What personal benefits have you found in either believing, or not believing in a god?

deaman · 30th January 2013, 11:52 AM

I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s).

Thank you.

Empress · 30th January 2013, 12:14 PM

The freedom to see that the universe is an extraordinary, exciting place where gods are superfluous, and to grasp how lucky I am to have been born and be able to enjoy the earth for the short amount of time I have allotted.

Also, the freedom not to feel ashamed every time a random thought scutters across my brain, that I was once brainwashed to believe was sinful thoughtcrime.

RandFan · 30th January 2013, 12:36 PM

Benefits of belief: As a believer I was part of a community that benefited me in many ways. When I decided to leave Mormonism I mourned for the loss of that community. I also found comfort in prayer and divine justice.

Originally Posted by Mathew 11:28

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That was a great source of comfort for me.

Benefits of disbelief: As a believer I suffered significant dissonance. I was often troubled by the things I believed in. IMO: To believe is to be a slave to the belief. And I think there is very good robust body of evidence from different scientific fields in support for that. I realize that you are simply seeking an opinion so I'll not bore anyone with the details. If anyone would like more on that PM me or start a thread.

Bottom line, I'm free from external forces. I do not suffer guilt from doing things my religion deemed sinful but harmed no one. I do not suffer from cognitive dissonance.

It's a trade off but one that is IMO worth it. Truth is it's own reward --Plato.

Halfcentaur · 30th January 2013, 12:59 PM

I actually find life much more meaningful and beautiful aesthetic wise, and I found my sense of decency and morality amplified and justified and enriched by humanism for the sake of benevolence rather than for the sake of an alpha authority figure who punishes you based on what you perceive to be real or not real or based on what this figure deems is reality or not reality.

There was a time when I was terrified in some way to consider the religion of my upbringing was not real, it was just not an option to mentally explore, and knowing this I realize how futile it is to discuss the issue with many a theist. But I also know there are many people who are close to exploring the possibility they are believing something without any intellectually honest of compelling reason beyond cultural tradition or psychological comfort, so it's important to let them know people with my views exist and that they are not wrong or alone to consider the situation from a different point of view.

I still am not comfortable with the finality of death. There is so much I want to see and know.

Jim_MDP · 30th January 2013, 03:46 PM

I find I have a lot more free time on Sundays.

sgtbaker · 30th January 2013, 04:03 PM

Benefit of belief: When bad things happened to me, I told myself that I was chosen for some reason.

Benefits of nonbelief: When bad things happen to me, I don't take it personal. I see a stronger connection between cause and effect and often find myself in awe at how chains of events can be set in motion years and years before it reaches me. I don't really see a distinct divide between "good and bad" people anymore.

John Jones · 30th January 2013, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP

I find I have a lot more free time on Sundays.

That's me.

kellyb · 30th January 2013, 04:34 PM

Benefits of belief: Being able to think that I was being taken care of by an omnipotent force, believing that I'd see deceased loved ones again, divine justice, feeling like I had a purpose "better/more meaningful" than what I can create for myself, community

Benefits of atheism: no cognitive dissonance, periodic empowerment with the idea of creating my own meaning, more sympathy for others and ability to forgive, not having to worry about loved ones roasting in hell, understanding that s*** happens and not constantly worrying that god was punishing me/"teaching me a lesson" about something

Resume · 30th January 2013, 04:35 PM

Non-belief gives me the freedom to trust my own intellect.

Seismosaurus · 30th January 2013, 05:22 PM

I'm free of a lot of rules and expectations. Some are trivial - I get to relax on Sunday instead of going to Church.

Some are more important - I get to judge things on what I see as their own merits, rather than what my religion requires me to believe. For example, I have no problem with homosexuality since I don't have any holy book telling me that the creator of the universe thinks it is an abomination. That's probably made a few friendships easier. Nor do I have to feel guilty about things I do myself that are "sinful" - if I want to look at a beautiful woman lustfully or whatever, I'm free to do it and not feel bad about it.

And that kind of links into some of the deeper things, the way I feel about myself and the world. I don't see myself as this inherently flawed, fallen, corrupt being that deserves the most horrific punishment imaginable. I don't have to walk through life fearing that that could happen because I have an unacceptable attitude about the most trivial of things.

And I get to look out at the universe and marvel at how amazing it all is. I always thought that the truth about the universe that we've uncovered are so much bigger and more majestic than any book of human fables. If I found that christianity or some other religion were true, I'd be crushed because in the end they are so small compared to the reality.

Giraffe107 · 30th January 2013, 06:14 PM

I don't know how to answer the question- I have been an atheist since I was a child, so I have no adult reference for what belief is like. I suppose, non-belief allows me to be myself.

bruto · 30th January 2013, 06:56 PM

I grew up in a Christian tradition and considered myself a believer of a sort for some time, largely by simply deferring problems with belief, figuring some day maybe ideas that made no sense would sort themselves out. So I'd say my main benefit as a nonbeliever is that I can relax.

roger · 30th January 2013, 09:34 PM

The same benefits that I've gained from believing the sky is blue, gravity sucks, and that dogs bark.

Astreja · 30th January 2013, 11:25 PM

When I switched from agnostic theist to agnostic atheist a few years ago, it was because I realized that I could not in good conscience testify "Yes, the gods are real" in a court of law.

The initial phase was one of adjustment, a bit of loneliness and a bit of guilt at having delayed that growing-up, as I relegated the interlocutors of My thoughts to the status of imaginary friends.

As I settled into the new groove, though, it came as a relief. I felt that I was coming from a more honest place than previously.

And if ever I should stumble upon serious evidence for god-like entities, I can hopefully examine the evidence with a bit more objectivity.

Kid Eager · 30th January 2013, 11:48 PM

sleeping in on Sundays

StankApe · 31st January 2013, 12:00 AM

I've been an atheist since I was so young that I really only experience the annoyance of people's questions really.

as someone said on here one time, being an theist is like not being a stamp collector. I don't really know what the benefits of not collecting stamps are... other than I don't have books of stamps lying around.

Baffled · 31st January 2013, 04:26 AM

I remember church being all about confusion and keeping my mouth shut. It was wrong to ask questions. It was even more wrong to not understand in the first place.

For me, freedom from religion allowed my thoughts to blossom into the joy of exploration and wonder. But it took time; I had to unlearn the fear of asking "why" and "how". School was little help -- it merely replaced the authority of the Church with the authority of the Teacher. Asking questions was encouraged, but not understanding in the first place was still punishable.

I had to graduate from both before I could take charge of what I wanted to ask without fear of punishment.

Recovering Agnostic · 31st January 2013, 04:36 AM

I'll be honest, there were a lot of things that were really positive about believing. I was a part of a big ready-made community of like-minded people - I didn't realise how much I was going to miss that, and popping along to a carol service for the tradition of it was very bittersweet. I also took a lot of comfort in the belief that there was a plan and a reason for everything, that someone was in control, and above all that I was loved. And the occasional "spiritual experiences" (sometimes more frequent and deeper than others) were very positive, to the point of being addictive.

Since I gave it up, I suppose the only thing I've really got in exchange for all that is a huge reduction in cognitive dissonance and the indescribable liberation of being able to think freely and reach conclusions without having to constantly pass my thoughts through a sort of internal censor. For the first time in my life, I can genuinely follow where the evidence leads me, rather than following a little way, glancing nervously at the map, and deciding that I don't like the look of the territory up ahead so I'd better turn round to be safe.

I think that's a good exchange, but even if it wasn't, I wouldn't regret deconverting. I'd rather live in grim reality than blissful delusion, so to be consistent, I must honestly assess the evidence. It's to my shame that it took me so long to do it. If there is a God, there should be enough evidence to convince me of that fact, or at least to leave me open to the possibility. If that evidence is lacking, it would be dishonest to myself and others to carry on as if it were true, however much I might want it to be.

MikeG · 31st January 2013, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by StankApe

I've been an atheist since I was so young that I really only experience the annoyance of people's questions really.

as someone said on here one time, being an theist is like not being a stamp collector. I don't really know what the benefits of not collecting stamps are... other than I don't have books of stamps lying around.

Exactly.

-

There is a sort of assumption implicit in the thread title and the OP that this is a cost-benefit analysis, or a weighing up of the factors. However, we're not talking about buying this washing machine as opposed to that washing machine here. This isn't a subject in which the personal ramifications either way can be weighed in the balance. "If I carry on deluding myself I'll at least get invited to the vicar's tea party every spring"....isn't the sort of conversation the sane have with themselves.

Mike

fagin · 31st January 2013, 05:15 AM

I can rape and pillage without fear of going to hell.

tsig · 31st January 2013, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by fagin

I can rape and pillage without fear of going to hell.

And there's the baby bar-b-ques. A keg of beer, some babies on the barbie then an orgy of sex with everything within range animate or not. After that Solemn High Mass seems a bit tame.

Bikewer · 31st January 2013, 06:09 AM

I have a hard time thinking of any great benefit I ever got from Catholicism. The incense stunk, the host stuck to the roof of my mouth, and I always felt guilty after wanking and having "impure thoughts".
The music was pretty bad, and usually in Latin.

Now, I don't have to avoid eating or not eating things, my Sundays are free, and I can wank to my heart's content without guilt or fear.

deaman · 31st January 2013, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

I have a hard time thinking of any great benefit I ever got from Catholicism. The incense stunk, the host stuck to the roof of my mouth, and I always felt guilty after wanking and having "impure thoughts".
The music was pretty bad, and usually in Latin.

Now, I don't have to avoid eating or not eating things, my Sundays are free, and I can wank to my heart's content without guilt or fear.

100 points for complete honesty!

Steve · 1st February 2013, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

I have a hard time thinking of any great benefit I ever got from Catholicism. The incense stunk, the host stuck to the roof of my mouth, and I always felt guilty after wanking and having "impure thoughts".
The music was pretty bad, and usually in Latin.

Now, I don't have to avoid eating or not eating things, my Sundays are free, and I can wank to my heart's content without guilt or fear.

I would disagree (unless you are referring to hymns sung in church

). I have a fondness for western classical music, and much classical music, both voice and instrumental, is based on the Christian (including catholic) religion. I think it is generally pretty good. This, and some darn good paintings and sculpture, were the only real benefits to come from Christianity.

Cainkane1 · 1st February 2013, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by deaman

I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s).

Thank you.

During my childhood I suffered various ailments which included asthma, spinal schliosis and a nervous disorder. Prayer didn't help and I got tired of being told it didn't work because I had no faith. How do you get faith?

At age 12 or perhaps even earlier I came to the conclusion that there was no god. I quit praying because it was a waste of time.

The only benefit of atheism in this situation is that instead of having faith in some invisible uncaring man up in the sky I had faith in modern medicine. I also no longer fear Hell or wonder what Heaven would be like.

Bikewer · 1st February 2013, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Steve

I would disagree (unless you are referring to hymns sung in church

). I have a fondness for western classical music, and much classical music, both voice and instrumental, is based on the Christian (including catholic) religion. I think it is generally pretty good. This, and some darn good paintings and sculpture, were the only real benefits to come from Christianity.

Oh, I agree... It was OUR music that was bad. We had a choir director for many years who was a somewhat eccentric German guy who would tend to get a bit bombastic on the organ, while at the same time the official choir tried hard but had more than a few clinkers in the group.
As well, back in the 50s when I was in elementary school, they used to hustle us over to the church to sing funeral masses. In Latin. To the weeping mourners.....
Lemme tell ya... "Dies Irae" is not a fun tune to render if you're 12....

There's nothing better than Bach's "Tocatta and Fugue" rendered on a really big church organ....

Irony · 1st February 2013, 07:38 PM

Well, for starters as a benefit of disbelief I am no longer expected to hate those who don't follow the "morality" of my old sect (Southern Baptist, so that's quite a lot of people).

Also, I no longer have the shackle of guilt hanging over me for doing the "sinful" sorts of things that two willing adults are sometimes inclined to do together, and that harms no one (In case you don't follow, I'm talking about dancing*).

Also, no more cognative dissonnence over trying to reconcile a 4 billion year old Earth and the Bible, and the free Sunday thing is a nice plus.

*what did you think I was talking about?

Toontown · 1st February 2013, 08:13 PM

Being an atheist, I only have to worry about dying. If I were a believer, I would have to worry about both dying and going to hell. Or heaven*.

Nor am I fond of the idea of a supernatural Peeping Tom hanging over me, reading my mind and watching my every move. A supernatural being who would do that in order to build up a dossier on little old me is not right in the head, IMO, and could not be trusted in the least. *The ones condemned to hell might turn out to be the lucky ones.

Of course there are a couple of other dieties in which one might become enthralled. But if I were a believer, I would almost certainly be of the local variety.

Skeptic Ginger · 1st February 2013, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by deaman

I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s).

Thank you.

It doesn't matter. I can't believe what the evidence doesn't support, with the exception I believe I may win the lottery some day.

Gawdzilla · 2nd February 2013, 09:02 AM

Sunday mornings free.
Fewer hypocrites met.
Less guilt trips laid on me.
More freedom to do what seems right rather than what some imaginary friend tells me to do. (Isaac, you know what I mean.)

Dinwar · 2nd February 2013, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by deaman

I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s).

Thank you.

None. It's an irrelevancy. The only marginal impact it ever had was on morality, but I've always insisted that my moral code make sense to me, so any deity was outside of the picture anyway, even when I was religious.

Akri · 2nd February 2013, 01:47 PM

I don't think I ever truly believed, but I did try very hard for awhile. Looking back, I had a much harder time dealing with depression whenever I tried to believe. My thinking was that if there was a loving God, and he was letting me suffer, did that mean I had done something to deserve it? When I finally stopped trying to believe I was able to start dealing with my depression as a mental illness and not some kind of divine judgement.

Oh, not having to get up early on Sundays is a nice benefit as well. Same with not having any guilt over what goes on in the bedroom.

JoeBentley · 2nd February 2013, 02:09 PM

What personal benefits have you found in either believing, or not believing in a god?

Well you see that's sorta the problem. The accuracy of a statement about how the universe works isn't effect by personal benefit.

Whether or not my life would be better if I held the opinion that God existed isn't the point. I didn't sit down and weigh the pros and cons of believing in God, I sat down and weighted the pros and cons of evidence for God. Even if I accepted that my life would be better (that is it would have as you say "benefits") if I believed in God, that wouldn't change my opinion as the validity of his existence.

But to answer your question as best I can, FTR I have always been an atheist and there was no point at which I could intellectually form an opinion on the matter that I ever really seriously entertained the notion that God exists, .... er it has its ups and downs. It gives a sense of personal freedom and intellectual responsibility that I enjoy. It makes me value my own life and the life of others more knowing that this life isn't a test run for some afterlife. I get to sleep in on Sundays and can eat bacon.

I'm not totally lacking in some respects for some sense of admiration for certain aspects of religion. I can respect the emotional value in ceremonies to mark significant events in our lives, I think even a totally secular world would retain some... ceremonial aspects for birth and death and falling in love and reaching adult hood. Remove the superstitious nonsense and I wouldn't be totally adverse to just gathering with friends and neighbors once a week in a special place and just reflecting on what we have, where we've been, and where we are going. And while I personally don't really like overt symbolism, I do "get" it.

It's really just the "Believe things without sufficient evidence or believe things which are provably untrue" part that I never got along with.

RandFan · 2nd February 2013, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

What personal benefits have you found in either believing, or not believing in a god?

Well you see that's sorta the problem. The accuracy of a statement about how the universe works isn't effect by personal benefit.

I think your point needs to be made. Even if we were to assume that a belief in god made a person happier it would not change the truth value of the belief.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality." -- George Bernard Shaw

Dinwar · 2nd February 2013, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

I think your point needs to be made.

While I agree with JoeBentley, I have to disagree that the point needs to be made here. We all need to be aware of it, yes, but it's sometimes interesting to ask questions like the OP did, to explore our own motives and our own views. WHY we answer the way we do is the important part of such exercises. It's kinda like an inkblot test we can give ourselves. I got the impression that the OP was well aware of the fact that personal benefit doesn't influence reality (though I could be wrong; I don't know deaman that well).

JoeBentley · 2nd February 2013, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

While I agree with JoeBentley, I have to disagree that the point needs to be made here. We all need to be aware of it, yes, but it's sometimes interesting to ask questions like the OP did, to explore our own motives and our own views. WHY we answer the way we do is the important part of such exercises. It's kinda like an inkblot test we can give ourselves. I got the impression that the OP was well aware of the fact that personal benefit doesn't influence reality (though I could be wrong; I don't know deaman that well).

And to be fair I did honestly try to answer his question to the best of my ability. My opening statement was as much for context of my response as to make a counter point.

RandFan · 2nd February 2013, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

While I agree with JoeBentley, I have to disagree that the point needs to be made here. We all need to be aware of it, yes, but it's sometimes interesting to ask questions like the OP did, to explore our own motives and our own views. WHY we answer the way we do is the important part of such exercises. It's kinda like an inkblot test we can give ourselves. I got the impression that the OP was well aware of the fact that personal benefit doesn't influence reality (though I could be wrong; I don't know deaman that well).

We can disagree.

Dinwar · 2nd February 2013, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

And to be fair I did honestly try to answer his question to the best of my ability. My opening statement was as much for context of my response as to make a counter point.

I didn't mean to imply that your post was without merit. Like you said, you answered the OP--it's just that you also raised an interesting side-issue as to the value of these discussions.

Originally Posted by RandFan

We can disagree.

True, but there's little value to it. I knew we disagreed when I gave my reasons for disagreeing with you.

RandFan · 3rd February 2013, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

True, but there's little value to it. I knew we disagreed when I gave my reasons for disagreeing with you.

The value is that reasonable people can disagree when there is an impasse as opposed to debating for page after page making the same arguments in different ways. I don't know about you but I find value in that.

Dog Breakfast · 3rd February 2013, 08:27 PM

1. Dead people can't watch me shower.

2. Monsters from another dimension won't torture me after I die.

3. A powerful otherwordly being isn't planning to kill me one day.

OR IS IT!!!!!

30th January 2013, 11:52 AM	#1
deaman Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,729	What personal benefits have you found in either believing, or not believing in a god? I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s). Thank you.
deaman Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,729

30th January 2013, 12:14 PM	#2
Empress Abandoned All Hope Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Blandings Castle Posts: 1,554	The freedom to see that the universe is an extraordinary, exciting place where gods are superfluous, and to grasp how lucky I am to have been born and be able to enjoy the earth for the short amount of time I have allotted. Also, the freedom not to feel ashamed every time a random thought scutters across my brain, that I was once brainwashed to believe was sinful thoughtcrime.
	__________________ www.stopsylvia.com

30th January 2013, 12:36 PM	#3
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,320	Benefits of belief: As a believer I was part of a community that benefited me in many ways. When I decided to leave Mormonism I mourned for the loss of that community. I also found comfort in prayer and divine justice. Originally Posted by Mathew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. That was a great source of comfort for me. Benefits of disbelief: As a believer I suffered significant dissonance. I was often troubled by the things I believed in. IMO: To believe is to be a slave to the belief. And I think there is very good robust body of evidence from different scientific fields in support for that. I realize that you are simply seeking an opinion so I'll not bore anyone with the details. If anyone would like more on that PM me or start a thread. Bottom line, I'm free from external forces. I do not suffer guilt from doing things my religion deemed sinful but harmed no one. I do not suffer from cognitive dissonance. It's a trade off but one that is IMO worth it. Truth is it's own reward --Plato.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith Last edited by RandFan; 30th January 2013 at 01:12 PM.

30th January 2013, 12:59 PM	#4
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,965	I actually find life much more meaningful and beautiful aesthetic wise, and I found my sense of decency and morality amplified and justified and enriched by humanism for the sake of benevolence rather than for the sake of an alpha authority figure who punishes you based on what you perceive to be real or not real or based on what this figure deems is reality or not reality. There was a time when I was terrified in some way to consider the religion of my upbringing was not real, it was just not an option to mentally explore, and knowing this I realize how futile it is to discuss the issue with many a theist. But I also know there are many people who are close to exploring the possibility they are believing something without any intellectually honest of compelling reason beyond cultural tradition or psychological comfort, so it's important to let them know people with my views exist and that they are not wrong or alone to consider the situation from a different point of view. I still am not comfortable with the finality of death. There is so much I want to see and know.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,965

30th January 2013, 03:46 PM	#5
Jim_MDP Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 2,565	I find I have a lot more free time on Sundays.
	__________________ ---------------------- "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

30th January 2013, 04:03 PM	#6
sgtbaker Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 5,551	Benefit of belief: When bad things happened to me, I told myself that I was chosen for some reason. Benefits of nonbelief: When bad things happen to me, I don't take it personal. I see a stronger connection between cause and effect and often find myself in awe at how chains of events can be set in motion years and years before it reaches me. I don't really see a distinct divide between "good and bad" people anymore.
sgtbaker Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 5,551

30th January 2013, 04:27 PM	#7
John Jones Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,719	Originally Posted by Jim_MDP I find I have a lot more free time on Sundays. That's me.
John Jones Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,719

30th January 2013, 04:34 PM	#8
kellyb Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Tennessee. Ain't you jealous? Posts: 4,416	Benefits of belief: Being able to think that I was being taken care of by an omnipotent force, believing that I'd see deceased loved ones again, divine justice, feeling like I had a purpose "better/more meaningful" than what I can create for myself, community Benefits of atheism: no cognitive dissonance, periodic empowerment with the idea of creating my own meaning, more sympathy for others and ability to forgive, not having to worry about loved ones roasting in hell, understanding that s*** happens and not constantly worrying that god was punishing me/"teaching me a lesson" about something
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell

30th January 2013, 04:35 PM	#9
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,029	Non-belief gives me the freedom to trust my own intellect.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,029

30th January 2013, 05:22 PM	#10
Seismosaurus Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Banbury Posts: 3,547	I'm free of a lot of rules and expectations. Some are trivial - I get to relax on Sunday instead of going to Church. Some are more important - I get to judge things on what I see as their own merits, rather than what my religion requires me to believe. For example, I have no problem with homosexuality since I don't have any holy book telling me that the creator of the universe thinks it is an abomination. That's probably made a few friendships easier. Nor do I have to feel guilty about things I do myself that are "sinful" - if I want to look at a beautiful woman lustfully or whatever, I'm free to do it and not feel bad about it. And that kind of links into some of the deeper things, the way I feel about myself and the world. I don't see myself as this inherently flawed, fallen, corrupt being that deserves the most horrific punishment imaginable. I don't have to walk through life fearing that that could happen because I have an unacceptable attitude about the most trivial of things. And I get to look out at the universe and marvel at how amazing it all is. I always thought that the truth about the universe that we've uncovered are so much bigger and more majestic than any book of human fables. If I found that christianity or some other religion were true, I'd be crushed because in the end they are so small compared to the reality.
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul Last edited by Seismosaurus; 30th January 2013 at 05:27 PM.

30th January 2013, 06:14 PM	#11
Giraffe107 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,339	I don't know how to answer the question- I have been an atheist since I was a child, so I have no adult reference for what belief is like. I suppose, non-belief allows me to be myself.
	__________________ Love is a snowmobile racing across the icy tundra that suddenly flips over, trapping you beneath. At night the ice weasels come. - Matt Groening

30th January 2013, 06:56 PM	#12
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 11,191	I grew up in a Christian tradition and considered myself a believer of a sort for some time, largely by simply deferring problems with belief, figuring some day maybe ideas that made no sense would sort themselves out. So I'd say my main benefit as a nonbeliever is that I can relax.
	__________________ "Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding.(Samuel Johnson) The gods are less for their love of praise....(Wendell Berry)

30th January 2013, 09:34 PM	#13
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	The same benefits that I've gained from believing the sky is blue, gravity sucks, and that dogs bark.
	__________________ May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. - John Muir

30th January 2013, 11:25 PM	#14
Astreja Springy Goddess Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 973	When I switched from agnostic theist to agnostic atheist a few years ago, it was because I realized that I could not in good conscience testify "Yes, the gods are real" in a court of law. The initial phase was one of adjustment, a bit of loneliness and a bit of guilt at having delayed that growing-up, as I relegated the interlocutors of My thoughts to the status of imaginary friends. As I settled into the new groove, though, it came as a relief. I felt that I was coming from a more honest place than previously. And if ever I should stumble upon serious evidence for god-like entities, I can hopefully examine the evidence with a bit more objectivity.
	__________________ Reality is a theory, not a hypothesis.

30th January 2013, 11:48 PM	#15
Kid Eager Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 3,514	sleeping in on Sundays
	__________________ What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....

31st January 2013, 12:00 AM	#16
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643	I've been an atheist since I was so young that I really only experience the annoyance of people's questions really. as someone said on here one time, being an theist is like not being a stamp collector. I don't really know what the benefits of not collecting stamps are... other than I don't have books of stamps lying around.
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643

31st January 2013, 04:26 AM	#17
Baffled Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Transcona Posts: 314	I remember church being all about confusion and keeping my mouth shut. It was wrong to ask questions. It was even more wrong to not understand in the first place. For me, freedom from religion allowed my thoughts to blossom into the joy of exploration and wonder. But it took time; I had to unlearn the fear of asking "why" and "how". School was little help -- it merely replaced the authority of the Church with the authority of the Teacher. Asking questions was encouraged, but not understanding in the first place was still punishable. I had to graduate from both before I could take charge of what I wanted to ask without fear of punishment.
	__________________ Wants to be a saint rather than a knight.

31st January 2013, 04:36 AM	#18
Recovering Agnostic Back Pew Heckler Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 368	I'll be honest, there were a lot of things that were really positive about believing. I was a part of a big ready-made community of like-minded people - I didn't realise how much I was going to miss that, and popping along to a carol service for the tradition of it was very bittersweet. I also took a lot of comfort in the belief that there was a plan and a reason for everything, that someone was in control, and above all that I was loved. And the occasional "spiritual experiences" (sometimes more frequent and deeper than others) were very positive, to the point of being addictive. Since I gave it up, I suppose the only thing I've really got in exchange for all that is a huge reduction in cognitive dissonance and the indescribable liberation of being able to think freely and reach conclusions without having to constantly pass my thoughts through a sort of internal censor. For the first time in my life, I can genuinely follow where the evidence leads me, rather than following a little way, glancing nervously at the map, and deciding that I don't like the look of the territory up ahead so I'd better turn round to be safe. I think that's a good exchange, but even if it wasn't, I wouldn't regret deconverting. I'd rather live in grim reality than blissful delusion, so to be consistent, I must honestly assess the evidence. It's to my shame that it took me so long to do it. If there is a God, there should be enough evidence to convince me of that fact, or at least to leave me open to the possibility. If that evidence is lacking, it would be dishonest to myself and others to carry on as if it were true, however much I might want it to be.
	__________________ My glorified brain dump, ranting space and navel fluff collection The art and science of asking questions is the source of all knowledge - Thomas Berger

31st January 2013, 04:38 AM	#19
MikeG Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 1,557	Originally Posted by StankApe I've been an atheist since I was so young that I really only experience the annoyance of people's questions really. as someone said on here one time, being an theist is like not being a stamp collector. I don't really know what the benefits of not collecting stamps are... other than I don't have books of stamps lying around. Exactly. - There is a sort of assumption implicit in the thread title and the OP that this is a cost-benefit analysis, or a weighing up of the factors. However, we're not talking about buying this washing machine as opposed to that washing machine here. This isn't a subject in which the personal ramifications either way can be weighed in the balance. "If I carry on deluding myself I'll at least get invited to the vicar's tea party every spring"....isn't the sort of conversation the sane have with themselves. Mike

31st January 2013, 05:15 AM	#20
fagin Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 902	I can rape and pillage without fear of going to hell.
fagin Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 902	__________________ Reverend of the Universal Life Church

31st January 2013, 06:01 AM	#21
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,779	Originally Posted by fagin I can rape and pillage without fear of going to hell. And there's the baby bar-b-ques. A keg of beer, some babies on the barbie then an orgy of sex with everything within range animate or not. After that Solemn High Mass seems a bit tame.

31st January 2013, 06:09 AM	#22
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,532	I have a hard time thinking of any great benefit I ever got from Catholicism. The incense stunk, the host stuck to the roof of my mouth, and I always felt guilty after wanking and having "impure thoughts". The music was pretty bad, and usually in Latin. Now, I don't have to avoid eating or not eating things, my Sundays are free, and I can wank to my heart's content without guilt or fear.

31st January 2013, 09:14 AM	#23
deaman Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,729	Originally Posted by Bikewer I have a hard time thinking of any great benefit I ever got from Catholicism. The incense stunk, the host stuck to the roof of my mouth, and I always felt guilty after wanking and having "impure thoughts". The music was pretty bad, and usually in Latin. Now, I don't have to avoid eating or not eating things, my Sundays are free, and I can wank to my heart's content without guilt or fear. 100 points for complete honesty!
deaman Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,729

1st February 2013, 09:51 AM	#24
Steve Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2005 Location: Surrey BC Posts: 1,335	Originally Posted by Bikewer I have a hard time thinking of any great benefit I ever got from Catholicism. The incense stunk, the host stuck to the roof of my mouth, and I always felt guilty after wanking and having "impure thoughts". The music was pretty bad, and usually in Latin. Now, I don't have to avoid eating or not eating things, my Sundays are free, and I can wank to my heart's content without guilt or fear. I would disagree (unless you are referring to hymns sung in church ). I have a fondness for western classical music, and much classical music, both voice and instrumental, is based on the Christian (including catholic) religion. I think it is generally pretty good. This, and some darn good paintings and sculpture, were the only real benefits to come from Christianity.
	__________________ Formerly known as dogguy. Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

1st February 2013, 10:04 AM	#25
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Originally Posted by deaman I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s). Thank you. During my childhood I suffered various ailments which included asthma, spinal schliosis and a nervous disorder. Prayer didn't help and I got tired of being told it didn't work because I had no faith. How do you get faith? At age 12 or perhaps even earlier I came to the conclusion that there was no god. I quit praying because it was a waste of time. The only benefit of atheism in this situation is that instead of having faith in some invisible uncaring man up in the sky I had faith in modern medicine. I also no longer fear Hell or wonder what Heaven would be like.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

1st February 2013, 10:25 AM	#26
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,532	Originally Posted by Steve I would disagree (unless you are referring to hymns sung in church ). I have a fondness for western classical music, and much classical music, both voice and instrumental, is based on the Christian (including catholic) religion. I think it is generally pretty good. This, and some darn good paintings and sculpture, were the only real benefits to come from Christianity. Oh, I agree... It was OUR music that was bad. We had a choir director for many years who was a somewhat eccentric German guy who would tend to get a bit bombastic on the organ, while at the same time the official choir tried hard but had more than a few clinkers in the group. As well, back in the 50s when I was in elementary school, they used to hustle us over to the church to sing funeral masses. In Latin. To the weeping mourners..... Lemme tell ya... "Dies Irae" is not a fun tune to render if you're 12.... There's nothing better than Bach's "Tocatta and Fugue" rendered on a really big church organ....

1st February 2013, 07:38 PM	#27
Irony Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 872	Well, for starters as a benefit of disbelief I am no longer expected to hate those who don't follow the "morality" of my old sect (Southern Baptist, so that's quite a lot of people). Also, I no longer have the shackle of guilt hanging over me for doing the "sinful" sorts of things that two willing adults are sometimes inclined to do together, and that harms no one (In case you don't follow, I'm talking about dancing). Also, no more cognative dissonnence over trying to reconcile a 4 billion year old Earth and the Bible, and the free Sunday thing is a nice plus. what did you think I was talking about?
Irony Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 872

1st February 2013, 08:13 PM	#28
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,557	Being an atheist, I only have to worry about dying. If I were a believer, I would have to worry about both dying and going to hell. Or heaven. Nor am I fond of the idea of a supernatural Peeping Tom hanging over me, reading my mind and watching my every move. A supernatural being who would do that in order to build up a dossier on little old me is not right in the head, IMO, and could not be trusted in the least. The ones condemned to hell might turn out to be the lucky ones. Of course there are a couple of other dieties in which one might become enthralled. But if I were a believer, I would almost certainly be of the local variety.
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,557	__________________ SEARCH NOW THE SPHERES PROBE THE UNIVERSE SEND BACK WORD WHAT FORCE SO IRRESISTIBLE AS THE WILL OF FREE MEN Last edited by Toontown; 1st February 2013 at 08:16 PM.

1st February 2013, 08:38 PM	#29
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,609	Originally Posted by deaman I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s). Thank you. It doesn't matter. I can't believe what the evidence doesn't support, with the exception I believe I may win the lottery some day.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

2nd February 2013, 09:02 AM	#30
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,505	Sunday mornings free. Fewer hypocrites met. Less guilt trips laid on me. More freedom to do what seems right rather than what some imaginary friend tells me to do. (Isaac, you know what I mean.)
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

2nd February 2013, 01:27 PM	#31
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,960	Originally Posted by deaman I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s). Thank you. None. It's an irrelevancy. The only marginal impact it ever had was on morality, but I've always insisted that my moral code make sense to me, so any deity was outside of the picture anyway, even when I was religious.
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,960	__________________ GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. Ein krieg ohne feinde.

2nd February 2013, 01:47 PM	#32
Akri Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 466	I don't think I ever truly believed, but I did try very hard for awhile. Looking back, I had a much harder time dealing with depression whenever I tried to believe. My thinking was that if there was a loving God, and he was letting me suffer, did that mean I had done something to deserve it? When I finally stopped trying to believe I was able to start dealing with my depression as a mental illness and not some kind of divine judgement. Oh, not having to get up early on Sundays is a nice benefit as well. Same with not having any guilt over what goes on in the bedroom.
Akri Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 466

2nd February 2013, 02:09 PM	#33
JoeBentley Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 1,766	What personal benefits have you found in either believing, or not believing in a god? Well you see that's sorta the problem. The accuracy of a statement about how the universe works isn't effect by personal benefit. Whether or not my life would be better if I held the opinion that God existed isn't the point. I didn't sit down and weigh the pros and cons of believing in God, I sat down and weighted the pros and cons of evidence for God. Even if I accepted that my life would be better (that is it would have as you say "benefits") if I believed in God, that wouldn't change my opinion as the validity of his existence. But to answer your question as best I can, FTR I have always been an atheist and there was no point at which I could intellectually form an opinion on the matter that I ever really seriously entertained the notion that God exists, .... er it has its ups and downs. It gives a sense of personal freedom and intellectual responsibility that I enjoy. It makes me value my own life and the life of others more knowing that this life isn't a test run for some afterlife. I get to sleep in on Sundays and can eat bacon. I'm not totally lacking in some respects for some sense of admiration for certain aspects of religion. I can respect the emotional value in ceremonies to mark significant events in our lives, I think even a totally secular world would retain some... ceremonial aspects for birth and death and falling in love and reaching adult hood. Remove the superstitious nonsense and I wouldn't be totally adverse to just gathering with friends and neighbors once a week in a special place and just reflecting on what we have, where we've been, and where we are going. And while I personally don't really like overt symbolism, I do "get" it. It's really just the "Believe things without sufficient evidence or believe things which are provably untrue" part that I never got along with.
	__________________ - Opinions require evidence and no before you ask defining something as "Something doesn't require evidence" doesn't count. - In extreme cases continuing to be wrong when you've been repeatedly proven to be wrong is a form of rudeness. - Major in philosophy. That way you can also ask people "why" they would like fries would that. Last edited by JoeBentley; 2nd February 2013 at 02:12 PM.

2nd February 2013, 06:35 PM	#34
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,320	Originally Posted by JoeBentley What personal benefits have you found in either believing, or not believing in a god? Well you see that's sorta the problem. The accuracy of a statement about how the universe works isn't effect by personal benefit. I think your point needs to be made. Even if we were to assume that a belief in god made a person happier it would not change the truth value of the belief. "The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality." -- George Bernard Shaw
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

2nd February 2013, 06:47 PM	#35
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,960	Originally Posted by RandFan I think your point needs to be made. While I agree with JoeBentley, I have to disagree that the point needs to be made here. We all need to be aware of it, yes, but it's sometimes interesting to ask questions like the OP did, to explore our own motives and our own views. WHY we answer the way we do is the important part of such exercises. It's kinda like an inkblot test we can give ourselves. I got the impression that the OP was well aware of the fact that personal benefit doesn't influence reality (though I could be wrong; I don't know deaman that well).
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,960	__________________ GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. Ein krieg ohne feinde.