Burning Man 2013 (It's never too early to start planning)

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I tried to get the JREF to fund putting the logo on the dust masks I handed out, but they weren't interested.

I'm not sure dust mask is the best place. If they were worn outside the context of Burning Man, it might give people the impression that JREF was paranoid about germs.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I'm not sure dust mask is the best place. If they were worn outside the context of Burning Man, it might give people the impression that JREF was paranoid about germs.

If you wore the mask at Burning Man, it'd be too dirty to see the logo when you got it home.

BTW, painters and other construction workers wear dust masks all the time, it's not just germs such masks are associate with.

[Dicon]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I wonder if it pays to organize a SkeptiCamp type of thing at Burning Man. Maybe call it: SkeptiCamp Black Rock or SkeptiCamp Playa, or something. Would there be enough interest, does anyone think?

There might be a BarCamp at Burning Man, as there were in some previous years.

There's already a very loose-knit group called the Skeptical Bastards, you might want to seek them out.

[Checkmite]

Burning Man could do with some skepticism, I think. Lots of newage there as I understand it.

I believe one particular year there was even a Truther art demonstration, in which they attempted to get thermite to burn sideways through a vertical steel beam. Unsurprisingly once lit, the thermite just fell off - repeatedly, through a number of attempts. They then turned the beam horizontally and set a whole bunch of thermite on fire atop it; I'm not sure if it worked or not but in any case the demonstration was naturally pronounced a success.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Burning Man could do with some skepticism, I think. Lots of newage there as I understand it.

I believe one particular year there was even a Truther art demonstration, in which they attempted to get thermite to burn sideways through a vertical steel beam. Unsurprisingly once lit, the thermite just fell off - repeatedly, through a number of attempts. They then turned the beam horizontally and set a whole bunch of thermite on fire atop it; I'm not sure if it worked or not but in any case the demonstration was naturally pronounced a success.

I don't think you can say that because people in a crowd believe X the crowd believes X. Are you suggesting the organizers should control such exhibits?

Burning Man is about art.

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Burning Man could do with some skepticism, I think. Lots of newage there as I understand it.

There's lots of newage everywhere! Lots of it at the Hudson River Revival Festival (a folk music and art festival in Westchester County, NY), lots of it at Dragon*Con, lots of it even at consumer electronics shows.

TAM is an island of reason surrounded by other events much more woo-heavy.

But, Burning Man is not entirely all that terrible:

Apparently, there's a very loose-knit group called the Skeptical Bastards, that I might want to seek out....

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I don't think you can say that because people in a crowd believe X the crowd believes X. Are you suggesting the organizers should control such exhibits?

Burning Man is about art.

No don't misunderstand; I did not mean to impugn the festival or its organizers. Everyone ostensibly has a voice at Burning Man and that's as it should be certainly.

I only mean to say that, there are a number of voices there praising woo, and it would be nice if there were more voices praising reason.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

No don't misunderstand; I did not mean to impugn the festival or its organizers. Everyone ostensibly has a voice at Burning Man and that's as it should be certainly.

I only mean to say that, there are a number of voices there praising woo, and it would be nice if there were more voices praising reason.

The year I went, the theme was Evolution. New Agey stuff wasn't necessarily dominating. I have a limited view of the event.

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

The year I went, the theme was Evolution.

Well, this year, the theme is Cargo Cults. The implication seems, to me, that they think they are worth glorifying. I don't get the sense that they are using the theme as a jumping point for skeptically analyzing how beliefs form.

So, that doesn't help the woo situation very much.

But, I suppose I could help do something about that. Perhaps buy some copies of books about cargo cults to give out. (I recall one of Michael Shermer's books went into it, but I don't rememeber which one.) Among other things.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Cargo Cults suggests science to me. We know how they formed and that the beliefs were explicable without relying on a real encounter with a supernatural being. They explain god myths and provide natural evidence of how said myths develop.

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Cargo Cults suggests science to me.

Not the way the topic is being treated, so far. Promotional material, so far, seems to be glorifying the idea that we can believe such things, and to embrace that... rather than being an investigative measure for looking into how we can believe such things, and what we can learn from that.

But, perhaps I am being a tad presumptuous. People are free to interpret the theme any way they want. Maybe the actual attitude will be different while the actual event is going on.


Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out how to decorate my bike. I think "wooden airplane" is going to be too... generic. I need a skeptical/science-minded angle.

(It happens that Michael Shermer is a cyclist, who wrote a bit about cargo cults. I wonder if I can incorporate that, somehow.)

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Not the way the topic is being treated, so far. Promotional material, so far, seems to be glorifying the idea that we can believe such things, and to embrace that... rather than being an investigative measure for looking into how we can believe such things, and what we can learn from that.

I don't see how that's possible WB. Unless you think people believe real gods dropped cargo on those folks.

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out how to decorate my bike. I think "wooden airplane" is going to be too... generic. I need a skeptical/science-minded angle.....

Lights, and color.

[carlitos]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I suppose I can find a way to promote skepticism (and science!) to everyone, in an open, artsy manner, through something like this.

Just gotta find the right angle of funkiness, or something.

I was going to suggest you use thermite to unsuccessfully burn through steel beams under a sign labelled "Truth," but that seems to have already happened.

[Dicon]

Don't assign too much importance (or expectation) to the theme. Except for a few art projects scattered about, you'll be hard pressed to find any evidence of it.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally Posted by Dicon

Don't assign too much importance (or expectation) to the theme. Except for a few art projects scattered about, you'll be hard pressed to find any evidence of it.

Sort of like when TAM used to do themes.

[Dicon]

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Sort of like when TAM used to do themes.

At least you would see moderate evidence of the TAM theme in the t-shirts wandering the hallways.

[NiceGuyCody]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I suppose I can find a way to promote skepticism (and science!) to everyone, in an open, artsy manner, through something like this.

And in turn you can expect to have a lot of science-hating hippies getting in your face and accusing you of regurgitating "TEH CORPRATE PROPERGANDERZ!11" for trying to feed them information that doesn't mesh with their sollipsistic philosophies and pseudo-religious belief systems. Try to act surprised.

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by Dicon

Don't assign too much importance (or expectation) to the theme. Except for a few art projects scattered about, you'll be hard pressed to find any evidence of it.

I guess the theme is actually more like the "bird of a feather" topic cards they had on the tables last TAM. If you had nothing else to talk about with your lunch neighbors, you could see the word written on the card, and talk about that.

The theme for Burning Man is there, for those who can't think about what sorta theme their own art should have applied to it, I guess.

Does that sound about right?

Originally Posted by NiceGuyCody

And in turn you can expect to have a lot of science-hating hippies getting in your face and accusing you of regurgitating "TEH CORPRATE PROPERGANDERZ!11" for trying to feed them information that doesn't mesh with their sollipsistic philosophies and pseudo-religious belief systems.

Cool! I tend to enjoy arguing with folks like that, for some reason.

Originally Posted by NiceGuyCody

Try to act surprised.

I usually get better results when I act like I can see everything coming. Although, sometimes, I do "play dumb" to make a point, depending on the context of the discussion.

[Dicon]

To be honest, I could never figure out what practical purpose the theme has served. They announce it in the fall for the next year's event, Larry Harvey writes thousands of words about it (which can actually be rather interesting), people all over the world go "Oooh! They announced the theme for this year!", artwork is created for tickets and posters, and tens of thousands of attendees... go about doing whatever they were planning to do before they even heard about the theme.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad or worthless thing, but I never saw it realized in any meaningful manner on the playa. It would be fun experiment to leave your camp pretending that you had no idea what the theme is and then see if you can figure it out as you walk around (without, of course, asking anyone).

Actually, it would be rather entertaining to ask random people what the theme was and record their responses. A fair percentage would answer "Parrrrrr-tayyyy!!"

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally Posted by Dicon

To be honest, I could never figure out what practical purpose the theme has served. They announce it in the fall for the next year's event, Larry Harvey writes thousands of words about it (which can actually be rather interesting), people all over the world go "Oooh! They announced the theme for this year!", artwork is created for tickets and posters, and tens of thousands of attendees... go about doing whatever they were planning to do before they even heard about the theme.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad or worthless thing, but I never saw it realized in any meaningful manner on the playa. It would be fun experiment to leave your camp pretending that you had no idea what the theme is and then see if you can figure it out as you walk around (without, of course, asking anyone).

Actually, it would be rather entertaining to ask random people what the theme was and record their responses. A fair percentage would answer "Parrrrrr-tayyyy!!"

Sort of like the topic cards at TAM.

I never sat at a table that actually used them. Most tables didn't even know what they were for. Part of being an adult is being able to start a conversation without being prompted.

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Sort of like the topic cards at TAM.

I never sat at a table that actually used them. Most tables didn't even know what they were for. Part of being an adult is being able to start a conversation without being prompted.

It was a nice social experiment, though. And a cheap one, too.

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by Dicon

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad or worthless thing, but I never saw it realized in any meaningful manner on the playa.

I figured the theme wasn't really enforced. But, I was trying to figure out how to "work with it", anyway, in some manner.

Given that I don't even like the theme, maybe I'll just ignore it, like almost everyone one else, anyway.

Maybe when I return in 2 or 3 years*, the theme will be a better one, that I can really get into.**

(* I am very likely going back to Dragon*Con for 2014, even if I loved BM.)

(** Please let it be "Hitchhiking Across the Galaxy"! Please!!)

Originally Posted by Dicon

Actually, it would be rather entertaining to ask random people what the theme was and record their responses. A fair percentage would answer "Parrrrrr-tayyyy!!"

...and Burrrrrrniiiiiiing stuuuufff!!! Wooooo!!!!

[Wowbagger]

So, a friend of mine was originally going to take a road trip in a van, from NY all the way to Burning Man, over the course of a week or so. But, he doesn't feel like doing that, anymore.

Now the current plan is for both of us to fly to Reno (or somewhere in the vicinity) a day or two before, and rent a camper. We'll reserve one in advance.

I figure there are some things we can pick up while in that area, such as water. (It doesn't make sense to bring all those gallons of water on the plane over.)

Any other recommendations for things we don't need to pack on the plane, but could buy once we're in Reno?


And another question: Although Burning Man is meant to be a gift-based economy, there might be a secret, underground cash economy that emerges within the depths of the event, as well. Anyone know anything about that?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Any other recommendations for things we don't need to pack on the plane, but could buy once we're in Reno?

Everything. I'm pretty sure Reno has stores.

[Wowbagger]

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Everything. I'm pretty sure Reno has stores.

I suppose so. But, I'd like to know, from experience, if anyone knows things that are particularly good to pick up later, rather than sooner.

I know there are some things I'll be getting sooner: A camera that takes good photos in dark conditions, a smaller and lighter tablet-like PC thingy, bike refurbishing with decorations and spare parts.

And, there are some things I'll be getting later: All that water. Maybe some food items.

But, there are some things that could go either way.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I suppose so. But, I'd like to know, from experience, if anyone knows things that are particularly good to pick up later, rather than sooner.

I know there are some things I'll be getting sooner: A camera that takes good photos in dark conditions, a smaller and lighter tablet-like PC thingy, bike refurbishing with decorations and spare parts.

And, there are some things I'll be getting later: All that water. Maybe some food items.

But, there are some things that could go either way.

Make a list so your buying in Reno is well planned. Bring the fun stuff like costumes that light up.

I wouldn't be as worried about the gift based economy as you are. You spend a few bucks a day on iced coffees and people buy ice blocks. Some people advertise events, like a pancake feed. If you don't get there when they start, they run out anyway. Some people pass out drinks until their small supply is gone. I'm not saying people aren't friendly and all community oriented, but don't expect to find a commune.

The biggest expense people spend on each other is on the incredible pieces of art they build to share and all the fire and explosions that are part of the art. The show must cost a ton. You don't need to give anything in exchange, just ooos and ahhhhs.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think I said it already but the things I was most glad we had were the camping potty (didn't have to go find an outhouse at night), shade and sunhats, and the usual campground stuff. Everything else was superfluous.