Joe Arpaio and Steven Seagal train criminals to guard AZ schools - Page 4

monty1 · 17th February 2013, 10:35 AM

Arpaio's doing what he said he would do and only one kid has been shot so far by one of his deputies.

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/17/sher...des_guadalupe/

Now the question is, how many school shootings has he prevented?

Nazz · 17th February 2013, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by monty1

see my post on the other thread that explains why school shooting are the high priority issue it is. It solidly refutes your notion that school shooting aren't a big threat.

For everyone who doesn't want to waste their time figuring out which thread is "the other thread" :

Originally Posted by monty1

You're not understanding that school shooting involve the death of children and so for that reason you are minimizing the importance. That's wrong! The whole issue is being belaboured now just 'because' it was children and it should be. It's your highest priority 'because' it was children.

Are you americans getting this?

The gungoons shooting each other and shooting innocent bystanders and shooting home owners, etc., etc., etc., is no big deal and can't be fixed anyway withoug banning all handguns off the streets and limiting them to shooting ranges with a permit to get it there and back. But that's not the issue. And can't be fixed anyway because your 2nd. amendment trumps it.

School shootings are the issue and they aren't a minimal issue as so many Americans are trying to say. All they are doing is screeching about their 'secund mundmun rits' in reality and putting that over the value of their children's lives.

Now are you americans getting it?

I can' help but notice that you didn't actually "soundly refute" their point as much as you just asserted that it was wrong.

Quote:

(such a repugnanat and careless comment from one claiming a degree!)

Where, exactly, does Travis claim that he has a degree? What does that have to do with anything?

monty1 · 17th February 2013, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Nazz

For everyone who doesn't want to waste their time figuring out which thread is "the other thread" :

I can' help but notice that you didn't actually "soundly refute" their point as much as you just asserted that it was wrong.

I did refute their point but I can go even a bit further. Our children are our future and how we care for them is an indication of our worth in society. The shooting of 20 children has brought the gun issue to the forefront for a very good reason. No doubt that the very large majority in your country now think something has to be done about your gun problem. If it was 20 black people who were shot by other blacks or whites on the street then it would have been glossed over and forgotten long ago. That's why it's of critical importance to decent people and why I say that if it's not important to some people then they are more concerned with their crazy 2nd. amendment or crazed with pure negativism when they express their priorities. Hate? Bigotry? What if not support for that crazy amendment?

[q1uote] Where, exactly, does Travis claim that he has a degree? What does that have to do with anything?[/quote]

Travi's supposed degree has nothing to do with the topic and we should just leave that alone.

thaiboxerken · 17th February 2013, 11:58 AM

Arpaio and Seagal....typical gun owner mentality.

Nazz · 17th February 2013, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

Our children are our future and how we care for them is an indication of our worth in society.

I agree that protecting those who can't reasonably be expected to defend themselves is a moral good, but I fail to see why this should be limited to children. Why should unarmed adults who have no more ability to protect themselves from gun violence than a child deserve less care or consideration?

Originally Posted by monty1

If it was 20 black people who were shot by other blacks or whites on the street then it would have been glossed over and forgotten long ago.

But it isn't just 20 adults who have been shot balanced against 20 children who are victims of school shootings, as you pointed out in your thread on
US gun deaths the number is in the thousands. If the number of adult victims with no reasonable means to defend themselves is larger than the number of child victims by several orders of magnitude, should that not be our first priority?

monty1 · 17th February 2013, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Nazz

I agree that protecting those who can't reasonably be expected to defend themselves is a moral good, but I fail to see why this should be limited to children. Why should unarmed adults who have no more ability to protect themselves from gun violence than a child deserve less care or consideration?

But it isn't just 20 adults who have been shot balanced against 20 children who are victims of school shootings, as you pointed out in your thread on
US gun deaths the number is in the thousands. If the number of adult victims with no reasonable means to defend themselves is larger than the number of child victims by several orders of magnitude, should that not be our first priority?

I'm with the roughly 320 million americans that feel that the priority is the 20 children. That has become the issue and that issue is school shootings. That's fact!

It's not what should be the issue, it's what is the issue and the 99% can't be wrong. If the people say that's the issue then you are wasting your time arguing about it.

But let's move on now. What should be the issue, if that's where you want to go, is the second amendment insanity. The reason it is that is because the handgun problem can't be dealt with until that is changed. Or can it? Answer that please.

So the number of handguns are statistically what the issue is. It's specifically why Canada and other sane nations don't have your problem. And so we go around in another circle, around and around in ever decreasing circles until we all disappear up our own .............. you get the picture.

Nazz · 17th February 2013, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

I'm with the roughly 320 million americans that feel that the priority is the 20 children. That has become the issue and that issue is school shootings. That's fact!

It's not what should be the issue, it's what is the issue and the 99% can't be wrong. If the people say that's the issue then you are wasting your time arguing about it.

But let's move on now. What should be the issue, if that's where you want to go, is the second amendment insanity. The reason it is that is because the handgun problem can't be dealt with until that is changed. Or can it? Answer that please.

So the number of handguns are statistically what the issue is. It's specifically why Canada and other sane nations don't have your problem. And so we go around in another circle, around and around in ever decreasing circles until we all disappear up our own .............. you get the picture.

I didn't mean to start the same discussion of that thread in a second thread, just to provide context to your reference of it. We should probably keep it in the original thread to avoid having the same argument in two threads.

triforcharity · 17th February 2013, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

(see my post on the other thread that explains why school shooting are the high priority issue it is. It solidly refutes your notion that school shooting aren't a big threat.) (such a repugnanat and careless comment from one claiming a degree!)

Well, considering there are, in the US about 250,000 schools (including colleges, but not private colleges) school shootings ARE rare.

BTW, the hilited is irrelevant, and possibly against the MA.

triforcharity · 17th February 2013, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Arpaio and Seagal....typical gun owner mentality.

Hahahahahaha......

Prove it!

You can't, and won't.

Minoosh · 17th February 2013, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

Travi's supposed degree has nothing to do with the topic and we should just leave that alone.

But ... aren't you the one who brought it up?

Uh, on the other hand ... never mind.

Travis · 17th February 2013, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by triforcharity

BTW, the hilited is irrelevant, and possibly against the MA.

Originally Posted by Minoosh

But ... aren't you the one who brought it up?

Uh, on the other hand ... never mind.

I honestly don't know what he is talking about. I've never brought up a degree in any of my discussions.

I think he might be confusing me with someone else. I'm pretty sure I know who but I won't name them as I find this all rather amusing.

Eddie Dane · 18th February 2013, 01:04 AM

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have convicted school shooters guard the schools from paedophiles, instead of the other way around?

Just thinking out of the box here.

Eddie Dane · 18th February 2013, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

Way back when Seagal first hit the scene, his "people" released the information that he had trained in Aikido directly under founder Morihei Ueshiba.
The Aikido foundation issued a terse reply..."No he didn't."

I think that back in eighties, you could get away with this kind of PR.

Movie magazines will just repeat the press release, serious papers don't do in-depth articles about action stars. The only ones interested in this would be martial arts press, and that is a very small niche.

Now, you put out a press release like that, the first comment under the article will link to bullshido.com debunking all the BS.

Seagal (or his management) apparently put out a lot BS information back then. And teenagers ate it up.

-He was an enforcer for the mob
He did jobs and favours for the CIA
-He was on the Shah's bodyguard team
-He trained under Uesheba (sp)
-He's an expert in antique swords, doing taxations at auctions and museums.
-He's Italian (Jewish-Irish actually)

But keep in mind: He was very highly paid actor in the eighties.

He had the enormous luck that the public believed he was some kind of badass, and he lucked into his first film (Above the Law) being a pretty good gritty action thriller.
He starred opposite Tommy Lee Jones in a big-budget acktion flick.

So that stream of lies paid off big, for a while.

Ladewig · 18th February 2013, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Eddie Dane

He did jobs and favours for the CIA

As whoppers go, this one is always a winner. If you are asked for details, you can claim that it is too classified to reveal. Plus the CIA is forbidden from answering questions about who has and hasn't worked for the Agency.

Prometheus · 18th February 2013, 10:39 AM

Was he ever a Navy SEAL? I remember that going around a lot, but I haven't heard it recently.

monty1 · 18th February 2013, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Travis

I honestly don't know what he is talking about. I've never brought up a degree in any of my discussions.

I think he might be confusing me with someone else. I'm pretty sure I know who but I won't name them as I find this all rather amusing.

It was you Travis and I'll remain convinced it was you until you name the person you think it was. I'm finding it amusing too!

Of course, if proven wrong then you would deserve an apology for mistaken identity.

Ladewig · 18th February 2013, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Was he ever a Navy SEAL? I remember that going around a lot, but I haven't heard it recently.

Are you confusing Seagal with Jesse Ventura? While he was never actually in the SEALS, Ventura underwent SEAL training and served in the Underwater Demolition Teams (which later was folded into the SEALS). Sticklers say the distinction is very important.

Prometheus · 19th February 2013, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

Are you confusing Seagal with Jesse Ventura? While he was never actually in the SEALS, Ventura underwent SEAL training and served in the Underwater Demolition Teams (which later was folded into the SEALS). Sticklers say the distinction is very important.

No, I've never paid any attention to Ventura. At least one former associate of Seagal's has claimed he used to say he'd been a SEAL, though. So I guess that was another one of his delusions for a while.

Eddie Dane · 19th February 2013, 01:11 AM

Didn't this sheriff allow Seagal to drive some kind of armed personnel carrier though the wall of a house, during a raid?

You know the police "protecting and serving" when they have some b-actor drive into your living room for a reality soap.

Are Sheriffs still elected in some way? If so the citizens are getting the police they deserve.

Checkmite · 19th February 2013, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Eddie Dane

Now, you put out a press release like that, the first comment under the article will link to bullshido.com debunking all the BS.

If you can find it.

I just browsed to bullshido.com for the first time in several years. It's funny; I seem to remember that it was once some sort of site whose primary purpose was to be skeptical of martial arts claims of awesome superpowered magical chi and so forth. But I can't tell now; it appears to have metamorphed into some typical martial arts fan site whose primary function seems to be movie reviews (of non-martial-arts movies), laughing at pictures of fat people, venerating Bruce Lee, and providing a place where blowhards can ineffectually challenge each other to fights and make fun of people who practice other flavors than them. Maybe I was just imagining the previous format of bullshido.com, or maybe I was looking at a different bullshido website, or maybe it was bought by somebody - I don't know; but I wouldn't link anybody to anything on that incoherent disaster of a website right now.

Multivac · 20th February 2013, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

And even if it were the answer, letting Joe Arpaio decide who is qualified to carry a gun into a school is sure as hell not the answer.

That's for damn sure!

Multivac · 20th February 2013, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by monty1

You're right, it's crazy and an indication that society has failed. But it's probably the only short term solution for the problem. It's being implemented in many schools in the US already and had been even before this latest big slaughter.

The gun control measures being talked about currently are all going to fall short of fixing the problem, supposing that the gungoon lobby and the right wing would ever let any of them pass into law.

The solution lies in changing the American mindset but nobody wants to even suggest that. It's too politically dangerous to go there perhaps?

I agree with the hilited, but have no idea how to achieve this.

tyr_13 · 20th February 2013, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Multivac

I agree with the hilited, but have no idea how to achieve this.

The obvious answer is to constantly berate and vilify Americans and especially those who disagree with you and create conspiracies giving the US far more power and importance than even Eaglelander True Patriots^TM give it.

Obviously wrong that is.

Nessie · 20th February 2013, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by triforcharity

Well, considering there are, in the US about 250,000 schools (including colleges, but not private colleges) school shootings ARE rare.

BTW, the hilited is irrelevant, and possibly against the MA.

I disagree, this list runs to hundreds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

So far in 2013 there have been eight with five dead and ten injured.

It is way bigger than the lists from elsewhere in the world, Europe has recorded 20 in total, which the USA manages every couple of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

What you pass off as rare would be horrifying anywhere else.

monty1 · 20th February 2013, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

I disagree, this list runs to hundreds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

So far in 2013 there have been eight with five dead and ten injured.

It is way bigger than the lists from elsewhere in the world, Europe has recorded 20 in total, which the USA manages every couple of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

What you pass off as rare would be horrifying anywhere else.

They just don't think it's worth doing anything about Nessie. Changing the American mindset of violence is what is needed but that doesn't seem possible at this time. Forcing them to be responsible gun owners by forcing them to carry liability insurane would be a great start.

Skeptic Ginger · 20th February 2013, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

Arpaio's doing what he said he would do and only one kid has been shot so far by one of his deputies.

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/17/sher...des_guadalupe/

Now the question is, how many school shootings has he prevented?

Sadly, disgustingly proves my point.

Quote:

In September, one of Arpaio’s deputies joined Tempe police in responding to an attempted burglary call – and shot and killed a teenage suspect. A deputy said he felt threatened and saw a knife; eyewitnesses in the neighborhood say he was putting his hands in the air to surrender when he was shot, and wonder why the deputy didn’t simply use a Taser.

Like I said, makes those school kids so much less safe it's only a matter of time.

Prometheus · 20th February 2013, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

They just don't think it's worth doing anything about Nessie. Changing the American mindset of violence is what is needed but that doesn't seem possible at this time. Forcing them to be responsible gun owners by forcing them to carry liability insurane would be a great start.

Of course that's exactly right. Why on Earth would we bother protecting our young from guns, when we're just gonna eat them once they're nicely fattened up anyway?

Travis · 20th February 2013, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

It was you Travis and I'll remain convinced it was you until you name the person you think it was. I'm finding it amusing too!

Of course, if proven wrong then you would deserve an apology for mistaken identity.

Not big on innocent until proven guilty are you.

And why should I help you? I find it all rather amusing.

monty1 · 20th February 2013, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Travis

Not big on innocent until proven guilty are you.

And why should I help you? I find it all rather amusing.

I have a perception that it was you. Simple at that and it doesn't need to be any more complicated. If you feel you want to proclaim your innocence then just do it. It's no more than would be expected from you by the police. And then, if you had inferred it wasn't you because you knew who it was then they would be asking you to name the guilty party.

Get on with it Travis, the onus is on you and I couldn't care less. The rubber meets the road Travis and it does with the racism question too!

JoeTheJuggler · 20th February 2013, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

Arpaio's doing what he said he would do and only one kid has been shot so far by one of his deputies.

Is this the necessary thing about Arpaio's plan?

monty1 · 20th February 2013, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Is this the necessary thing about Arpaio's plan?

Arpaio is an evil freak Joe but in general I have to say that his kind of plan is the solution in the short term. The primary objective is to stop the slaughter of children.

So I only speak in favour of it in general terms.

Travis · 20th February 2013, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

I have a perception that it was you. Simple at that and it doesn't need to be any more complicated. If you feel you want to proclaim your innocence then just do it. It's no more than would be expected from you by the police. And then, if you had inferred it wasn't you because you knew who it was then they would be asking you to name the guilty party.

Get on with it Travis, the onus is on you and I couldn't care less. The rubber meets the road Travis and it does with the racism question too!

What racism question?

And are you saying you want evidence of posts I didn't make? How does that work?

tyr_13 · 20th February 2013, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Travis

What racism question?

And are you saying you want evidence of posts I didn't make? How does that work?

You Americans all look alike.

Ladewig · 20th February 2013, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Travis

What racism question?

And are you saying you want evidence of posts I didn't make? How does that work?

If I may bring the subject back to the OP.

Joe Arpaio has no idea what he is talking about. From what I've seen of Joe Arpaio, he is unable to even correctly describe how the law works. The other problem with Joe Arpaio is that he cannot be convinced that he is wrong.

Of course, I might be completely wrong about Joe Arpaio. Perhaps Joe Arpaio is not a opinionated, closed-minded fool. If anyone has any evidence that Joe Arpaio is not that incompetent, I am willing to examine it.

Travis · 20th February 2013, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

You Americans all look alike.

Technically he's mistaking me for someone that uses David Mitchell as his avatar.

monty1 · 21st February 2013, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

You Americans all look alike.

No they don't. Travis looks like he's of Russian descent. I'm assuming that's him in the avatar. Good looking lad! I just wish he would apply himself and come out with something longer than his oneliners.

carlitos · 21st February 2013, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

Technically he's mistaking me for someone that uses David Mitchell as his avatar.

Google didn't help me there.

monty1, these weird tangents aren't helping your argument. Just FYI.

Polaris · 21st February 2013, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Google didn't help me there.

monty1, these weird tangents aren't helping your argument. Just FYI.

I'm confused, I thought the weird tangents were his arguments.

MarkCorrigan · 21st February 2013, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Travis

Technically he's mistaking me for someone that uses David Mitchell as his avatar.

I believe that's my cue to point out once again that I'm not even American, that I agree with Monty on a handful of issues, and that I find the High Priest of Poe to be alternately sad and amusing.

MarkCorrigan · 21st February 2013, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Polaris

I'm confused, I thought the weird tangents were his arguments.

They are until you point out how fatuous they are. Then he berates you for going off topic and threatens to report you.

17th February 2013, 10:35 AM	#121
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Arpaio's doing what he said he would do and only one kid has been shot so far by one of his deputies. http://www.salon.com/2013/02/17/sher...des_guadalupe/ Now the question is, how many school shootings has he prevented?
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

17th February 2013, 11:10 AM	#123
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Originally Posted by Nazz For everyone who doesn't want to waste their time figuring out which thread is "the other thread" : I can' help but notice that you didn't actually "soundly refute" their point as much as you just asserted that it was wrong. I did refute their point but I can go even a bit further. Our children are our future and how we care for them is an indication of our worth in society. The shooting of 20 children has brought the gun issue to the forefront for a very good reason. No doubt that the very large majority in your country now think something has to be done about your gun problem. If it was 20 black people who were shot by other blacks or whites on the street then it would have been glossed over and forgotten long ago. That's why it's of critical importance to decent people and why I say that if it's not important to some people then they are more concerned with their crazy 2nd. amendment or crazed with pure negativism when they express their priorities. Hate? Bigotry? What if not support for that crazy amendment? [q1uote] Where, exactly, does Travis claim that he has a degree? What does that have to do with anything?[/quote] Travi's supposed degree has nothing to do with the topic and we should just leave that alone.
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

17th February 2013, 11:58 AM	#124
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,947	Arpaio and Seagal....typical gun owner mentality.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

17th February 2013, 12:09 PM	#126
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Originally Posted by Nazz I agree that protecting those who can't reasonably be expected to defend themselves is a moral good, but I fail to see why this should be limited to children. Why should unarmed adults who have no more ability to protect themselves from gun violence than a child deserve less care or consideration? But it isn't just 20 adults who have been shot balanced against 20 children who are victims of school shootings, as you pointed out in your thread on US gun deaths the number is in the thousands. If the number of adult victims with no reasonable means to defend themselves is larger than the number of child victims by several orders of magnitude, should that not be our first priority? I'm with the roughly 320 million americans that feel that the priority is the 20 children. That has become the issue and that issue is school shootings. That's fact! It's not what should be the issue, it's what is the issue and the 99% can't be wrong. If the people say that's the issue then you are wasting your time arguing about it. But let's move on now. What should be the issue, if that's where you want to go, is the second amendment insanity. The reason it is that is because the handgun problem can't be dealt with until that is changed. Or can it? Answer that please. So the number of handguns are statistically what the issue is. It's specifically why Canada and other sane nations don't have your problem. And so we go around in another circle, around and around in ever decreasing circles until we all disappear up our own .............. you get the picture.
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

17th February 2013, 05:40 PM	#128
triforcharity Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: The South! Posts: 12,117	Originally Posted by monty1 (see my post on the other thread that explains why school shooting are the high priority issue it is. It solidly refutes your notion that school shooting aren't a big threat.) (such a repugnanat and careless comment from one claiming a degree!) Well, considering there are, in the US about 250,000 schools (including colleges, but not private colleges) school shootings ARE rare. BTW, the hilited is irrelevant, and possibly against the MA.
	__________________ "The horse has been led to the water, the horse is in fact standing up to its knees in the water, but the horse is telling you in a loud voice that there's no water to be had....he's still so very thirsty!" ~alienentity Last edited by triforcharity; 17th February 2013 at 05:46 PM.

17th February 2013, 11:01 AM	#122
Nazz New Blood Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 12	Originally Posted by monty1 see my post on the other thread that explains why school shooting are the high priority issue it is. It solidly refutes your notion that school shooting aren't a big threat. For everyone who doesn't want to waste their time figuring out which thread is "the other thread" : Originally Posted by monty1 You're not understanding that school shooting involve the death of children and so for that reason you are minimizing the importance. That's wrong! The whole issue is being belaboured now just 'because' it was children and it should be. It's your highest priority 'because' it was children. Are you americans getting this? The gungoons shooting each other and shooting innocent bystanders and shooting home owners, etc., etc., etc., is no big deal and can't be fixed anyway withoug banning all handguns off the streets and limiting them to shooting ranges with a permit to get it there and back. But that's not the issue. And can't be fixed anyway because your 2nd. amendment trumps it. School shootings are the issue and they aren't a minimal issue as so many Americans are trying to say. All they are doing is screeching about their 'secund mundmun rits' in reality and putting that over the value of their children's lives. Now are you americans getting it? I can' help but notice that you didn't actually "soundly refute" their point as much as you just asserted that it was wrong. Quote: (such a repugnanat and careless comment from one claiming a degree!) Where, exactly, does Travis claim that he has a degree? What does that have to do with anything?

17th February 2013, 12:01 PM	#125
Nazz New Blood Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 12	Originally Posted by monty1 Our children are our future and how we care for them is an indication of our worth in society. I agree that protecting those who can't reasonably be expected to defend themselves is a moral good, but I fail to see why this should be limited to children. Why should unarmed adults who have no more ability to protect themselves from gun violence than a child deserve less care or consideration? Originally Posted by monty1 If it was 20 black people who were shot by other blacks or whites on the street then it would have been glossed over and forgotten long ago. But it isn't just 20 adults who have been shot balanced against 20 children who are victims of school shootings, as you pointed out in your thread on US gun deaths the number is in the thousands. If the number of adult victims with no reasonable means to defend themselves is larger than the number of child victims by several orders of magnitude, should that not be our first priority?

17th February 2013, 12:20 PM	#127
Nazz New Blood Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 12	Originally Posted by monty1 I'm with the roughly 320 million americans that feel that the priority is the 20 children. That has become the issue and that issue is school shootings. That's fact! It's not what should be the issue, it's what is the issue and the 99% can't be wrong. If the people say that's the issue then you are wasting your time arguing about it. But let's move on now. What should be the issue, if that's where you want to go, is the second amendment insanity. The reason it is that is because the handgun problem can't be dealt with until that is changed. Or can it? Answer that please. So the number of handguns are statistically what the issue is. It's specifically why Canada and other sane nations don't have your problem. And so we go around in another circle, around and around in ever decreasing circles until we all disappear up our own .............. you get the picture. I didn't mean to start the same discussion of that thread in a second thread, just to provide context to your reference of it. We should probably keep it in the original thread to avoid having the same argument in two threads.

17th February 2013, 05:44 PM	#129
triforcharity Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: The South! Posts: 12,117	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Arpaio and Seagal....typical gun owner mentality. Hahahahahaha...... Prove it! You can't, and won't.
	__________________ "The horse has been led to the water, the horse is in fact standing up to its knees in the water, but the horse is telling you in a loud voice that there's no water to be had....he's still so very thirsty!" ~alienentity

17th February 2013, 06:16 PM	#130
Minoosh Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,490	Originally Posted by monty1 Travi's supposed degree has nothing to do with the topic and we should just leave that alone. But ... aren't you the one who brought it up? Uh, on the other hand ... never mind.
Minoosh Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,490

17th February 2013, 10:07 PM	#131
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,937	Originally Posted by triforcharity BTW, the hilited is irrelevant, and possibly against the MA. Originally Posted by Minoosh But ... aren't you the one who brought it up? Uh, on the other hand ... never mind. I honestly don't know what he is talking about. I've never brought up a degree in any of my discussions. I think he might be confusing me with someone else. I'm pretty sure I know who but I won't name them as I find this all rather amusing.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

18th February 2013, 01:04 AM	#132
Eddie Dane Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,416	Wouldn't it have made more sense to have convicted school shooters guard the schools from paedophiles, instead of the other way around? Just thinking out of the box here.

18th February 2013, 01:18 AM	#133
Eddie Dane Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,416	Originally Posted by Bikewer Way back when Seagal first hit the scene, his "people" released the information that he had trained in Aikido directly under founder Morihei Ueshiba. The Aikido foundation issued a terse reply..."No he didn't." I think that back in eighties, you could get away with this kind of PR. Movie magazines will just repeat the press release, serious papers don't do in-depth articles about action stars. The only ones interested in this would be martial arts press, and that is a very small niche. Now, you put out a press release like that, the first comment under the article will link to bullshido.com debunking all the BS. Seagal (or his management) apparently put out a lot BS information back then. And teenagers ate it up. -He was an enforcer for the mob He did jobs and favours for the CIA -He was on the Shah's bodyguard team -He trained under Uesheba (sp) -He's an expert in antique swords, doing taxations at auctions and museums. -He's Italian (Jewish-Irish actually) But keep in mind: He was very highly paid actor in the eighties. He had the enormous luck that the public believed he was some kind of badass, and he lucked into his first film (Above the Law) being a pretty good gritty action thriller. He starred opposite Tommy Lee Jones in a big-budget acktion flick. So that stream of lies paid off big, for a while.

18th February 2013, 09:35 AM	#134
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,788	Originally Posted by Eddie Dane He did jobs and favours for the CIA As whoppers go, this one is always a winner. If you are asked for details, you can claim that it is too classified to reveal. Plus the CIA is forbidden from answering questions about who has and hasn't worked for the Agency.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

18th February 2013, 10:39 AM	#135
Prometheus Acolyte of Víðarr Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North of Reality Posts: 42,972	Was he ever a Navy SEAL? I remember that going around a lot, but I haven't heard it recently.
	__________________ As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy." "I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor .......... Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.

18th February 2013, 02:36 PM	#136
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Originally Posted by Travis I honestly don't know what he is talking about. I've never brought up a degree in any of my discussions. I think he might be confusing me with someone else. I'm pretty sure I know who but I won't name them as I find this all rather amusing. It was you Travis and I'll remain convinced it was you until you name the person you think it was. I'm finding it amusing too! Of course, if proven wrong then you would deserve an apology for mistaken identity.
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

18th February 2013, 03:04 PM	#137
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,788	Originally Posted by Prometheus Was he ever a Navy SEAL? I remember that going around a lot, but I haven't heard it recently. Are you confusing Seagal with Jesse Ventura? While he was never actually in the SEALS, Ventura underwent SEAL training and served in the Underwater Demolition Teams (which later was folded into the SEALS). Sticklers say the distinction is very important.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

19th February 2013, 12:00 AM	#138
Prometheus Acolyte of Víðarr Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North of Reality Posts: 42,972	Originally Posted by Ladewig Are you confusing Seagal with Jesse Ventura? While he was never actually in the SEALS, Ventura underwent SEAL training and served in the Underwater Demolition Teams (which later was folded into the SEALS). Sticklers say the distinction is very important. No, I've never paid any attention to Ventura. At least one former associate of Seagal's has claimed he used to say he'd been a SEAL, though. So I guess that was another one of his delusions for a while.
	__________________ As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy." "I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor .......... Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.

19th February 2013, 01:11 AM	#139
Eddie Dane Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,416	Didn't this sheriff allow Seagal to drive some kind of armed personnel carrier though the wall of a house, during a raid? You know the police "protecting and serving" when they have some b-actor drive into your living room for a reality soap. Are Sheriffs still elected in some way? If so the citizens are getting the police they deserve.

19th February 2013, 08:39 AM	#140
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,878	Originally Posted by Eddie Dane Now, you put out a press release like that, the first comment under the article will link to bullshido.com debunking all the BS. If you can find it. I just browsed to bullshido.com for the first time in several years. It's funny; I seem to remember that it was once some sort of site whose primary purpose was to be skeptical of martial arts claims of awesome superpowered magical chi and so forth. But I can't tell now; it appears to have metamorphed into some typical martial arts fan site whose primary function seems to be movie reviews (of non-martial-arts movies), laughing at pictures of fat people, venerating Bruce Lee, and providing a place where blowhards can ineffectually challenge each other to fights and make fun of people who practice other flavors than them. Maybe I was just imagining the previous format of bullshido.com, or maybe I was looking at a different bullshido website, or maybe it was bought by somebody - I don't know; but I wouldn't link anybody to anything on that incoherent disaster of a website right now.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

20th February 2013, 06:44 AM	#141
Multivac Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,931	Originally Posted by Ladewig And even if it were the answer, letting Joe Arpaio decide who is qualified to carry a gun into a school is sure as hell not the answer. That's for damn sure!

20th February 2013, 06:47 AM	#142
Multivac Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,931	Originally Posted by monty1 You're right, it's crazy and an indication that society has failed. But it's probably the only short term solution for the problem. It's being implemented in many schools in the US already and had been even before this latest big slaughter. The gun control measures being talked about currently are all going to fall short of fixing the problem, supposing that the gungoon lobby and the right wing would ever let any of them pass into law. The solution lies in changing the American mindset but nobody wants to even suggest that. It's too politically dangerous to go there perhaps? I agree with the hilited, but have no idea how to achieve this.

20th February 2013, 07:11 AM	#143
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,652	Originally Posted by Multivac I agree with the hilited, but have no idea how to achieve this. The obvious answer is to constantly berate and vilify Americans and especially those who disagree with you and create conspiracies giving the US far more power and importance than even Eaglelander True Patriots^TM give it. Obviously wrong that is.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

20th February 2013, 08:11 AM	#144
Nessie Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: At the bottom of a dark Scottish loch. Posts: 4,748	Originally Posted by triforcharity Well, considering there are, in the US about 250,000 schools (including colleges, but not private colleges) school shootings ARE rare. BTW, the hilited is irrelevant, and possibly against the MA. I disagree, this list runs to hundreds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States So far in 2013 there have been eight with five dead and ten injured. It is way bigger than the lists from elsewhere in the world, Europe has recorded 20 in total, which the USA manages every couple of years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting What you pass off as rare would be horrifying anywhere else.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic Last edited by Nessie; 20th February 2013 at 08:12 AM.

20th February 2013, 10:36 AM	#145
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Originally Posted by Nessie I disagree, this list runs to hundreds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States So far in 2013 there have been eight with five dead and ten injured. It is way bigger than the lists from elsewhere in the world, Europe has recorded 20 in total, which the USA manages every couple of years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting What you pass off as rare would be horrifying anywhere else. They just don't think it's worth doing anything about Nessie. Changing the American mindset of violence is what is needed but that doesn't seem possible at this time. Forcing them to be responsible gun owners by forcing them to carry liability insurane would be a great start.
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

20th February 2013, 12:02 PM	#146
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,513	Originally Posted by monty1 Arpaio's doing what he said he would do and only one kid has been shot so far by one of his deputies. http://www.salon.com/2013/02/17/sher...des_guadalupe/ Now the question is, how many school shootings has he prevented? Sadly, disgustingly proves my point. Quote: In September, one of Arpaio’s deputies joined Tempe police in responding to an attempted burglary call – and shot and killed a teenage suspect. A deputy said he felt threatened and saw a knife; eyewitnesses in the neighborhood say he was putting his hands in the air to surrender when he was shot, and wonder why the deputy didn’t simply use a Taser. Like I said, makes those school kids so much less safe it's only a matter of time.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

20th February 2013, 12:15 PM	#147
Prometheus Acolyte of Víðarr Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North of Reality Posts: 42,972	Originally Posted by monty1 They just don't think it's worth doing anything about Nessie. Changing the American mindset of violence is what is needed but that doesn't seem possible at this time. Forcing them to be responsible gun owners by forcing them to carry liability insurane would be a great start. Of course that's exactly right. Why on Earth would we bother protecting our young from guns, when we're just gonna eat them once they're nicely fattened up anyway?
	__________________ As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy." "I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor .......... Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.

20th February 2013, 02:23 PM	#148
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,937	Originally Posted by monty1 It was you Travis and I'll remain convinced it was you until you name the person you think it was. I'm finding it amusing too! Of course, if proven wrong then you would deserve an apology for mistaken identity. Not big on innocent until proven guilty are you. And why should I help you? I find it all rather amusing.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

20th February 2013, 02:39 PM	#149
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Originally Posted by Travis Not big on innocent until proven guilty are you. And why should I help you? I find it all rather amusing. I have a perception that it was you. Simple at that and it doesn't need to be any more complicated. If you feel you want to proclaim your innocence then just do it. It's no more than would be expected from you by the police. And then, if you had inferred it wasn't you because you knew who it was then they would be asking you to name the guilty party. Get on with it Travis, the onus is on you and I couldn't care less. The rubber meets the road Travis and it does with the racism question too!
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

20th February 2013, 03:24 PM	#150
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,696	Originally Posted by monty1 Arpaio's doing what he said he would do and only one kid has been shot so far by one of his deputies. Is this the necessary thing about Arpaio's plan?
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

20th February 2013, 03:33 PM	#151
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Is this the necessary thing about Arpaio's plan? Arpaio is an evil freak Joe but in general I have to say that his kind of plan is the solution in the short term. The primary objective is to stop the slaughter of children. So I only speak in favour of it in general terms.
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

20th February 2013, 06:16 PM	#152
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,937	Originally Posted by monty1 I have a perception that it was you. Simple at that and it doesn't need to be any more complicated. If you feel you want to proclaim your innocence then just do it. It's no more than would be expected from you by the police. And then, if you had inferred it wasn't you because you knew who it was then they would be asking you to name the guilty party. Get on with it Travis, the onus is on you and I couldn't care less. The rubber meets the road Travis and it does with the racism question too! What racism question? And are you saying you want evidence of posts I didn't make? How does that work?
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

20th February 2013, 06:33 PM	#153
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,652	Originally Posted by Travis What racism question? And are you saying you want evidence of posts I didn't make? How does that work? You Americans all look alike.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

20th February 2013, 06:51 PM	#154
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,788	Originally Posted by Travis What racism question? And are you saying you want evidence of posts I didn't make? How does that work? If I may bring the subject back to the OP. Joe Arpaio has no idea what he is talking about. From what I've seen of Joe Arpaio, he is unable to even correctly describe how the law works. The other problem with Joe Arpaio is that he cannot be convinced that he is wrong. Of course, I might be completely wrong about Joe Arpaio. Perhaps Joe Arpaio is not a opinionated, closed-minded fool. If anyone has any evidence that Joe Arpaio is not that incompetent, I am willing to examine it.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board. Last edited by Ladewig; 20th February 2013 at 08:24 PM.

20th February 2013, 10:05 PM	#155
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,937	Originally Posted by tyr_13 You Americans all look alike. Technically he's mistaking me for someone that uses David Mitchell as his avatar.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy