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Tags atheism , david mabus , Dennis Markuze

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Old 17th September 2012, 06:05 AM   #241
zooterkin
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
I think he needs help.

He seemed to exhibit a tendency to escalate his behavior toward physical confrontation, so he might very well be a danger to others or himself.

He did? When was that?
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Old 17th September 2012, 06:14 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
He did? When was that?
Didn't he show up at an atheists' or skeptics' gathering in Canada? The one where he was photographed.

I'm on my phone, so a bit hard to look it up now...

ETA: See http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7471471
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Old 17th September 2012, 06:19 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
Didn't he show up at an atheists' or skeptics' gathering in Canada? The one where he was photographed.

I'm on my phone, so a bit hard to look it up now...
Well, I don't recall him being violent. PZ Myers account is:

Quote:
A while after someone pulled a fire alarm in the hotel, he appeared in the hall, ranted and raged and argued incoherently with a few of the attendees, and then…ran away. Really! He ran off! I was right there in the hall, and I missed him! I’m so disappointed. Apparently, though, in his swift and flighty passage through the room, he spotted me and then fled to the lobby to brag online about seeing me.
go post this up on “pharnygula”. I’ve had an opportunity to see PZ’s ugly face in real life! I am spamming the world from the Delta Hotel where the convention is taking place….
No mention of violence there.


ETA: Ah, I see that the wording was "physical confrontation", which I interpreted as "violence". I suppose you could characterise appearing in person as "physical confrontation", but it's a big leap from that to actually being a danger to others.

And I have no problem with him being prosecuted for what he's actually done, it just annoys me slightly that people assume that he's automatically a physical danger as well as a nuisance.
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Old 17th September 2012, 06:22 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Well, I don't recall him being violent. PZ Myers account is:



No mention of violence there.
Ah, I see your point.

However, the fact that he showed up in person could be termed a step in an escalation to physical confrontation, beyond just online harassment.
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Old 17th September 2012, 08:49 AM   #245
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I seem to remember reading about him having made online threats to confront somebody in person, then he showed up at the conference but ran off when somebody recognized and photographed him.

That's what I was referring to.
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:27 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
And I have no problem with him being prosecuted for what he's actually done, it just annoys me slightly that people assume that he's automatically a physical danger as well as a nuisance.
I can't imagine why anybody would be concerned when someone who spends quite literally all of his online time making threats of various degrees of creepy toward people suddenly starts physically showing up at the hotels those people are staying in.
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:36 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by devnull View Post
or, you know, everyone could just ignore him so he no longer feels validated and goes and obsesses about some other aspect of his life until he goes of the deep end and is committed.
Are you really that unfamiliar with the actions of Mabus/Markuze?

You're talking about someone who (according to one account) spent the better part of a day sending out repeats of the same message through various accounts, through forums, twitter and email. Such messages are an annoyance, either to those who have to read them (even if you try skipping them, they still clog in baskets and forums), or administrators who have to cancel his sock puppets/delete his spam.

With that type of production, it is unlikely that he will just "go away" any time soon.

You're talking about someone who has actually made death threats, and has actually shown up at meetings. Some people find death threats to be, well, over the line.
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Old 17th September 2012, 10:13 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
I suppose you could characterise appearing in person as "physical confrontation", but it's a big leap from that to actually being a danger to others.

I consider it a "physical confrontation" to physically show up at a place among people he's personally threatened with violence, and rant and rail at them in person.

Please note that I'm not claiming to know that this guy represents an actual physical threat. I'm just saying that this pattern of escalating confrontation is known to have lead to violence enough times in the past, that we should not ignore it when we witness it happening around us in real time.
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Last edited by John Albert; 17th September 2012 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 17th September 2012, 10:50 AM   #249
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He's been documented since at least 1993. Shall we give it another 20 years then, of death threats to individuals ?
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Old 17th September 2012, 03:08 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by devnull View Post
or, you know, everyone could just ignore him so he no longer feels validated and goes and obsesses about some other aspect of his life until he goes of the deep end and is committed.
His behavior suggests someone who feels alienated from the world and he acts out to get attention. Judging from his decade long pattern, lack of validation may increase his desire for attention, to the point that could involve harm to others.

"No one will ignore me now"
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Old 19th September 2012, 09:39 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
You're talking about someone who has actually made death threats, and has actually shown up at meetings. Some people find death threats to be, well, over the line.


Not to mention, he's been arrested for this already. If being arrested hasn't gotten him to knock it off, I can't imagine ignoring him will do any better. This isn't just some stupid troll, he's a seriously disturbed person. You can't expect rational behavior from him.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 02:17 PM   #252
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Old 23rd September 2012, 06:29 PM   #253
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I would have hoped that Montreal authorities and police had not forgotten Valery_FabrikantWP. But apparently they have.
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Old 24th September 2012, 07:19 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I would have hoped that Montreal authorities and police had not forgotten Valery_FabrikantWP. But apparently they have.
Interesting, I was unaware of this story.

Coincidentally, Mabus himself was a Concordia student around 1993-1994 or so.
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Old 26th September 2012, 08:14 AM   #255
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Just FYI, it appears he got back on Twitter again yesterday. He created at least three accounts and resumed what he was doing last year that got him in trouble in the first place.

One of the accounts, named @XJustos2, hasn't been suspended yet and you can see it here.

The SPVM (Montreal Police) Twitter account has already replied that they are aware of it.
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Old 17th October 2012, 12:36 PM   #256
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He's back on the JREF Swift blog.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...classroom.html

I wonder if he has a regular schedule, like spamming Swift on the third Wednesday of each month, Skepticality.com forum every even-numbered Thursday, make a new Twitter account every new moon...
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Old 17th October 2012, 12:59 PM   #257
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I reported it. I expect it will be deleted soon. What a joke his court orders are. Either they should be enforced or deleted.
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Old 17th October 2012, 05:01 PM   #258
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My total amateur opinion is that showing up there means he is willing to go through physical efforts (ie, traveling) in accordance with his online activities, and the brief description of his behavior there, though not technically violent, suggests a lack of distinction between his online and offline personalities (ie, he isn't just a troll who is crude on the Internet but more civilized in real life). Sounds dangerous.
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Old 19th November 2012, 02:01 PM   #259
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Montreal Police confirms via Twitter that Markuze has been arrested again for breach of probation. https://twitter.com/SPVM/status/270625482049998849
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Old 19th November 2012, 03:15 PM   #260
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From the Montreal Gazette:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/techn...237/story.html

Ward
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Old 20th November 2012, 04:18 AM   #261
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Markuze arrested again.

Quote:
Dennis Markuze, 40, faces three new charges, including one alleging he violated the conditions of a sentence he received in May for the same offence. He was also charged with threatening the Montreal police officer who was investigating claims from several of Markuze’s past victims. Those victims alleged that Markuze’s threats have intensified in recent months.
It appears that this is despite the efforts of Montreal police to ignore the matter:
Quote:
In August, Tim Farley, one of the people Markuze admitted to threatening in May, asked Montreal police to investigate but was initially told that, in their opinion, no such order existed. It wasn’t until Farley relayed verbatim sections of Quebec Court Judge Louise Bourdeau’s May 22 judgment to the Montreal police that they finally decided to investigate Markuze again.
More here and here.


ETA: Bugger should have checked before posting.
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Old 20th November 2012, 04:44 AM   #262
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Poor guy. Here's hoping his mental health improves soon.
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Old 20th November 2012, 04:13 PM   #263
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More information on the case than you could possibly know what to do with, straight from Tim Farley:

Mabus Redux: Operation Archangel Gets Dennis Markuze Arrested
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Old 20th November 2012, 04:33 PM   #264
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Quote:
I’d like to thank the many people who provided important assistance at various phases of this story. Some simply passed along a tidbit of info such as an IP address, or relayed my request to someone else. Some went out of their way to make sure something important got done. But each played a part in getting some action to occur.
Jonathan Abrams, David Almandsmith, Naomi Baker, Derek Bartholomaus, Ophelia Benson, Tim Binga, Bob Blaskiewicz, Glenn Branch, Nelson Brooke, Paul Cherry, Joe Cogan, Derek Colanduno, Greta Christina, Mike Cornwell, Sadie Crabtree, J.D. “Doctor X”, Barbara Drescher, Livius Drusus, ”MNMoose” Eckland, John Ellis, Mark Farrington, BlahBlah Ginger, Stephane Giroux, David Gluck, Craig Hansen, Heather Henderson, Matthijs Hilhorst, Sharon Hill, Zinnia Jones, Greg Laden, Mikael Lännqvist, Karl Mamer, James McGrath, Hemant Mehta, Ashley Miller, Rhys Morgan, Nhoj Morley, Orphia Nay, Jenny Paradis-Hagar, L. Petrich, William Raillant-Clark, The Radio Freethinker crew, James Randi, Brad Reddekopp, Travis Roy, Martin Rundkvist, Nicholas Gunther Schaefer, Tara C. Smith, Helen Sotiriadis, Steve Thoms, Kyle VanderBeek, Martin Wagner, Seanna Watson and Stephanie Zvan and of course the detectives and investigators of the SPVM who patiently read my emails and listened to my phone calls, even when they thought they had no avenues open to them.
Astute observers of the Mabus saga may notice the absence of a particular name here. While this person has blogged about Markuze many times over the years (even demanding action from the authorities in some posts) I found him to be astonishingly uncooperative during this investigation. With so many others volunteering to help, he stood out in his lack of assistance. Lesson learned – some bloggers are all talk and no action.
No prizes for working out which name is missing.
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Old 20th November 2012, 05:36 PM   #265
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Which...

Never mind, I just worked it out.
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Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.
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Old 20th November 2012, 05:39 PM   #266
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In an unexpectedly creepy development, she also told me she found a paper letter Markuze had written to me at his house. She couldn’t share the entire contents with me, but said it was written as if Markuze and I had corresponded more than once. I’ve never contacted him, other than brief encounters online. I’ve certainly never spoken with him. I have no idea why he was composing letters to me.
Wow, that certainly throws up a WTF pennant.
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Old 20th November 2012, 05:54 PM   #267
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Perhaps the letters were written early on when he was attempting to stick to the court orders, but they were never sent because it was easier to just go back to using the computer since the police didn't seem to care.

Ward
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Old 20th November 2012, 06:05 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
More information on the case than you could possibly know what to do with, straight from Tim Farley:

Mabus Redux: Operation Archangel Gets Dennis Markuze Arrested

Wow. Thanks for that.
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Old 20th November 2012, 08:08 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
More information on the case than you could possibly know what to do with, straight from Tim Farley:

Mabus Redux: Operation Archangel Gets Dennis Markuze Arrested

Excellent writeup from Tim/krelnik. Thanks for linking to it.
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Old 20th November 2012, 08:42 PM   #270
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Congratulations to all involved in his arrest.
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Old 21st November 2012, 12:37 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle View Post
No prizes for working out which name is missing.
Isn't there another name, of the opposite sex, also missing?
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Old 21st November 2012, 08:52 AM   #272
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Thanks for the kind words, it was a lot of work. I'm a bit annoyed that they released him immediately, but I have no control over that.

If folks have any questions about the case, we'll be doing our normal weekly Virtual Skeptics webcast at 8pm EST tonight (that's 1am GMT) and I'll be talking about Mabus. That's about 8 hours from now as I post this.

You can ask questions live during the webcast via YouTube comments or on Twitter with the hashtag #VirtualSkeptics.

If you can't watch it live, or missed it, a recorded copy will be available immediately after.
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Old 21st November 2012, 03:24 PM   #273
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This is a good few words from some folks on another forum:

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I could only wish if I ever got locked into some psychotic delusion that threatening atheists and spamming them with depeche mode videos and pictures of baby goats was doing god's work, and my family seemed to pretend like it's a phase I'll grow out of, I could be so lucky that my imagined enemies would patiently work through the official processes to get me HELP I really need. Many communities might just crowd source my location and then be waiting for me outside my apartment one night and beat the *********** **** out of me.
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That's the thing that's really struck me about this whole case. Draw a comic about Muhammad? Become the target of a fatwa. Be a black Democrat in the White House? Get Republican pastors leading their congregations praying for your death. Spend YEARS sending death threats to a bunch of atheists online? Become the target of a dedicated campaign to get you treatment for your psychiatric problems.
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Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 06:45 AM   #274
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Wow, thanks for posting that. Glad it came across that it wasn't a revenge thing, we just want this guy to get some good treatment.
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Old 3rd December 2012, 08:27 PM   #275
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I've received one report that Mabus may be emailing some folks again, from a very old email address.

If you receive such an email, please forward it to me using one of the procedures I describe in this blog post. You can send it to the webmaster@ email address on my whatstheharm.net site.
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Old 8th January 2013, 01:21 PM   #276
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I have been informed that Mr. Markuze's next hearing is scheduled for Monday, February 25th.
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Old 9th January 2013, 11:04 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
I have been informed that Mr. Markuze's next hearing is scheduled for Monday, February 25th.
For everybody's sake, I hope they find some way of resolving this case.
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Old 9th January 2013, 07:59 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
I have been informed that Mr. Markuze's next hearing is scheduled for Monday, February 25th.

What is the nature of the February 25 hearing, so far as you know? Is it a remand date or plea date or something else?
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Old 11th January 2013, 10:36 AM   #279
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My understanding is it is a remand/procedural hearing type thing, no doubt to be followed by another court date of some kind.
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Old 14th January 2013, 11:46 PM   #280
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Maybe I don't want to become a noted atheist / humanist / reasoning person / skeptic blogger.

I have kids. I wouldn't want a creep coming after me, online or IRL -- but put my kids at risk? Unh-uh.
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