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Tags health conspiracies , vaccination , vaccine autism myth , vaccines

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Old 20th December 2012, 02:11 PM   #3161
dafydd
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post

All my life I've been told a puncture wound is much more dangerous than the average cut.
That is because of the risk of infection. Hypodermic needles are sterilized. That kite won't fly.
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Old 20th December 2012, 02:12 PM   #3162
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Bingo.
No bingo. Sterilized, that is the keyword.
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Old 20th December 2012, 02:14 PM   #3163
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
That is because of the risk of infection. Hypodermic needles are sterilized. That kite won't fly.
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/hea...creases-to-36/

Tell that to their families.
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Old 20th December 2012, 02:14 PM   #3164
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
All three concern in your face bald face lies.
What that sentence means is anybody's guess. You can't concern in anything.
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Old 20th December 2012, 02:15 PM   #3165
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Fox News!
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Old 20th December 2012, 02:20 PM   #3166
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
All three concern in your face bald face lies.
Yes, but so do TV psychics, at least all but one religion and bitcoin... there is no shortage of "lies" to choose. Why those ones? The 9/11 and holocaust stuff kind of falls together but the MMR thing is a bit of an outlier. You might just as well go for Morgellons, or electrosensitivity.
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Old 20th December 2012, 02:28 PM   #3167
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
So a pharmacy that circumvented the rules designed to ensure the safety of medicines causes vaccines to be dangerous
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Old 20th December 2012, 03:23 PM   #3168
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
I note, by your lack of response
Did you respond to something I said? My apologies, the board usually emails me when someone responds to me, and I haven't seen one.

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
that you feel that inhaling and ingesting germs is just as dangerous as receiving them through a puncture of the skin.
The method of delivery only matters, so far as I understand, when it affects the survivability of said germs.

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
The plethora of questions I've received are nothing more than an attempt to confuse the issue.
From one coming in late in the game, and having had to play catch-up, the vast majority of what I've seen are kindly attempts to educate you on the issue. People who took time out of their day to tell you that you're unreasonably putting the lives of children and infants too young to be inoculated at risk all for the sake of a sick trend, made by a man already proven to be a liar and a scam artist looking to line his own pocket. Please read up on the history of Wakefield.

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Are you a doctor? is a favorite
Neither of us are doctors, but that doesn't make us incapable of learning the difference between a reasonable argument and one made from pure incredulity. The people here have taken the time to address your concerns, and I've seen that you largely can't be bothered to change your opinion.

And I will say again that anyone unwilling to change their minds, when shown to be wrong, particularly when the very lives of young children and infants are at stake, is a despicable human being.

And I will close out by again begging that you read up on the history of Andrew Wakefield, and why the whole anti-vaxxer movement is founded on the words of a liar who didn't care who he hurt so long as it made his pocketbook a bit heavier.
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Old 20th December 2012, 04:06 PM   #3169
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Didn't the whole mercury thing start independently of Wakefield? He was more interested in things that might be associated with gut disorders that he could attach a patent to.
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Old 20th December 2012, 05:03 PM   #3170
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Reading helps you learn.
I agree with you completely, CM.
So post up link to what it is you want us to read, please.
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Old 20th December 2012, 05:12 PM   #3171
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
I doubt if you know much about either either.

Why are germs more dangerous through the skin?

All my life I've been told a puncture wound is much more dangerous than the average cut.
Anthrax is more dangerous inhaled than ingested, which is still more dangerous than in a skin wound.
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Old 20th December 2012, 05:28 PM   #3172
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Yes, but so do TV psychics, at least all but one religion and bitcoin... there is no shortage of "lies" to choose. Why those ones? The 9/11 and holocaust stuff kind of falls together but the MMR thing is a bit of an outlier. You might just as well go for Morgellons, or electrosensitivity.
tredaptive vioxx

Where does the dishonesty that these and other drugs, past, present, and future, were properly tested and honestly approved, begin/end?

The reason for the snafus? Greed.

The problems the vaccine onslaught is wreaking on our children seems obvious to myself and hundreds of thousands of parents. You say no way.

Yet everyone can see the misdeeds of the drug manufacturers and the resulting danger to patients.

Can anyone honestly believe drug companies would shortcut in their drug research and testing but not shortcut their vaccine research and testing?
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Old 20th December 2012, 06:51 PM   #3173
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
I note, by your lack of response, that you feel that inhaling and ingesting germs is just as dangerous as receiving them through a puncture of the skin.

The plethora of questions I've received are nothing more than an attempt to confuse the issue.

Are you a doctor? is a favorite
Oh this is rich Clay. The plethora of questions have been in direct response to your claims. You haven't answered a single one, only raise the spectre of more absurdity. So why should we provide responses when you don't have the courtesy of doing so?

Este
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Old 20th December 2012, 07:14 PM   #3174
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
tredaptive vioxx

Where does the dishonesty that these and other drugs, past, present, and future, were properly tested and honestly approved, begin/end?

The reason for the snafus? Greed.

The problems the vaccine onslaught is wreaking on our children seems obvious to myself and hundreds of thousands of parents. You say no way.

Yet everyone can see the misdeeds of the drug manufacturers and the resulting danger to patients.

Can anyone honestly believe drug companies would shortcut in their drug research and testing but not shortcut their vaccine research and testing?
I guess your inability to document your "hundreds of thousands of parents" ascertation will not stop you from repeating it, will it?

No one here is claiming drug manufacturers are immune to greed. But they and their products are under a lot more regulation, oversight, and inspection than most industries. And that includes international, federal state, and city agencies, independent scientists, and hundreds of thousands of doctors. So for people to cover up the damage you claim vaccines cause, it would require an unbelievably massive conspiracy by people who are not in the industry. Including large numbers of people dedicated to the public health and who also vaccinate their own children!

By the way, you do realize that the value and safety of vaccination was established as early as the 1800s, way before any pharmaceutical firms existed? Do you realize that people such as Jenner and Pasteur publically proved the value of vaccines at that time in front of skeptical audiences, without the incentive or help of drug company money?
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Old 20th December 2012, 07:31 PM   #3175
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post

By the way, you do realize that the value and safety of vaccination was established as early as the 1800s, way before any pharmaceutical firms existed? Do you realize that people such as Jenner and Pasteur publically proved the value of vaccines at that time in front of skeptical audiences, without the incentive or help of drug company money?
That's rich. 2012 drug research and testing is riddled with inconsistency and criminality but the
Quote:
safety of vaccination was established as early as the 1800s
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Old 20th December 2012, 08:07 PM   #3176
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Mr

Originally Posted by Giordano View Post

No one here is claiming drug manufacturers are immune to greed. But they and their products are under a lot more regulation, oversight, and inspection than most industries. And that includes international, federal state, and city agencies, independent scientists, and hundreds of thousands of doctors. So for people to cover up the damage you claim vaccines cause, it would require an unbelievably massive conspiracy by people who are not in the industry. Including large numbers of people dedicated to the public health and who also vaccinate their own children!
I'd never dispute that you're an intelligent and caring person.

But you just proclaimed vaccines were established to be safe in the 1800s.

You're accepting a 200 year premise without reservation. That's just dam scary. Indeed, you're convinced that vaccine safety has no limits or boundaries. Somehow the unthinkable, the incessant increasing pollution of babies bodies away from a mother's breast has become a required norm.

Vaccines are known to have caused fevers and seizures.

Fevers and seizures are known to have caused brain damage.

Even Homer Simpson would see a likely connection.
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Old 20th December 2012, 08:43 PM   #3177
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
I doubt if you know much about either either.

Why are germs more dangerous through the skin?

All my life I've been told a puncture wound is much more dangerous than the average cut.



Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
Anthrax is more dangerous inhaled than ingested, which is still more dangerous than in a skin wound.
What does anthrax have to do with what I said?
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Old 20th December 2012, 09:21 PM   #3178
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Why are germs more dangerous through the skin?
I just said they're not, so you went:

Quote:
What does anthrax have to do with what I said?
And so I'm just gonna call you a troll and leave.
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Old 20th December 2012, 09:41 PM   #3179
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
I'd never dispute that you're an intelligent and caring person.

But you just proclaimed vaccines were established to be safe in the 1800s.

You're accepting a 200 year premise without reservation. That's just dam scary. Indeed, you're convinced that vaccine safety has no limits or boundaries. Somehow the unthinkable, the incessant increasing pollution of babies bodies away from a mother's breast has become a required norm.

Vaccines are known to have caused fevers and seizures.

Fevers and seizures are known to have caused brain damage.

Even Homer Simpson would see a likely connection.
Yes, the concept of vaccination, and the basic safety of the idea, were established as early as the 1800s- ever hear of Jenner and Pastuer? Why do you think ridicule can negate historical fact? Yes, each new vaccine has to be tested afresh. But if anything, as technology and knowledge has improved, the safety of vaccines has further improved.

No, I'm not convinced vaccine safety has no limits. Very rarely some vaccines have had problems, but the vaccines in general use today have been shown to be safer than the risks of the diseases they protect against. I am a biological scientist and I not only trust vaccines enough to vaccinate my own children, but I am deeply grateful to every person who helped develop those vaccines. Wiithout those vaccines, there is a significant chance that at least one of my children would have died young of an infectious disease..

I will not even bother to respond to your favorite, but erroneous vaccine/fever/seizure/brain damage theory- it's already been discredited here by others. Stating that Homer Simpson would agree with your theory may not be the plus you think it is.

"the unthnkable, the incessant increasing pollution of babies bodies away from a mother's breast" has some nice alliteration in it, but otherwise is pure claptrap. I trust scientific facts, not emotional histronics.
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Old 20th December 2012, 09:48 PM   #3180
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There are several "germs" that are less dangerous if injected than by other routes. Influenza can only infect you if you breath it in, not if you inject it. In fact some influenza vaccines are introduced as aerosols into your lungs- an all natural approach. Does this approach satisfy you, Clayton?

But this discussion is basically silly: vaccines only contain non-infectious subunits, dead, or attenuated microbes.
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Old 20th December 2012, 10:31 PM   #3181
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Think of it this way


http://voices.yahoo.com/dpt-vaccine-...81.html?cat=71

Your body has a pretty effective defense system to deal with ingested or inhaled toxic materials. But you as an adult wouldn't make a habit if ingesting or inhaling even minute amounts of



Yet you would encourage that this type of toxin collection be injected into an infants body? Possibly 8 times in one session?

http://www.healthoma.com/what-is-tet...-it-dangerous/

Now for a short common sense quiz.

If you or your baby/child ingested some dirt do you think a tetanus shot was necessary?
Yes I would.
When I went on holiday to India, I got injected with a vaccine for several diseases at once.
I had a small bruise for a day due to the physical act of an injection.

I did NOT get any of the nice little surpises possible in India such as Hepatitis B or Tetanus.

Well worth trade off.
Because that beautiful system your body has does actually need a primer to work. I personally prefer a harmless primer to the full disease which has this nasty habit of overwhelming an unprepared immune system.
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Old 20th December 2012, 10:50 PM   #3182
Clayton Moore
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Yes, the concept of vaccination, and the basic safety of the idea, were established as early as the 1800s- ever hear of Jenner and Pastuer? Why do you think ridicule can negate historical fact? Yes, each new vaccine has to be tested afresh. But if anything, as technology and knowledge has improved, the safety of vaccines has further improved.

No, I'm not convinced vaccine safety has no limits. Very rarely some vaccines have had problems, but the vaccines in general use today have been shown to be safer than the risks of the diseases they protect against. I am a biological scientist and I not only trust vaccines enough to vaccinate my own children, but I am deeply grateful to every person who helped develop those vaccines. Wiithout those vaccines, there is a significant chance that at least one of my children would have died young of an infectious disease..

I will not even bother to respond to your favorite, but erroneous vaccine/fever/seizure/brain damage theory- it's already been discredited here by others. Stating that Homer Simpson would agree with your theory may not be the plus you think it is.

"the unthnkable, the incessant increasing pollution of babies bodies away from a mother's breast" has some nice alliteration in it, but otherwise is pure claptrap. I trust scientific facts, not emotional histronics.

http://experimentalvaccines.org/2012...ting-in-vials/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=46Y7RBPm-3U#!


Quote:
The vaccine manufacturing company Novartis has recently made the news this time with the recall of 160,000 dosages of the Aggripal influenza flu vaccination in both the United Kingdom and Italy. The recall was due to ‘particles seen floating in the vials’ the particles were later determined to be protein aggregates. When researching protein aggregates we soon find that they are not only dangers misfolded proteins but they are also toxic and linked to amyloidal diseases such as Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and Pion’s. These 160,000 doses of Aggripal were so saturated with protein aggregates that they were visible to the naked eye as floating particulate matter. These toxic injections are referred to as ‘hot batches’ meaning they are concentrated dosages of viral components that have clumped together in a bolus of immune system shocking protein aggregates.
The plot aggregates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_aggregation


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15272267

Thisat tidbit looks to be EIGHT YEARS OLD.

Quote:
Nat Med. 2004 Jul;10 Suppl:S10-7.
Protein aggregation and neurodegenerative disease.
Ross CA, Poirier MA.
Source

Division of Neurobiology, Department of Psychiatry, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Ross Research Building, Room 618, 720 Rutland Avenue, Baltimore, Maryland 21205, USA. caross@jhu.edu
Abstract

Neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's disease (AD), Parkinson's disease (PD), Huntington's disease (HD), amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) and prion diseases are increasingly being realized to have common cellular and molecular mechanisms including protein aggregation and inclusion body formation. The aggregates usually consist of fibers containing misfolded protein with a beta-sheet conformation, termed amyloid. There is partial but not perfect overlap among the cells in which abnormal proteins are deposited and the cells that degenerate. The most likely explanation is that inclusions and other visible protein aggregates represent an end stage of a molecular cascade of several steps, and that earlier steps in the cascade may be more directly tied to pathogenesis than the inclusions themselves. For several diseases, genetic variants assist in explaining the pathogenesis of the more common sporadic forms and developing mouse and other models. There is now increased understanding of the pathways involved in protein aggregation, and some recent clues have emerged as to the molecular mechanisms of cellular toxicity. These are leading to approaches toward rational therapeutics.
http://www.shimadzu.com/an/powder/sa...appli/app.html

Evaluation of Aggregation of Vaccines and Proteins

Quote:
Up till now, dynamic light scattering method instruments have been used for this evaluation of vaccines and proteins. Yet, it is considered that dynamic light scattering method instruments have hardly been unable to measure the existence of aggregates and contaminating components since their measurement upper limit is approximately several µm.
Hmmmm, vaccines, proteins, aggregates, and contaminating components in the same sentence. Happy Holidays.
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Old 20th December 2012, 11:04 PM   #3183
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yes I would.
When I went on holiday to India, I got injected with a vaccine for several diseases at once.
I had a small bruise for a day due to the physical act of an injection.

I did NOT get any of the nice little surpises possible in India such as Hepatitis B or Tetanus.

Well worth trade off.
Because that beautiful system your body has does actually need a primer to work. I personally prefer a harmless primer to the full disease which has this nasty habit of overwhelming an unprepared immune system.
Did you notice any protein aggregates in your vaccine? Maybe they didn't clump yet or the vaccine custodian shook the vial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_aggregation



Quote:
Toxicity

Although it has been thought that the mature protein aggregates themselves are toxic, recent evidence suggests that it is in fact that immature protein aggregates are most toxic[9] .[10] The hydrophobic patches of these aggregates can interact with other components of the cell and damage them. One hypothesis about how protein aggregates damage cells is through disruption of cell membranes. It is known that protein aggregates in vitro can destabilize artificial phospholipid bilayers, leading to permabilization of the membrane.
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Old 20th December 2012, 11:37 PM   #3184
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CM, how about posting up the link I asked you for?
While we're waiting, here's something on what anti-vaxxers are doing in Pakistan:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20799518
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Old 20th December 2012, 11:51 PM   #3185
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Quote:
The temporary suspension of Agrippal, Agriflu and Fluad has been lifted in Canada and Switzerland, following review by national regulatory authorities. The outcomes of internal reviews and risk assessments indicated that the observed aggregates are not external contamination, but integral constituents of the product. Protein aggregates are not uncommon during the production of the vaccine. WHO will provide further updates as the situation evolves.
http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-d...some-countries

CM, you have to read the entire story about protein aggregates in vaccines, not just what catches your eye.
Now, about that link I asked for?
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Old 21st December 2012, 06:51 AM   #3186
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Did you notice any protein aggregates in your vaccine? Maybe they didn't clump yet or the vaccine custodian shook the vial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_aggregation
Or maybe the vaccines were just treated carefully as they should be and therefore safe, like the vast majority of all medicine is. Just because something went wrong somewere does not invalidate an entire field of medicine.

By your definition of safe we should just stop breathing to begin with. You do KNOW oxygen is a large cancer risk right? Yet there are parents that let their children ingest as much as they like!
And that there are people who drive irresponsibly, so noone should ever drive, after all a high speed crash is bad for the body. Yet people take BABIES into those things!
Houses...
did you know the vast majority of accidents with children are in houses??!?
Noone should ever take a child in there, because it's happened to someone somewhere at some point in time.
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Old 21st December 2012, 06:56 AM   #3187
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I like how Clayton tries so hard to make it sound like they're shooting people up with pure iron oxide, calf spit, and battery acid.

So, how's everyone's Polio phobia today? Good?
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Old 21st December 2012, 07:04 AM   #3188
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Thanks to the World Health Organisation Anti Polio vaccination programme Polio has now all but been eradicated

http://apps.who.int/immunization_mon...case_count.cfm
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Old 21st December 2012, 07:05 AM   #3189
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Quote:
Proteins are degraded by the immune system into peptides.
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Old 21st December 2012, 07:06 AM   #3190
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This is amazing just look at this Global acheivment

http://apps.who.int/immunization_mon...afpextract.cfm
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Old 21st December 2012, 07:13 AM   #3191
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I think we might want to declare Clayton a victim of Poe's Law. Given that Clayton is indistinguishable from a caricature of an anti-vaxxer, and there's no way of telling if this is a situation borne of trolling or willful ignorance.

I just can't see any human being with moderate intelligence choosing possible death and disfigurement for their children and the children theirs associate with, over a seriously sketchy link to autism that would happen at rates much lower than the previously noted death and disfigurement. That's akin to saying one case of autism is worse than two cases of death.

What the heck?

#EDIT: Even if it were confirmed tomorrow that vaccines were 100% guaranteed to cause IMMEDIATE autism, it would STILL be the favorable option. I'll take immediate autism over possible death any day.

Last edited by Mister Earl; 21st December 2012 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 21st December 2012, 07:39 AM   #3192
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By the way CM I have a Biology O-level passed an exam in it while at school and later got a Biology A-level
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Old 21st December 2012, 08:04 AM   #3193
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Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-d...some-countries

CM, you have to read the entire story about protein aggregates in vaccines, not just what catches your eye.
Now, about that link I asked for?
Glad they're not external contaminants. Now we know they are the result of messing around with the intricacies of the human body for a couple hundred years without possibly understanding what was taking place and the consequences.


This revelation is like the final back and forth head turn that connected fleas with bubonic plague. The difference is that modern science has been keeping it to themselves for about a decade at the very least.
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Old 21st December 2012, 08:09 AM   #3194
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Glad they're not external contaminants. Now we know they are the result of messing around with the intricacies of the human body for a couple hundred years without possibly understanding what was taking place and the consequences.


This revelation is like the final back and forth head turn that connected fleas with bubonic plague. The difference is that modern science has been keeping it to themselves for about a decade at the very least.
any back up for this garbage?

And by the way I do have qualifications in Biology.
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Old 21st December 2012, 09:34 AM   #3195
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Glad they're not external contaminants. Now we know they are the result of messing around with the intricacies of the human body for a couple hundred years without possibly understanding what was taking place and the consequences.


This revelation is like the final back and forth head turn that connected fleas with bubonic plague. The difference is that modern science has been keeping it to themselves for about a decade at the very least.
So when you are sick you take no medication? Because all medications are external contamination resulting from a couple of hundred years of messing around with the intricacies of the human body. All medications. Every single one.

That computer you are typing your messages on? That's an unatural device, resulting from a couple of hundred years of messing around with electricity and semiconductors without knowing the consequences. Doesn't seem to stop you using it.
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Old 21st December 2012, 09:47 AM   #3196
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Glad they're not external contaminants. Now we know they are the result of messing around with the intricacies of the human body for a couple hundred years without possibly understanding what was taking place and the consequences.
Dunno about you, but I can expect to live twice as long as the vast majority of my forefathers. Perhaps you have it exactly backwards... staying "natural" was actually what was killing us early! Hooray, chemicals!

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
This revelation is like the final back and forth head turn that connected fleas with bubonic plague. The difference is that modern science has been keeping it to themselves for about a decade at the very least.
Are you seriously suggesting that modern science, the same modern science that pretty much DEMANDS that anything and everything be challenged, the same modern science where new graduating scientists can make their carreers by PROVING someone else wrong, has somehow fielded an entire world full of scientists who somehow all managed to agree to collude to "surpress the truth"?

I hope you don't take offense at my saying so, but that's seriously nutty.

Last edited by Mister Earl; 21st December 2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 21st December 2012, 11:03 AM   #3197
Clayton Moore
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Dunno about you, but I can expect to live twice as long as the vast majority of my forefathers. Perhaps you have it exactly backwards... staying "natural" was actually what was killing us early! Hooray, chemicals!



Are you seriously suggesting that modern science, the same modern science that pretty much DEMANDS that anything and everything be challenged, the same modern science where new graduating scientists can make their carreers by PROVING someone else wrong, has somehow fielded an entire world full of scientists who somehow all managed to agree to collude to "surpress the truth"?

I hope you don't take offense at my saying so, but that's seriously nutty.
Your pedestaling the humans making their living in science is funny.

They didn't suppress the truth. They toed the survival line by not rocking the boat.

If a person wants a career in todays science they know they will be paid by the piper. And when you get paid by the piper there isn't a Chinaman's chance in the world that you don't know that repaying the piper is job security 101.
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Old 21st December 2012, 11:08 AM   #3198
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Your pedestaling the humans making their living in science is funny.

They didn't suppress the truth. They toed the survival line by not rocking the boat.

If a person wants a career in todays science they know they will be paid by the piper. And when you get paid by the piper there isn't a Chinaman's chance in the world that you don't know that repaying the piper is job security 101.
"Paid by the piper." That's a new one. What do you intend to convey by that?

Not too sure about your mixed metaphors in the second paragraph, nor your verbing of 'pedestal', mind.
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Old 21st December 2012, 12:13 PM   #3199
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Think of it this way


http://voices.yahoo.com/dpt-vaccine-...81.html?cat=71

Your body has a pretty effective defense system to deal with ingested or inhaled toxic materials. But you as an adult wouldn't make a habit if ingesting or inhaling even minute amounts of
Quote:
diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis adsorbed, the chemicals in the list of DPT vaccine ingredients includes formaldehyde, aluminum phosphate, ammonium sulfate, and thimerosal, and animal by products of washed sheep RBCs.

Yet you would encourage that this type of toxin collection be injected into an infants body? Possibly 8 times in one session?
How is it toxic Clay? An infant's body produces more formaldehyde than what's in an entire suite of vaccines. In fact, the baseline level of formaldehyde is barely elevated. Aluminium, well there is a ton in the environment and relevant to infants, breastmilk and formula. Here is another study for you to ignore. Ammonium sulfate is not even close to a toxic dose, disassociates and is excreted via kidneys. Thimerosal (ethyl mercury) is also rapidly excreted even via IM injection. However paediatric vaccines are thimerosal-free so it's a non-sequitor. ZOMG, RBCs, rapidly broken down and either used by the body to build other proteins or excreted. There, the onus is upon you to demonstrate toxicity, not merely claim it.

Quote:
http://www.healthoma.com/what-is-tet...-it-dangerous/

Now for a short common sense quiz.

If you or your baby/child ingested some dirt do you think a tetanus shot was necessary?
I believe Capsid addressed this.

Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Didn't the whole mercury thing start independently of Wakefield? He was more interested in things that might be associated with gut disorders that he could attach a patent to.
Yes, the mercury hysteria was a US thing that began just prior to when the Wakefield nonsense gained traction.

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
tredaptive vioxx

Where does the dishonesty that these and other drugs, past, present, and future, were properly tested and honestly approved, begin/end?

The reason for the snafus? Greed.

The problems the vaccine onslaught is wreaking on our children seems obvious to myself and hundreds of thousands of parents. You say no way.

Yet everyone can see the misdeeds of the drug manufacturers and the resulting danger to patients.

Can anyone honestly believe drug companies would shortcut in their drug research and testing but not shortcut their vaccine research and testing?
If you knew anything about how vaccines are manufactured (which you don't) and the regulation and how it's different than therapeutic drugs (which you don't) then it is obvious why the problems with therapeutic drugs aren't applicable to biological drugs.

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
I doubt if you know much about either either.

Why are germs more dangerous through the skin?

All my life I've been told a puncture wound is much more dangerous than the average cut.
Careful with those broad generalisations. A puncture wound is more dangerous for tetanus germination, not so much for an aerobic organism.


Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://experimentalvaccines.org/2012...ting-in-vials/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=46Y7RBPm-3U#!


The plot aggregates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_aggregation


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15272267

Thisat tidbit looks to be EIGHT YEARS OLD.



http://www.shimadzu.com/an/powder/sa...appli/app.html

Evaluation of Aggregation of Vaccines and Proteins



Hmmmm, vaccines, proteins, aggregates, and contaminating components in the same sentence. Happy Holidays.
More selective readings from Clay. Please learn what protein aggregates are and exogenous v. endogenous for starters. Oh wait, that requires some education and considering you refuse to read a simple Wiki entry, I won't hold my breath. Only more attempts at distraction from your own blundering.

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Old 21st December 2012, 12:35 PM   #3200
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Think of it this way


http://voices.yahoo.com/dpt-vaccine-...81.html?cat=71

Your body has a pretty effective defense system to deal with ingested or inhaled toxic materials. But you as an adult wouldn't make a habit if ingesting or inhaling even minute amounts of

Quote:
diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis adsorbed, the chemicals in the list of DPT vaccine ingredients includes formaldehyde, aluminum phosphate, ammonium sulfate, and thimerosal, and animal by products of washed sheep RBCs.
Yet you would encourage that this type of toxin collection be injected into an infants body? Possibly 8 times in one session?

http://www.healthoma.com/what-is-tet...-it-dangerous/

Now for a short common sense quiz.

If you or your baby/child ingested some dirt do you think a tetanus shot was necessary?
Oh, hai Clayton.

You'll have noted, no doubt, that your quote refers to DTP vaccine. Is that still given in countries such as the US and UK? I thought we'd moved onto DTaP vaccination.

You'll also have noted that your quote refers to toxoids rather than toxins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoid Toxoid refers to a toxin "...whose toxicity has been inactivated or suppressed either by chemical (formalin) or heat treatment".

If you look at the PIL for Pediacel (http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/17468/PIL) you'll see that the ingredients are listed as "toxoids", "polysaccharides of" or "inactivated" - these are not dangerous toxins.

The PIL also lists inactive ingredients. Aluminium phosphate (0.33mg Al), Phenoxyethanol, polysorbate 80 and water.

Aluminium phosphate-containing DTP vaccines: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14871632 "We found no evidence that aluminium salts in vaccines cause any serious or long-lasting adverse events."

Do you have any evidence that any of the ingredients in vaccines are toxic at the doses used?
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