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Skeptical Greg · 19th January 2013, 12:53 PM

Can vegans stomach the unpalatable truth about quinoa?

Quote:

Ethical consumers should be aware poor Bolivians can no longer afford their staple grain, due to western demand raising prices.

In a similar vein, I remember when chicken wings and beef skirt ( fajita meat ) were relatively cheap ( poor folks food ) until they became popular restaurant items.

Sam.I.Am · 19th January 2013, 01:44 PM

Tell me about it. Ox tail went from about a buck a pound to up to five bucks a pound almost overnight out here. The same thing with smoked ham hocks. I was at the butchers counter the other day and even the tripe was selling for over three bucks a pound. I think that it's because restaurants are starting to serve them and people are finding out that they don't taste like they thought that they would.

That and the food channel.

leftysergeant · 19th January 2013, 01:49 PM

Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place.

TubbaBlubba · 19th January 2013, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am

Tell me about it. Ox tail went from about a buck a pound to up to five bucks a pound almost overnight out here. The same thing with smoked ham hocks. I was at the butchers counter the other day and even the tripe was selling for over three bucks a pound. I think that it's because restaurants are starting to serve them and people are finding out that they don't taste like they thought that they would.

That and the food channel.

My favourite cuts of meat tend to be the cheap, slow-cooked ones. I also enjoy the challenge in finding ways to cook them quickly.

Lisa Simpson · 19th January 2013, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place.

That's not at all what the article in the OP is about.

GrouchoMarxist · 19th January 2013, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place.

How much meat should a meat eater eat, if a meat eater shoud eat meat?

NotJesus · 19th January 2013, 02:32 PM

As Roseanne Roseannadanna would say -- It's always something.

Duffy Moon · 19th January 2013, 02:36 PM

I bought some quinoa for the first time last week.
I haven't tried it yet though.

It's pronounced 'keen-wa', apparently.

Tsukasa Buddha · 19th January 2013, 02:38 PM

Issues of food export are quite common in history, but I don't really see what veganism has to do with it, other than the author's desperate attempts to connect the two. Seems like an attempted cheap shot at those silly "first-world ethical consumers" rather than an examination of the problem.

Here's the first vegan response I found to the article, and the author is similarly confused about the target for the antagonism.

Quote:

Like, if we stopped buying quinoa, would that help people in Bolivia? I don’t see how it would. So what’s the right answer? I would think it had to do with politics and if the Bolivian government can control prices and exports. But really I don’t know—do you? If you don’t, Blythman is not here to help. She offers no solutions, insights, or suggestions; she just uses this very complicated situation as an excuse to question our values as vegans. If she has some solutions or a plan to solve the quinoa issue, I’m all ears. But I don’t need some omni telling me how to be a better vegan.

Alareth · 19th January 2013, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place.

My philosophy is that nature gave me canines for a reason and evolution is slowly moving in the direction of fewer molars for grinding roughage.

Therefore, pass the steak.

Skeptical Greg · 19th January 2013, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Alareth

My philosophy is that nature gave me canines for a reason and evolution is slowly moving in the direction of fewer molars for grinding roughage.

Therefore, pass the steak.

This is not a Vegan vs Meat eating thread; please contribute to the topic..

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha

Issues of food export are quite common in history, but I don't really see what veganism has to do with it, other than the author's desperate attempts to connect the two. Seems like an attempted cheap shot at those silly "first-world ethical consumers" rather than an examination of the problem.

Desperate ? Cheap shot ?

What do you think is the problem?

I'm willing to listen if you can think of another explanation ..

Quote:

Like, if we stopped buying quinoa, would that help people in Bolivia? I don’t see how it would.

Well duhh..

If the demand went down, so would the price; which is what is hurting the people in Bolivia..

bobwtfomg · 19th January 2013, 03:29 PM

Thirld world countries exporting foodstuffs to richer developed countries leading to rising food prices and consequently to malnutrition and hunger is a real problem.
Much of this is then fed to animals to satisfy the demands of first world meat eaters.
Putting all the blame onto vegans seems like misdirection, is it even true that quinoa is eaten mostly by vegans?

btw I'm not a vegan.

Kahalachan · 19th January 2013, 03:31 PM

The article says chicken is now cheaper than quinoa. So Bolivians will eat more meat.

So they won't go hungry or starve. They'll just kill more animals cause of vegans.

Tsukasa Buddha · 19th January 2013, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

Desperate ? Cheap shot ?

Yes, we don't know how much of the demand is due to vegans, we don't know how the local government reacted to this demand, etc.

The Big Thing for "ethical consumers" right now is local grown, so I kinda doubt they are the cause of the increase.

Quote:

What do you think is the problem?

It could be any number of things. The government could have been lax in providing infrastructure for increased demand, or perhaps some protectionism could have been in order (*gasp*). I don't know, but having read about many other food export dilemmas, I highly doubt vegans are to blame. They would have just provided a demand (of some extent).

Quote:

Well duhh..

If the demand went down, so would the price; which is what is hurting the people in Bolivia..

We need five cc's Adam Smith, stat!

Tsukasa Buddha · 19th January 2013, 03:52 PM

This article is a deeper look at it. For me, it is another food export story. The vegan angle is incidental.

And hang on, isn't this supposed to be what happens when the Free Market lifts agrarian societies out of poverty (once we stop subsidising local growers)?

jasonpatterson · 19th January 2013, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

Can vegans stomach the unpalatable truth about quinoa?

In a similar vein, I remember when chicken wings and beef skirt ( fajita meat ) were relatively cheap ( poor folks food ) until they became popular restaurant items.

Doesn't this mean that there are farmers in Bolivia making a killing? The same type of person who is buying quinoa also tends to be the sort of person who would buy 'ethically sourced' foods as well, I suspect. ('Ethically sourced' in quotes because I don't really want to start an argument about who gets money from what.) If the price for selling locally wasn't lower than the price of selling (ultimately) at Whole Foods, then the farmers would happily sell at the market down the road.

Originally Posted by Duffy Moon

I bought some quinoa for the first time last week.
I haven't tried it yet though.

It's pronounced 'keen-wa', apparently.

It's OK, nothing special really. We've been buying the stuff for about a decade because my wife found some recipe for it a while back. We only go through about 2 pounds a year though. If you find some way to cook it that winds up being spectacular, feel free to PM me.

Modified · 19th January 2013, 05:30 PM

Isn't this a result of the gluten-free/wheat-is-evil craze?

Unabogie · 19th January 2013, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Modified

Isn't this a result of the gluten-free/wheat-is-evil craze?

No. Quinoa has a lot of protein, so it's a good grain to use if you don't eat meat. Plus it's delicious.

Puppycow · 20th January 2013, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

Can vegans stomach the unpalatable truth about quinoa?

In a similar vein, I remember when chicken wings and beef skirt ( fajita meat ) were relatively cheap ( poor folks food ) until they became popular restaurant items.

I'm not even a vegan, but this is bull.

First of all, do only vegans eat quinoa? And even if they did, so what?

The best cure for high prices is high prices. If wealthy people with a taste for quinoa are driving the price of it up, then more farmers will want to grow quinoa. Supply will catch up with demand. And wealth will be transferred to the countries that produce it. Poor countries can only develop economically if they have something they can sell that other countries want to buy. So Bolivians and Peruvians can thank vegans for helping them to become a more developed country. More development means a higher standard of living for the people.

Furthermore, you could make the same argument about any food. The US turns corn into ethanol to fuel cars, driving up the price of food everywhere.

Brian-M · 20th January 2013, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Kahalachan

The article says chicken is now cheaper than quinoa. So Bolivians will eat more meat.

So they won't go hungry or starve. They'll just kill more animals cause of vegans.

That doesn't mean that chicken has gotten cheaper, just that quinoa is a lot more expensive. Those who were barely able to afford quinoa as a food staple will be forced to spend more money for less food.

bit_pattern · 20th January 2013, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

This is not a Vegan vs Meat eating thread; please contribute to the topic..

You pretty much invited that kind of response with the way you framed the thread with your provocative title...

dafydd · 20th January 2013, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Alareth

Therefore, pass the steak.

With Bearnaise sauce.

IMST · 20th January 2013, 12:57 PM

Why isn't the answer here growing more of the stuff?
Looks like it's demands are to have a miserable climate and soil. I'm pretty sure that's achievable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinoa#Cultivation

Halfcentaur · 20th January 2013, 01:58 PM

A good chuck eye steak puts ribeye and tbone to shame.

Puppycow · 20th January 2013, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by IMST

Why isn't the answer here growing more of the stuff?

It is.

PhantomWolf · 20th January 2013, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place.

Really? I didn't know that grass was human food...

theprestige · 20th January 2013, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

This is not a Vegan vs Meat eating thread; please contribute to the topic..

Desperate ? Cheap shot ?

What do you think is the problem?

I'm willing to listen if you can think of another explanation ..

Well duhh..

If the demand went down, so would the price; which is what is hurting the people in Bolivia..

You make some good points. That probably explains why nobody in Saudi Arabia can afford to buy gas anymore, either.

Oh, wait. No it doesn't.

Usually, when demand for a product goes up, the people who produce the product get wealthier. If that's not happening in Bolivia, it's probably because Bolivians are doing it wrong, not because their market is growing.

ThunderChunky · 20th January 2013, 03:24 PM

I eat quinoa with meat.

Kevin_Lowe · 20th January 2013, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Really? I didn't know that grass was human food...

If you do a bit of research, it's going to turn out that animals raised for meat do eat an awful lot of human-edible grains. Even pasture-raised animals are often grain-fed in feedlots for a final burst of weight gain before slaughter.

In terms of energy-efficiency this is inarguably a terrible way to create calories for human consumption.

appalling · 20th January 2013, 03:38 PM

Lots of people do it wrong, then.

There are certainly some people who cannot afford gas in Saudi Arabia. It's not nobody, true, but it's not a "gas for everybody" utopia.

Darth Rotor · 20th January 2013, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Here's the first vegan response I found to the article, and the author is similarly confused about the target for the antagonism.

Quote:

Quote:
Like, if we stopped buying quinoa, would that help people in Bolivia?

About as vacuous a response as I'd have predicted. No surprise.

Darth Rotor · 20th January 2013, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by ThunderChunky

I eat quinoa with meat.

Ok, nice response. We've tried a few quinoa dishes, and we like them.

I seem to recall that about five or six years ago, when the idiotic "corn for gasoline" madness was really big, the price of corn for the average Mexican family to make tortillas with about doubled. For those living at the harder edge of the socio economic spectrum, this was a non trivial hardship. That price spike didn't last, but for a short while, it put a burden on people thanks to crap policy.

This has nothing to do with policy, but with taste and trends. There is no accounting for taste, which you can't legislate. Blame game seems rather lame, from here.

Heads off to set fire to some charcoal.

Gonna do kabobs and grilled veggies for dinner tonight. No quinoa in the house, so any chance I had to oppress Bolivians is negated by mere non presence.

Kevin_Lowe · 20th January 2013, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

About as vacuous a response as I'd have predicted. No surprise.

Darth Rotor · 20th January 2013, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin_Lowe

Kevin, if you choose to hold idiot speak in high regard, you should take no pride in that.

looks to be your bumper sticker at the moment.

appalling · 20th January 2013, 04:21 PM

The presence of the word "Like" did not make her question unintelligible or necessarily vacuous to me.

It seemed ungenerous to focus on it.

You seemed to say there that you expect to hear vacuous things from anyone vegan, which could, in turn, be thought of as a vacuous suggestion.

Kevin_Lowe · 20th January 2013, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Kevin, if you choose to hold idiot speak in high regard, you should take no pride in that.

looks to be your bumper sticker at the moment.

You don't see the irony in posting a comment that consists of absolutely nothing whatsoever other than the unsupported claim that someone else's argument is vacuous?

Puppycow · 20th January 2013, 07:38 PM

Even the article in the OP says the following:

Quote:

Soya, a foodstuff beloved of the vegan lobby as an alternative to dairy products, is another problematic import, one that drives environmental destruction [see footnote]. Embarrassingly, for those who portray it as a progressive alternative to planet-destroying meat, soya production is now one of the two main causes of deforestation in South America, along with cattle ranching, where vast expanses of forest and grassland have been felled to make way for huge plantations.

Meaning that cattle ranching is the No.1 main cause of deforestation in South America and soya production is 2nd.

appalling · 20th January 2013, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Soya, a foodstuff beloved of the vegan lobby as an alternative to dairy products, is another problematic import

It's also outright misleading to represent soya as a specifically vegan concern.

What a funny bias. China is a major buyer of soya, not the vegans the writer of the article is likely to have encountered in the UK.

theprestige · 20th January 2013, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by appalling

Lots of people do it wrong, then.

There are certainly some people who cannot afford gas in Saudi Arabia. It's not nobody, true, but it's not a "gas for everybody" utopia.

Far be it from me to suggest that Saudi Arabia is a utopia.

On the other hand, whose fault is it that some people in Saudi Arabia are impoverished? Those that willingly pay the market price for gasoline? Or those that control the supply?

And in Bolivia? Whose fault is it that some Bolivians are impoverished? Is it the fault of those who are willing to pay a premium for quinoa? How does that work?

bit_pattern · 21st January 2013, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Really? I didn't know that grass was human food...

You live in NZ, dude. The rest of the Western world (i.e. EU and NA) feed their stock with grain.

19th January 2013, 12:53 PM	#1
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,894	Thanks Vegans - We Can No Longer Afford Staple Can vegans stomach the unpalatable truth about quinoa? Quote: Ethical consumers should be aware poor Bolivians can no longer afford their staple grain, due to western demand raising prices. In a similar vein, I remember when chicken wings and beef skirt ( fajita meat ) were relatively cheap ( poor folks food ) until they became popular restaurant items.
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

19th January 2013, 01:44 PM	#2
Sam.I.Am Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hunting Moose and Squirrel Posts: 4,164	Tell me about it. Ox tail went from about a buck a pound to up to five bucks a pound almost overnight out here. The same thing with smoked ham hocks. I was at the butchers counter the other day and even the tripe was selling for over three bucks a pound. I think that it's because restaurants are starting to serve them and people are finding out that they don't taste like they thought that they would. That and the food channel.
	__________________ "Swift, silent and deadly" was a part of my job description Upon hearing me say that my friend asked me "So you're a fart?"... About my avatar.

19th January 2013, 01:49 PM	#3
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,614	Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place.
	__________________ No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat.

19th January 2013, 01:53 PM	#4
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,479	Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am Tell me about it. Ox tail went from about a buck a pound to up to five bucks a pound almost overnight out here. The same thing with smoked ham hocks. I was at the butchers counter the other day and even the tripe was selling for over three bucks a pound. I think that it's because restaurants are starting to serve them and people are finding out that they don't taste like they thought that they would. That and the food channel. My favourite cuts of meat tend to be the cheap, slow-cooked ones. I also enjoy the challenge in finding ways to cook them quickly.
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

19th January 2013, 01:55 PM	#5
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,111	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place. That's not at all what the article in the OP is about.
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

19th January 2013, 02:07 PM	#6
GrouchoMarxist Cowardly insulter of Buddhism Join Date: May 2008 Location: Surly Bonds correctional facility Posts: 942	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place. How much meat should a meat eater eat, if a meat eater shoud eat meat?
	__________________ I can't believe that having said what I said was interpreted as having been what I said when I said it, because I said it where I said it, when I said it, and who I said it to. Only in America!

19th January 2013, 02:32 PM	#7
NotJesus Unsaviory Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: LA Posts: 5,589	As Roseanne Roseannadanna would say -- It's always something.
	__________________ I have now reread what I've just written, and I see that I'm much more intelligent than what I've written. How does it come about that what an intelligent man expresses is much stupider than what remains inside him? -Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Adolescent

19th January 2013, 02:36 PM	#8
Duffy Moon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Coventry, UK Posts: 1,621	I bought some quinoa for the first time last week. I haven't tried it yet though. It's pronounced 'keen-wa', apparently.
	__________________ Man activated by compu-puncture hyperpower

19th January 2013, 02:38 PM	#9
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 10,037	Issues of food export are quite common in history, but I don't really see what veganism has to do with it, other than the author's desperate attempts to connect the two. Seems like an attempted cheap shot at those silly "first-world ethical consumers" rather than an examination of the problem. Here's the first vegan response I found to the article, and the author is similarly confused about the target for the antagonism. Quote: Like, if we stopped buying quinoa, would that help people in Bolivia? I don’t see how it would. So what’s the right answer? I would think it had to do with politics and if the Bolivian government can control prices and exports. But really I don’t know—do you? If you don’t, Blythman is not here to help. She offers no solutions, insights, or suggestions; she just uses this very complicated situation as an excuse to question our values as vegans. If she has some solutions or a plan to solve the quinoa issue, I’m all ears. But I don’t need some omni telling me how to be a better vegan.
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

19th January 2013, 02:58 PM	#10
Alareth Expert Expertologist Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 6,809	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place. My philosophy is that nature gave me canines for a reason and evolution is slowly moving in the direction of fewer molars for grinding roughage. Therefore, pass the steak.
	__________________ Pixelated Reality \| Alareth Does Art! Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak

19th January 2013, 03:18 PM	#11
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,894	Originally Posted by Alareth My philosophy is that nature gave me canines for a reason and evolution is slowly moving in the direction of fewer molars for grinding roughage. Therefore, pass the steak. This is not a Vegan vs Meat eating thread; please contribute to the topic.. Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha Issues of food export are quite common in history, but I don't really see what veganism has to do with it, other than the author's desperate attempts to connect the two. Seems like an attempted cheap shot at those silly "first-world ethical consumers" rather than an examination of the problem. Desperate ? Cheap shot ? What do you think is the problem? I'm willing to listen if you can think of another explanation .. Quote: Like, if we stopped buying quinoa, would that help people in Bolivia? I don’t see how it would. Well duhh.. If the demand went down, so would the price; which is what is hurting the people in Bolivia..
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Last edited by Skeptical Greg; 19th January 2013 at 03:19 PM.

19th January 2013, 03:29 PM	#12
bobwtfomg Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 294	Thirld world countries exporting foodstuffs to richer developed countries leading to rising food prices and consequently to malnutrition and hunger is a real problem. Much of this is then fed to animals to satisfy the demands of first world meat eaters. Putting all the blame onto vegans seems like misdirection, is it even true that quinoa is eaten mostly by vegans? btw I'm not a vegan.

19th January 2013, 03:31 PM	#13
Kahalachan Illuminator Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,337	The article says chicken is now cheaper than quinoa. So Bolivians will eat more meat. So they won't go hungry or starve. They'll just kill more animals cause of vegans.
Kahalachan Illuminator Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,337	__________________ For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

19th January 2013, 03:45 PM	#14
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 10,037	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg Desperate ? Cheap shot ? Yes, we don't know how much of the demand is due to vegans, we don't know how the local government reacted to this demand, etc. The Big Thing for "ethical consumers" right now is local grown, so I kinda doubt they are the cause of the increase. Quote: What do you think is the problem? It could be any number of things. The government could have been lax in providing infrastructure for increased demand, or perhaps some protectionism could have been in order (gasp). I don't know, but having read about many other food export dilemmas, I highly doubt vegans are to blame. They would have just provided a demand (of some extent). Quote: Well duhh.. If the demand went down, so would the price; which is what is hurting the people in Bolivia.. We need five cc's Adam Smith, stat!
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

19th January 2013, 03:52 PM	#15
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 10,037	This article is a deeper look at it. For me, it is another food export story. The vegan angle is incidental. And hang on, isn't this supposed to be what happens when the Free Market lifts agrarian societies out of poverty (once we stop subsidising local growers)?
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn Last edited by Tsukasa Buddha; 19th January 2013 at 03:58 PM.

19th January 2013, 04:55 PM	#16
jasonpatterson Philanthropic Misanthrope Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Space, The Final Frontier Posts: 2,197	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg Can vegans stomach the unpalatable truth about quinoa? In a similar vein, I remember when chicken wings and beef skirt ( fajita meat ) were relatively cheap ( poor folks food ) until they became popular restaurant items. Doesn't this mean that there are farmers in Bolivia making a killing? The same type of person who is buying quinoa also tends to be the sort of person who would buy 'ethically sourced' foods as well, I suspect. ('Ethically sourced' in quotes because I don't really want to start an argument about who gets money from what.) If the price for selling locally wasn't lower than the price of selling (ultimately) at Whole Foods, then the farmers would happily sell at the market down the road. Originally Posted by Duffy Moon I bought some quinoa for the first time last week. I haven't tried it yet though. It's pronounced 'keen-wa', apparently. It's OK, nothing special really. We've been buying the stuff for about a decade because my wife found some recipe for it a while back. We only go through about 2 pounds a year though. If you find some way to cook it that winds up being spectacular, feel free to PM me.
	__________________ Sandra's seen a leprechaun, Eddie touched a troll, Laurie danced with witches once, Charlie found some goblins' gold. Donald heard a mermaid sing, Susie spied an elf, But all the magic I have known I've had to make myself. - Shel Silverstein

19th January 2013, 05:30 PM	#17
Modified Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SW Florida Posts: 4,062	Isn't this a result of the gluten-free/wheat-is-evil craze?

19th January 2013, 05:35 PM	#18
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,921	Originally Posted by Modified Isn't this a result of the gluten-free/wheat-is-evil craze? No. Quinoa has a lot of protein, so it's a good grain to use if you don't eat meat. Plus it's delicious.

20th January 2013, 01:06 AM	#19
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 16,034	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg Can vegans stomach the unpalatable truth about quinoa? In a similar vein, I remember when chicken wings and beef skirt ( fajita meat ) were relatively cheap ( poor folks food ) until they became popular restaurant items. I'm not even a vegan, but this is bull. First of all, do only vegans eat quinoa? And even if they did, so what? The best cure for high prices is high prices. If wealthy people with a taste for quinoa are driving the price of it up, then more farmers will want to grow quinoa. Supply will catch up with demand. And wealth will be transferred to the countries that produce it. Poor countries can only develop economically if they have something they can sell that other countries want to buy. So Bolivians and Peruvians can thank vegans for helping them to become a more developed country. More development means a higher standard of living for the people. Furthermore, you could make the same argument about any food. The US turns corn into ethanol to fuel cars, driving up the price of food everywhere.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

20th January 2013, 01:45 AM	#20
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,388	Originally Posted by Kahalachan The article says chicken is now cheaper than quinoa. So Bolivians will eat more meat. So they won't go hungry or starve. They'll just kill more animals cause of vegans. That doesn't mean that chicken has gotten cheaper, just that quinoa is a lot more expensive. Those who were barely able to afford quinoa as a food staple will be forced to spend more money for less food.
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

20th January 2013, 02:01 AM	#21
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg This is not a Vegan vs Meat eating thread; please contribute to the topic.. You pretty much invited that kind of response with the way you framed the thread with your provocative title...
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	__________________ "You are the epitome of the 'pigeon playing chess'. No matter how good I am at chess, you are just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board and strut around like you've won something" "In this political climate, all of science is vulnerable to ideological attack when reality disagrees with political beliefs."

20th January 2013, 12:22 PM	#22
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by Alareth Therefore, pass the steak. With Bearnaise sauce.
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20th January 2013, 12:57 PM	#23
IMST If Charlie Parker Was a Gunslinger, There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,133	Why isn't the answer here growing more of the stuff? Looks like it's demands are to have a miserable climate and soil. I'm pretty sure that's achievable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinoa#Cultivation
	__________________ Creativity is more than just being different. Anybody can plan weird; that's easy. What's hard is to be as simple as Bach. Making the simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. - Charles Mingus

20th January 2013, 01:58 PM	#24
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 6,006	A good chuck eye steak puts ribeye and tbone to shame.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 6,006

20th January 2013, 02:35 PM	#25
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 16,034	Originally Posted by IMST Why isn't the answer here growing more of the stuff? It is.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

20th January 2013, 02:52 PM	#26
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lost Deimos Moon Base Posts: 10,004	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Meat eaters are turning human food into animal food to supply meat eaters with more meat than they really should eat in the first place. Really? I didn't know that grass was human food...
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20th January 2013, 02:55 PM	#27
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,905	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg This is not a Vegan vs Meat eating thread; please contribute to the topic.. Desperate ? Cheap shot ? What do you think is the problem? I'm willing to listen if you can think of another explanation .. Well duhh.. If the demand went down, so would the price; which is what is hurting the people in Bolivia.. You make some good points. That probably explains why nobody in Saudi Arabia can afford to buy gas anymore, either. Oh, wait. No it doesn't. Usually, when demand for a product goes up, the people who produce the product get wealthier. If that's not happening in Bolivia, it's probably because Bolivians are doing it wrong, not because their market is growing.
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,905

20th January 2013, 03:24 PM	#28
ThunderChunky Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 988	I eat quinoa with meat.
ThunderChunky Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 988

20th January 2013, 03:37 PM	#29
Kevin_Lowe Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Queensland Posts: 10,378	Originally Posted by PhantomWolf Really? I didn't know that grass was human food... If you do a bit of research, it's going to turn out that animals raised for meat do eat an awful lot of human-edible grains. Even pasture-raised animals are often grain-fed in feedlots for a final burst of weight gain before slaughter. In terms of energy-efficiency this is inarguably a terrible way to create calories for human consumption.
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20th January 2013, 03:38 PM	#30
appalling Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Beyond the reach of your cars. Posts: 320	Lots of people do it wrong, then. There are certainly some people who cannot afford gas in Saudi Arabia. It's not nobody, true, but it's not a "gas for everybody" utopia.

20th January 2013, 03:40 PM	#31
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,379	Quote: Here's the first vegan response I found to the article, and the author is similarly confused about the target for the antagonism. Quote: Quote: Like, if we stopped buying quinoa, would that help people in Bolivia? About as vacuous a response as I'd have predicted. No surprise.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

20th January 2013, 03:47 PM	#32
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,379	Originally Posted by ThunderChunky I eat quinoa with meat. Ok, nice response. We've tried a few quinoa dishes, and we like them. I seem to recall that about five or six years ago, when the idiotic "corn for gasoline" madness was really big, the price of corn for the average Mexican family to make tortillas with about doubled. For those living at the harder edge of the socio economic spectrum, this was a non trivial hardship. That price spike didn't last, but for a short while, it put a burden on people thanks to crap policy. This has nothing to do with policy, but with taste and trends. There is no accounting for taste, which you can't legislate. Blame game seems rather lame, from here. *Heads off to set fire to some charcoal.* Gonna do kabobs and grilled veggies for dinner tonight. No quinoa in the house, so any chance I had to oppress Bolivians is negated by mere non presence.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

20th January 2013, 03:59 PM	#33
Kevin_Lowe Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Queensland Posts: 10,378	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor About as vacuous a response as I'd have predicted. No surprise.
	__________________ Thinking is skilled work....People with untrained minds should no more expect to think clearly and logically than people who have never learned and never practiced can expect to find themselves good carpenters, golfers, bridge-players, or pianists. -- Alfred Mander

20th January 2013, 04:04 PM	#34
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,379	Originally Posted by Kevin_Lowe Kevin, if you choose to hold idiot speak in high regard, you should take no pride in that. looks to be your bumper sticker at the moment.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

20th January 2013, 04:21 PM	#35
appalling Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Beyond the reach of your cars. Posts: 320	The presence of the word "Like" did not make her question unintelligible or necessarily vacuous to me. It seemed ungenerous to focus on it. You seemed to say there that you expect to hear vacuous things from anyone vegan, which could, in turn, be thought of as a vacuous suggestion.