JREF Homepage Swift Blog Events Calendar $1 Million Paranormal Challenge The Amaz!ng Meeting Useful Links Support Us
James Randi Educational Foundation JREF Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   JREF Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
Click Here To Donate

Notices


Welcome to the JREF Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

Reply
Old 16th December 2012, 06:51 AM   #321
jond
Graduate Poster
 
jond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,834
Not that it will do any good, but: PC do yourself a fair and read Festinger's "When Proohecy Fails." Then look in the mirror.
jond is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2012, 10:43 AM   #322
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
tsig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 33,459
Originally Posted by Astreja View Post
Aristeo, that is complete and utter nonsense. There is absolutely no evidence that "previous lives" are even possible. Humans do not retain their sense of self when they are unconscious, and they can have no 'self' whatsoever when they die. The idea of a "soul" is pure mythology.



False. There is no evidence for the entity you call 'God'; therefore, we can "know" nothing about it. At most, you can believe; you cannot truly know.



There shall be no Judgment Day... Ever. I've cancelled it.



They were never there in the first place. There are just the living and the dead.
You mean that all those good works for Jesus went for nothing? Oh well, looks like I got some catching up to do.

(tsig dons sinful clothes and heads out for the nearest den of sin)
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2012, 10:45 AM   #323
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
tsig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 33,459
Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Jeez, who died and made you God?

Norm
Careful, she'll turn you into a newt and you won't get better.

Croak, croak.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2012, 01:08 PM   #324
Rincewind
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,902
Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Careful, she'll turn you into a newt and you won't get better.

Croak, croak.
Well, I got better...
Rincewind is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2012, 01:34 PM   #325
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
tsig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 33,459
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Well, I got better...
So you say, no one knows you're a newt on the internet.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2012, 03:03 PM   #326
Rincewind
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,902
Originally Posted by tsig View Post
So you say, no one knows you're a newt on the internet.
Rincewind is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2012, 08:37 PM   #327
MIKILLINI
Incromulent Logic
 
MIKILLINI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Illini State
Posts: 2,988
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
Maria Liwayway Alvaran or Ka Apaz, according to Ama, has previous lives. She is reincarnated.

I think that is logically correct. We know that nothing is impossible to God. God can make a soul to be reborn in another human being. According to Ama, now, I think, most people will not be reincarnated. When they die, they will just wait until Judgment Day comes when they will receive their sentence. So change now for the better while still alive for there maybe no second chance anymore. Ama said that what is the purpose of a person being reborn if he is good now, he may become worse because of the environment. He asked whether the world is getting better (morally) or not wherein the listeners replied that it is getting worse. Just think, in Noah’s time, God annihilated everyone except Noah and his family. The population of this world will decline until there will be just a few people left on this earth. Imagine, from about seven billion people at present to just a handful in about two hundred years! Where have all the souls gone?
A "guess" is really a guess with claims like these. The only conclusion to be gathered here depicts Ama as a "guesstures" prophet.
__________________
Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me

The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo

Last edited by MIKILLINI; 16th December 2012 at 08:39 PM.
MIKILLINI is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 05:58 AM   #328
Multivac
Master Poster
 
Multivac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,124
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
Maria Liwayway Alvaran or Ka Apaz, according to Ama, has previous lives. She is reincarnated.

I think that is logically correct. We know that nothing is impossible to God.
How do we know this. God does not exist, so god can't do anything at all.

Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
God can make a soul to be reborn in another human being.
Do you have any proof of this? I know it's a silly question, but the optimist in me thinks it's worth asking anyway.

Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
According to Ama, now, I think, most people will not be reincarnated. When they die, they will just wait until Judgment Day comes when they will receive their sentence. So change now for the better while still alive for there maybe no second chance anymore. Ama said that what is the purpose of a person being reborn if he is good now, he may become worse because of the environment.
Why does there have to a purpose?


Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
He asked whether the world is getting better (morally) or not wherein the listeners replied that it is getting worse. Just think, in Noah’s time, God annihilated everyone except Noah and his family.
You cannot seriously believe this? That every single human being on the planet is descended from Noah?


Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
The population of this world will decline until there will be just a few people left on this earth. Imagine, from about seven billion people at present to just a handful in about two hundred years! Where have all the souls gone?
Can you prove that souls exist?
Multivac is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 06:33 AM   #329
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
 
Akhenaten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia
Posts: 29,096
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Links to your own past (and present) beliefs show nothing more than the long-term nature of the present Poe/delusion.

Do you really think, at this stage of the game, that people are going to take them any more serwiously than that?


Trust me, none of these people, nor the events involving them, were needed to demonstrate the current prevalence of insanity.

All of the evidence required to make such a case is much closer at hand.


This is quite obviously and demonstrably completely wrong.


And yet here you are referring to them without offering any background information because you believe that everyone knows exactly what you're talking about.


Your "if" seems to be lacking a "then".

As ever.


I wrote in the webpage that if the attacks by madmen happened to an ordinary person, most likely, they will not make into the international headlines. How is it “quite obviously and demonstrably completely wrong”?


Does it ever occur to you on any level and if so, having occurred to you, does it bother you at all that your disdain for paying us the courtesy of learning how to quote properly results in the daft responses that you provide being doubly meaningless due to there being no apparent link between them and the posts that you are purporting to answer?


Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
I wrote quoting from the webpage:


There's your first problem.


Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
But if it involves mass and indiscriminate killings which is extraordinary, they it could, like the ‘Hamburger Massacre’, ‘Dunblane Massacre’ and ‘Port Arthur Massacre’.”

You answered:
Your "if" seems to be lacking a "then".

As ever.

My reply:
Sorry but there was a typographical error. The ‘they’ should be ‘then’.


Cool.

We've progressed from meaningless drivel with a typo to just plain meaningless drivel.


Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
Please read the webpage.


Please stop making ridiculous suggestions.


Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
Do you believe that Jesus Christ ever existed here on earth?


See if you can figure it out.
__________________


Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

The Australasian Skeptics Forum
Akhenaten is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 07:21 AM   #330
halleyscomet
Master Poster
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,177
Originally Posted by LaurelHS View Post
Why do you keep spamming these links to an audience who doesn't believe there is any truth in them?
More to the point, why is she or he continuing to spam links even when a good hunk of the forum has concluded she or he is a troll making this up?

This "Ama" doesn't even exist. It's a creative writing project, nothing more.
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 08:19 AM   #331
RatBoy
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 150
The prophecies of Ama... Ama what?

Will they eventually show us where is buried the treasure of amaweiner?
RatBoy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 10:24 AM   #332
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
tsig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 33,459
Originally Posted by RatBoy View Post
The prophecies of Ama... Ama what?

Will they eventually show us where is buried the treasure of amaweiner?
You'd have to be some kind of hot dog to find that.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 10:35 AM   #333
halleyscomet
Master Poster
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,177
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
There is a town in Laguna province called Pila. Please read http://aristean.org/wp085.htm titled “Taken from the Jews”.
Are any of the "sessions" on that site in English?

http://aristean.org/audioidx.htm
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 01:19 PM   #334
Astreja
Springy Goddess
 
Astreja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,333
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Are any of the "sessions" on that site in English?
Even if they were, it would be difficult to tell. I downloaded a few to attempt a voice analysis, but the recording quality was execrable. Try to imagine one person mumbling at the bottom of a barrel, followed by a group of people mumbling something else -- Darned near impossible to sort out the players on the field, let alone figure out what they're saying.
Astreja is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 01:27 PM   #335
halleyscomet
Master Poster
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,177
Originally Posted by Astreja View Post
Even if they were, it would be difficult to tell. I downloaded a few to attempt a voice analysis, but the recording quality was execrable. Try to imagine one person mumbling at the bottom of a barrel, followed by a group of people mumbling something else -- Darned near impossible to sort out the players on the field, let alone figure out what they're saying.
So it sounded like a high quality RealAudio file.
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 01:43 PM   #336
godless dave
Great Dalmuti
 
godless dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 6,963
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
One of the 19 prophecies that Ama revealed on 1979-10-19 was “Disease of the brain, or insanity, will prevail in 1980, 1981 until 1988, especially in the three superpower countries.” Please read my write up on this at http://aristean.org/insanity.htm .

The latest is the killing of at least 27 people, including 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newtown, Connecticut, USA, Friday morning, 2012-12-14.
2014. Not 1988.
__________________
"If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm
godless dave is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 10:18 PM   #337
PeaceCrusader
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by godless dave View Post
2014. Not 1988.

The prophecy of Ama said, “1980, 1981 until 1988.”

This is my answer to fromdownunder on 2012-12-15: ‘This is what I said If you only read the write up in http://aristean.org/insanity.htm , you would know that the end of insanity of man will not be until 1988 only. I wrote, “In about 1986, I asked the Holy Spirit if 1988 would be the ultimate, the final act of madness or insanity of man since the prophecy states ‘until 1988’. He replied in the negative. That is why even after 1988, we had cases of insanity committed by madmen. And we will continue to witness these.” ’
PeaceCrusader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 10:20 PM   #338
PeaceCrusader
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Are any of the "sessions" on that site in English?

http://aristean.org/audioidx.htm

The sessions are in the Filipino language. But you may read the translation of some to English at http://aristean.org/sermon.htm .

Also, those in http://aristean.org/wpxxx.htm where xxx is from 001 to 119 are in English, some of them had info taken from the sessions with Ama, like when Jesus was 12 years old.
PeaceCrusader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 10:24 PM   #339
PeaceCrusader
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by RatBoy View Post
The prophecies of Ama... Ama what?

Will they eventually show us where is buried the treasure of amaweiner?

Ama is a spirit, a holy spirit. He uses the physical body of a woman in the Philippines. The name of the woman is Maria Liwayway Alvaran a.k.a. Ka Apaz. On 1979-10-19, Ama revealed the 19 prophecies that is being discussed here. More than 30 years have passed since they were revealed so we would know if they were fulfilled already or not.

What is that “treasure of amaweiner”? Ama said that nothing kept in secret that will not be revealed. For example, a person is murdered. Even though no human being witnessed the murder, God knows what happened. Even buried treasures.
PeaceCrusader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 11:41 PM   #340
gabeygoat
Muse
 
gabeygoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philomath, Oregon
Posts: 861
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post

What is that “treasure of amaweiner”?
I'm just glad that this thread led to this quote.
gabeygoat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2012, 11:53 PM   #341
Astreja
Springy Goddess
 
Astreja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,333
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
Ama is a spirit, a holy spirit.
There is no evidence whatsoever for spirits, "holy" or otherwise.

"Ama" is a proven failure as a prophet, too, as shown by a trail of dead and dying JREF threads. All of the extraordinary and time-specific prophesies failed utterly. Other pronouncements, such as those about insanity or disease, are simply too vague and open-ended to qualify as prophesies. I assert that, without a single exception, all of the prophesies spoken through the mouth of Maria Liwayway Alvaran were of 100% human origin, and that no gods or spirits had anything to do with them.
Astreja is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 01:58 AM   #342
pakeha
Penultimate Amazing
 
pakeha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,281
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
So it sounded like a high quality RealAudio file.


Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
...What is that “treasure of amaweiner”? ....
Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
I'm just glad that this thread led to this quote.
Me, too.



Originally Posted by Astreja View Post
There is no evidence whatsoever for spirits, "holy" or otherwise.

"Ama" is a proven failure as a prophet, too, as shown by a trail of dead and dying JREF threads. All of the extraordinary and time-specific prophesies failed utterly. Other pronouncements, such as those about insanity or disease, are simply too vague and open-ended to qualify as prophesies. I assert that, without a single exception, all of the prophesies spoken through the mouth of Maria Liwayway Alvaran were of 100% human origin, and that no gods or spirits had anything to do with them.
Of course you're right springyG.
The GOTACURAL prophecy is just the icing on the cake.

Maria Liwayway Alvaran is simply following a long tradition of con artists playing on the credulity and faith of their followers.
Check out the careers of 'psychic surgeons' both in the Philippines and in Mexico to see what they're capable of.
pakeha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 02:04 AM   #343
fromdownunder
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,012
Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
Me, too.
Me three. This is one of the joys of responding to somebody who is totally innocent of humour.

Norm
fromdownunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 02:10 AM   #344
pakeha
Penultimate Amazing
 
pakeha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,281
It's also why the antics of Maria Liwayway Alvaran are so obnoxious.
Her victims simply haven't a clue.
pakeha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 05:44 AM   #345
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,319
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
Ama revealed the 19 prophecies that is being discussed here. More than 30 years have passed since they were revealed so we would know if they were fulfilled already or not.
The answer is not. So, are we done?
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 08:57 AM   #346
halleyscomet
Master Poster
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,177
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
The sessions are in the Filipino language. But you may read the translation of some to English at http://aristean.org/sermon.htm .

Also, those in http://aristean.org/wpxxx.htm where xxx is from 001 to 119 are in English, some of them had info taken from the sessions with Ama, like when Jesus was 12 years old.
How do you reconcile your faith with the complete lack of predictions that have come true?
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 09:05 AM   #347
Dr.Sid
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 455
What does she says about December 21st, 2012 ? Just curious ..
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 09:11 AM   #348
Frank Merton
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
What does she says about December 21st, 2012 ? Just curious ..
Gosh, that's right. Thanks for reminding me; three days to go.
Frank Merton is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 09:15 AM   #349
jond
Graduate Poster
 
jond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,834
Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
What does she says about December 21st, 2012 ? Just curious ..
Or, for that matter, December 21st 1955. Here's a link to the wiki page about the book I mentioned before, "When Prophecy Fails." It's a fascinating book that details the circumstances around a doomsday prophecy from a UFO cult. The author had a few of his students infiltrate the group and document things. It's also the book that gave us the term "cognitive dissonance."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails
jond is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 09:27 AM   #350
Tolls
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,506
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
The answer is not. So, are we done?
We were supposed to be done months ago with the whole Olympics farago...so I'm guessing not.
Tolls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 12:42 PM   #351
MIKILLINI
Incromulent Logic
 
MIKILLINI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Illini State
Posts: 2,988
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
The prophecy of Ama said, “1980, 1981 until 1988.”

This is my answer to fromdownunder on 2012-12-15: ‘This is what I said If you only read the write up in http://aristean.org/insanity.htm , you would know that the end of insanity of man will not be until 1988 only. I wrote, “In about 1986, I asked the Holy Spirit if 1988 would be the ultimate, the final act of madness or insanity of man since the prophecy states ‘until 1988’. He replied in the negative. That is why even after 1988, we had cases of insanity committed by madmen. And we will continue to witness these.” ’
Wait...what? Let me get this straight; Ama told you there would be people creating insane "high profile" crimes until 1988? But when you asked again in 1986 about this 1988 prophecy, he said no because it will continue? That's not prophet-like. Did Ama say "Just never mind that I told you 1988 was the end of insanity?"
__________________
Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me

The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo

Last edited by MIKILLINI; 18th December 2012 at 12:44 PM.
MIKILLINI is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 12:48 PM   #352
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 25,492
Originally Posted by MIKILLINI View Post
Wait...what? Let me get this straight; Ama told you there would be people creating insane "high profile" crimes until 1988? But when you asked again in 1986 about this 1988 prophecy, he said no because it will continue? That's not prophet-like. Did Ama say "Just never mind that I told you 1988 was the end of insanity?"

Yes, even according to "Ama", the prophecy was wrong.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 01:02 PM   #353
MIKILLINI
Incromulent Logic
 
MIKILLINI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Illini State
Posts: 2,988
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Yes, even according to "Ama", the prophecy was wrong.
So Maria Liwayway Alvaran is a fraud and Peace Crusader is her delusional enabler trying to push this crap on people.
__________________
Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense.-Me

The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo

Last edited by MIKILLINI; 18th December 2012 at 01:45 PM.
MIKILLINI is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 01:30 PM   #354
pakeha
Penultimate Amazing
 
pakeha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,281
Originally Posted by jond View Post
Or, for that matter, December 21st 1955. Here's a link to the wiki page about the book I mentioned before, "When Prophecy Fails." It's a fascinating book that details the circumstances around a doomsday prophecy from a UFO cult. The author had a few of his students infiltrate the group and document things. It's also the book that gave us the term "cognitive dissonance."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails
Thanks for the link!
Quote:
After the failure of the prediction, she (Dorothy Martin) left Chicago after being threatened with arrest and involuntary commitment. She later founded the Association of Sananda and Samat Kumara. Under the name Sister Thedra, she continued to practice channeling and to participate in contactee groups until her death in 1992. The Association is active to this day.
Whew! Good old Sanat KumaraWP is still going strong among the channelers.
Once people believe they have access to a special pipeline o spirituality, they'll swallow anything.
So sad.
pakeha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 01:34 PM   #355
jond
Graduate Poster
 
jond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,834
Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
Thanks for the link!


Whew! Good old Sanat KumaraWP is still going strong among the channelers.
Once people believe they have access to a special pipeline o spirituality, they'll swallow anything.
So sad.
Yup. The parallels are quite stunning. As is the response from the committed believer. Textbook, so to speak.
jond is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 06:34 PM   #356
gabeygoat
Muse
 
gabeygoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philomath, Oregon
Posts: 861
Originally Posted by jond View Post
Or, for that matter, December 21st 1955. Here's a link to the wiki page about the book I mentioned before, "When Prophecy Fails." It's a fascinating book that details the circumstances around a doomsday prophecy from a UFO cult. The author had a few of his students infiltrate the group and document things. It's also the book that gave us the term "cognitive dissonance."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

Per your advice, I grabbed this book from work the other day. It is indeed, a good read! Very 2nd page describes PC to a tee.
gabeygoat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 06:43 PM   #357
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 1,508
I wonder if somewhere Maria Liwayway Alvaran is counting all the money swindled and having a good laugh.
__________________
"The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum."
-Thomas Paine-

------------------------------------------------
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 10:04 PM   #358
PeaceCrusader
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
Thanks for the link!


Whew! Good old Sanat KumaraWP is still going strong among the channelers.
Once people believe they have access to a special pipeline o spirituality, they'll swallow anything.
So sad.

In 1985, Ama said that the number of tempters and deceivers on earth will become many more and dense who will lead astray, misteach, deceive and blind many, many people. Many will spread the rumor that this is the beginning of the end. This will spread and many will claim that he is god, or God is in him, or he is inspired by God, or he is the messenger of God, and many will believe that will truly lead them astray. This is a warning or advice: beware of false prophets because we will not be saved by borrowed faith.

Remember, beware of false prophets who will give us borrowed faith, meaning, faith that did not come from within us but commanded to us, or told to or directed, imposed, dictated or compelled upon us by our fellowmen. We will not be saved this way. We must focus our faith in God, the only true God, who gave us our life, not through faith in Him as commanded by our fellowmen but believe and have faith in Him in our heart because of His being God and we are His creation.

The above came from http://aristean.org/sermon005.htm titled “Beware of false prophets”.
PeaceCrusader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 10:06 PM   #359
PeaceCrusader
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
I wonder if somewhere Maria Liwayway Alvaran is counting all the money swindled and having a good laugh.

There are only about 60 members in my list from maybe 1970 to present, verified last 2012-05. A fourth, or 15 members, had already died. Seven are overseas, mostly in the US. Those who go regularly to Maria Liwayway Alvaran’s or Ka Apaz’ place in Baliwag on Sundays may only be about three. Those in the Philippines go to Baliwag during special occasions, such as Ka Apaz’ birthday, birth of Jesus on May 23, death of Jesus on August 17, and January 7, the anniversary of Ama’s first appropriation of Ka Apaz’ physical body in 1957. Some members also come for the “Pasyon” during Holy Week.

How much money do you think would be have been contributed by members? Did you know that Ka Apaz is blind in both eyes? Did you know that some glass panels in the jalousie windows of her room in the Session House are missing? Did you know that some of her children and their families still live in the old house? Did you know that electricity was cut-off from the Session House and the old house more than ten years ago? Until now, it has not been reconnected yet.
PeaceCrusader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2012, 10:06 PM   #360
LaurelHS
Muse
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 698
Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
In 1985, Ama said that the number of tempters and deceivers on earth will become many more and dense who will lead astray, misteach, deceive and blind many, many people.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
LaurelHS is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

JREF Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:36 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2001-2013, James Randi Educational Foundation. All Rights Reserved.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.