pakeha Had to be an atheist? I heard he was mentally challenged also which raises more questions. But definitely the love wasn't in his heart.

17th December 2012, 07:47 AM	#3569
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by pakeha "Kill them all. God will know his own" http://www.cathar.info/120502_arnaud.htm What's your point? I'm not any denomination for a reason; I took Christ’s words seriously.

17th December 2012, 08:15 AM	#3571
Astreja Springy Goddess Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 971	Originally Posted by edge What's your point? I'm not any denomination for a reason; I took Christ’s words seriously. Not nearly seriously enough, Edge. According to Matthew 25:35-40, every single time you slander a law-abiding, compassionate and loving nonbeliever or different-believer, you are insulting Jesus. I advise that you give serious consideration to this.

17th December 2012, 09:09 AM	#3572
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	Originally Posted by edge According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes. Nope, that has nothing to with being an atheist or theist. You might want to look up the words. The level of retarded apologetics you're displaying here is sickening.
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161

17th December 2012, 11:34 AM	#3573
kerikiwi Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bay of Islands NZ Posts: 5,843	Originally Posted by edge I heard he was mentally challenged also which raises more questions. But definitely the love wasn't in his heart. Since that was a choice god made, god is even more responsible than the shooter, as god has the power to prevent such mental challenges and absence of love and chooses not to. Rather like if I had the power to teach my child how to swim, chose not to and then, when the child fell in the pond, let him drown because he should have been able to swim. Whichever way you twist it, your fictional character is evil. It's a good thing he is fictional, isn't it?

17th December 2012, 11:55 AM	#3574
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,437	When are we going to get to the bit about god's plans?
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

17th December 2012, 12:44 PM	#3575
Nay_Sayer Muse Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 739	Originally Posted by edge According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes. That is honestly thee single stupidest most dishonest thing Iv'e ever heard. had to be an atheist... Sometimes the religious sicken me with what they will say to protect their imaginary cloud friend .

17th December 2012, 04:46 PM	#3576
Paulhoff You can't expect perfection. Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 12,570	Originally Posted by edge Free will is part of the plan.................. See people, right there is the heart of the problem, they love to tell us this over and over as if it is some great insight. But at the same time everything they say about their god shows us that it is a lie. To have free-will one must not be in fear of doing something wrong in the eyes of this so-called god. Also, if there is a plan, there is no free-will. And if this so-called god knows all, again there is no free-will. Paul
	__________________ For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST" Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing

17th December 2012, 04:51 PM	#3577
Paulhoff You can't expect perfection. Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 12,570	Originally Posted by edge Actually we are seeing your way of thinking... in action in today's world. Really, my thinking. You have in no way read all of your bible, slavery, killing of children in your god's name. Killing of the world but for the ones on a boat. My thinking, I think you think little of yourself and your god is sick and you back him up which makes you as bad. You know nothing of me, you have shown that. Paul
	__________________ For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST" Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing Last edited by Paulhoff; 17th December 2012 at 04:53 PM.

17th December 2012, 05:56 PM	#3578
Paulhoff You can't expect perfection. Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 12,570	See, the FREE-WILL of children doesn't count with the bible god. Paul
	__________________ For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST" Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing

18th December 2012, 06:44 AM	#3579
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by Paulhoff Really, my thinking. You have in no way read all of your bible, slavery, killing of children in your god's name. Killing of the world but for the ones on a boat. My thinking, I think you think little of yourself and your god is sick and you back him up which makes you as bad. You know nothing of me, you have shown that. Paul You're an atheist aren't you? You have made this very clear, am I wrong about that? You want the ten commandments out of schools and government buildings so that the parents can't enlighten their children when asked what they mean. Then when a child sees this at places that are public you want to take out, in God we trust, and take out God from the pledge of allegiance so that these basic principles are not re-enforced. You want to say killing your child in the womb is acceptable but not later when they are out of the womb? This is what you want? Your way of thinking doesn't make sense and is illogical. keep sending out crossed signals because responsibility for your actions can be wiped put by an abortion. So this is what will happen, your kids will be cold to retribution of their actions, after all we kill other animals so it's OK to kill the human animal because we are all animals. this is what they will understand from your anti-religion rants. So yes I can read you and your Idiotic responses to what I have written. Originally Posted by edge Quote: According to the word he did not have the love in him, in his heart, so yes. (Added)your children will be cold to killing others. Your type of Philosophy is responsible today not ours from thousands of years ago, lets get that straight right now, what happens today is from you pushing your philosophy. If he didn't have the love in his heart he is not Christian or else 28 people would still be alive. That kid at 20--didn't believe or else he wouldn't have done what he did, that puts him in the atheist category or at the very least a fallen soul. Like you. Here is what you should be responding to. Quote: Keep raising cold hearted kids, give them all of what they desire, let them play the games that give them the ability to kill in cyber space and we will see more unusual crimes as time goes by. The mother lost faith in people, the government, and probably God, the wrong psychology started with her. That kid walked into that school alone and without God, God wasn’t there with him. You want him (God), out of school and most other places so he wasn’t there. That is your freewill in action and the outcome is what we have today. It’s only going to get worse. The monster is you, you created what we have here today, not God. When you make killing a game, without emotions, expect more of the same from your atheistic blandness on morality after all you’ll say, it’s just a game. What you teach your kids and push on them will have an effect on them that we will and are seeing every day in today’s world. Atheistic view is there are no repercussions for anything we do which isn’t against the law, which is totally wrong. There will be a price in this life and the next. It has been found that the heart sends the brain more signals than the brain sends to the heart. The heart reads life and emotions. They have now found from the heart beat on the blank spaces on an EKG, in between heart beats, they found they can read (your emotions), in particular, what you feel. It has also been shown that the heart can see things that are going to happen 3 to 4 seconds before they happen. Consider lying to yourself. You try to convince yourself in your brain that the lie is the truth, but your heart still beats. Your heart continues to show feelings even when you have already convinced yourself the lie are the truth. It is for the other person to tell until they, he/she checks the change of pace by hand or through 'lie detectors'. Lie detectors in reality are to check the change of pace in your veins or your heart. What’s in your heart matters significantly.

18th December 2012, 06:46 AM	#3580
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by dafydd When are we going to get to the bit about god's plans? Turn around and you'll get it, till then you won't.

18th December 2012, 06:50 AM	#3581
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer That is honestly thee single stupidest most dishonest thing Iv'e ever heard. had to be an atheist... Sometimes the religious sicken me with what they will say to protect their imaginary cloud friend . Really? It is written there is hot and cold, this kid was cold not quit like you but not a Christian either so therefore he didn't believe which makes him closer to your way of thinking. There is also luke warm which doesn't quit cut it either.

18th December 2012, 07:01 AM	#3582
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by Astreja Not nearly seriously enough, Edge. According to Matthew 25:35-40, every single time you slander a law-abiding, compassionate and loving nonbeliever or different-believer, you are insulting Jesus. I advise that you give serious consideration to this. According to you then we are all slanderers, even righteous preachers, who witness as we are told to do to the lost. To tell you the truth about the world and the word is not slander. It's clear you do not understand those passages you quoted, you should have read further. Try to think about this; you can't get there by your works alone, if you read on you will find out your classification.

18th December 2012, 07:07 AM	#3583
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by Slowvehicle I really, really, want you to pursue this. DO you really think tyhat you have the authority to determine whether someone is, or is not, a theist, based on their behavior? Does that apply to all theists? What about theists whose 'god' is a different one than your 'god'? It is quite clear when you fall away, especially when you murder what you are. You have become atheistic to the word of God. No other God gives us Grace. Read above that will help.

18th December 2012, 07:10 AM	#3584
Slowvehicle Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: ...not where I seemed, nor was calculated to be...but no-one need worry... Posts: 2,112	Originally Posted by edge Really? It is written there is hot and cold, this kid was cold not quit like you but not a Christian either so therefore he didn't believe which makes him closer to your way of thinking. There is also luke warm which doesn't quit cut it either. Edge: Forgive my bluntness, but you cannot know whether anyone is, or is not, a "christian". It is not yours to judge. Are you truly, actually, honestly claiming that no 'christian' has ever committed an atrocity? Do you actually believe that a parent is prevented from being able to teach whichever version of whichever edition of whichever interpretation of "the ten commandments" she feels caught up in, just because that particular edition/version/translation is not emblazoned upon the courthouse?
	__________________ "Science is a wall against which we crash all of our ideas. The ones that survive are the ones we keep, but they are still subjected to periodic crash tests." -Foster Zygote "And in science the default is that you're wrong. EVERYONE is wrong. You only can be not wrong if you have evidence to back up your claim." -Dinwar "That is not my circus; those are not my monkeys." -Howard Tayler

18th December 2012, 07:15 AM	#3585
Cheesy One Scholar Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: The Moon Posts: 75	Originally Posted by edge It has been found that the heart sends the brain more signals than the brain sends to the heart. The heart reads life and emotions. They have now found from the heart beat on the blank spaces on an EKG, in between heart beats, they found they can read (your emotions), in particular, what you feel. It has also been shown that the heart can see things that are going to happen 3 to 4 seconds before they happen. Consider lying to yourself. You try to convince yourself in your brain that the lie is the truth, but your heart still beats. Your heart continues to show feelings even when you have already convinced yourself the lie are the truth. It is for the other person to tell until they, he/she checks the change of pace by hand or through 'lie detectors'. Lie detectors in reality are to check the change of pace in your veins or your heart. What’s in your heart matters significantly. The heart is a muscle that pumps blood through your body. It doesn't contain emotions or anything of the sort. One thinks with their brain and not their heart.

18th December 2012, 07:16 AM	#3586
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by kerikiwi Since that was a choice god made, god is even more responsible than the shooter, as god has the power to prevent such mental challenges and absence of love and chooses not to. Rather like if I had the power to teach my child how to swim, chose not to and then, when the child fell in the pond, let him drown because he should have been able to swim. Whichever way you twist it, your fictional character is evil. It's a good thing he is fictional, isn't it? We have a choice to either let evil in or God in but he will not take away freewill that is why he gave us the Grace of Jesus' sacrifice to help us out, that is a love we can't comprehend. The problem is what he is really teaching your not learning. I'm trying to help you see it the way I do, not the way they seen it in the past because we do learn from our mistakes. be aware that when he does demonstrate his powers it will be too late if you are on the fence or on your side. It's not your fault per say because it is so simple that it's over most peoples heads. Even now with all that is happening we now can quickly see our mistakes where our/your thinking is wrong as stated above.

18th December 2012, 07:27 AM	#3587
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by Slowvehicle Edge: Forgive my bluntness, but you cannot know whether anyone is, or is not, a "christian". It is not yours to judge. Are you truly, actually, honestly claiming that no 'christian' has ever committed an atrocity? Do you actually believe that a parent is prevented from being able to teach whichever version of whichever edition of whichever interpretation of "the ten commandments" she feels caught up in, just because that particular edition/version/translation is not emblazoned upon the courthouse? Geez in here it is pretty clear and what you all want to take away is clear, and the result of that tragedy is a result of a young mind not following Christ and that is even more clear. The atheists want God out of everything which is anti-Christian what does that tell you? I would bet that he had the video games that depict murder, we will find out about that and physiologists will find out about that and we will probably hear about that. In Yellow: Sure I can and it is easy to do.

18th December 2012, 07:35 AM	#3588
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by Cheesy One The heart is a muscle that pumps blood through your body. It doesn't contain emotions or anything of the sort. One thinks with their brain and not their heart. When you lose heart that's all you have.

18th December 2012, 07:35 AM	#3589
Frank Merton Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam Posts: 310	Originally Posted by Cheesy One The heart is a muscle that pumps blood through your body. It doesn't contain emotions or anything of the sort. One thinks with their brain and not their heart. I saw an item the other day that our stomach does a certain amount of thinking too.

18th December 2012, 07:40 AM	#3590
edge Suspended Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now. Posts: 5,246	Originally Posted by Frank Merton I saw an item the other day that our stomach does a certain amount of thinking too. Cellular memory comes to mind, what do people say about their transplants like a heart or lungs? I think you know by golly! And welcome. They also found out that the heart has a big magnetic field around the human body and it affects other living organisms, we are all connected to something greater than self.

18th December 2012, 07:46 AM	#3591
Cheesy One Scholar Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: The Moon Posts: 75	Originally Posted by Frank Merton I saw an item the other day that our stomach does a certain amount of thinking too. Well there is something else that they say men think with but I shall not mention here.
	Last edited by Cheesy One; 18th December 2012 at 07:49 AM. Reason: added missing wor

18th December 2012, 07:47 AM	#3592
Frank Merton Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam Posts: 310	I think maybe, just maybe, you carry that a little too far. The idea of the item, if I understood it correctly, is that there are some very direct connections of the brain right in the stomach. That's right -- brain cells in the stomach. Just getting information would not be their function, since peripheral nerves do that and pass the info along. No, some sort of brain function is down there in the stomach, probably making decisions for it that can't wait for the circuit from stomach to brain to stomach to happen. I may have gotten it all wrong.

18th December 2012, 07:48 AM	#3593
Cheesy One Scholar Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: The Moon Posts: 75	Originally Posted by edge When you lose heart that's all you have. Attempting to think with one doesn't lead to anything good.

18th December 2012, 08:11 AM	#3594
Slowvehicle Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: ...not where I seemed, nor was calculated to be...but no-one need worry... Posts: 2,112	Originally Posted by edge Geez in here it is pretty clear and what you all want to take away is clear, and the result of that tragedy is a result of a young mind not following Christ and that is even more clear. The atheists want God out of everything which is anti-Christian what does that tell you? I would bet that he had the video games that depict murder, we will find out about that and physiologists will find out about that and we will probably hear about that. In Yellow: Sure I can and it is easy to do. No, you cannot. Further, if you are a 'christian', you are enjoined from pretending to do so. As far as "atheists want(ing) god out of everything", did you observe Diwali? Have you made your hajj? Did you greet the corn gods with blue pollen this morning at dawn? You want "the gods" out of everything as much as you accuse atheists of doing---but you want a waiver, an exception, for one particular bronze-age superstition. You want to force me to acknowledge your 'god' in public--I want to prevent anyone from forcing anyone else to acknowledge any "gods".
	__________________ "Science is a wall against which we crash all of our ideas. The ones that survive are the ones we keep, but they are still subjected to periodic crash tests." -Foster Zygote "And in science the default is that you're wrong. EVERYONE is wrong. You only can be not wrong if you have evidence to back up your claim." -Dinwar "That is not my circus; those are not my monkeys." -Howard Tayler Last edited by Slowvehicle; 18th December 2012 at 09:10 AM.

18th December 2012, 08:24 AM	#3595
Frank Merton Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam Posts: 310	Originally Posted by Slowvehicle As far as "atheists want(ing) god out of everything", did you observe Diwali? Have you made your jihad? Did you greet the corn gods with blue pollen this morning at dawn? You want "the gods" out of everything as much as you accuse atheists of doing---but you want a waiver, an exception, for one particular bronze-age superstition. You want to force me to acknowledge your 'god' in public--I want to prevent anyone from forcing anyone else to acknowledge any "gods". Well I haven't heard talk about forcing atheists to acknowledge God for quite awhile. As an atheist, I think I am right and the theists are wrong. Now, if they want to convert me, then I have the right to try to convert them. So we end up in an argument. I generally am entertained, they generally lose their temper (I can be sarcastic sometimes when it is warranted). (There are exceptions to this -- Jews and East Asians keep their cool better). I'm not much worried about whether religion is "in" things or not. I suppose separation of church and state is the law, and the law ought to be obeyed, but that is certainly low on my list of priorities. To say that that is an atheist objective is an exaggeration; the only thing here that gets me going is when they want to use my money.