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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 30th December 2012, 06:12 PM   #81
OntarioSquatch
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Check out this latest news

Quote:
New Year's Resolution - to make an effort to speak at a skeptics public event (Specificaly, the TAM convention in Las Vegas this July, 2013)

I just sent out an email inquiry to the event organizers of the TAM Conference (TAM meaning "The Amazing Meeting", ) and thought I would share this message with all who have interest in my work. The email read as follows:

...
Edited by LashL:  Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Do not copy and paste lengthy tracts of text from elsewhere. Instead, quote a short passage and cite a link to the source.

ETA: Also, and probably more importantly, posting stuff written by someone who has been banned at this forum can easily be viewed as "posting by proxy" which is not permitted either.

Source: http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/...70#entry676112

Last edited by LashL; 31st December 2012 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:50 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Bill Munns on BFF
So the question to you is,
No. The questions are never to be placed upon the Bigfoot doubters. Never ever ask a question of us.

Do nothing other than provide confirmatory evidence of the existence of Bigfoot. Do nothing other than that.

The only question that you or the other people who think like you should ever ask is...

"There is the Bigfoot body right there and how do you like that?"

Do not say another word until you have a Bigfoot body.
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:58 PM   #83
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Lying in his request letter is not a good idea.

I have a profound love of true science, and have a personal moral compass that puts truth above any agenda and puts true understanding above any convenient or fashionable fallacy. And I have no underlying belief that something called Bigfoot or sasquatch must exist, and no such belief compels me to conclude that the famous Patterson film must be authentic

Being banned from this site doesn't help either.
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:58 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
Check out this latest news
That wasn't news. That was misdirection. As is "We don't have squat (or squatch in this case) so lets talk about an old fuzzy artifact-ridden film of a guy in a monkey suit."

Shouldn't even give this guy the time of day.
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Old 30th December 2012, 07:03 PM   #85
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My guess is that he's hoping his request will be rejected so he can spin it and tell the three footers that still listen to him the JREF is afraid of his evidence.
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Old 30th December 2012, 07:05 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
No. The questions are never to be placed upon the Bigfoot doubters. Never ever ask a question of us.

Do not say another word until you have a Bigfoot body.
I think enough time has passed for a body/specimen to have been located by now, I know they will never put up or shut up but, they (footers) have had plenty of time, it's just a bunch of old timers teaching new people with BF curiosity, in IMHO it's degrading and giving the wrong set of values.

I think a disclaimer should be tagged on every BF report, show, picture, etc. from here on.
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Old 30th December 2012, 07:06 PM   #87
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I love the Syllabus but it should be renamed " The PGF at 45 ! UnHoaxing a Midlife Crisis !"

I wish we could shift the burden of proof on everything in life.. It would make SO MANY OTHER MYTHS both believable and fascinating !
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Old 30th December 2012, 07:06 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
My guess is that he's hoping his request will be rejected so he can spin it and tell the three footers that still listen to him the JREF is afraid of his evidence.
Well of course. After his offer is rejected he can blather on about how the meanie skeptics can't offer a coherent debunking of PGF, therefore . . . something.

To echo William Parcher, the only question left for the footers is "Got Monkey?"
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Old 30th December 2012, 07:07 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
My guess is that he's hoping his request will be rejected so he can spin it and tell the three footers that still listen to him the JREF is afraid of his evidence.
I think you are correct.
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Old 30th December 2012, 07:08 PM   #90
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I would love to see Bill Munns get accepted to speak. Do I think it will happen? No. Bigfoot is a losing battle.
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Old 30th December 2012, 07:13 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by kitakaze
I know Bill now in a way that is outside of keyboard wars. He thinks the PGF is actually real about as much as a 3 dollar bill. What he does with what I give him I no longer care.

Does Bill always tell the truth about himself and everything else?

Let me ask you - if Bill told somebody that his opinion is that "Patty is a real Bigfoot" would he be lying?

IOW, do you know his opinion like you say that you do?
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Old 30th December 2012, 10:43 PM   #92
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^I've never seen Bill call the Patterson film subject a Bigfoot. Or Sasquatch. I remember he's made it clear before, that he's not trying to prove that the Patterson film shows a real "Bigfoot".

Also, Kitakaze isn't being honest in that above statement.

Last edited by OntarioSquatch; 30th December 2012 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 31st December 2012, 05:50 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
^I've never seen Bill call the Patterson film subject a Bigfoot. Or Sasquatch. I remember he's made it clear before, that he's not trying to prove that the Patterson film shows a real "Bigfoot".

Also, Kitakaze isn't being honest in that above statement.
So then what's his point? Honestly, what's the friggen point? Other than a touchstone that sparked a movement of monkey worshippers, what more is there to say about the PGF?

Got Monkey?
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Old 31st December 2012, 06:59 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
^I've never seen Bill call the Patterson film subject a Bigfoot. Or Sasquatch. I remember he's made it clear before, that he's not trying to prove that the Patterson film shows a real "Bigfoot".
That's because you haven't been around long and haven't done proper research.
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Old 31st December 2012, 08:25 AM   #95
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I suspect that Munns' request would be denied solely on the basis that it appears his presentation would take 45 years to deliver. Get to the point, man!
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Old 31st December 2012, 11:03 AM   #96
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^ Good point, his new year's resolution is more like a new years entire agenda.
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Old 31st December 2012, 02:11 PM   #97
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Smart move. Might as well be a very low-risk situation for him.
Taking in to account the previous TAM records, bigfoot is not a topic of interest. Focus is on scams involving paranormal stuff and stuff such as homeopathy. So, his offer may be declined due to this reason, not to mention IIRC he made some legal threats agains JREF. This will not be of any help, too.
So, "no" can be used to back claims such as "they refuse to discuss and dialog".

Also, the folks whom attend TAM probably are not as acquainted with bigfootery as the main contributors of the bigfoot threads are. May not be a hard debate.

Now, it would be very interesting if JREF accepted his generous offer and also brought some FX and primatology experts to the debate. Remember - there are FX experts who more than once said Patty is a guy in a costume.

I suspect Munns would decline his offer in this case.
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Old 31st December 2012, 07:20 PM   #98
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I, for one, would like to see Bill appear before a skeptical audience. Ideally, someone qualified should also present counter-arguments to Bill's presentation, or present their own reasons why the film does not, or cannot, carry the weight the pro-Bigfoot advocacy assigns to it.

The reason the Bigfoot saga has gotten so out of hand (imho) over the decades is due to the lacking of formal skeptical responses to the phenomena.
The advocate champions have either been ignored or dismissed without a hearing by the very professionals and opinion makers who should be responding. This has allowed the advocates to go virtually unchallenged and to present their evidence without fear of contradiction. And more and more folks are buying into the saga, based on the unrefuted arguments presented by the class of professional advocates.

Character assassination is too short-hand (and ill-reputed) to move the debate along. And it is too weak, and bias appearing, to kill the issue outright.
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Old 1st January 2013, 01:50 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
^I've never seen Bill call the Patterson film subject a Bigfoot. Or Sasquatch. I remember he's made it clear before, that he's not trying to prove that the Patterson film shows a real "Bigfoot".

Also, Kitakaze isn't being honest in that above statement.
You coulda fooled me... Seems like Bill is doing nothing but attempt to prove Patty is real, if he isn't, then what the bollocks has he been doing for the last however long?
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Old 1st January 2013, 02:17 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
...snip...
The reason the Bigfoot saga has gotten so out of hand (imho) over the decades is due to the lacking of formal skeptical responses to the phenomena.
The advocate champions have either been ignored or dismissed without a hearing by the very professionals and opinion makers who should be responding. This has allowed the advocates to go virtually unchallenged and to present their evidence without fear of contradiction. And more and more folks are buying into the saga, based on the unrefuted arguments presented by the class of professional advocates.

Character assassination is too short-hand (and ill-reputed) to move the debate along. And it is too weak, and bias appearing, to kill the issue outright.
This is valid for most if not all woo wandering around.
Do you really think the History Channel would make money with shows showing how ridicule are the Maya doomsday prophecies, ancient aliens, Atlantis, Bermudas Triangle, cryptozoology, Bible babble, etc?

There are formal skeptic responses - but they are not easilly available to the general public because they do not make as much money as tendering the scams.
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Old 1st January 2013, 05:55 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
This is valid for most if not all woo wandering around.
Do you really think the History Channel would make money with shows showing how ridicule are the Maya doomsday prophecies, ancient aliens, Atlantis, Bermudas Triangle, cryptozoology, Bible babble, etc?

There are formal skeptic responses - but they are not easilly available to the general public because they do not make as much money as tendering the scams.
I've given up on cable. The History Channel once was reputable. A few years back, our local newspaper actually ran a front page article that noted, and lamented, how informative cable networks were turning to more profitable "entertainment" programming of dubious merit. I was impressed with the article and waited to see if it made an impact (such as with the Letters section). The article caused no comment or followup what-so-ever. Yawn! seemed to be the impact.

I guess we are getting what we deserve.
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Old 1st January 2013, 07:02 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
You coulda fooled me... Seems like Bill is doing nothing but attempt to prove Patty is real,
I see it the same way, I think he has a need to be accepted by all or at least many in his work and it bothers him if he isn't, I also have a feeling he started out to find the truth, but got involved in a subject that took him by surprise, if he told the truth about his findings now he would lose his friendship with the footer side and he is way to cemented in with those folks now.
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Old 5th January 2013, 10:20 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Does Bill always tell the truth about himself and everything else?

Let me ask you - if Bill told somebody that his opinion is that "Patty is a real Bigfoot" would he be lying?

IOW, do you know his opinion like you say that you do?
KK has posted this on BFF:

"I have agreed to give what things I have found in my studies to Bill Munns, him being the person I deem most worthy to take over the investigations I have done."

WTF????

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/...page__st__2760

Post 2775.
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Old 5th January 2013, 10:44 AM   #104
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Maybe Kitikaze is putting a couple layers of paint around the corner into which Bill Munns has painted himself. By giving Munns all his stuff is he not forcing the issue and Munns' investment in "it's a real biological entity"? Can Munns continue the charade if this evidence from KK has any validity at all. I wonder, though, if there is anything to KK's info will be as obvious to others as it apparently is to Kitikaze.
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Old 5th January 2013, 10:45 AM   #105
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Wish poor ole RedRatSnake was here to read this news, I remember him saying it was all a bunch of bull years ago.
He once gave me some advice I won't forget, he said that he learned a long time ago to never trust a snake oil salesman.

A "snake oil salesman" is somebody that sells an item that claims to have some miraculous powers. This product is usually accompanied by a tremendous amount of hype. In an attempt to help push their products, the "snake oil salesman" will usually utilize planted accomplices who will claim that the product actually works.
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Old 5th January 2013, 10:46 AM   #106
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Well, Munns is an opportunist .. If he feels he has milked the pro side as much as he can, he can always switch tracks..

I think that would be fun to watch ..
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Old 5th January 2013, 12:15 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Slocie's View Post
Wish poor ole RedRatSnake was here to read this news, I remember him saying it was all a bunch of bull years ago.
He once gave me some advice I won't forget, he said that he learned a long time ago to never trust a snake oil salesman.
The question is what exactly Kk is/was selling, particularly with his quest for the Patty suit. It didn't seem like he was pursuing funding. What was he after? Maybe it was a dangling carrot to get wary Bigfooters to open up to him. Maybe it was a bluff to draw out any insiders who actually did have knowledge of a suit.

It seems odd that he chose to pass the information on to only one person, whether or not it was Munns.
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Old 5th January 2013, 12:56 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Slocie's View Post
Wish poor ole RedRatSnake was here to read this news, I remember him saying it was all a bunch of bull years ago.
He once gave me some advice I won't forget, he said that he learned a long time ago to never trust a snake oil salesman.

A "snake oil salesman" is somebody that sells an item that claims to have some miraculous powers. This product is usually accompanied by a tremendous amount of hype. In an attempt to help push their products, the "snake oil salesman" will usually utilize planted accomplices who will claim that the product actually works.
Years ago? Are we going to do this dance again?
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Old 5th January 2013, 03:36 PM   #109
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Sure why not it's footing at its best, how about, we do
The Southside Shuffle

In honor of getting the southside shaft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbtLQ...HxRvft0vxwXAk0
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Old 6th January 2013, 09:06 AM   #110
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Ok there seems to be some confusion about what I am talking about, I am looking at the entire picture here from start to what now looks like the Finnish, KK has been posting for years about his interviews and searches etc, to find the truth about the film and possibly find the people and suit involved, now just when it looks like we are going to get some info and possible closure on this, he bails and hands the info off to a footer.
I don't seen how this is much different from any other BF tale that has been told, it ends with absolutely no evidence, I am missing something here?
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Old 6th January 2013, 09:19 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Kilaak Kommander View Post
The question is what exactly Kk is/was selling, particularly with his quest for the Patty suit. It didn't seem like he was pursuing funding. What was he after? Maybe it was a dangling carrot to get wary Bigfooters to open up to him. Maybe it was a bluff to draw out any insiders who actually did have knowledge of a suit.

It seems odd that he chose to pass the information on to only one person, whether or not it was Munns.
My opinion is now firmer than ever that he had jack squat.

His posts over on his BFF suit thread have become....strange, IMHO.
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Old 6th January 2013, 09:08 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Slocie's View Post
Ok there seems to be some confusion about what I am talking about, I am looking at the entire picture here from start to what now looks like the Finnish, KK has been posting for years about his interviews and searches etc, to find the truth about the film and possibly find the people and suit involved, now just when it looks like we are going to get some info and possible closure on this, he bails and hands the info off to a footer.
I don't seen how this is much different from any other BF tale that has been told, it ends with absolutely no evidence, I am missing something here?
Nope, just another bigfoot snipe hunt.
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Old 6th January 2013, 09:44 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Nope, just another bigfoot snipe hunt.
Totally aware that could be so, I think that's why nothing has gone full scale yet, just testing the waters some I figure, with the news we just got I think it is worth looking at, I don't know anyone personally here so I am going with a ton of skepticism on this, it smells to me.

Guys: I am seriously not looking for a witch/warlock hunt here, just some solid verification it was on the level.

Last edited by RedRatSnake; 6th January 2013 at 09:48 PM. Reason: Add witchey stuff.
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Old 6th January 2013, 09:49 PM   #114
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Yes, it it is odd and .. well it is odd. Unless you thought there was a BF.. well who cares. Very silly and stupid ?! Is there some rule around here that we have to disprove nut jobs ? They do it on their own.
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Old 6th January 2013, 10:07 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Slocie's View Post
Totally aware that could be so, I think that's why nothing has gone full scale yet, just testing the waters some I figure, with the news we just got I think it is worth looking at, I don't know anyone personally here so I am going with a ton of skepticism on this, it smells to me.

Guys: I am seriously not looking for a witch/warlock hunt here, just some solid verification it was on the level.
The only evidence ever given was posts on forums.

Bill Munns gained some BF credibility by being attacked by kk.
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Old 16th January 2013, 01:17 AM   #116
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Simple argument to question the PG film?

Hi.

I'm sure this has probably been remarked on before, but:

Don't you find it funny that P & G were able to capture a "Bigfoot" just like that, just by dropping in and letting film rip, while nobody has ever done so since?

With that in mind, something smells funny about the PG film.

They go out there wanting to capture a Bigfoot, and lo and behold! There it is! -- and yet we have shows like "Finding Bigfoot" and what not where they strain very vague signs really hard and try to claim they're Bigfoot.

So it seems very plausible it's a hoax, and not a piece of evidence to suggest Bigfoot exists. The only thing left would be to identify a hoaxer. Even if one cannot be conclusively identified, the hoax hypothesis still looks much more plausible than a creature which has avoided all attempts at proving its existence both before and since this one incident.
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Old 16th January 2013, 02:16 AM   #117
HarryHenderson
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I would BEG of you to plead with the mods to MOVE THIS POST to the appropriate "Bigfoot: The Patterson Gimlin Film - Part 4" thread. Key word MOVE, not MERGE (or at least leave the term 'Merged' out of the title).

Intending no disrespect, the notion has been discussed ad nauseum throughout the BF threads and breaking it out into its own thread would be absurd.
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Old 16th January 2013, 03:04 AM   #118
mike3
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Yeah, that'd probably be a good idea.
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Old 16th January 2013, 05:32 PM   #119
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While waiting for the mods to move ( and acknowledging Harry's observation ) what is stranger than their unlikely encounter, is their total failure to follow up on it, in any meaningful way ...
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Old 17th January 2013, 11:19 AM   #120
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Bob Gimlin is an honest christian man. I hope you're not implying that he was involved in a premeditated hoax for monetary gain. Why would he lie, mike?

</sarcasm>

On another note, type bob gimlin into google. The first 2 suggestions to finish your search are "Bob Gimlin lie detector" and "Bob Gimlin hoax" hehehe

American. Legend.

And it is legendary isn't it? I would be very pleased with myself if I was involved in such a successful hoax that has persisted so long. What I find particularly distasteful though, is his presentation/speeches at bigfoot conferences. All of the sudden, Bob Gimlin goes from being a good-ole-boy prankster, relatively harmless, to being thrust into the realm of straight up fraud.

We're talking about a guy who faked tracks with Roger Patterson lieing through his teeth to a room full of people hanging on his every word like he's some kind of larger than life figure.

Bob Gimlin won't be confessing to this hoax.
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